ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!

[Overswarm]

I could argue that you are many times better then your opponents.

Much like M2K in Jersey.

That's what I thought too at first, but Anther, Bloodhawk, Kishsquared... well, the entire Ship of Fools really can all hold their own. The MW is pretty well rounded considering our character variety.

 

[Mr.E]

Also you are right. ROB is not bad. But it's all a matter of perception. I could argue that in a tournament setting all that matters is the characters that win the most.

In this regard Marth and R.O.B don't even matter.

Only MK, Snake, and Dedede would matter.

Dedede more like M2K. >_>

And I stick by my assertion that Snake is overrated. Nonetheless, what does it say of ROB who is a good character in his own right and is arguably the single hardest matchup for the otherwise "best" character in the game?

ROB > Snake > MK > ROB

Mmm hm! And **** Dedede.

 

[omegawhitemage]

Dedede more like M2K. >_>

And I stick by my assertion that Snake is overrated. Nonetheless, what does it say of ROB who is a good character in his own right and is arguably the single hardest matchup for the otherwise "best" character in the game?

ROB > Snake > MK > ROB

Mmm hm! And **** Dedede.

Snake is NOT overrated at all. Overused, yes, but he is the singles best character in the game. Weight, strength, priority, all of his moves kill really...how the hell can you think he's overrated? You've clearly never played agaisnt a good one before if that's the case.

 

[Overswarm]

Snake has some of the strongest strengths, but also some of the biggest weaknesses.

Unfortuantely for those playing against Snake, it's easier for you to overcome your character's weaknesses than it is for your opponent to overcome his strengths.

 

[JawaJedi]

I haven't played any good snakes, but I don't have much trouble with snake coms.

 

[Overswarm]

I haven't played any good snakes, but I don't have much trouble with snake coms.

Yeah.... telling people about your computer battles is about as good for you as telling a group of high schoolers that you don't drink. Trust me, I told them that all through high school and they thought I was a space cadet and people act the same way here when you tell them you play computers.

Keep it a seek rat.

 

[JawaJedi]

Yeah.... telling people about your computer battles is about as good for you as telling a group of high schoolers that you don't drink. Trust me, I told them that all through high school and they thought I was a space cadet and people act the same way here when you tell them you play computers.

Keep it a seek rat.

Uh..ok. o_o Btw, I made the thread.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Also, a cool trick against Marth: if he uses his second jump (which you can force with lasers), fall off the edge and follow his descent and shoot your gyro. If you get the spacing right, there's nothing he can do but air dodge into your fair.

Or he could counter the gyro.

 

[Mr.E]

Snake is NOT overrated at all. Overused, yes, but he is the singles best character in the game. Weight, strength, priority, all of his moves kill really...how the hell can you think he's overrated? You've clearly never played agaisnt a good one before if that's the case.

Suffice it to say, Snake has a mediocre air game at best, an easily gimped if not lengthy recovery, and has trouble with any character that can force him to approach. Even if his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses in general, certain character and stage CPs easily exploit them.

On the other hand, MK's biggest weakness is... he's light. It's a simple fact that he dies sooner than most other characters but there's no real way to "exploit" it in the same way as Snake's weaknesses except to use chars with strong KO moves. Almost all of his attacks are virtually lagless and he's well-protected by his disjointed hitboxes and surprisingly long range. He has no bad stages and only a couple of borderline "bad" matchups. I feel similarly about G&W, without the lagless moveset.

In time, I believe Snake will leave behind his throne and simply be a high tier, Top 5 character or so... assuming Snake stops making up 50% of every tournament.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Suffice it to say, Snake has a mediocre air game at best, an easily gimped if not lengthy recovery, and has trouble with any character that can force him to approach. Even if his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses in general, certain character and stage CPs easily exploit them.

As for Snake's recovery, 90-99% of the time Snake will recover so high, you will be lucky if you can harass him.

 

[Overswarm]

Or he could counter the gyro.

Because that wouldn't be incredibly laggy at all >_>

The idea is to force them to kill themselves, or to force them to air dodge from which you can fair them (whihc will kill them if they are at a decent %).

It's got limited usage, but it's a fun trick.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Actually, countering has less lag (or at least less likely to kill oneself with) than airdodging.

 

[Mr.E]

Counter comes out a little slower than an Air Dodge and Marth loses a little altitude during the ending lag, but it's pretty good if he has distance to spare. You gotta watch out for Dolphin Slash's invincibility frames too if he's fairly close to the ledge. :/

As for Snake's recovery, 90-99% of the time Snake will recover so high, you will be lucky if you can harass him.

He's still quite vulnerable while falling back down to the stage and two of Snake's toughest matchups, Pikachu and ROB, have no trouble hitting him up there.

 

[Emblem Lord]

OS you are easily best in your state and more or less best in your region. And the character you main is superior to the other good players mains in your region.

 

[DRaGZ]

Snake on Skyworld is hilaaaaaarious.

I wish more tournies allowed Skyworld. My God it's so much fun.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Counter comes out a little slower than an Air Dodge and Marth loses a little altitude during the ending lag, but it's pretty good if he has distance to spare.

If it comes out slower it's not much, counter comes out ridiculously fast. The nice thing about counter is it's a momentum alterer so you stall a little, so you can make back to the edge much easier.

He's still quite vulnerable while falling back down to the stage and two of Snake's toughest matchups, Pikachu and ROB, have no trouble hitting him up there.

This is very true, but I don't think it effects Snake's positioning on the tier-list as much as we would all like it to.

 

[Mr.E]

Counter comes out in 5 frames and I believe all air dodges are 2 frames, if anyone else can double-check/confirm with me.

And don't get me wrong, Snake is obviously still a great character. I just believe that his exploitable weaknesses and counterpicks will at least bump him from the throne he currently sits on. If you will, I'd liken him to Melee Sheik -- started out Top Tier, but still didn't dip below Top 5 even when Fox and Falco's technical abilities were tapped out and surpassed her.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Don't turn this into a Marth vs ROB debate guys.

 

[Overswarm]

This thread is basically a ROB community frat house where I sit on a throne and sip wine from a cup until someone asks a question. It's a lovely sort of chaos that exists so anything can be created on a whim.



But now, I have a question.

ROB mains....

When you are sent flying and do an attack, you stunt your momentum. You don't fly as far. You slow down.

This is most evident with Snake's dair. What more of ROB's slows him down the most? What helps him survive the longest? I've never been sure, and this would be very helpful to us.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Counter comes out in 5 frames and I believe all air dodges are 2 frames, if anyone else can double-check/confirm with me.
.

Yep, your perfectly right, but at 60 frames a second, it isn't that huge of a difference. Honestly, I really like the tactic Overswarm thought up, and if I mained R.O.B., I would be practicing it right now. I just don't think that Marth is the best victim for this tactic.


As for Snake, who knows, only time will tell. I hope your right though.

 

[Overswarm]

It works on a lot of people, but Marth has been one of the best.

Basically, if you have a fully charged gyro and fall with them off the edge, you can shoot it at the right time to prevent them from getting back.

Snake always gets hit, but he just up+b's again and gets back most of the time. Besides, you never get to do it because the only time you can do this is if you hit them far enough away to make them have to use their second jump (you jump with them to continue falling at their speed if you need to), and Snake's always recover high in that circumstance.

The best part about it isn't hitting with teh gyro though. That is easily dodged by air dodging and fast falling. The problem is that ROB DIs towards you and just fairs to knock you back and then can pressure as he will.

 

[Mankosuki]

ROB mains....

When you are sent flying and do an attack, you stunt your momentum. You don't fly as far. You slow down.

This is most evident with Snake's dair. What more of ROB's slows him down the most? What helps him survive the longest? I've never been sure, and this would be very helpful to us.

I always try to b-air while I'm flying so it'll push me toward the stage, although it doesn't seem to stop knock back nearly as well as say Doc's down-b in Melee.

 

[Overswarm]

I generally use bair as well, but on occasion I'll use fair and I've often wondered if it was better.

 

[Wolydarg]

What more of ROB's slows him down the most? What helps him survive the longest? I've never been sure, and this would be very helpful to us.

I've always thought it was just dair if you get hit up, and bair if you got hit out.

Dair/Bair definitely feels like they save lives, I can't think of anything else that would have reason to help, maybe wavebouncing a gyro, or up-b'ing.

But logically only dair/bair should save you if you were hit, no?

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

It works on a lot of people, but Marth has been one of the best.

Basically, if you have a fully charged gyro and fall with them off the edge, you can shoot it at the right time to prevent them from getting back.

Snake always gets hit, but he just up+b's again and gets back most of the time. Besides, you never get to do it because the only time you can do this is if you hit them far enough away to make them have to use their second jump (you jump with them to continue falling at their speed if you need to), and Snake's always recover high in that circumstance.

The best part about it isn't hitting with teh gyro though. That is easily dodged by air dodging and fast falling. The problem is that ROB DIs towards you and just fairs to knock you back and then can pressure as he will.

Eh, it just seems like counter would be an easy way to prevent it, but you are one of (the?) best R.O.B.s around and you're in the SBR, so I guess I'll take your word for it.

 

[Overswarm]

Wolydarg, there's an actual effect to doing a move. Even moves that don't "move" your character stall you.


Counter doesn't prevent it because being hit with the gyro isn't the big deal. The big deal is forcing them to drop to a lower height, then forcing them to be faired by ROB. Most up+bs still trade hits anyway.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

All right that makes sense.

As for the up+bs trading hits, doesn't Marth have invincibility on frames 1-5?

 

[Overswarm]

As for the up+bs trading hits, doesn't Marth have invincibility on frames 1-5?

Does it matter?

If you think 5/60ths of a second of invincibility is going to save you from a hitbox that stays out for close to an entire second, you've got another thing coming

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

But Marth's up+b has an extremely rapid ascent, moving him out of the way and possibly stage spiking R.O.B.

 

[Overswarm]

But Marth's up+b has an extremely rapid ascent, moving him out of the way and possibly stage spiking R.O.B.

If there's a hitbox out, they'll trade hits.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I think we are miscommunicating, I am talking about Marth and R.O.B. below the stage at the same level. R.O.B. fairs and Marth Dolphin Slashes. R.O.B. takes the hit (because Marth was invincible) and Marth moves out of the way. Are you talking about something different?

 

[noodles]

wow this thread is moving fast today theres stuff i wanted to say but cant since im on my wii and dont want to multiqoute

 

[Mr.E]

Marth is invincible during the first four frames of Dolphin Slash, but the hitbox doesn't come out until he becomes vulnerable on Frame 5. They'll trade hits if ROB has a hitbox over him at the time.

 

[omegawhitemage]

This is most evident with Snake's dair. What more of ROB's slows him down the most? What helps him survive the longest? I've never been sure, and this would be very helpful to us.

The fair stops you faster and less and the bair stops you slower and more. If that makes any sense. So depending on what you need in a given situation those are what you should use.

I also believe the dair stops verticle momentum a small amount, but not enough for it to be worth it most times.

 

[Overswarm]

I think we are miscommunicating, I am talking about Marth and R.O.B. below the stage at the same level. R.O.B. fairs and Marth Dolphin Slashes. R.O.B. takes the hit (because Marth was invincible) and Marth moves out of the way. Are you talking about something different?

You've got an extremely exaggerated belief of what 5 frames is XD

If ROB shoots a gyro, marth air dodges or counters, and somehow ROB's fair doesn't hit him BEFORE he can up+b... the mere fact that it is out means that the attacks will clank. Marth's invincibility isn't around when he's moving, so if he is moving into a hitbox, he gets hit.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Marth is invincible during the first four frames of Dolphin Slash, but the hitbox doesn't come out until he becomes vulnerable on Frame 5. They'll trade hits if ROB has a hitbox over him at the time.

Nope, Marth is invincible until frame 5, perhaps a little longer.

Up B - 5 (but now you are invincible frames 1 2 3 4 and 5, and possibly even 6 although I'm not sure on that, where as in melee you were only invincible ON frame 5, making up B marth's new SHINE)

You've got an extremely exaggerated belief of what 5 frames is XD

If ROB shoots a gyro, marth air dodges or counters, and somehow ROB's fair doesn't hit him BEFORE he can up+b... the mere fact that it is out means that the attacks will clank. Marth's invincibility isn't around when he's moving, so if he is moving into a hitbox, he gets hit.

No, I wasn't talking about up+b'ing after countering/airdodging, I was talking about flat out up+b'ing. In the scenario you have just presented me, R.O.B.'s attack would hit Marth before he could Dolphin Slash. But if Marth's counter hit the gyro, then it would make things much more complicated for R.O.B., as the counter has ridiculous range.

And yes, I know 5 frames is 1/12th of a second.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This thread was more fun when it wasn't a Marth vs ROB debate.

Gimping is what ROB is all about. Is it really surprising that he can put characters in positions where their options are limited and he can gimp easily?

Let it go Marth supporters.

Don't wanna get gimped? Mix-up what you do, DI correctly, watch your opponent closely, and don't play dumb.

Do that and you won't get gimped as much. But even so it will still happen every so often.

 

[Mr.E]

Excuse me keeping "ROB vs. Marth" going, but does Marth's FAir or NAir swat away the Gyro?

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I doubt it, especially if it's fully charged. If it is weak, it's possible.

I didn't think it quite turned into a Marth vs. R.O.B. thread, it was more like a specific situation debate.

But, I'll let it go.

 

[null55]

Do you guys think Marth and R.O.B. could be friends if they both didn't have to fight each other?