Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So I'm an outsider just looking for matchup information and I stumbled on you MU table. I have two questions.

Why do you think Rosalina hard-counters so many characters, and for the characters you have at a ratio of 65:35 or higher, did you actually get the opinion of any users from that character's boards? As I said, I came here for information but I have a hard time believing some of these.

I mean, come on, you have Ness over 65:35. Really?

It would help if you refer to the primary post. 65:35 is simply around the moderate advantage level, so it's not like Rosalina would completely dominate the match-up. You'd have to go at least 80:20 or better before you can clearly see a one-sided match in most cases.

However, I will be altering the scoring system for the round 2 match-up discussions, which are scheduled to begin next month.

 

[MezzoMe]

So I'm an outsider just looking for matchup information and I stumbled on you MU table. I have two questions.

Why do you think Rosalina hard-counters so many characters, and for the characters you have at a ratio of 65:35 or higher, did you actually get the opinion of any users from that character's boards? As I said, I came here for information but I have a hard time believing some of these.

I mean, come on, you have Ness over 65:35. Really?

Shouldn't this go to the Q&A thread?
Anyway, simply put, it's all based one one's options against the other, if they counter some options but are countered by other options then Rosalina has a 50:50 chance of coming out winner from that situation, if she has an option that can't be punished then it's considered a safe option and the situation is advantageous for her, vice versa it's disadvantageous, finally, if one or more options, no matter if they need to be timely/precise or not, as long as they always beat every option, then the situation is broken.
To make things simpler I prefer to divide the scenario in five istances: edgeguarding, edgeguarded, juggling, juggled and neutral.

For istance, a Ganondorf being juggled or edgeguarded by Rosalina is in the first case a heavily disadvantaged case for Ganon since nothing beats her Uair and her air speed is faster than his, with only his airdodge based on hard reads being effective. The second case is broken as Rosalina walls him out with Bair and Dair no matter what and is uneffected by delays in using the recovery move since she is floatier than him, and she could still send Luma out and throw random smash attacks(since the only hitboxes on his recovery is the final part of Dark Dive.

Rosalina usually has strong edgeguarding and juggling abilities, but mostly important she has a strong neutral game, with a moveset full of safe moves that nearly every character has to respect whenever they are spaced correctly, and the neutral game is often the most important part of a match-up since it's the very first stance in a match and is the one that delivers to other stances and from where other stances return to most of the time. Having bullcrap neutral game, a customless Ganon has a match-up 30:70, and I actually think it's 0:100(in Rosalina's favor of course).

With this criteria in mind it comes by itself that in order to have an advantage against Rosalina you must have an advantage in neutral, in order to exploit her weakness to being juggled and edgeguarded.

For the second question, any moderator goes to the match-up thread of the character they are analyzing to advice them of it, asking for support so they actually do.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It should also be noted that match-up discussions that took place before the 1.0.6 update may be outdated now. What might've been true back then might not be the case now.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't mean to double post, but I do have some family business to tend to this weekend, and it will interfere with me being able to keep this thread updated until later tomorrow. Because of this, I'll be revealing the unofficial overall average for the Rosalina vs. Jigglypuff match-up right now.

[57:43 - 59:41]

It seems that the match-up favors Rosalina at the moment. Again, this average is "unofficial", as Jigglypuff's discussion period is still in progress. I'll be sure to reveal the final overall average when I'm back from my family buisiness.

Shulk's discussion period will begin tomorrow, so hold off on the Rosalina vs. Shulk match-up discussions until then.

 

[Douchuumen]

It would help if you refer to the primary post. 65:35 is simply around the moderate advantage level, so it's not like Rosalina would completely dominate the match-up. You'd have to go at least 80:20 or better before you can clearly see a one-sided match in most cases.

However, I will be altering the scoring system for the round 2 match-up discussions, which are scheduled to begin next month.

I actually did read the first post (not sure why your tone seems so hostile when I'm just asking a question, but whatever). You may have set different rules, but to my knowledge a 65:35 matchup typically refers to a hard counter, i.e. a matchup they dominate; that's what's tripping me up and that's why I asked. Pretty sure that's how other boards work, too.

 

[MezzoMe]

And that is why cardinal numbers instead of adjectives are used in match-up ratios.
Granted, saying something like "80:20" is throwing something subjectively just as saying "heavily advantageous", but the receiving end gets a concrete idea that over 100 matches 80 will be won, granted complete match-up knowledge and equal level.

 

[Codaption]

0:100 for Rosie vs. Ganon seems kind of ridiculous. I don't think any character in any game has had a matchup that terrible, and Ganon isn't too bad this time around either. He's not FANTASTIC....but certainly not bad.

The Jiggs ratio seems a bit extreme, but I wouldn't be too surprised. We don't have a lot of superb matchups, really.

 

[Berserker.]

Having bullcrap neutral game, a customless Ganon has a match-up 30:70, and I actually think it's 0:100(in Rosalina's favor of course).

Alright, this is borderline ridiculous.

100:0 would imply that Ganondorf has a 0% chance of winning against Rosalina which is wrong. 80:20's and hell even 70:30's are even a rarity in this game. Don't throw out number like these often

If this is the type of explanations and numbers I will get when I visit here for the Shulk discussion tomorrow, I am not looking forward to it at all.

 

[Ritronaut]

I'm finding a pattern here. Us Rosalina mains say the matchup is in our favor, and it seems a lot of us agree the matchup is mostly on our favor. THEN, the mains of the other character come and say "no no no! this is not in your favor it is either even or very very little in your favor!" and almost every single time their justification towards this is that they "kill luma efficiently and easily". They misjudge that our role as Rosalina is to protect Lume as well as possible, and make it so you don't "kill luma efficiently and easily". Usually these outliers change the ratio by a bit. However, it is not too notorious, just something that has been bugging me a bit about these MU discussions.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm finding a pattern here. Us Rosalina mains say the matchup is in our favor, and it seems a lot of us agree the matchup is mostly on our favor. THEN, the mains of the other character come and say "no no no! this is not in your favor it is either even or very very little in your favor!" and almost every single time their justification towards this is that they "kill luma efficiently and easily". They misjudge that our role as Rosalina is to protect Lume as well as possible, and make it so you don't "kill luma efficiently and easily". Usually these outliers change the ratio by a bit. However, it is not too notorious, just something that has been bugging me a bit about these MU discussions.

That has always been a thing with MU discussions ever since the beginning

 

[kenniky]

I'm finding a pattern here. Us Rosalina mains say the matchup is in our favor, and it seems a lot of us agree the matchup is mostly on our favor. THEN, the mains of the other character come and say "no no no! this is not in your favor it is either even or very very little in your favor!" and almost every single time their justification towards this is that they "kill luma efficiently and easily". They misjudge that our role as Rosalina is to protect Lume as well as possible, and make it so you don't "kill luma efficiently and easily". Usually these outliers change the ratio by a bit. However, it is not too notorious, just something that has been bugging me a bit about these MU discussions.

I find that a lot of people tend to overestimate their character in relation to others. It's partially because you know a lot of the technicalities with your character, and, probably not having mained the other character, don't know all the ins and outs of that character and the tools at their disposal. This results in counters to strategies that you guys may not have known about because they have some sort of niche use that's never been fully exposed or something.

Also people like making their character look good because it makes them look good.

With that being said, however, 0:100 is ridiculous and should never, ever, EVER be a matchup ratio in any sort of slightly balanced fighting game.

 

[Ritronaut]

That has always been a thing with MU discussions ever since the beginning

My point is that mains of the other character tend to overestimate their character in the matchup and underestimate Rosalina in the match up as well. On paper sure it look like you can kill luma effortlessly, however, that is not really how a matchup goes. A good Rosalina will know how to keep luma safe and alive.

Also, to clarify, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GANON MATCHUP. I agree that 0:100 is absolutely ridiculous and stupid. I am more talking about other matchup discussions where people of the opposite character come in and say it isn't too much in Rosalina's favor because of how they look at it on paper.

 

[Macchiato]

Having bullcrap neutral game, a customless Ganon has a match-up 30:70, and I actually think it's 0:100(in Rosalina's favor of course).

This is the most ****ing ridiculous thing I've read. There are barely even any 70-30 in Sm4sh and those are extreme match ups. 0-100 is unwinnable at all which is not the case what so ever. Brawl didn't even have any 0-100 being the least balanced game from the franchise and this game is the most balanced. If this is what it'll be the second time around for us Zelda's, I'll be so unimpressed and simply frustrated that people actually say that.

 

[kenniky]

My point is that mains of the other character tend to overestimate their character in the matchup and underestimate Rosalina in the match up as well. On paper sure it look like you can kill luma effortlessly, however, that is not really how a matchup goes. A good Rosalina will know how to keep luma safe and alive.

I would like to point out that if you guys overestimate the matchup in Rosalina's favor, and the others overestimate the matchup in their favor, they should theoretically cancel out and result in an accurate matchup score.

So it's not all bad. Having both sides give their opinions also lets you know what their theoretical strategy is so that you know what to watch out for.

 

[evmaxy54]

This is the most ****ing ridiculous thing I've read. There are barely even any 70-30 in Sm4sh and those are extreme match ups. 0-100 is unwinnable at all which is not the case what so ever. Brawl didn't even have any 0-100 being the least balanced game from the franchise and this game is the most balanced. If this is what it'll be the second time around for us Zelda's, I'll be so unimpressed and simply frustrated that people actually say that.

I would argue that the Ganon vs Falco MU in Brawl is the closest to a 0-100 MU as it got in the game & I'm p sure NTSC Sheik vs Bowser is 100-0 to Sheik in Melee. In Sm4sh the MM/D3 is hilariously bad for D3

/devil'sadvocate

That being said, lol Rosalinda going 100:0 against Ganon

 

[Parcheesy]

Can we stop with the 100-0 thing already? Frankly, unless you have some zero to death grab release shenanigans Brawl style, you don't have a 100-0 matchup; there's no opinion involved.

...Anyway, on topic, this is usually the time Mario and Sonic Guy would announce the end of the matchup period, so in his absence:


Jigglypuff's discussion period has come to a close. I've spent the last few minutes very carefully copy-pasting the above post and got a rough average.

[57:43 - 59:41]

It seems Rosalina pulls ahead slightly in this matchup thanks to her longer range, and safe juggling.

Feel free to begin discussion pertaining to her matchup against the Luma cleaver himself, Shulk.

 

[mario123007]

On man... my favorite MU...
Shulk

• Monado arts can change his stats, which can also do the MALLC.
• Every attacks and Smashes have a good range.
• Slow movements and attacks as well.
• 翔 monado good for air game.
• 疾 monado good for zoning, also increases horizontal movement.
• 盾 monado good for preventing launched
• 斬 is a useful monado to give opponent a lot of damage when doing combos.
• 擊 monado is good for punishing, but is a risky monado too.

Rosalina & Luma

• Once Rosalina juggles Shulk, it's hard for him to react, but the range can still help.
• Floaty and light, can get KOed under 90% by a dash attack + 擊 monado.
• attacks comes out quicker than Shulk.

With Shulk's monado, this MU is really tough to tell who has advantage...
I give 60:40 for now.

 

[Berserker.]

Reposting from an old discussion. Added a few things

Score: +0 (Even)


I'm going to discuss this by sections. First, I'll tackle the Luma, then what to avoid, then Solo Rosalina

Luma

What Shulk wants to do at neutral is to take luma out of play. Luckily, he has the tools to actually perform this task very well (He's one of the best at doing the job). His disjoint (being the longest in the game) allows him to safely swat luma from a distance. His arts also manipulate the way he deals with luma. Speed art allows him to move back and forth with his great air mobility while f-airing, or n-airing the Luma. This is a much safer method of dealing with luma since you have the ability to easily retreat. Buster art allows him to quickly take out Luma thanks to its massive damage output. Additionally, buster also allows his attacks to be safe on shield so don't fear if you manage to hit luma while whacking on a shielded Rosalina (Unless she powershielded it). Smash art sort of cuts the slack of having to take down the health of luma since it increases knockback growth. Take note that Smash art will only deal significant knockback once luma's HP has been decreased by a certain amount

Regardless of which art Shulk is using, you'll be using f-air or n-air against Luma. N-air has shorter range that f-air but tipping it will deal more damage. F-air has slightly longer range and it comes out faster at Shulk's front. N-air is safer than f-air due to its low landing lag (12 frames) but f-air is more likely to hit both Rosalina and Luma. With speed, you can perform a retreating f-air and n-air to make them safe on shield. With buster, you need to FF F-air to make it safe. As for n-air, you either tip with it or FF the base hit to make it safe. Smash art is basically unsafe on shield no matter what you do but the main purpose of Smash art is to knock Luma off stage. At least you won't take more damage if you get hit (but you're easier to KO). You can go for b-air but make sure you tip it on Luma instead of landing it on both Rosalina and Luma. Chances are that the Rosalina player will powershield it easily since it has 18 frames of start up. Take note that only the FRONTAL hitbox appears at frame 18 so that back hitbox comes out much later. Using b-air is fine when Rosalina actually does something. If you see her use star bits, jab, f-tilt, or basically anything, you can use b-air's long range to punish both Rosalina and Luma simultaneously from a distance

What to avoid

What you want to AVOID like a plague is getting juggled by Rosalina. Shulk can't deal with juggling very well unless the said Shulk player has already gotten the timing of MALLC down and can FF Air dodge and cancel the landing lag via Monado art activation BUT let's disregard MALLC for now since it has yet to have a lot of exposure outside of Japan (9B). The best way to avoid getting into situations like this often are to maintain your space between Rosalina, Luma and yourself AND to never stay above Rosalina. So why shouldn't Shulk stay above Rosalina? First off, u-smash. Self-explanatory. Has invincibility and hits like a truck. One wrong move while you're above Rosalina, you're either dead or you're at a disadvantaged state since you're likely to still be above Rosalina which allows her to juggle Shulk with that other move that no one likes. Ever. Rosalina's u-air. You can't contest it with any of Shulk's attacks. Countering it won't work almost ALL the time. Also, it KO's at low percentages if you're near the vertical blast zone so take note of that

Solo Rosalina

Aaaah... Alright, there are a lot of things to take note of. First, Rosalina loses a lot of her options and she effectively loses 2 specials once Luma is out of the picture. She's forced to play defensively. Although her defense is still pretty good, it's not as outstanding as it was with luma helping her. At this point, Rosalinas are going to be playing REALLY defensively at this situation. How do you respond? With careful aggressive play. Any art except shield will work well once you KO'd Luma but if there's any art that Rosalina would dislike, it's speed art. That dash speed and aerial mobility becomes an amazing asset in bypassing Rosalina's zone. You can also opt for buster but approaching Rosalina will also prove to be not difficult but tricky. The thing with buster is that at neutral, you're always at mid-range. If you actually want to dish out a lot of damage, you'll need to get up close. The best way to transition into close range is to close in with FF N-air. Once you've landed that, go nuts. N-air to f-tilt deals 28% damage. N-air to grab allows for set ups into f-air or n-air or b-air for a lot of damage. Smash? Well, use it to kill. Boom. Not much to say about it. Jump art is basically like speed except you're at mid-air most of the time but you're going to have to mix up your options with jump art (Tomahawk then grab, empty hops, etc). Rosalina can handle aerial approaches very well thanks to her amazing up-game.

What I'm about to say also applies with luma in play btw but prepare to shield a lot because Rosalina's hitboxes last long. This is why I said careful aggressive play. Solo Rosalina's defense is still solid but you can definitely bypass it if you respect her hitboxes more. At speed art (no, actually at any form or art you're using but it's much better at speed so...), remember that you can dash to shield. This allows you to be more campy or bait-oriented with Shulk since it helps in halting your "approach."

It all comes down to being smart at approaching. She still has some attacks that demand respect but regardless, you can definitely and easily tip the match to your favor with luma out of the picture since Shulk definitely has the tools to rush down Solo Rosalina. It also helps that Shulk has a fairly easy time handling Luma. "Once Rosalina loses luma, make her feel that she's at a disadvantage"

What combos work on Rosalina and at what percentage?

N-air > F-tilt (42-75%)
N-air > F-tilt 0% - 30%
N-air > F-air > F-air/Air slash (50%- 65%)
D-throw > Dash > F-air (10-50%)

N-air > F-air > F-air is capable of killing if the final f-air is done near the horizontal stage boundary. Shulk is still fully capable of recovering back even after that because jump art is amazing for his recovery in general. There are probably some other things I forgot to mention though.

Rosalina's off-stage! What now?

Rosalina's recovery doesn't have a hitbox so you can actually go ahead and swat her with f-air or b-air. You can also go for d-air but the timing is too strict. You can either go off-stage and edgeguard her with jump or smash art OR use air slash or a downward angled f-smash against Rosa's one frame ledge snap vulnerability. Any of the two work but getting f-smash requires you to use it quite early. Air slash is a lot faster since it comes out at frame 10 (f-smash comes out at frame 14) so you'll have an easier time with air slash

NUTS, you're off-stage! What now?

This is where it may get rough. Shulk's recovery is gimpable. Like, it screams "GIMP ME." Rosalina can easily gimp his recovery. Recovering may be iffy against Rosalina because her recovery is also good enough to make her have no fear going deep off-stage. You can challenge her aerial hitboxes with air slash if you space correctly. You'll ALWAYS want jump art ready to allow yourself to have a significantly easier time recovering. If jump isn't off cooldown yet, you're better off using speed art since it increases your aerial mobility and the drifting distance of air slash's second hit.

Whelp, you're getting juggled or you're at a disadvantage. What now?

This is where shield and jump become more important. Particularly, not a lot of smashers know the secret behind shield art. Thanks to the increased defense which allows Shulk to take ~33% less damage, and thanks to his increased weight, the hitsun he receives from any of Rosalina's attacks at mid to 0% is really small. This actually allows you to escape juggles since you can act out quickly off from hitsun.

You can also switch to jump to get out of juggles because jump height+air mobility. Only problem is that if you don't act out quickly, you'll get juggled even more because jump increases your falling speed so be quick on your toes

As a Rosalina main, what do I do?

Bait and punish Shulk. Playing defensively and taking care of the luma will bring you really far despite how iffy or tough the match up may look. Shulk's attacks have notable end lag so capitalize on that. Also, make sure you juggle Shulk because he's juggle bait until he activates jump art. His aerials cover a huge amount of area so try not to directly challenge his aerials. Shield grabbing is a thing and so is dash to shield. Good Shulks though may find their way around that by either switching to buster or using speed or jump (retreating aerials are safe). You obviously outspeed Shulk in terms of attack speed so once you're up-close against Shulk, your moves can beat him to the punch. Of course, there are pre-cautions with staying up close against Shulk. Don't let him start landing combos and strings on you because it all begins once Shulk moves from mid to close range at the right time.


~~~~

TLDR : Step up your shield game, play at mid-range against both Rosaluma, and SoRo. Take advantage of your disjoint, handle the luma first, then take care of Rosalina. Approach smartly and bait Rosalina. Also, remember you have them arts to back you up at certain situations.

Easier said than done, as always.

On a final note, I'll just leave this here: The main meat of MU threads are the discussions

 

[MezzoMe]

Before starting I want to put one thing straight:
I myself was very doubtful that the Ganon:Rosalina match-up would be that polarized but every scenario that I thought of always ended up with Ganon being heavily pressured, losing space or straightly hit, only to be brought to death, that is not something that I took lightly, in fact that is a ratio that I gave only in this thread wich analized this after the Ganondorf thread, part of this is due to the fact that hard reads are out of my thoughts when analizing a match-up, wich is basically the only way for Ganondorf to take Luma out of the picture without being punished and juggled/edgeguarded, wich in turn is the only way to not have to respect the world and half from her.

On man... my favorite MU...
Shulk

• Monado arts can change his stats, which can also do the MALLC.
• Every attacks and Smashes have a good range.
• Slow movements and attacks as well.
• 翔 monado good for air game.
• 疾 monado good for zoning.
• 盾 monado good for preventing launched
• 斬 is a useful monado to give opponent a lot of damage when doing combos.
• 擊 monado is good for punishing, but is a risky monado too.

Rosalina & Luma

• Once Rosalina juggles Shulk, it's hard for him to react, but the range can still help.
• Floaty and light, can get KOed under 90% by a dash attack + 擊 monado.
• attacks comes out quicker than Shulk.

With Shulk's monado, this MU is really tough to tell who has advantage...
I give 60:40 for now.

I would suggest coloring the kanji words in order to make them easier to recognize

Now focusing on the match-up itself, I will start from polarized situations since they were easier for me to analize and will keep from analyzing neutral because I am certain to not have fully understood it, aside from the fact that Rosalina's goal is to be in range to make him respect our attacks, wich he must because his own attacks are too slow compared, but firstly, note that when i talk about reaction times, I take 12 frames as the time to react to something expected

Juggling
This is pretty straightforward, vanilla Shulk has higher air speed than Rosalina so it is needed to fastfall and dash out of Uairs. Shulk has hard time challenging juggles, would reccommend to not be in range of his Dair but any of his aerials come after frame 12, wich means that they can be dodged or reacted to with Luma's Nair and Bair (with his Nair being an exception because 13-12=1<2 of course) and are slower that either Rosalina's or Luma's Uair(actually any aerial barring Rosalina's Dair and Fair are faster than Shulk's aerials, but the first hitbox of Nair doesn't really matter as well), Air Slash is not dodgeable on reaction but is still slower than the afermentioned aerials and is far too risky, especially considering that it doesn't counter every aerial.
One thing about Vision:
It might hit against Bair and Fair but most of the time Shulk would just miss and worsen the frame data of his Vision.
Jump Shulk is easily his best response to being juggled and in fact he can hardly ever be juggled, also stage control is most likely to change, for Shulk it's easier to just go backward and lose stage control to go back in neutral but he might as well jump over your head and reverse it, being able to wall him out is something that doesn't universally come, especially if he air dodges while flying. Shulk's weight loss is no factor to ignore, remember that hitstun is proportional to knockback so it doesn't just make it easier to escape when the hit is not fatal, especially since the increase in falling speed. Nevertheless, the situation is far more menagable with the Jump art.
Speed art makes him jump lower, wich I'm pretty sure it's not what he wants in this situation though it increases his aerial speed.
Sheild allows him to take more hits for the same damage at higher percentages, wich lets the Stale Move Negation list to fill with Uairs, but it's that risky, considering the lower air speed.
At lower percentage he might have an easier time escaping given the right conditions with the decreased hitstun but the decreased mobility keeps me from believing it that surely.
Buster lets him die earlier.
Priority doesn't matter either, especially with Rosalina's Uair that his trascendent, dunno about USmash but even then they renain too slow.
Smash lets him die earlier and be trapped more easily.
The situation is heavily in Rosalina's favor for vanilla, buster, speed and smash shulk, the advantage is heavily varying with shield Shulk and as long as Jump Shulk has space can return to neutral with ease, or even flip stage control.
Juggled
This is not-that-straightforward.
Shulk cannot challenge Luma's Dair because it's faster than his attacks barring jab and DTilt, wich aren't that easy to hit Luma with, let alone Rosalina, especially when retreating.
So Shulk needs instead to attack frontally, with a spaced Fair. Bair might be used as well, but only close to the ground and when she hasn't a second jump since it's too slow and would otherwise be dodged on reaction, though Luma eventually gets hit, or Nair on reaction, altering her hitbox. and dodging the hit.
Nair might hit as well from below but I'm not sure about it.
Jump Shulk is of course the best choice of him, and easily lets him deal with her, simple as that.
Speed Shulk is the same , but that is unlikely as useful as Jump because of the reduced damage.
Shield is good for making people believe that Shield art is just as useful as a toilet in a kitchen.
Buster makes her take damage faster.
Smash makes her die earlier.
The situation has quite a good advantage for Shulk, an advantage that can be made safer with Jump and Speed, but speed will slow things down, the advantage is intensified by buster and smash, shield reduces the advantage.
Edgeguarding
This is pretty easy, Shulk has one and only one recovery move, wich is air slash, wich is not slow enough to be hit on reaction but is easily dealt with from above, you can as well ledge pressure with jab cancelling because of his slow aerials, wich will make him hit if he doesn't take distances from the attack, but doing that will make him without ledge invincibility, worsening the situation, Vision as well often ends up hitting only Luma, while jumping over the ledge results in a juggling situation.
But anyway it's best just to straightly attack him.
Jump Shulk is once again the best choice, wich will let him make hard to predict where she should actually Up B, but DON'T jump back on the stage. No because some people jump back on the stage right after they get thrown away from it, that only makes an attack come in your face, an attack that you can't outspace because yourself are going against it. Anyway with this monando art ledge pressure is preferred to direct edgeguarding
Speed Shulk increases air speed but hampers jump height, so it should be useful when only horizontal recovery is needed.
Shield is useful if you can do it back on stage without too much, but Rosalina is too floaty and eventually you are just going to fill her stale move negation queue.
Buster lets him die quicker since knockback is based on the damage after the hit so taking more damage equals at taking more knockback.
Smash is as useful as a recovery move that makes you go 90º downward.
Rosalina has quite a bit of advantage here, an advantage increased by Buster and Smash, decreased by Jump and sometimes by Speed and Shield.
Edgeguarded
Rosalina's hitboxless recovery is back, and even this time it'll give no easy time for her, he can wall Rosalina's recovery with his Fairs, wall us out to the ledge and deliver to a juggling situation from there if Rosalina jumps over the ledge, though in this last case he would need to respace himself because of Dair. The best way to recover is low because of the short hotizontal range of his Dair.
Jump Shulk lets him chase after her and wall her out from farther, though you shouldn't need it more than that much because herself is coming after him.
Same goes for Speed Shulk, but the reduced damage makes it less rewarding.
Shield art is as useful as glueing yourself to a tree
Buster is no different from when he is edgeguarded, of course his utility is reversed.
Smash is the same story.
Shulk as well quite a bit of advantage here, increased by, Jump, Buster and Smash, halved by Shield and tweaked by Speed.

 

[kenniky]

Edgeguarding
This is pretty easy, Shulk has one and only one recovery move, wich is air slash

I mean, Back Slash Charge is sort of a recovery move... Definitely super punishable though if the opponent knows what to expect.

Quick question about the section about Shulk juggling Rosa. I was under the impression that juggling was just hitting the opponent and knocking them up into the air repeatedly? Shulk's utilt is very good for this as it comes out fairly quickly (for Shulk anyway) and has a lot of range. Fair and bair tend to knock the opponent sideways, which puts us into an edgeguarding position. Unless you meant something else by juggling? Not entirely sure.

 

[MezzoMe]

I mean, Back Slash Charge is sort of a recovery move... Definitely super punishable though if the opponent knows what to expect.

Quick question about the section about Shulk juggling Rosa. I was under the impression that juggling was just hitting the opponent and knocking them up into the air repeatedly? Shulk's utilt is very good for this as it comes out fairly quickly (for Shulk anyway) and has a lot of range. Fair and bair tend to knock the opponent sideways, which puts us into an edgeguarding position. Unless you meant something else by juggling? Not entirely sure.

I'm pretty sure that the opponent can react to it even without expecting it, but I ignored it, since I've never seen a Shulk using that as a recovery, a friend of mine tried once and self-destructed because of it either having no ledge sweetspot or having it despite his body being 2 centimeters from the ledge and failing to grab it.

Anyway, juggling is usually intended like that, but I prefer to intend more in general "when an opponent is thrown in mid-air in order to exploit his weakness to hit people that come below him" because that is the concept that makes the situation advantaged, as such I didn't feel like it needed a different section for it, also didn't Shulk's Fair and Bair have Sakurai angle?
About the UTilt, I completely forgot about it, but I wonder if spaced correctly in order to not be under Luma and at the same time hit the Duo, is he able to hit them before she comes outside of the hitbox? I have no doubt about outspacing it vertically and she hasn't the mid-air jump, but I don't know horizontally and vertically with double jump.

 

[Berserker.]

Shulk is NOT known for juggling. U-tilt is still a solid anti air though against Rosalina but I think its best use comes as a ledge trap. I almost forgot to mention one of Shulk's strongest aspects. His ledge trapping is top-notch. All his tilts, smashes, f-air, and n-air are fantastic moves for answering any ledge option Rosalina has. Go in smash art and u-tilt will kill Rosalina at low percentages. It's even hard to react to which is a huge plus. You can even mix it up with MADC (Monado art dash cancel) and do something like this:

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm back from my family business now, so I should be able to keep things up to date again.

@ Parcheesy : Thank you for keeping me up to date with the overall average for the Rosalina vs. Jigglypuff match-up. Looks like nothing changed after I made my last post.

 

[MezzoMe]

Shulk is not known for juggling, it's no secret, but it's rather Rosalina that is vulnerable to juggling whenever one is able to bypass Luma's Dair or their Nair, in fact things don't happen for a single reason.
Anyway, UTilt is that good for killing and juggling/hitting airborne stuff, it is one of Shulk's fastest attacks, with only his grabs, DTilt and Jab coming out faster(and interrupting faster), the only problem is that it has the lowest damage output out of his entire moveset(I refer to maximum damage, so I'm not counting individual hits of the Jab, the weak hits of DSmash and so on).
So I am going to edit the post I wrote above with this move but before I must know if I left behind something.

Speaking of the UTilt, you can use it to platform pressure her in neutral, wich is something important after taking out Luma since that's one of her main tools other than going offstage and spamming air dodge invisibility along with jump, depending on the character, however shieldstun is proportional to damage and unless Shulk's UTilt has high shield damage(and I cannot test myself right now, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't) it will take quite a bit of time to actually go down with pressure, especially since his other aerials are too slow and one after the other can be shielded on reaction, so Buster would be needed quite a bit here, though that in turn will make it so it is needed more time to actually kill her, of course.
From the look of it, Shulk wouldn't like platforms that can be approached only by under them.

I also was thinking that if Rosalina was left without mid-air jumps, might backslash be used on her?
Edit:Nope, even with her slow falling speed, Backslash is so slow that she can still fastfall and dodge the attack, and if it ever succeeds in hitting Luma Shulk is still going to get punished and thrown in one of his disadvantageous state, wich, as said, don't need Luma to be disadvantageous, barring recovery situation with Jump Shulk. Needless to say, if she can't hit the ground fast enough she would be able to end her air dodge before touching it, and even then I'm starting to ask myself if Backslash ending/landing/watheveranimationisthat lag is under 22 frames, and in that case, if he is able to actually punish her afterward since in order to not get attacked preempitively he should have quite a bit of distance from her, not to mention that his momentum, unlike Rosalina's, is set for the entire animation, and he needs slow attacks to hit far.

Also it should be noticed that all advantageous situation are prone to use Buster and Smash, while all the disadvantageous ones prefer Jump and to a lesser extent Shield and Speed, should then Decisive Monado Arts be preferred over the default one?

 

[mario123007]

I would suggest coloring the kanji words in order to make them easier to recognize


.

I type those Kanji (Or Hanzi in Chinese, cuz they are Chinese), on my tablet by using a special typing system called Zu Ying Fu Hao in Chinese. Very similar to English's alphabet. But to use it is quite complicated to explain...

Anyway, I will update it.

 

[Parcheesy]

Reviewed it already over on the Shulk forum. Here's the quick snippet of mostly relevant information.

Spoiler

First off, I don't think recovering low is Shulk's best bet at survival. There's nothing stopping Rosalina from dipping just as low ( even without a jump, she can dip into the lower blast zones and survive ), and the longer you spend offstage, the weaker attack it will take to score a gimp. I'd say if the Rosalina is going to chase offstage, and you have the time, try to recover quickly, using the massive hitbox of air slash to catch her before she can maneuver for the down air. It's important to note that Rosalina doesn't have great hitboxes to cover diagonally in front of, or behind her, so an air slash catching her from the side should be safer than coming up from directly below her and challenging the down air.

As for the Luma, I'm a firm believer that Shulk is the best in the game at dealing with it. The fact that he has access to a very safe nair that sends it in tumble, aided by two stances to either kill it quickly by percent or knockback just makes him a frustrating character to face. The Luma tends to 'clang' whenever it's hitboxes meets others ( even in the air ), so it tends to be incredibly unreliable against characters like Shulk that can throw out long lasting hitboxes. Shulk feels like a character that is least effected by Luma's shenanigans, and can take it out with no more than a passing thought. Even if it's not bothering you, removing the Luma removes a lot of Rosalina's kill power and range, stripping away a lot of her options.

Overall, I'd say the matchup is even. Shulk has an easy time removing Rosalina's core mechanic from play, but he also has the ideal recovery for Rosalina to gimp. The match should usually go to whichever player can seize a greater advantage during the Monado arts, and snowball a victory from that.

Aside from the various points I made about the neutral game, Rosa and Shulk have a few interesting quirks to how they use their different mechanics.

- Counter is quite unreliable against Rosalina's up air, or any other move that has both hitboxes happening close together. Being able to both activate the counter and immediately hit him out of the animation means Rosalina often doesn't need to worry about the option.

- As far as I'm aware, his recovery won't sweet spot the ledge outside of an incredibly short range. As such, having a good plan to hit him out of the attack can secure several kills that would otherwise escape you. Try to get creative with Luma, using it to cover both sides of his recovery, even if it doesn't work, it should be your goal to try and get as much value as possible from each Luma, even if that means using it to set up a favorable 50-50.

- Rosalina's recovery on the other hand, is a mirror of Shulk's, versatile and long ranged, but lacking the massive protection he's afforded. Above all else, stay unpredictable. It won't take much effort for him to swat a low recovering Rosalina with his choice of aerial, and recovering even slightly above the ledge will get you air slashed. I find launch star tends to make you feel fairly safe while recovering, but in this matchup a healthy dose of fear goes a long way towards extending your stocks.

- Range is an interesting topic to discuss. As Shulk's aerials are a force to be reckoned with, the Rosalina should prefer to avoid challenging him air to air, and mainly stick to the ground with shield approaches and using her anti-air options from the ground. Ground to ground is a very unique situation. On paper, Rosalina and Luma have options to outrange Shulk's similar options, however her 'disjoint', has a hurtbox, and doesn't trade favorably with Shulk's true disjoint. So, while she can use the standard method of punishing over aggressive aerials with her range, she can't outright challenge the hitboxes making effective use of pivot tilts and smashes more helpful in this matchup than others.

I still believe the matchup to be even, so mark me down as a 50-50. As with any matchup against an equally complex character, it will usually come down to who is better at dealing with their respective opponent's mechanics.

Oh...and the matchup is fun, really fun. It's like a 9.5/10 on the fun scale ( which I assume is scaled by very colorful units of measurement ).

 

[kenniky]

I'm pretty sure that the opponent can react to it even without expecting it, but I ignored it, since I've never seen a Shulk using that as a recovery, a friend of mine tried once and self-destructed because of it either having no ledge sweetspot or having it despite his body being 2 centimeters from the ledge and failing to grab it.

Back Slash Charge is a custom move, goes quite a bit farther than normal Back Slash and has I think 31 frames of superarmor. Still has the weird syndrome of being unable to grab the ledge, though.

I would imagine it might be able to get you through the first time due to surprise factor, but other than that not really anything anyone should worry about.

I just like pointing out random discrepancies

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I type those Kanji (Or Hanzi in Chinese, cuz they are Chinese), on my tablet by using a special typing system called Zu Ying Fu Hao in Chinese. Very similar to English's alphabet. But to use it is quite complicated to explain...

Anyway, I will update it.

I probably wouldn't bother using Kanji, since not everyone will be able to understand the letters. Instead, you could just go with the following...

Jump = [color=#0f0]
Speed = [color=#06f]
Shield = [color=#ff0]
Buster = [color=#93f]
Smash = [color=#f33]

Now, if you've seen the previous posts, the color that you're using will tell others which Monado Art that Shulk is using, as his Monado Arts are color-coded.

 

[Berserker.]

At the advantage, any art except shield is preferable for different reasons

Jump art is great for edgeguarding because it allows you to go far off-stage without any sort of fear and doubt and it's the art with the most combo potential. Most of the combos found from jump art are capable of killing early. Most of them aren't even hard to do (one of the combos though are difficult to pull off):

https://imgflip.com/gif/ga1jh
https://imgflip.com/gif/ga1fv
http://webmshare.com/0gPMe (If you land this then lol but it's hard to pull off)
http://smashboards.com/attachments/nair-dair-gif.36023/ (This one is kinda useless against Rosalina though imo)
http://smashboards.com/attachments/nair-bair-gif.36256/

Speed art is pretty decent but the damage output is lacking. It's mostly known as an art used at neutral if anything. It can be used for edgeguarding though because your recovery is slightly buffed horizontally. The art allows Shulk to do some combos in jump art (not all of 'em) but they don't deal as much damage. N-air > F-air > F-air is still possible with jump art although because of the lowered knockback and lowered jump height, it's easier to land air slash (but if you do this off-stage, you will DIE)

http://webmshare.com/6MJ71
https://imgflip.com/gif/ga20a

Buster is insane. The damage boost is all I need to prove my point of how scary buster is. Not good for edgeguarding though but it increases the reward for your ledge traps. The combos in buster are mostly 2 hits but they all deal INSANE amount of damage and are all easy to pull off

Smash art is the same case as buster except it increases knockback (growth). There aren't any combos in Smash art so the best time to use Smash art is when you have the positional advantage, when you have Rosalina off-stage, or when you have her hanging on the ledge


Basically, it goes like this:

Arts used at a disadvantage
1) Jump - Escape juggling situations, recovering
2) Speed - Escaping juggling situations, recovering
3) Shield - Escaping juggling situations, forcing attack staling, reducing the advantage
4) Smash - Escaping combos, escaping juggling situations (only at low to mid percentages is this safe)

Arts used at neutral
1) Speed - Mobility+range combo
2) Buster - Mid-range
3) Jump - Rushdown

Arts used at an advantage
1) Buster - Damage hard
2) Jump - Gimp hard
3) Smash - Kill hard
4) Speed - Damage a bit, gimp a bit, kill a bit

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but this probably should be noted.

Buster Monado Art is a threat to the Luma, especially since now that it only has 48 HP, it'll take less attacks to wipe out the Luma than before. Of course, the Smash Monado Art's increased knockback could send the Luma packing more quickly too, though Shulk would have the send the Luma over an abyss to truly take it out of the picture.

This is also important to keep in mind if Rosalina and Shulk are using their custom specials, as Shulk's Hyper Monado Arts could spell doom for the Luma much sooner than the other Monado Arts variations.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but this probably should be noted.

Buster Monado Art is a threat to the Luma, especially since now that it only has 48 HP, it'll take less attacks to wipe out the Luma than before. Of course, the Smash Monado Art's increased knockback could send the Luma packing more quickly too, though Shulk would have the send the Luma over an abyss to truly take it out of the picture.

This is also important to keep in mind if Rosalina and Shulk are using their custom specials, as Shulk's Hyper Monado Arts could spell doom for the Luma much sooner than the other Monado Arts variations.

I've already stated this but thanks anyway for emphasizing on this statement, M&S

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm gonna go with 55:45 for now. I still wanna fight Shulk more in the future, but I had a really long set against a very talented Shulk player yesterday, and I won most of the matches. He was a better player than me overall (I couldn't beat him with anyone else, though there was one match I came extremely close with Sonic - in fact I probably would have won if Sudden Death wasn't a thing, as I had a huge percentage advantage), and I am almost positive he was a tourney player (he utilised dash dancing and some other things a few times). He sent me a friend request though as he found my Rosalina play really intense. I'm thinking of looking around the Shulk boards to see if he happens to visit this site.

I don't think the MU could ever go above 60:40, but it wouldn't go below even either. I'll stick with the 55:45 for now. Hopefully I can come back during the 2nd discussion period and give a more in depth write-up, but I don't have the time right now.

 

[shrooby]

so we're discussing Rosie in yonder Dedede forum
Input and discussion from the other side would be most appreciated.~

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Shulk is the character I have the most match-up experience with due to a close friend of mine uses him the most. On top of all that, I’ve faced many other people who used Shulk. So I wanted to make absolutely sure I got my thoughts off on him.

My analysis will be from Rosalina’s perspective. Anyway, here it goes.

Let’s get one thing straight, this match-up is even. They both have advantage and disadvantages against each-other.


General Negatives

Let’s start with Rosalina’s general negatives against Shulk. To start, Shulk has amazing range. Range that exceeds even Rosalina. His nair is pretty great at keeping Rosalina out and even approaching Rosalina. His tilts are also pretty good as well with D-tilt being one of Shulk’s faster moves and Up-tilt messing with Rosalina’s usual air strategy. Though, the biggest thing Shulk has in this match-up is his ability to deal with Luma. He is fantastic at dealing with Luma. His Nair provides just the right coverage to both hit Rosalina and separate and damage Luma.

Shulk’s also good at edgeguarding Rosalina’s predictable recovery. Fair is pretty good at constantly keeping her out. Down smash is also good at catching ledge options.

The most important thing Shulk has is the monado arts which I’ll go over in a different section.

General Positives

While Shulk has range, Rosalina has spacing. Rosalina can set up Shulk so that he is forced into unfavorable situation. This is comboed with Shulk’s already poor frame data. For example, maybe he jumps over Luma to try to get you. This puts him in an unfavorable situation. He will probably expect a counteract by Luma so using a Nair, Fair, or even Rosalina own spaced up smashed can catch a Shulk we cleaver prediction.

Rosalina’s Luma also helps give more damage output then Shulk without buster (which when activated also causes him to take more damage). Her job does more damage, (and is generally more safer with Luma), her throws, she has her signature up-air strings which deals quite a lot of damage with Rosalina and Luma’s hitboxes combined. This also forces Shulk to focus on Luma.

Rosalina isn’t a slouch at the edgeguarding department. Back-air is pretty much death off stage if you can get it. Shulk is also going to be forced to recover high or low sometimes. Especially if he doesn’t speed or jump on. This leads perfectly into a Dair. Which of course spikes. The edgeguarding doesn’t end there. Rosalina has Luma. Sending Luma over the edge can also have interesting effects on how opponents react. They can jump higher, or resort to try for the ledge under the stage. If they jump higher, you can go for the juggle depending on Shulk’s mode. If they go below, you could try for the spike...or you could leave Luma there and predict Shulk will try to air slash you by missing the sweetspot. If this happens, and Luma is perfectly spaced, Shulk’s eating Luma’s down-air (and potentially without a second jump now).


Dealing with Shulk’s Arts

Now you may be thinking of how bias I am due to Rosalina seemingly getting a much larger analysis. Or how it looks like Rosalina has the overall advantage.

Well, thats because we haven’t got to the meat of Shulk. His arts. Chances are, if you are facing a Shulk, he will be taking advantage of this.

So it is important to know the advantages and disadvantages Rosalina has for each art.

Jump

Shulk will be using this art to either increased mobility or recovery. Luma’s spacing isn’t going to help much here. I suggest throwing out spaced nairs and up airs to try to deal with him. Alternatively, Shulk takes increased knockback, so getting a good F-smash/Up-smash read is golden. Overall, play a bit defensively, but have offense still. Shulk isn’t going to be using his more powerful attacks in this state, and if he does, they will be weaker. Don’t stay underhim all the time or else you might eat a nair as well. He can use this for gimping as well so be careful of that off stage.

Speed

Probably the second most troublesome art. He gets even more increased mobility. Even with less damage output, he has plenty of opportunity to attack. He is especially going to go for a lot of pivots and nairs. It’s best to play defensive until it wears off. Going to be hard to space this one. I personally recommend staying off the ground. (Though try to avoid up-tilts). Spacing is key here. So counter with pivots of your own and down-tilts. It's probably for the best to keep Luma with you at this point as well. (Though there might be times when you want Luma to avoid potential damage).

Shield

Shulk’s going to go for this when he is at high percentage. Due to Rosalina’s light nature, getting chipped at is bad. The good news is Rosalina takes less shield damage now...the bad news is Shulk takes less himself and less hitstun on top of that. It’s best to fight fire with fire and play defensive yourself. It’s also easier with Shulk having decreased mobility. You don’t have to find opportunities to attack him in this state. Not like it would help consider he takes a lot less damage with this on. He’s most likely already at kill percent when using this as well. Grabs are good here since regular attacks aren’t going to be effective on his shield. Depending on percent, you could even try for Up-throw up-air.

Buster

This is the big one right here. This is going to make or break you. Shulk’s buster is a problem. He can do a ton of damage to both you and Luma in this state. It just keeps getting better with his attacking being safe on shield as well. His F-smash is especially deadly damage wise. You want to be cautious here. Can’t afford to slip here. With that said, the saving grace is that Shulk also receives more damage. Chip damage is much nicer, and getting reads here is certainly rewarding. Spacing with Nair and d-tilt is crucial here. Try to have Luma out to affect Shulk’s movements, but don’t have Luma out carelessly because this is where Luma can die easily. This is a turn table for Shulk don't mess up.

Smash

Shulk’s aren’t really going to be using this that much. Just be cautious. He most likely won’t be doing this at his own kill percent either so it really isn’t worth attacking head on. It is useful for knocking Luma away though if they have some damage on it already,


Closing

Overall, Shulk’s got mobility, arts, and range. However, Rosalina’s got spacing and damage output. While Luma and Shulk’s arts might seem similar, there is no disadvantage to having Luma. Meanwhile, Shulk does lose something when he switches to each art. This coupled with poor frame data means Shulk is going to have to be just as careful as Rosalina. Suggested a more defensive playstyle for both sides for this match-up.

...Did I do good @ Berserker. ? :3

 

[Berserker.]

Good job Raccoon :3 *pats head*

Don't forget that Smash art's increased knockback helps with knocking luma away really easily but Shulk will have to chip Luma's health down by a bit first.

 

[mario123007]

Shulk is the character I have the most match-up experience with due to a close friend of mine uses him the most. On top of all that, I’ve faced many other people who used Shulk. So I wanted to make absolutely sure I got my thoughts off on him.

My analysis will be from Rosalina’s perspective. Anyway, here it goes.

Let’s get one thing straight, this match-up is even. They both have advantage and disadvantages against each-other.


General Negatives

Let’s start with Rosalina’s general negatives against Shulk. To start, Shulk has amazing range. Range that exceeds even Rosalina. His nair is pretty great at keeping Rosalina out and even approaching Rosalina. His tilts are also pretty good as well with D-tilt being one of Shulk’s faster moves and Up-tilt messing with Rosalina’s usual air strategy. Though, the biggest thing Shulk has in this match-up is his ability to deal with Luma. He is fantastic at dealing with Luma. His Nair provides just the right coverage to both hit Rosalina and separate and damage Luma.

Shulk’s also good at edgeguarding Rosalina’s predictable recovery. Fair is pretty good at constantly keeping her out. Down smash is also good at catching ledge options.

The most important thing Shulk has is the monado arts which I’ll go over in a different section.

General Positives

While Shulk has range, Rosalina has spacing. Rosalina can set up Shulk so that he is forced into unfavorable situation. This is comboed with Shulk’s already poor frame data. For example, maybe he jumps over Luma to try to get you. This puts him in an unfavorable situation. He will probably expect a counteract by Luma so using a Nair, Fair, or even Rosalina own spaced up smashed can catch a Shulk we cleaver prediction.

Rosalina’s Luma also helps give more damage output then Shulk without buster (which when activated also causes him to take more damage). Her job does more damage, (and is generally more safer with Luma), her throws, she has her signature up-air strings which deals quite a lot of damage with Rosalina and Luma’s hitboxes combined. This also forces Shulk to focus on Luma.

Rosalina isn’t a slouch at the edgeguarding department. Back-air is pretty much death off stage if you can get it. Shulk is also going to be forced to recover high or low sometimes. Especially if he doesn’t speed or jump on. This leads perfectly into a Dair. Which of course spikes. The edgeguarding doesn’t end there. Rosalina has Luma. Sending Luma over the edge can also have interesting effects on how opponents react. They can jump higher, or resort to try for the ledge under the stage. If they jump higher, you can go for the juggle depending on Shulk’s mode. If they go below, you could try for the spike...or you could leave Luma there and predict Shulk will try to air slash you by missing the sweetspot. If this happens, and Luma is perfectly spaced, Shulk’s eating Luma’s down-air (and potentially without a second jump now).


Dealing with Shulk’s Arts

Now you may be thinking of how bias I am due to Rosalina seemingly getting a much larger analysis. Or how it looks like Rosalina has the overall advantage.

Well, thats because we haven’t got to the meat of Shulk. His arts. Chances are, if you are facing a Shulk, he will be taking advantage of this.

So it is important to know the advantages and disadvantages Rosalina has for each art.

Jump

Shulk will be using this art to either increased mobility or recovery. Luma’s spacing isn’t going to help much here. I suggest throwing out spaced nairs and up airs to try to deal with him. Alternatively, Shulk takes increased knockback, so getting a good F-smash/Up-smash read is golden. Overall, play a bit defensively, but have offense still. Shulk isn’t going to be using his more powerful attacks in this state, and if he does, they will be weaker. Don’t stay underhim all the time or else you might eat a nair as well. He can use this for gimping as well so be careful of that off stage.

Speed

Probably the second most troublesome art. He gets even more increased mobility. Even with less damage output, he has plenty of opportunity to attack. He is especially going to go for a lot of pivots and nairs. It’s best to play defensive until it wears off. Going to be hard to space this one. I personally recommend staying off the ground. (Though try to avoid up-tilts). Spacing is key here. So counter with pivots of your own and down-tilts. It's probably for the best to keep Luma with you at this point as well. (Though there might be times when you want Luma to avoid potential damage).

Shield

Shulk’s going to go for this when he is at high percentage. Due to Rosalina’s light nature, getting chipped at is bad. The good news is Rosalina takes less shield damage now...the bad news is Shulk takes less himself and less hitstun on top of that. It’s best to fight fire with fire and play defensive yourself. It’s also easier with Shulk having decreased mobility. You don’t have to find opportunities to attack him in this state. Not like it would help consider he takes a lot less damage with this on. He’s most likely already at kill percent when using this as well. Grabs are good here since regular attacks aren’t going to be effective on his shield. Depending on percent, you could even try for Up-throw up-air.

Buster

This is the big one right here. This is going to make or break you. Shulk’s buster is a problem. He can do a ton of damage to both you and Luma in this state. It just keeps getting better with his attacking being safe on shield as well. His F-smash is especially deadly damage wise. You want to be cautious here. Can’t afford to slip here. With that said, the saving grace is that Shulk also receives more damage. Chip damage is much nicer, and getting reads here is certainly rewarding. Spacing with Nair and d-tilt is crucial here. Try to have Luma out to affect Shulk’s movements, but don’t have Luma out carelessly because this is where Luma can die easily. This is a turn table for Shulk don't mess up.

Smash

Shulk’s aren’t really going to be using this that much. Just be cautious. He most likely won’t be doing this at his own kill percent either so it really isn’t worth attacking head on. It is useful for knocking Luma away though if they have some damage on it already,


Closing

Overall, Shulk’s got mobility, arts, and range. However, Rosalina’s got spacing and damage output. While Luma and Shulk’s arts might seem similar, there is no disadvantage to having Luma. Meanwhile, Shulk does lose something when he switches to each art. This coupled with poor frame data means Shulk is going to have to be just as careful as Rosalina. Suggested a more defensive playstyle for both sides for this match-up.

...Did I do good @ Berserker. ? :3

Wow, so long... don't have time to see all of it, but amazing!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Shulk's discussion period has come to a close, so here's the overall average that I've gotten for the Rosalina vs. Shulk match-up.

[53:47]

The match-up appears to favor Rosalina slightly, but to be fair, the outcome seems closer to even in a default only scuffle.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Star Fox's ace pilot, Falco.

 

[mario123007]

Falco

• Runs slower than Fox, but still has a powerful dash attack.
• Blaster can make Luma flinch.
• Others are quite same with Fox, like fast attacks, and high damage grabs.

Rosalina & Luma

• Need to be aware of Falco's blaster, can not only give Luma damage but can also make you and Luma flinch.
• With Luma, edgeguard Falco can be oretty easy.
• Slower attacks at air, so utlize the big attack range more.

This match I currently give 70:30

 

[tconan]

Falco

• Runs slower than Fox, but still has a powerful dash attack.
• Blaster can make Luma flinch.
• Others are quite same with Fox, like fast attacks, and high damage grabs.

Rosalina & Luma

• Need to be aware of Falco's blaster, can not only give Luma damage but can also make you and Luma flinch.
• With Luma, edgeguard Falco can be oretty easy.
• Slower attacks at air, so utlize the big attack range more.

This match I currently give 70:30

70:30?? Wow, I didn't expect that with your analysis, is it really that good of a matchup for Rosa?

I'll abstain from a ratio since I don't have experience against good Falco's, bit I'll point out a few things:
Falco can edgeguard Rosa with bair and dair, sometimes even fair and down b.
Down b reflects Luma shot.
Like always, Rosa gets juggled easily.
Bair in general is a great move for Falco.
Rosa can edgeguard and juggle Falco really effectively; juggling is especially easier than with Fox because of very slow startup on Falco's dair.

 

[mario123007]

70:30?? Wow, I didn't expect that with your analysis, is it really that good of a matchup for Rosa?

I'll abstain from a ratio since I don't have experience against good Falco's, bit I'll point out a few things:
Falco can edgeguard Rosa with bair and dair, sometimes even fair and down b.
Down b reflects Luma shot.
Like always, Rosa gets juggled easily.
Bair in general is a great move for Falco.
Rosa can edgeguard and juggle Falco really effectively; juggling is especially easier than with Fox because of very slow startup on Falco's dair.

Yes, it is my own analysis, it can be wrong. But to me 70:30 makes a real deal to me for this MU.
So...what is your ratio?