Rock Paper Scissors

[t3h Icy]

<3 Victra.

 

[x After Dawn x]

i did read your posts, it just seemed to me like there would be much less of a point for you to come all the way to the u on a saturday to host for a game you wouldn't be playing anymore.

another question is, if melee and brawl are separate, who is going to host melee? are you willing to come out on 2/4 of the saturdays of each month to host?

 

[MeSSi]

lol u obviously didn't read my post, i said i would still host and tournies would ALWAYS have entry fees from now on plus run more smoothly since i'd only be TO'ing. I agree with dan that entry fees are important for EVERYONE even if you usually don't make money. Also melee and brawl would happen on separate days.

I talked to maiko though and maybe it'd be possible for me to get into the game again if i started playing other ppl besides jamie + keith all the time. Maybe take jack's advice and play a new character too. We'll see. If there's another smashfest sometime i'll try and make it out to that cuz u guys are pretty fun to hang out with and hopefully a smashfest would rekindle my enjoyment of the game. I will still be coming to host tournies though for sure.

also are ppl interested in a december monthly? i know tons of university ppl have finals and then its xmas soon after that. I think having one early january (perhaps jan 8?) would be best. Post here if that works for u

the twins like this. jan 8th is cool. jack teach me tech skill plz

 

[lilseph]

Vic teach me melee

 

[victra♥]

you're already really good at melee kyle ;D

 

[lilseph]

I'm good with tippers. Now i need someone to play against to get wave dashing down and all that good stuff

 

[Alphicans]

Victor, you're taking it as if the only reason we got new people was because it was free, and not because it was advertised through flyers.

Look at that... An asian ignoring the facts and substituting it for their personal opinion.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I forgot to add this in earlier, but when I have to travel all the way from fort sask to this edmonton tournament, I find it a waste of time when it turns into a free tournament.

Also, when we were told it would be a money tournament if people got more tvs, ash went out of his way to get more tvs for us and coming back disappointed with a no entry fee tournament.

Is this really fair to us? This is false advertising.

Victor, you can do that no entry fee bull**** all you want idc, I'm just saying I won't be attending any of it.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

i did read your posts, it just seemed to me like there would be much less of a point for you to come all the way to the u on a saturday to host for a game you wouldn't be playing anymore.

another question is, if melee and brawl are separate, who is going to host melee? are you willing to come out on 2/4 of the saturdays of each month to host?

ah good point tyler, do you want to host melee and i'll host brawl? i can book rooms for both of us if you let me know when a good date for the melee scene is, wanna send me ur msn and/or cell number so we can talk more about details and what not?

edit: don't worry dan tournies from now on WILL have entry fees, i kind of agree getting rid of entry fee was unfair and not the greatest idea, it won't happen again, my apologies to everyone who went out of their way for us, thank you for making the tourney actually possible though!

 

[x After Dawn x]

victor, i'm sorry to say but your argument is really lacking right now.

for one, luke is right; you're acting like the free entry was the sole reason why there were more people this time. in fact, that's not true at all because it was the advertising and flyers that made it happen, and in this case, putting a SMALL entry fee would actually INCREASE the overall attendance and participation instead of decreasing it, because according to dan, ash went out of his way to get TVs and was lied to.

tournaments are tournaments, not smashfests. there is money on the line. you're acting like money is a totally bad thing because it decreases attendance, but in reality you just dislike it because it's draining your wallet, in which case I suggest YOU get a job instead of telling dan to get one. besides, nobody is forcing you to go to a tournament and spend money.

i am also willing to say that if you keep the entry free again and don't advertise, i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that those guys might not know when the next tourney is and they won't show up. but if you do advertise, keep in touch with those guys, and put a small entry fee, the attendance will increase and the only person who won't be going anymore will be you.

tl;dr, not trying to be an ******* or trying to "take sides" or anything but i have to call things as they are.

Mike: I think I could host Melee. I'll PM you my MSN and cell so we can talk

 

[victra♥]

kay gg and gl guys. i'm out.

at least on the plus side, I don't have to waste a saturday again. Catch you guys around campus sometime.

 

[Limeee]

ITT: people saying their own opinion is better than others

 

[victra♥]

not really. just preferences. some people will quit cause they won't win money, others quit because they don't want to be part of a shallow community.

 

[x After Dawn x]

i don't think anybody is saying their opinion is "better", it just takes work, time, and effort to set up these monthlies at the u of a, and it doesn't make sense to make it a smashfest when somebody could just have a smashfest at their house.

edit: victor, i have never made money at any tournament and i never quit because of that.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

not really. just preferences. some people will quit cause they won't win money, others quit because they don't want to be part of a shallow community.

pfft i love our community, the ppl in it are one of the things actually keeping me wanting to come and host these things cuz i love hanging out with everyone there

 

[victra♥]

I did too, I just want it bigger with the best way possible is all. I just didn't know there were people in our community playing for the wrong reasons. I'm not comfortable with that.

edit: victor, i have never made money at any tournament and i never quit because of that.

yeah...exactly the point i was trying to make. That's not the reason i'm quitting.

 

[Alphicans]

not really. just preferences. some people will quit cause they won't win money, others quit because they don't want to be part of a shallow community.

You're like the only one caring about this, and it's because you're too cheap, and think 10 bucks is a lot of money. In melee doubles chances are you'll make your money back, so like I don't even see your own personal problem with this. Don't call us shallow, we just want the community to work for everyone. Trying to attract new comers is important, but we also want everyone to be satisfied with what we're doing, because people who go to it are what is important.

 

[victra♥]

if there was an admission fee, our attendance wouldn't have been as big as it was. The newer players may or may not have attended, but the melee players would not have played brawl and the brawl players would not have played melee. I don't really care that its 10 dollars luke. Its just, we can get more out of our tournaments without it. Our community needs to grow and cater to new potential players, not cater to the top 3.

I don't care winning money luke. Whether I win money in doubles is w/e. I just try to make it as far as I can in every event.

 

[x After Dawn x]

but you're also forgetting that the next melee and brawl monthlies will be on separate days, and without them being in the same room on the same day, i highly doubt you're going to find many melee people coming to the brawl monthlies and vice versa.

 

[victra♥]

exactly my point again tyler. I think you have the wrong idea of what side i'm on bro.

 

[x After Dawn x]

but i'm saying even if they're free, you still won't see melee players coming to the brawl monthlies and vice versa cause they're separate and people aren't going to come all the way to the u on another saturday each month just to play a game they don't play.

if you're saying it's bad that the monthlies are on separate days, then that's a different can of worms than entry fee

 

[victra♥]

i'm saying its bad that the monthlies are on separate days but that was something i only briefly talked about pages ago.

but yeah i feel so uncomfortable now around you guys. Not on a personal basis though. I just thought it would be better for our community and would promote growth if we cut the fee. Then, some of you opposed the idea and wanted a cash prize to motivate you to win. I actually never thought that's how some of you guys thought of this game...

I'm just really uncomfortable playing someone with the mindset "i need to beat this person so i can get closer to winning money". I just thought everyone was competing for the sake of competing. Maybe tournaments aren't the right thing for me anymore since I know this now and that's why I kinda don't really feel like coming to these anymore. Maybe I just had the wrong idea of what a competitive scene really was. I guess I should just be a casual player.

 

[x After Dawn x]

=/

most of us don't make money at these things so you don't have to feel uncomfortable around people like me lol

 

[Yoshara]

The reason why we play better/more seriously when there is a fee is not just because of a cash prize, it is because we put something on the line. The point of the fee is largely psycological, it is the fact that you spent money on this, and you want to get your moneys worth by getting good, skillful matches. When you take money out of the equation it just makes everything seem more casual with nothing on the line, even if it at a subconscious level.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

yoshara just hit the nail on the head right there

i'm just gonna ignore vic's pessimism

P.S. is anybody opposed to jan 8th for next brawl monthly? if not i'll book it sometime soon

 

[MeSSi]

have both games on the same day. it was cool talking with the melee boys and learning a "new" game. but we should add money to these events to attract new "competitive" players, because its really only the competitive players that are the ones who will potentially stay in the community.

the community wont grow with casual players attending these events. if u advertise these events with money on the line, then the players who show up are confident in their gameplay and are willing to risk money and these are the players that are more likely to improve their gameplay (if they lose) and come back to try again, which will add numbers to the community.

 

[victra♥]

Maybe for some Stephen. Money to me isn't motivation to try hard at any thought level. If I play someone, I'm gonna win because I want to outplay them. Heck, at this point I don't even care if I lose when I play someone money involved or not. Ron has been trying to beat me for the longest time. When he does take me out I won't even think about losing, I'll be so happy for him that he was able to achieve his goal. Whether I lose money or didn't get my money's worth doesn't even come to mind. I guess i'm competitive in a different sense than other people. Either way i'm so turned off right now.

=/

most of us don't make money at these things so you don't have to feel uncomfortable around people like me lol

I know, but it's not like I'm telepathic and can tell. Like, I wish there were more chill players out there like Darren and Wilson and stuff. Guys who don't have any hidden agendas. oh well.

 

[KillLock]

have both games on the same day. it was cool talking with the melee boys and learning a "new" game. but we should add money to these events to attract new "competitive" players, because its really only the competitive players that are the ones who will potentially stay in the community.

the community wont grow with casual players attending these events. if u advertise these events with money on the line, then the players who show up are confident in their gameplay and are willing to risk money and these are the players that are more likely to improve their gameplay (if they lose) and come back to try again, which will add numbers to the community.

exactly.

And Jan 8 is okay with me.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

does everyone want both games on the same day? we could do that if tyler hosts melee on his laptop and i host brawl on mine and we communicate a little it should run really smoothly

also for the future PLEASE bring setups if you can, these monthlies can't happen without them. If you guys bring setups, I promise to make sure I make these tournaments as great as I possibly can and I'm sure tyler will do the same with melee

Edit: also im starting to think i was a little premature about wanting to quit playing, i'll see how it goes at the next smashfest we have. Speaking of which anyone want to host a smashfest sometime? :D

 

[Yoshara]

One can only be truly competetive if their opponent is, otherwise the match can be chalked up to just being a casual. While some matches between people with rivalries can be competetive, even without anything tangible on the line, that is thrown out the window when it is two people who don't know each other, so for the latter situation you would need something on the line. In fact, this has been pretty much what got competetive games started. For example, what made SF2 serious back in the day, was the fact that you had to put money down on every match, and even if you won, you didn't make money from it, all you won was the knowledge that you just beat someone in a serious match.

 

[x After Dawn x]

I'll do the best I can.

Victor, have you ever read Jack's MSN pm? "I don't know what they key to success is, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone." I'm not trying to seem super experienced here or anything but throughout all the tournaments I've hosted, I've learned that there is NO way pleasing every single person and the most a TO can do is make the best choice and move forward with it. This doesn't just apply to entry fee but also to things like stage lists, events organized, etc. Last time I tried hosting a tournament with shiro, I got SO much **** over the stage list that I tried to make as a middleground between the new one and the old one because half the people were strongly opposed to the new stage list and half the people were strongly favoring it. Then shiro deleted the thread, didn't give a **** about it, and the tournament never even happened because nobody could agree to anything, and I just decided to quit smash. So try to bear with us cause it's hard trying to make the best choice to suit everybody and no matter what we do, there will ALWAYS be somebody who's not happy with our decisions.

 

[ChaosDrifter]

i love (and am scared by) how much sense everyone is making in this thread now

 

[Limeee]

8 ****ing people viewing this thread?

holy shizznizz

 

[Hansel34]

Soooo... much.... Drama....

=/.

Haha, I didn't go to this tourney... but I can see both points, one side wants a flourishing community, with new people, lots of hype, its what makes smash fun.

The other side wants that... but they also want some money, since who doesn't like money =/. Sadly, the majority of smash players... don't make any money, and there pretty much putting in 10$'s to give to Dan/whoever. Yet, money does make everything more "serious", the need to win is greater, and in turn the hype is also greater, but seriously... most of us can't win anything anyways...

As a relatively new member of the community I guess, there was a smash tournament in Calgary a few months ago, and some people were talking about a 10$ entrance fee, if I recall. Now 10$'s isn't that much... but, I suck at melee. Any random person could and will Jv 5 stock me with ease XD. I'm pretty much throwing 10 bucks down the drain... and who doesn't like money o.0.

Theres nothing wrong with a incentive to do good, but truthfully that incentitive only applies to a few people. And I'm sure all of us can ( and i don't even live in edmonton =/) can see that the scene has been dying slowly. Heck, every tourney there seems to be less and less people attending, people are quiting, and there are almost never any new players.

idk, thats what I think

 

[victra♥]

No, I understand that. But my reason for not wanting to play at this point isn't because of a fee or not. I just proposed an idea. Its because of the responses I got about how people only wanted to compete if they could win money, and that people only feel motivated to try because of money. I guess I was just naive the 4 years i've been playing smash thinking we all played because we liked the social aspect of it or that we had fun competing for the sake of competing. Pretty much, a community full of Darrens.

So don't take it personally or anything. Its not about implementing a fee at this point for me. Its the mindsets of some players that makes me uncomfortable is all.

 

[Hansel34]

Agree, don't you guys like that feeling, when you just utterly destroyed someone, or pulled a amazing combo. Just that feeling makes smash worth it to me. Sure we can get that from any smash fest though o.0...

Anyhow, this kinda went from a debate... to people insulting each other. Thats never good

 

[Yoshara]

Vic, you have to realise that what you have been saying is the reason why we have smashfests, so we can have casual get togethers for the sake of fun and hanging out with the community, but tournaments are ment to be a more serious show of skill, a way of testing how much everyone has improved. No one is saying that everything needs money behind it, only tourneys because that is part of what keeps them serious. We can still have smashfests and other such things for free, but we should not replace tournaments with them and vice versa.

 

[Alphicans]

Stephan is getting it right. I go to tournaments for something different. Smashfests are great for competing at a friendly level, and you can hold mini tournaments or have seriouslies, or PR matches, but a legit tournament is for some real competition, and guess what? Money makes that happen. Why are you mad at us for wanting something special?

 

[MeSSi]

hey mike wong, your diddy is good but... yea. enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU1TeT04b9A&feature=sub

 

[victra♥]

i guess i should just move to japan. Oh well.