ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!

[Silhouette]

i'm not really here complaining... i just want some advice, but everyone is just giving me one liners. forget it i guess.

San, being one of the top players, is going to attempt alot of 'bait and punishes'

You know those times when hes swinging that sword, and it looks like hes open or in lag or something, but when you get close *BAM* hes hitting you?

Its a constant technique used in top level play, but you need to pay attention to when its a bait or when you're actually able to punish him.

Also when you're onstage DO NOT actually try to hit him, especially when hes able to bring his shield out, this would be a good way to get punished. Instead, do receding attacks, and I'm mostly talking about when you might think hitting his shield with Fairs or something is a good idea. Basically jump towards him like you would and Fair so it just barely doesnt hit him, and by this time you should be DIing backwards and do another Fair as you're moving away.

Zone him. Try to stay just outside his sword range and concentrate on NOT GETTING HIT.

Walk, don't run. Walking applies more pressure on your opponent, you will also trip less and can shield at any time. You cant shield during your initial dash animation which can hurt sometimes. This is especially vital against projectile based characters like Falco or Pit.

When you're feeling pressured, like REALLY worried that hes going to hit you, and you want to roll, DONT. Just do something random, he wants you to roll or try to attack him. A good choice might be to just run away.

dont neglect your smaller moves. A common mistake is for people to mash smashes and aerials, but using your jabs when they're close instead of rolling is almost always better. EVERY MOVE has a situation its useful in, if you get some replays watch them and see what moves you dont use. Your tilts and jabs will be your best tools to keep him out. ROBs tilts are his best move to keeping people out and letting him spam.

Pay attention to when he baits airdodges. Another common tactic in high level play is to pressure someone into airdodging and punishing it afterwards. Learning mixups to getting back to the ground can be MAJORLY useful, especially for ROB who has the slowest airspeed in the game. Pay attention to how you're actually getting back to the stage.

This vid may help with that: http://www.youtube.com/user/SiLMcCloud110?feature=mhum#p/f/10/w7dKywvtpu8

and finally, abuse those projectiles. ROB can camp and spam vs Ike and keeping him at a distance is a good position where you can damage him, and he can't hit you.


This maybe some of the best advice we can give you without more specific questions or videos to work off of.

If you can record some replays you can either post them or send them to me, I'll crit them.


I would also recommend looking up some vids of other ROBs, I personally dont have anything real recent, but heres a few older ones I would recommend:
vs Sole [Lucario] 1/3
Sole 2/3
Sole 3/3
vs. Sole [ZSS]

 

[Stockfield]

Camp more. Ike isn't easy for Rob, his range is stupid. Also, never roll towards Ike, the best advice you will ever get.

Don't roll towards any character.

 

[Kaoculus]

thanks, this is all very useful!

hopefully i can get him past 100% next time lolll

btw silhouette i know that lots of what you said seems pretty basic for good players like you guys but it's a lot of stuff that I needed to add into what I do. thanksss

 

[Silhouette]

thanks, this is all very useful!

hopefully i can get him past 100% next time lolll

btw silhouette i know that lots of what you said seems pretty basic for good players like you guys but it's a lot of stuff that I needed to add into what I do. thanksss

no prob man, everyone has to learn it one way or another, and I'm glad I didn't throw out a bunch of information you already knew.

 

[Sharky]

coming from san's region, your post looks really really good. +1approval

btw hi guys I'm an ex-rob-mainer from 08 that switched to yoshi and is probably going to be playing a lot more rob in the near future, nice to meet everyone =D

edit: also has anyone here looked into the change in hitstun of rob's jab as the opponent's damage increases? I'm pretty sure it's worth a look.

 

[Kaoculus]

oh last question, is there any good way to gimp his recovery? i remember a friend of mine used ike and i baired him into a stage spike, but that doesn't seem like a very efficient way to gimp him. should i gyro/tilt instead his aether? i'm afraid that his sword outranges my tilts.

 

[Sharky]

yeah don't tilt, you will lean in too much

On some stages like F-D or smashville(?) I think, f-smash will beat it out. I'd say lasering/gyroing him on his way down is the best way to hit his aether. Always guage how low/high he is going to aether from, in general ledgehogging is not very safe but if you're absolutely 100 percent sure it will work AND you can get there in time, by all means go for it.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah I have seen Robs jab has interesting properties at higher %. After about 100% it pops the opponent up a little which puts him in a bad position. An easy grab or dsmash, just don't get predictable.

 

[Sharky]

I'm not talking about the trajectory, I'm talking about the actual hitstun/frame advantage we get at those percents, those things might actually be guaranteed at some point.

 

[-LzR-]

My point was that it pops the foe in air. He can't do aerials because he will hit ground before that and suffer lag or something.

 

[Sharky]

he can't do anything. period. he's still in hitstun until he lands unless he's at ridiculously high damage or hit by the outer hitbox (see below)>.<


also there's two different types of hitboxes on it, one from close up that sends them out a bit, and another one that just pops them up slightly that is at the outside of the jab's range

 

[ccst]

What is this "Smash lab" everyone's talking about?

 

[-LzR-]

They research stuff like framedata.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

So I haven't checked up on the ROB boards in a very very long time because I thought I was retiring.

But it turns out I'm not, so who wants to summarize all the stuff I've missed since like a year ago for me?

 

[stingers]

Wavebounce gyro cancel in the air is good for getting past ROBs huge blind spot.

I ****.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Stingers you are great

 

[sneakytako]

So I've been trying to figure out things that ROB can buffer, but I'm struggling to find anything useful. Anyone know any neat tricks with ROB and buffering?

 

[GwJ]

I like to buffer Fair when I'm being helplessly juggled.

Oh wait.

 

[stingers]

bair to dtilt is a good buffer

 

[Indigo Jeans]

he can't do anything. period. he's still in hitstun until he lands unless he's at ridiculously high damage or hit by the outer hitbox (see below)>.<


also there's two different types of hitboxes on it, one from close up that sends them out a bit, and another one that just pops them up slightly that is at the outside of the jab's range

Already been on this, but sort of dropped the project because of... laziness. And yes, the farther parts on ROB's jab1 hitbox drag the opponent towards you a bit, then the inner part of the hitbox sends them away. But I guess once I start my ROB research up again I can get a frame advantage table done.

Smash Lab != only framedata, btw. :/

Also I like Fair > BDJBair > DTilt at low percents.

 

[sneakytako]

bair to dtilt is a good buffer

Funny you said that, because I've been trying to buffer things out of bair. One of the more interesting things is that you can Up-B after you land, giving you 4 frames of invincibility XD.

 

[stingers]

too bad we cant attack immediately out of up b or it'd be useful =[

 

[sneakytako]

Srsly, but if you need to attack quickly then you just buffer a jump. The buffered Up-B is for when people are trying to punish ur landings, then they Q.Q because they don't expect an Up-B and you nair them in the face XD. I haven't really got it to work though lol

But out of bair, it can really create strange momentum if you can wavebounce/RM or w/e the Up-B.

 

[stingers]

i mean using the invincibility on the up-b lol

up-b through nado and punish? yeahuhh

 

[sneakytako]

I wish our up-B beat tornado so bad T.T

 

[ChocoNaner]

Does Rob really beat Marth? Like, does he has a significant advantage over him? It's boring having to camp him with Diddy so I was thinking that maybe planking him or camping him with Rob would be better and more fun. :B

 

[stingers]

no its dead even lol.

 

[ccst]

I don't think so, Marth has a slight advantage over R.O.B..

 

[-LzR-]

Care to tell us why you think otherwise when everyone else agrees, including me?

 

[Cubone]

I keep seeing the mention of invincibility on upb... when is it? The first 4 frames?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

The only reason I can see for giving Marth a slight advantage over ROB is so we can say, "Oh well your character just has an advantage over mine" when we lose on one of those high percentage last stock situations.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

No ccst, Marth/ROB is dead even. ROB has projectiles, but Marth has priority. Both have great range. Marth beats ROB aerial onstage, but ROB beats Marth aerial offstage. Marth has more KO options, but ROB has better maneuverability. It's basically a rock-paper-scissors matchup.

 

[Mr.E]

Most Marth players, and random people who don't play the match-up at all, say ROB ***** Marth IIRC. Marth and ROB players are the worst when it comes to believing they are terrible in every match-up despite both being strong upper-tier characters...

 

[-LzR-]

I really like Rob vs Marth MU. It really is even. I heard it's the most even MU in the game if you leave out dittos. He beats in air, we beat in ground. So it's even since the match has this spacing fest going on. Also both gimp each other easily.

 

[Silhouette]

ROB wins imo. We win the projectile game, forcing him to approach, therefore he will be attempting to space Fairs on you. Walk, dont run, to space away from him, and pay attention to his approaching pattern. Throw Fairs, and Ftilts, to interrupt his pattern, and it will annoy the Marth greatly, causing mild rage and a drop in his concentration. Once he is mad, he will leave many more openings in his approach, giving you a way to knock him offstage. and imo he is one of the easyest characters to gimp.

ROB 55:45 Marth.

 

[-LzR-]

Your MU stuff is pretty player specific instead of focusing on the characters.
Marth doesn't "get mad", but the bad player controlling him might.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Sil, remember that while ROB technically does win the projectile game, he by no means forces Marth to approach through this. Keep in mind the predictability of ROB's projectiles, and how easily they can be either powershielded, or simply batted away with a well timed FTilt. The only time projectiles are going to come in handy are if they're spamming like crazy, leaving them open in lag, or as they try to recover, but as we already established, ROB wins the offstage game. Glidetossing your Gyro isn't too bad of an idea, especially a reverse glidetoss at relatively close range.

Marth can in fact countercamp your projectile camping, so if this does happen, you should take the risk and approach. But apply pressure through shorthop weaves and walking. That way you can shut down any attempted interruptions with an easy powershield or upwards tilted FTilit.

Again, this matchup is so dead even, it's just a waiting game, seeing who makes the first slipup.

 

[Silhouette]

Your MU stuff is pretty player specific instead of focusing on the characters.
Marth doesn't "get mad", but the bad player controlling him might.

LOL that was a joke, but annoying your opponent is a legit way to throw them off their game.

and Indigo you should only approach if you're losing and he is counter camping and P-shielding everything.

 

[Cubone]

Again... what frames do we get the invincibility on during upb?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, that's when I said you should approach... when he's PSing/countercamping. But you've got to have initative to win in this matchup. You can't let it stalemate. If you're on even stocks, you should approach. But of course, if you're a stock ahead, or even same stocks 80% lead, then you can just try to wait it out.

Cubone first four frames of UpB have invincibility.