ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!

[CT Chia]

or when they see u fly off stage they get on stage?

 

[ZOM~B]

I know that^
But if you time it so that you launch the gyro as they are leaving the ledge and they dont expect it then theyll get hit,
Plus it gets them off the ledge and possibly dead from a gimp.

Edit wait 9 and then 7?
Thats left and down...you mean 3 and 11?

Sudai was using fightan-speak

Take a look at your numpad, and "9 and then 7" makes a lot more sense.

 

[Mr.E]

I tend to go with:

i just learned to space my top so that it lands either just on the edge (like last possible pixel, you know the way) or to gently fall off

...or grab it off the ground and gently drop it over the ledge. There's no need to be risky unless there's a minute left in the match and you're down 50+, just shoot and throw crap at them until they realize they're the one at higher risk and make an attempt to get back up.

 

[Sudai]

Sudai was using fightan-speak

Take a look at your numpad, and "9 and then 7" makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, for some reason I completely missed you questioning the 9 and 7 in my other post, sorry. ZOM~B is right. Most fighters refer to directions as

7-8-9
|\|/|
4-5-6
|/|\|
1-2-3

for all the directions and a neutral because it was simple for people to look at their numpad when talking about it. I'm into a lot of fighters so I just kind of carry it over to every other fighter. Ironically enough I speak of directions in terms of a clock when referencing it outside of talking about fighters.

 

[buenob]

gently dropping it over the edge would require you to be above them, which is higher risk than throwing it across the level so it drops down and acts as a midi

--
I definitely use different lingo depending on what i'm talking about... everything in context lol... you can't just throw out a 623+LP and expect everyone to know what you're talking about (though i would expect everyone here actually does)...

 

[Deadweight]

Yeah, for some reason I completely missed you questioning the 9 and 7 in my other post, sorry. ZOM~B is right. Most fighters refer to directions as

7-8-9
|\|/|
4-5-6
|/|\|
1-2-3

for all the directions and a neutral because it was simple for people to look at their numpad when talking about it. I'm into a lot of fighters so I just kind of carry it over to every other fighter. Ironically enough I speak of directions in terms of a clock when referencing it outside of talking about fighters.

Ah IC....
I assumed you were speaking in O'clock... Its all good lol XD...
But as for what everyone has said so far :

i just learned to space my top so that it lands either just on the edge (like last possible pixel, you know the way) or to gently fall off

It loses a LOT of knock back when you do it this way cause its spinning longer and slides across the ground. At most your knocking it away from the ledge, it will get back on easily. Plus if you mis space it then you have to wait for it to despawn to try again.
---

or when they see u fly off stage they get on stage?

Getting them off the ledge is the point. If you see them get onto the stage while you go off. Shoot the gyro at them. or laser. For free dmg. Rinse and repeat. Then when you are at a higher percent plank.

gently drop it over the ledge. There's no need to be risky unless there's a minute left in the match and you're down 50+, just shoot and throw crap at them until they realize they're the one at higher risk and make an attempt to get back up.

Unless you plan to be a good distance above the pikachu when you drop it I do not reccomend this tactic. He will just U-air you 2-3 times and get back onto the ledge. And if you are a good distance above pikachu. It has time to predict the hit and dodge it accordingly. Also if the pikachu planks correctly, no amount of shooting lasers/ gyros as you suggested would remove him. You have to force him off the ledge while also being able to at the same time occupy it. My method does both of these things

 

[GwJ]

What I do is shoot the gyro so it lands right on the edge so that the Pika HAS to drop down or he'll be hit, then I just predict the fall and Bair him.

 

[Deadweight]

What I do is shoot the gyro so it lands right on the edge so that the Pika HAS to drop down or he'll be hit, then I just predict the fall and Bair him.

How? Are you on the stage when you do this? How charged is the gyro? Is the gyro just stationary on the ledge?
If its a fully charged gyro sitting on the ledge, The pikachu can continue to plank as normal as if it didnt exist. Simply because of abusing invincibility frames.
So your method isnt inhibiting on pikachus ability to reach the ledge, possibly the platform, but even then it can get off the ledge at a 45 degree angle by QA @ 7 and 1 (Using sudai mehtod of course :3)and clear the gyro easy.

 

[ZOM~B]

Sudai: What fighters do you play?

 

[buenob]

the amount you need to charge the gyro definitely depends on how far you are away from the ledge, it takes time to get used to it, and even then often it doesn't do _exactly_ what you want it to (though it does get fairly easy if you focus on it long enough)

the gyro obviously is a stationary hitbox, so if you land it exactly on the edge, 2 things happen... if they stay on the ledge, once the invincibility wears off, they will get hit and fall from the ledge and secondly, if they try to fall->jump->aerial to get back on, they will hit the top...

because it's your top and the hitbox is large, they can't z-catch it (must either do an aerial or an actual dodge to pick it up... also, i'm not sure this 100% true) so if you follow your top when you throw it, and space yourself to punish their attempt to pick up your top (which must be laggy, and won't be pressuring you), they pretty much need to drop down and deal with it (either by hitting it away or just snapping back to the ledge)

this is where "predicting their drop" comes in, since it's pretty much the only "safe" option for them, lots of people become predictable at this point... by itself, it's not much, but it eliminates so many of the opponents recovery options that it's easy to see what they're doing, and often times by correctly spacing yourself behind the top, they have no options at all

hope this helped

--
and i know this won't immediately KO my opponent, but it's a no-risk/med-reward situation, which is just better than a med-risk/high-reward... and the weak top hit often leads to their frustration/despair, not to mention it leaves them right in laser/top zone

and rob is the one character that always has options against plankers... watch their timing, and make the top drop below the ledge as they're trying to get back to it... i know pika can get back with 7/9 but he's gotta be spaced for that, and if he waits too long (goes too low) you can steal the edge from him... if he consistently does it properly, you know exactly where he's going to be, short hop and lazer him when he's furthest away from the edge...

planking is silly in concept... you're basically using a low pressure pattern to stall the match... against a lot of characters, yeah that will work... not against rob

 

[Sudai]

So, Bue said almost -everything- on the topic I wanted to say except one thing.

Dead, if you think that them getting on the stage means a few laser/gyro, you're wrong. They see you jump off they simply stand onto the stage (fastest way to the ground) and powershield whatever you shoot at them while they move to the other side of the stage. Not too hard and you just wasted a bunch of time on the clock.

Oh, and MK/GnW can still plank ROB. Falling UAir/NAir respectively knocks the top away and they do whatever to get back to the stage. MK has a plethora of options, GnW has invincibility on his Up-B and he just hate to time it on your BAir. I think DK actually can still plank ROB too since his Up-B has 3 frames of invincibility and it only takes him 8 frames to grab the ledge from his Up-B, so that leaves 5 frames of vulnerability and they can mix that timing up so chyeah. :x

Sudai: What fighters do you play?

Most of the Guilty series, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart, BlazBlue(Kind of. Just barely getting into it and I've yet to buy it) and a lot of old school Tekken. I was into DoA at one point but don't play anymore and I've recently gotten a bit into MvC2. I'm not sure if I'm going to stick to MvC2 or not,too lazy to learn the infinites. The rest are just ****ed fun.

 

[buenob]

even though dk has invincibility, his upb hits the top, and I find more often than not if I make it slide off the edge properly he will get hit with a "second" hit (kind of like how if you throw the top into wario's bike, the bike will hit it up and then the 2nd hit will hit him in the face)... and even then, it's mindgames for DK just to get back to the ledge... rinse and repeat the scenario enough times and he will get hit (unless he has epic yomi skillz)

and yeah, gnw/mk are definitely the worst, though I find that even then the same situation kind of applies from DK, only the chance of actually hitting them is way smaller... even so, if they keep it up, eventually something I do will hit them

mvc2 is epic, though only at the mid-range skill... running up against a solid MSP just makes me cry...

 

[Sudai]

I know it's possible to hit those three when they plank, but it doesn't change the fact that it's ****ed hard if they know what they're doing.

 

[buenob]

10agrees

 

[LewsTherin]

Is there a summary of the matchup R.O.B. has versus Toon Link?

What is the charge time for a laser before it does max damage?

EDIT: Who has the best matchup versus R.O.B.'s 3 counters besides MetaKnight?

 

[ipitydatfu]

its 20 seconds, and dont fall for his walls of projectile gimmicks, that'd lead to ridiculous stuff

 

[Kofu]

Alright, so I've been playing R.O.B. for a while and I've become pretty good with him. However, my playstyle hasn't changed for a while, and I've become quite predictable, and therefore I am losing.

Here are my main strategies:
-Down Throw to Up Air/Back Air/Neutral Air (it's usually DIed though)
-Laser to Gyro to Laser or some combination
-Aerial approach with Forward Air
-Nair to prevent opponent approaches
-Down Smash to punish/rack damage
-Jump off of the stage to Laser or Gyro
-Kill with Forward Smash, Neutral Aerial, or Back Aerial
-Gimp with Laser or Gyro

I use other moves, but what I have listed is pretty much all I do with R.O.B. and it's quite predictable by now. In fact, landing my kill moves has become such a problem that I often have to get them up to around 160% and then use Up Throw to kill them.

I also have problems with the following:
-Getting back to the stage after being knocked off
--This has to do partly with R.O.B.'s inability to dodge after using his recovery, but if I try to attack, opponents just wait and punish afterwards. And if I do manage to grab the ledge, it's difficult for me to get back on to the stage without getting hit again.
-Gimping opponents directly (without projectiles)
--A similar thing happens: I try to gimp them, but instead I get hit. I also can't punish if they grab the ledge.
-Approaching
--Forward Aerial is to predictable and Back/Neutral Aerial has too much lag.

Any tips on how I can improve my R.O.B.? I know it's not that I'm bad, because when I fight someone that hasn't fought me before, I can usually beat them without much trouble (and these are pretty good players mind you), it's that I'm predictable.

 

[GwJ]

BTW Lews, I hear Snake and Diddy cover his bad matchups well.

@Kofu
It sounds what you need to work on is prediction and punishment. What you said you do works, but it'll fail horribly if you can't read your opponent. ROB isn't a character with all these fancy ATs that make you "WTFBBQ". ROB's a character that you need to read your opponent and predict what they'll do. Just keep playing more people and you'll understand what your opponents commonly do which will lead you to hitting them more often.

 

[TEECO]

Kofu, I had a problem like that a while back too.

Who you play with has an effect on your playstyle.
I use to only play with my best friend and my little cousin, did the same things everymatch, and never learned/tried anything new.

Then I became active in the smash community. Went to tournaments and got wrecked, played friendlies and went to smashfests. I got a lot better.

 

[Silhouette]

Kofu: a good way to help be unpredictable is to brush up on your flashy tricks.
Tricks such as...
- B reverse/reverse tops and lasers - use these while moving away from your opponent or while off stage, or wile pretending to run jump turn and PEW right to the face, its awkward and unpredictable. also once they begin to predict this start to cancel it instead then punish once they use shield/reflector.
- dash dancing - while majorly nerfed from melee, still a neat trick, and watching a big ol robot move that quickly is very awkward. just expect to trip every once in awhile.
- pivot walking - not so much in battle but makes for a nice victory dance.
- glide tossing - once youve picked up your top this makes for a nice approach/fast attack, if theyre where they can shield your top throw it down instead into a dsmash or grab, it also makes for a nice fast getaway and you can dribble it if you go backwards, into laser if youd like.
-boost Usmash- wish rob had one....

the more awkward you can make your character the better chance you have of not being predictable, i mean really idk how many times ive been hit with nesses dash attack because its invisible/twice the range of his body. =P

add some ftilt to your main strategies, its fast and has amazing range, makes for a good approach, but mix it up with your Dtilt/neutral A/ and Dsmash for your close game.

for recovery get a top on the stage if you can and drop below the stage and use Up B with Uair to keep them away this should give you the ledge and keep them back, the top will limit their movement and might distract them giving you the time to get up or ledge hop to fair. if not then mix your up B planking with ledge hopped Fairs and lasers untill you can get off.

or if youve been hit very high and survived but theyre trying to juggle you then use Dair UpB, Dair UpB, etc... to hover until you get an opening, or just Dairs to slowly decend.

if your way off to the side use Bairs to move towards the stage faster and wasting less fuel, also once youve initially been hit off screen shoot a laser or top, they cant see your start up and wont see it coming, if you can get them with a fully charged one they will be thrown and cant ledge guard you.

always stutter your Up B, you will get the same amount of vertical distance out of it and save fuel. do this by pumping the button instead of holding it.

just generally try to have fun with the game and your character, i always find that when im having fun/feeling good i play way better and am less predictable.

 

[buenob]

Kofu: a good way to help be unpredictable is to brush up on your flashy tricks.

a better way to be unpredictable is to both fully incorporate every one of robs moves (including side-b) and to force them to be more predictable

I mean this in the best way possible, but a lot of what silhouette said will temporarily make you a "better" player in the sense that you will beat people who used to think you were predictable, but only because you're breaking your patterns... in the long run, a lot of that will leave you more open, and if you stick with a style like that you'll miss a lot of opportunities, and if you try those tricks against a solid MK, you _will_ lose a stock

Down Throw to Up Air/Back Air/Neutral Air (it's usually DIed though)

do they always di it the same way? always immediately air dodge? depending on how they react, I have started to incorporate ftilt angled up, fair, and _definitely_ usmash into the follow up game for my down throw... make them affraid of the usmash, so that they will immediately jump, then you can land your uair... they're affraid of the uair? the immediate attack will eat an usmash...

Laser to Gyro to Laser or some combination

perfect mindgames definitely keep this up... my one suggestion would be that once they have your "timing" down, start varying it by about a quarter to a half second on the lasers, and angle it up/down to shield poke if you can... for the top, i can't count how many times my I train my opponent to expect laser->top, then I shoot a laser and just charge my gyro a bit, let their shield eat itself a bit, and then shoot their feet with the top... even if they do block it, their shield will be so small (and enough time has passed for your laser to recharge) you can almost always hit their feet/head with another laser... or fair/ftilt/nair/dash attack or just start chargin' another gyro... remember, you have options that hit them, they don't have options to hit you, they have to start spacing themselves to be able to land one of those options... if you frustrate them with the laser/top, 95% of the time when they do get close enough, they only have one option to attack, and since they only have the one option it's extremely predictable, and you can punish with robs close game

Aerial approach with Forward Air /n Nair to prevent opponent approaches

good basics, but fair can prevent approaches if you just short hop up, and nair is a great approacher if their shield is low (it will poke)... if they're extremely defensive, bair also pokes shields really well and you can fast-fall it to auto cancel and follow it up with either robs short game... this is risky though, and I really mean if they are _extremely_ defensive try this... but it is a medium-risk/high reward situation, so it's not _ bad_ (there are better, like just jumping away and gyroing them)... when you fair to approach do you always move forward? do you double fair? single fair to projectile? fair bair?... sh fair - fast fall - dodge to land? full hop fair?... mix it up just because it's a solid move doesn't mean you have to use it in the same way every time

Down Smash to punish/rack damage

dsmash is actually a pretty good ko move... once they're at rediculous percents... this goes in together with you not landing KO moves, but you shouldn't worry about that... just keep hitting them with a variety of moves, keep your ko moves relatively fresh, if my opponent is at 200%, i'd gladly land another laser hit on them... it limits their options and refreshes my ko moves... remember, you got them to 200% by hitting them, there's no real reason to change your playstyle to KO them....

Jump off of the stage to Laser or Gyro

i would get rid of this entirely, except against d3... really, there's no reason for someone to be able to pressure you off the stage except that big ***** penguin... I think once you start incorporating more moves into your style, you'll find yourself naturally going to this strategy less

as for your ledge guarding, I think you're just standing too close... when they're off the stage, stand right at the edge and projectile spam / make them afraid of fair/dair/bair options... once they're on the stage, you should be slightly inside ftilt range (taking into account their character width if the're standing right on the edge) so that you have a tonne of options, and they have to move (a gyro will hit them off the ledge, same with laser) and have no way of either hitting you, or getting out of a zone where you _can_ hit them...

hope this helps

anyone - feel free to flame me if I'm wrong i need to learn too

 

[-LzR-]

So what is the percentage that I should pummel again? Sry for a badly made question, but like if my opponent has 100% how many times can I pummel him without the fear of breaking. And with how many % does it increase?

 

[Sudai]

It all really depends on how fast your opponent can mash. Over time you'll learn the average time for each player to break out, then over more time, you'll learn to determine how fast someone can mash out purely by listening to their controller.

I can personally mash out after 2-3 hits around 100% but I can guarantee that most opponents won't mash that fast.

 

[TEECO]

Im not sure about this, but I read somewhere that for every 25% its a pummel.
Some people go crazy when they're being grabbed though.. and break out mad quick.

 

[Sudai]

Im not sure about this, but I read somewhere that for every 25% its a pummel.
Some people go crazy when they're being grabbed though.. and break out mad quick.

You say going mad, I say calculated button pressing for maximum speed.

Rotate joystick as fast as possible. Each of the cardinals and each of the primary directions knock off 8 frames. Every full rotation knocks off an extra 8 frames. Each button (including shoulders) knocks off 8 frames. Flicking the C-Stick* knocks off 16 frames.

*The C-Stick requires that it is returned to the neutral position before registering another hit.



Soooo, rotate joystick, mash L/R/Z, move your right hand (I tend to slide from X > A > B and then flick the C-Stick with my thumb during this motion because why not) to run over all the buttons with all 4 fingers and use the mashing motion to flick the C-Stick with your thumb.

It's easier to just show people the (alleged) best method, but I'm too lazy to make a video and upload it.

 

[TEECO]

Lol

What I do is spin the Joystick and the C-stick. Thats it.
Ill use your advice Sudai.

 

[hat!]

How big is R.O.B.'s DAir spike hitbox?
and how do you momentum cancel with him?

 

[TEECO]

-Its kinda big lol.

-Fair is his fastest airial. But a new method is being worked on "It's actually Fastfall Fair > Side B" yesz

 

[GwJ]

It's actually Fastfall Fair > Side B

And the hitbox I think extends to about halfway between the stand the the arms. But there are two other hitboxes near the top of the spike hitbox. One of them has very small knockback and doesn't spike; the other hitbox is a strong upwards knockback one.

 

[buenob]

lol i played a bunch of sf3 and xmen vs sf, and i tell you, mashing to get out of grabs is _fundamental_ in those games, so in brawl I definitely mash like a beast... thank you for the frame data though didn't know that stuff

and yeah, if you're not mashing, you're not doing it right lol... rob shouldn't be affraid of aerial release comboz, so hitting the x/y buttons should be a-ok

 

[Fraser]

What are my best momentum cancel moves for getting hit off in each direction? I've been using dair for meteor smashes, bair when i get hit off the side but I don't know what to use for get hit up. Also i've seen many pros using fair for the horizontal stuff is it really better than dair?

 

[stingers]

Fastfall Fair is always the best, Horizontal or Vertical.

If you get spiked, you should be jumping...I don't think Dair will do anything there. If it does, then I had no idea <.< but Jumping is always the best option.

 

[Sudai]

If you get spiked, don't use an aerial. There's no true spikes in Brawl, they're all meteor spikes which means you should jump out of them so you can meteor cancel them. Learn the timing to Meteor cancel, it's very good to know.

As for anything else, Fast Fall FAir is the best option. If you risk dying off the side, FFFair > Side B. If you're dying off the top, FFFAir > BAir. The bair is to change the shape of your character model so that it takes longer to hit the top blast zone.

 

[Fraser]

thanks mabey thats why I was getting Kod'd at such low percents both verticle and horizontal wise(an ike killed me at 60 percent )

 

[GwJ]

Ike's will still kill you at 60 percent if you're stupid enough to get hit by Eruption or Fsmash.

 

[Shress]

I'm just curious of what other better(er) ROB players configure their controls to.

I've noticed that a second jump from burner -> aerial is much more difficult to pull off with tap jump on. Any of you actually turn off tap jump when playing (competitively) with ROB? I mean, the benefits I see from it is an easier second jump and your ability to spam Utilt without worries.

I play friendlies a lot, and usually I just don't bother changing to custom names/controls.

 

[Syde7]

I turn tap jump off.

Sometimes, depending on how I feel, I'll map L to jump (mostly for some other chars I play as, and I'll forget to switch tags) which helps pivoting a robo-burner from the ground, as well as occasionally mapping "Z" to jump. But, other than that- pretty standard stuff.

 

[Sudai]

Tap jump off. Nothing more. Been like that since the beginning of Brawl. I can deal with it on, but I'd rather not have that one more thing to worry about, especially since I feel saving your double jump for after your Up-B is a good idea with ROB. yyyeeeaaahhhh

 

[GwJ]

Tap Jump on for me. I've played long enough that I never mess tilts up and I can go from burner to doublejump > Aerial perfectly every time. Any setup works, you just need to be good at it.

 

[Lord Chair]

Does ROB's dair count as an autofastfall when c-sticked during vertical knockback?

Or do you really have to use another aerial?