Rock Paper Scissors

[Hansel34]

Hmmm, yup, but its kinda disappointing when people can't try at all when theres no money involved. Is money really that essential in a tourney so people won't sandbag and joke around... it seems like money has to be involved... which is kinda sad... ish.

 

[victra♥]

hansel we should be bffs

people should take your opinion into consideration considering you're one of the new players everyone is talking about in hopes of joining out community.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

haha that's pretty amazing alvin! (or kelvin?) usually those kind of locks are impractical in matches haha but that was really impressive to have pulled off

 

[MeSSi]

haha that's pretty amazing alvin! (or kelvin?) usually those kind of locks are impractical in matches haha but that was really impressive to have pulled off

yea its always alvin... kelvin never posts.

 

[Yoshara]

Vic, you are completely missing the point. We don't want everything to be based around money, or competition. What we want is for a competion to have something on the line to make it more meaningful. We still want free events where we can just hang out and have a good time, but we also want something where we can prove our skill without the question of "was my opponent really trying".

 

[T-block]

Vic, you are blowing everything WAY out of proportion. You're uncomfortable with other players' mindsets? You know I love you man, but listen to yourself. The love for competing and the social aspect is STILL THERE. Very few of us actually said that money was the main motivation (and as you said yourself, how could it be?). But what, now that some of us ACKNOWLEDGE that money is necessary for competition, it suddenly doesn't feel right playing against us? Cut the drama and take some time to cool off before you say anything rash please. On a personal note, what is your opinion of me now? Am I one of these players who is robotically driven by money?

You missed a very important point I made a while ago that was touched on again by Stephan. We can have both. Nobody commented on my suggestion that our tournaments occur every two months, but I really think it'd be a good idea. Now, instead of holding "casual" events every month, would it so horrible to alternate each month between "casual" events and money events?

To those who enjoyed Melee/Brawl being on the same day, again, I'm glad you had fun, but I hope you can appreciate how much of a nightmare this was to host. Ignore the situation with the setups for a sec - running pools and brackets simultaneously, with the majority of players needed in both brackets at certain points of time just...doesn't work (big thanks to Mike, Vic, Carl, David, and anyone else who helped for ensuring things ran somewhat smoothly). I've hosted Melee/Brawl in my basement before, and things went great. It's not something that can be adapted into a tournament setting though.

Alvin, you're talking as if I can't already do that stuff xP

 

[Alphicans]

I should really practice that more with GaW, considering how easy it is, and I can kill at like 80 (meaning I don't have to do it for long).

 

[victra♥]

I fully grasp the point Stephan. I'm not denying what you're saying. That's why I'm quitting the competitive scene. I'd rather think "was my opponent really trying" than to think "is my opponent motivated to beat me so he can win money or to simply defeat me".

To me, beating your opponent is meaningful and motivation enough. Even free tournaments can prove skill if people had the right mentality (which I thought we all had. But now I know i am wrong.) Since in a tournament bracket, you can only lose twice, and you have to try to make it as far as you can. You can't afford to sandbag and lose. Not because there is money on the line, but pride. The feeling of accomplishment to me is way more important than money. Money is a plus but its not my driving force. Unlike in a smashfest where matches come and go and no one is really keeping track of wins or loses. But once again, this is how I always felt and this is what I thought everyone felt as well. My whole view of our community...of you guys, has really really changed today.

So yeah, I understand that some of you guys like money and like playing for it. I obviously don't and I don't want to and won't participate with people with that mentality. Whether its right or wrong, I don't really care. I'm uncomfortable with it so I don't want to be around it any longer. Simple as that

edit: When I was competing for the engineering competition last year and again this year it was about $20. There was no cash prize or anything. There was no material benefit. No academic benefit. In fact, you had to shell out another $200 to travel to nationals. Even then, my team mates and I were so motivated to do well in this competition and to make it to nationals again that the $20 was a second though. Even the extra $200 was a second thought. We just wanted to win. We wanted to represent UofA again. We wanted to feel like we accomplished something. Everyone tried their best because your pride as an engineering student was on the line. To a much lesser extent, that's how I feel about my matches in melee. I hope you guys know where I am coming from. I'm just trying to get across how I feel. I'm not trying to say that this is how everyone should be. I just thought that's how everyone thought as well.

 

[Yoshara]

I am just going to make a quick analogy here.

Imagine smashfests as the season and tournaments as the playoffs. Yes smashfests can be serious, but when compared to a tournament they pale in comparison.

 

[victra♥]

I don't know why you guys are even arguing about it at this point. I'm not even saying that any of you guys are wrong. I'm just saying what my opinion is and why I no longer thing this is right for me. Like, just think of me as one of those casual players who didn't like the tournament setting and decided to not get into competitive smash :/

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

ok bye victor.

Jan 8th for tournament? I'm down for that date. It doesn't really matter to me if melee and brawl are on the same day or not.

 

[victra♥]

good bye dan. I'm glad you can get your monthly paychecks again.

 

[~Firefly~]

edit: When I was competing for the engineering competition last year and again this year it was about $20. There was no cash prize or anything. There was no material benefit. No academic benefit. In fact, you had to shell out another $200 to travel to nationals. Even then, my team mates and I were so motivated to do well in this competition and to make it to nationals again that the $20 was a second though. Even the extra $200 was a second thought. We just wanted to win. We wanted to represent UofA again. We wanted to feel like we accomplished something. Everyone tried their best because your pride as an engineering student was on the line. To a much lesser extent, that's how I feel about my matches in melee. I hope you guys know where I am coming from. I'm just trying to get across how I feel. I'm not trying to say that this is how everyone should be. I just thought that's how everyone thought as well.

This is more or less exactly what people like Stephan and Mike have been trying to describe to you. How would you have felt about that competition if you didn't have to invest anything into it?

 

[victra♥]

We had our pride on the line and we wanted that sense of accomplishment when we won. That's all I had in mind. Not money. Is that what you're getting at?

and this isn't anything personal you guys =.= I still like you all as people. Like, I'll still smash at smashfests and small things like that. I just dont like the tourney scene now. I guess I'm just a japanese player at heart.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

vic just give it up and stop talking about it, ur beating a dead horse

i've been talking to tyler about it and we THINK we might do brawl/melee on seperate days because of how so VERY difficult it is to organize so many matches all at the same time with ppl playing both games

 

[victra♥]

people need to stop replying to my posts with the same old things then =.=

 

[Yoshara]

Not a response to Victor.

The reason I enter tournaments with a fee is not because I want to win money, but instead because I want a serious enviroment where every win means something, in fact the money is secondary, and all the fee does is give the idea that I have to try my hardest to get my moneys worth of matches, and I am pretty sure that almost everyone else is the same and that removes the doubt I may have about my opponent sandbagging.

 

[Kuraudo]

Can't believe I just read through all of that.

In the end I suppose it boils down to opinion. I make it a point to never sandbag in my tournament matches whatsoever. And if I do happen to sandbag it's to potentially get a feel for my opponent in the first game, win or lose.

I'm not just thinking of us, but the whole community. The rest of Canada is ripe with competition, big or small numbers alike. Whether our tournaments had an entry fee or not, I refuse to sit idly by and watch as our region is mocked for this kind of tomfoolery. If things are free, that's Dan's problem to not come and he suffers when it comes to being an inactive player. The same goes for anyone else who dares to forfeit because the money isn't there. Luke had the inconvenience of other plans and we couldn't do it all in time and Jack's reasoning was interesting enough in seeing what would play out if everyone below the top 3 PR players fought for the top. Affordable because it was a free entry, but I felt for the ones that remained, it didn't cheapen the competition for me whatsoever.

I'm not faulting Dan for this (I was the one who brought 64 though. gdit lol), because trips to the city just for something free with no potential profit as a top player, seems a little ridiculous. Brutal and blunt as this is, money is a drive for some people. I disagree with it, and see money as a perk, a good reward for taking a game you love and playing it to the best of your ability. But just because I disagree with it doesn't make him wrong either.

Victor is right. Stephan is right. Heck we're all right when it comes down to it. I'm just one of those select few I suppose that are not effected by what's on the line or not. I don't want to see us falling apart like this over something so trivial. Free or with an entry fee, if you want a good reputation and to make face to the rest of this vast fighting community, you'll want to try.

Me? I'm aiming to become one of the top Sonic players in the world. Free entry or no, I can't afford to take any losses lying down. That's why I busted my *** to beat Mike and Kelvin through the winner bracket. I fought hard to try and break through Mike's Diddy. So hard in fact that I began to pull a comeback that one would think can only happen when something is on the line.

Well something was on the line for me alright. My pride and my right to prove and back my talk that I am a high level competitor and that **** good with Sonic alone. That's my drive right there. If there was money involved and I got 3rd, cool stuff for me. That's just a perk in life to me.

Alvin, I hope that you tried when you beat me in Winners Finals, because I gave it my absolute all. I'll keep coming back with whatever's on the line, and I don't have any plans of stopping until I've made it to the top and beaten the rest. Don't quit either, Vic.

Also, as a suggestion? Run both games on the same day, but we take turns on which events go first. Melee Doubles/Singles, and then end with Brawl Doubles/Singles. Games won't mesh and it encourages everyone to not have to keep making switches that throw them off.

...

Still can't believe I read through all of that. I had a lot of fun at this tournament. One of the funnest I'd been to in a while, asides Phoenix 4.

 

[DTP]

I for one had more fun yesterday then any tourney or get-together we've had since adat2 a year and a half ago. That's what I thought of it. Though the pools were a little messy, we finished earlier than most of the tourney's we've had even when starting several hours late. Keep in mind we were running and entire 25 person single bracket and pools instead of a tinky lowtier/midtier side-event. I also like playing children's video games for fun and I especially like being able to see everyone again, but that's just me.

Wow you guys, so many posts in this thread in one day. I haven't read through all of them, and I don't even know if we're still on this topic (lol), but I'm with Victor.
I had a ton of fun at this and it was awesome meeting some new people for once.

Not saying that I prefer no entry fee, I really don't care cuz I have a job and can afford it rofl, but I don't see how this tourney was THAT terrible. It was probably my favorite one so far.


*High fives Victor*

 

[~Firefly~]

We had our pride on the line and we wanted that sense of accomplishment when we won. That's all I had in mind. Not money. Is that what you're getting at?

Yes. However, I think that for a lot of people (myself included), that sense of accomplishment you keep talking about is intensified when people know there is money on the line. This has nothing to do with the idea of making a profit; it's all about knowing that everybody involved is trying their hardest to do the best they can. Reaching personal goals when you can be confident your opponent is trying their best as well is an amazing feeling, and it just isn't the same when you don't know if your opponent was giving it their all as well. Rivalries are great for this as well, but not everybody you play is going to care as much about the outcome of a match as you do unless there is something else at stake. This is why people do money matches even if they know they're going to lose. Even players that don't have a shot at money use tournaments to prove themselves because of the implication that everybody is taking it seriously.

Edit: I got ninja'd so hard...

 

[lilseph]

7 pages guys. Keep it up!

 

[Kuraudo]

7's my lucky number.

 

[Yoshara]

Isn't 7 everyones lucky number?

 

[~Firefly~]

One of the funnest I'd been to in a while, asides Phoenix 4.

Just posting to state my approval of this message. =]

 

[Kuraudo]

Isn't 7 everyones lucky number?

My 7's luckier than your 7.

 

[victra♥]

we should push on for 1 more page cause 8 is the chinese lucky number

stephan you're so wrong bro

 

[t3h Icy]

tl;dr, Victra come to Calgary (or Lethbridge ;D) where the cool people play Smash.

 

[Yoshara]

What am I wrong about? Number 7 being everyones lucky number?

 

[victra♥]

im trying to stir up drama for 1 more page lol

calgary is tight. im so homo for paul

 

[DTP]

Maybe for some Stephen. Money to me isn't motivation to try hard at any thought level. If I play someone, I'm gonna win because I want to outplay them. Heck, at this point I don't even care if I lose when I play someone money involved or not. Ron has been trying to beat me for the longest time. When he does take me out I won't even think about losing, I'll be so happy for him that he was able to achieve his goal. Whether I lose money or didn't get my money's worth doesn't even come to mind. I guess i'm competitive in a different sense than other people. Either way i'm so turned off right now.

I know, but it's not like I'm telepathic and can tell. Like, I wish there were more chill players out there like Darren and Wilson and stuff. Guys who don't have any hidden agendas. oh well.

No, I understand that. But my reason for not wanting to play at this point isn't because of a fee or not. I just proposed an idea. Its because of the responses I got about how people only wanted to compete if they could win money, and that people only feel motivated to try because of money. I guess I was just naive the 4 years i've been playing smash thinking we all played because we liked the social aspect of it or that we had fun competing for the sake of competing. Pretty much, a community full of Darrens.

So don't take it personally or anything. Its not about implementing a fee at this point for me. Its the mindsets of some players that makes me uncomfortable is all.

ahahaha <3

k I read through all the posts and, uhhhhh..... yeah wow. Not sure what to say lol
But I will say that some of you have been a bit harsh of Vic. He made some legitimate points (and so have other people, I'll admit). He's like, always been here and suddenly some of you seem to treat him like **** :/


Victor don't quit!




EDIT: WILSON!!!
I completely forgot about our matches when I left ahaha
We're still 1-1 with the DK dittos!

We must play again.

 

[Yoshara]

The only reason I have been harsh in anyway is when he was implying that we are only in it for the money, when in fact almost all of us, are in for the sake of competition, and the money is just a way of making sure it is seperate from casuals and so people don't sandbag ('cause that would be equal to wasting $10 and no one wants to waste money).

EDIT: None of us want Vic to quit, that is why we are arguing.

Dammit I am starting it again, aren't I?

 

[Limeee]

a community full of darrens made me giggle

 

[Kuraudo]

What's that supposed to mean? A community full of half-black people?

 

[Yoshara]

Quick aside, WTF are you doin' here Kinzer?

 

[Kuraudo]

What the--

He was checking out the thread?

 

[Yoshara]

That's right, run when I mention your name to make me look crazy! COWARD!

 

[victra♥]

What's that supposed to mean? A community full of half-black people?

this ain't atlantic south

looooooooooooooooooooool

 

[DTP]

a community full of darrens made me giggle

Me too lmao!

 

[x After Dawn x]

lol what was darren's nickname back at adat2? it was something to do with obama

 

[~Firefly~]

Barack O'Brawler! =D