Religion: what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Huah!

[cultofrubik]

Wow, this thread is getting pretty lame. Bashing each other left and right to voice your opinions. We have different views. Life is going to be that way, so start to accept that.

Whether Religion or Science, God or no God, we all share this Earth. Our children and their children will share it likewise. Our focuses in life should revolve around humanity as a whole, with our views and principles a way to help civilization. If this is a test, than get an A+, and help to better society as a whole while doing so. If you aren't helping out society, then you're failing in God's eyes anyways, because not helping out the rest of your neighbors on our little blue planet is selfish unto itself. If this is just existence, and life is just life, sucking and painful [and blah-blah I like to complain about people], then you should try to make our short time here easier for the next generation, as that generation should do for the next.

Just the same, suicide in itself is pointless, because it's taking yourself out of this world and removing all chances from helping the subsequent generation. Yes, we all take from others in some sort of fashion, but that shouldn't keep us from being generous. Don't be selfish or self-indulged.

Make yourself useful. Give a little. And by doing so, prove your own beliefs by selflessness to the rest of the world.

~cult

Remember that complaining doesn't get anywhere. Actions do. Prove that you're right by making the world a better place. Otherwise your "truths" mean nothing anyways.

[So far, God is winning. You wonder why those little kids said God bless you when you helped them out? Or why that Salvation Army guy says that? Because whether he exists or not, he resembles a higher order. He is the "person"ification of morality, an entity of righteousness. And no offense or anything, religious people have done more good for the world than those who believe in no higher order. Quit b****ing and do your fair share. Otherwise you're always going to be wrong.]

 

[commonyoshi]

God never created sin. Sin is the lack of godliness which was brought upon by free will.

There are many hypothetical answers as to why God would creat people in the first place, or why He created us with free will. (of course, we cant fathom God's mind so these are just guesses) Most believe that He desired something to love and share His power with. Some people counter that by asking why God would want to create anything in the first place if He was perfect. Was God not truely perfect then? I cant see the logic in how love for others is a weakness, but that's just me. The whole question and answer is completely subjective.

Going with the whole "God created people whom He could love" thing, it is a logic step to want the people you care and provide for to love you in return. We've had this conversation already over PM. I asked this the first time, and I'll ask it again. If you had a magical love potion to force the girl you loved to love you back, would you use it? Would it be real love? No, free will is needed for love to exist.

And I've had this whole "why does hell exist" conversation with a lot of people already. We know absolutely nothing about world after physical existence. The Bible tells us our souls are eternal. Maybe our souls just need to go somewhere when we die, and heaven or hell are the ultimate destinations for our souls. Maybe we cant go to heaven because of our sin so we go to hell instead. (I'm just making this up) We dont know.

Edit: Blankuser, I disagree with just living life happily on earth. Most religions state that the earth is a mere speck. Eternity is everything. If so, should we not spend our time on earth reaching towards things which last forever?

 

[Tryptomine]

And no offense or anything, religious people have done more good for the world than those who believe in no higher order.

I... I don't even know where to start, seriously. You try to come off fair and "everyones different, that's fine" but always **** it up somehow by showing your bias.

 

[Zink]

it's ON, jammer. on like donkey kong!
I'm not gonna make a quote wall cuz those are ugly. But I invite you to put up what you believe are our "wacky ceremonies". Feel free to also add where you see us to have randomly changed stuff around that contradicts the Bible. In fact, don't stop there: go ahead and justify relying only on the Bible for your morality.
Nobody likes a Catholic. That's cuz nobody KNOWS a Catholic. At least three quarters of what I see in the thread about the Catholic faith and doctrine are outright false. For example, some guy thought the Pope was God's substitute, or something. Seriously, what the heck? Do we look that stupid to you? The Pope is the sucessor to St. Peter. Can you PLEASE at least read the Catholic Catechism's words about an issue before you post? Good grief, even though we go way way way out of our way to help people understand exactly, to the letter, we believe in, it is STILL misquoted, lied about, misinterpreted, and twisted around!
Sorry, but this is probably the single most irritating thing in my entire debating career: people not knowing the Catholic view and making it up based on false assumptions.
PS: at krystal thinking **** is ok?

 

[cultofrubik]

I... I don't even know where to start, seriously. You try to come off fair and "everyones different, that's fine" but always **** it up somehow by showing your bias.

It's one thing to have your own opinions and voices, but it's another to spend your life always try to disprove the other. My statement is saying that if you're Atheist, then quit worrying about people who are religious and start doing something to better humanity. Stop complaining that "oh noes other people have different opinions and they happen to voice them," and start doing something that helps out the world as a whole. Likewise religious people should also help the world as they carry out their religion.

Most Atheists, from my own experiences, complain more than they do anything else.

I'm challenging Atheists to carry out actions to help society and I don't know, prove why it's okay to not have religion?

Of course I'm biased. Does it really matter that I am biased? Yes I'm raising a challenge, but that doesn't mean I don't have toleration. I have my own opinions, don't you?

 

[RDK]

If you had a magical love potion to force the girl you loved to love you back, would you use it? Would it be real love? No, free will is needed for love to exist.

Yeah, but back to the point of my post: the concept of "love", including all of its aspects and implications, was created by God Himself. Why did he create something like that, instead of creating something superior? What I'm trying to say is that supposedly with the Christian God, he is all-powerful, correct? Then there is no need to create a free-will system like that, where the only alternative is a "robotic" love without any actions involved.

Again, hard to convey my points, but I can't think of a more concise way to put it.

P.S: Where the hell is Eorlingas when you need him?

 

[Zink]

Yeah, but back to the point of my post: the concept of "love", including all of its aspects and implications, was created by God Himself. Why did he create something like that, instead of creating something superior? What I'm trying to say is that supposedly with the Christian God, he is all-powerful, correct? Then there is no need to create a free-will system like that, where the only alternative is a "robotic" love without any actions involved.

Again, hard to convey my points, but I can't think of a more concise way to put it.

P.S: Where the hell is Eorlingas when you need him?

RDK, I don't know about the others, but for us Catholics, we don't pretend to understand the answers to the Big Questions like that. I mean, you could try to figure it out, and often we debate it for fun, but there's no real way of knowing, is there?

 

[Jammer]

But, at least IMO, the fault of logic lies here: why did God create the rules of the universe that He created? He didn't have to create something like "free will". He could've created a perfect universe, without anything like sin or a lack of His presence.

Most of you probably won't understand what I'm trying to say here, as it's hard to convey ideas like this over the internet.

I think you did a fine job, and I get exactly what you're saying.

What's the point in God making us? It's not like he needs people to love him by their own choice (I'd think he isn't insecure, right?). I've always wondered about that.

it's ON, jammer. on like donkey kong!
I'm not gonna make a quote wall cuz those are ugly. But I invite you to put up [what you believe are our "wacky ceremonies". Feel free to also add where you see us to have randomly changed stuff around that contradicts the Bible.

Didn't you promise to show me something about how the Catholic banning of contraceptives is justified? Don't forget that, please.

Well, this is the relevant Wikipedia article. This article, I have to warn you though, is horrible--it's been manipulated by both pro-Catholic and anti-Catholic people, and the pro-Catholics seem to be winning.

Yeah, after reading that article, I've realized it's a piece of crap. Just like the "Criticism of Windows Vista" article, Wikipedians for some reason think that criticism articles need to be perfectly balanced, thus leaving out many criticisms but including ******** rebuttals.

Well, here are the main things, as far as I can remember. It's not like I've done research into Catholicism to find out everything I could for how it's wrong. This is just off the top of my head, and I'm certain to think the Catholic Church does some things that it actually doesn't.

• The Vatican and Pope (no central authority in the Church)
• The whole saint system (every Christian is a saint, and none is better than another)
• Praying through saints to God (only pray through Jesus)
• Papal infallibility (we all know many Popes have made mistakes, and it just seems silly that Catholics seriously think that the Pope is infallible when he makes his special announcements about things)
• Sexual abstention by clerics (the Bible says elders need to have children who have grown up in the Lord)
• Bishops, Archbishops, and the rest of that system (the only members of the Church set apart were the elders, which performed a very different function)
• No sex for pleasure (God knows that sex is great fun; it's one of His gifts to us, probably to make marriage nicer)
• No use of contraceptives (still waiting on your rebuttal, Zink)

Those are the main ones. I'm sure I missed a couple, though. I won't get into things like the priests sexually abusing children, because that sort of thing obviously isn't part of the religion.

And just so you know, most of my extended family is Catholic. In fact, my immediate family is the only part of it that isn't.

Food for thought, I guess. I suppose that if I have time, or if you contest these things, I'll go scrounge up some verses from the Bible. Cheerio.

 

[RDK]

RDK, I don't know about the others, but for us Catholics, we don't pretend to understand the answers to the Big Questions like that. I mean, you could try to figure it out, and often we debate it for fun, but there's no real way of knowing, is there?

That's exactly what I don't like about modern day religions--especially Christianity. I don't want to subscribe my entire life to something like that when it is ultimately without proof. I don't want to be a mindless sheep that believes something just for the sake of believing, because it JUST MAY BE RIGHT.

I think you did a fine job, and I get exactly what you're saying.

What's the point in God making us? It's not like he needs people to love him by their own choice (I'd think he isn't insecure, right?). I've always wondered about that.

Thanks. Glad we're on the same page.

After actually thinking for myself back in the days when I attended a Christian high school, I pondered a lot of stuff like that. Looking back, I really wished I would have thrown some of them at my Christian teachers.

And just so you know, most of my extended family is Catholic. In fact, my immediate family is the only part of it that isn't.

Wow, are you serious? That's so weird, because that's exactly the case with me.

Coming from a family of mostly Italians, everyone is by default Catholic. And by Catholic, I mean "go to church every Christmas" Catholic. Only my parents and siblings are mainstream Christian protestants.

Wild, huh?

 

[cultofrubik]

That's exactly what I don't like about modern day religions--especially Christianity. I don't want to subscribe my entire life to something like that when it is ultimately without proof. I don't want to be a mindless sheep that believes something just for the sake of believing, because it JUST MAY BE RIGHT.

I completely agree with you. I don't believe in God just for the sake of believing.

I'm in it for the food. Okay fine, that was just silly. I believe because I have decided to do so after pondering and wondering what I find to be truth. Going to Church on Sundays is a way for me to put remind me of my Faith every Sunday, to affirm my principles, not just because I'm mindless. But sure, there are Christians who are, in fact, mindless. It's a real shame that they haven't tried to truly confirm why they have Faith. You can't have principle just to have principle, you're exactly right.

 

[Tryptomine]

It's one thing to have your own opinions and voices, but it's another to spend your life always try to disprove the other. My statement is saying that if you're Atheist, then quit worrying about people who are religious and start doing something to better humanity. Stop complaining that "oh noes other people have different opinions and they happen to voice them," and start doing something that helps out the world as a whole. Likewise religious people should also help the world as they carry out their religion.

Most Atheists, from my own experiences, complain more than they do anything else.

I'm challenging Atheists to carry out actions to help society and I don't know, prove why it's okay to not have religion?

I'm sorry? Since when were atheists not productive members of society?

Thanks for assuming that atheists do nothing but *****. Beleive it or not I (and many others I know, but I don't really want to talk for them) don't go around with a badge saying "**** CHRISTIANS," and in fact rarely voice my views. I do so here because that's the point of this discussion. Most of my family isn't even aware I consider myself atheist, because I feel no need to advertise such a thing and they have no need to pry (they range from non-practicing to devout Christians).

Of course I'm biased. Does it really matter that I am biased? Yes I'm raising a challenge, but that doesn't mean I don't have toleration. I have my own opinions, don't you?

Everyones biased to a degree, but that doesn't make it a good thing. My point is that most of your posts try to pretend to be unbiased, but come across as something like "Quit arguing so much, everyone has their own opinions and views and no one's going to change another's mind, so we should all just focus on making this a better world. Plus we all know thos ****ing atheists are idiots that don't know **** anyways, amirite?"

 

[Eor]

Prove that I'm useful to society? I do everything you do, and some of it probably better. The only difference you claim is that I don't believe in a God. If you're going to just go and lump all of us under one roof, I'm going to call you a "bigot close-minded fool who does whatever someone tells him to do". It's only fair.

Question!: If there is only one God, wouldn't someone believing in a different God technically be an Atheist in the sense that they don't believe in the real God, therefore making them worship nothing? I'm not saying that they're Atheist in the general sense of the word, but in a "practical" sense.

I'm not closely following this thread anymore, it seemed to sink into a debate over catholicism and things. So instead I'll just mention my non-faith again.

I am sicken that Atheism is one of the only acceptable things to be biased against. If someone says they think Jews shouldn't be citizens, they'll be hated and vilified, but if someone says the same about Atheist, they're elected president. Hating Atheism is not only accepted, but is supported by an entire wing of a political party. I really can't stand it. If I mention I'm Atheist/Agnostic, everyone will try to sway me. Does that happen to the Jewish or any other non-Christian people? Course not. That'd be intolerant.

And I'm sick of the idea that Athests have no morals because we have no religious book. Go back to my original comment here. If there is only one God and just Jesus, every other religion is false, and they're worshiping nothing (or "immoral" demons that have no differences in beliefs then the moral God), and therefore their religious books are nothing but things written down by people. Yet no one would say "Islamics have no morals", "Hindus have no morals", or just "Non-Christians have no morals", despite their argument against Atheism supporting all of those quotes.

 

[cultofrubik]

^^ Sigh. Tryptomine, You caught me. I noted through my own experiences: which means exactly what it says - through my own experiences. Sixteen years worth, which isn't all that much.

Stop making assumptions on my views. I'm annoyed by the hostile aspects of this thread, where people are attacking the credibility of other's opinions through near-insulting.

Just because I say religious people on the whole have done more good than non-religious isn't saying that Atheists haven't done anything good. It's saying that they've done more good, or at least that's what I know of.

You're STILL not seeing MY point either. People in this thread have brought up how they get annoyed when people "impose" their religion on them. Colino brought up how he doesn't like that Atheists are usually not seen as charitable people, like the time he gay some money to some kids that needed a bus ride. They in turn said "God really loves you." Christianity in our society is associated with charity, Atheism isn't. If you want that to change in the long run, then you need to prove that religion isn't necessary by continually being selfless without religion. Otherwise religion is going to be, on the whole, considered more correct than non-religion. Thus the 5 odd billion or so people have a religion. That is my challenge, to do something about your non-religion. My best friend doesn't believe in God. I don't call him an idiot, because he isn't. So long that you're doing something better for the world, I value your life just as much as others. That's my freaking viewpoint. Lose the assumptions.

And I'm sick of the idea that Athests have no morals because we have no religious book.

It's not that you don't have morals, but the higher chance of not having morals because of no secondary backing. It's logic. Obviously it's not a great assumption, but "if life doesn't really matter [that's another assumption, and I imagine it varies from person to person], then what stops an Atheist from from doing "bad stuff"?"

Prove that I'm useful to society? I do everything you do, and some of it probably better. The only difference you claim is that I don't believe in a God. If you're going to just go and lump all of us under one roof, I'm going to call you a "bigot close-minded fool who does whatever someone tells him to do". It's only fair.

I need some facts too. You don't do everything I do, so why the loss of a backing in that statement? If you're a productive member of society, than you're already ahead of me, as I'm not paying taxes yet.

I'm a close-minded fool why? Because I lumped all Atheists together?
Well okay, I do agree that those who don't believe in a God are a group of Atheists. I guess it is a fair thing to say, considering I only have my own sixteen years worth of knowledge. So yeah, I don't know everything or everyone's viewpoints. So I guess that could be qualified as close-minded.

 

[SirroMinus1]

Reason why i dont believe in god.
SPACE.
i don't think religion comes in nowhere. if god is not real alot of people wasted alot of time praising nothen looking like fools . if there is life after death cool. I guess >_>. he could be real but im not dead so how should i know <_<

 

[AltF4]

It's one thing to have your own opinions and voices, but it's another to spend your life always try to disprove the other. My statement is saying that if you're Atheist, then quit worrying about people who are religious and start doing something to better humanity. Stop complaining that "oh noes other people have different opinions and they happen to voice them," and start doing something that helps out the world as a whole. Likewise religious people should also help the world as they carry out their religion.

Most Atheists, from my own experiences, complain more than they do anything else.

I'm challenging Atheists to carry out actions to help society and I don't know, prove why it's okay to not have religion?

Wow.... I mean, wow. I don't suppose a list of well known and contributing scientists and engineers would be sufficient to persuade you? I doubt it. It seems like you've already decided what you like to believe and are sticking to it, regardless of what the case actually is.

The majority of engineers are described as "non-religious". Which doesn't mean Atheist, nor agnostic really. Just that they never give it much thought, and ignore the issue entirely.

On the other hand, we have christian groups making such a big fuss about the movie "The Golden Compass" and "Harry Potter" for containing witchcraft. They're actually trying to get them banned. Nevermind that whole 1st amendment thing, they want it removed.

EDIT: I agree with EOR... I should stop coming back to this thread. I don't know why I do.

 

[KingJiggyWiggy]

Has anyone in here seen a ghost?

 

[SirroMinus1]

Has anyone in here seen a ghost?

i have seen a ghost in pictures do that count =/

 

[KingJiggyWiggy]

Wow.... I mean, wow. I don't suppose a list of well known and contributing scientists and engineers would be sufficient to persuade you? I doubt it. It seems like you've already decided what you like to believe and are sticking to it, regardless of what the case actually is.

The majority of engineers are described as "non-religious". Which doesn't mean Atheist, nor agnostic really. Just that they never give it much thought, and ignore the issue entirely.

On the other hand, we have christian groups making such a big fuss about the movie "The Golden Compass" and "Harry Potter" for containing witchcraft. They're actually trying to get them banned. Nevermind that whole 1st amendment thing, they want it removed.

EDIT: I agree with EOR... I should stop coming back to this thread. I don't know why I do.

Aren't scientists a small percentage of humanity?

And as for whiny Christians, I don't really follow their Harry Potter stuff. It is one thing to watch wizardry and devils but it is another to actually warship a devil.

 

[KingJiggyWiggy]

i have seen a ghost in pictures do that count =/

Unless it wasn't Photoshop..... then I guess..... I dunno.

 

[SirroMinus1]

Unless it wasn't Photoshop..... then I guess..... I dunno.

i saw them in videos and around the web. and stuff

 

[Dojo]

Hah, well I tend to think why not believe in God.
If you're right then you live an everlasting afterlife, and if you wrong well theres really nothing.
Now if the people who dont believe are right, well nothing happens.
But if they're wrong then they spend an eternity of suffering in hell.

So why not?

 

[KingJiggyWiggy]

i saw them in videos and around the web. and stuff

Well they MIGHT be real but they sure are interesting. Now have you actually seen one in person?

 

[cultofrubik]

I'm going to apologize for the attitude in the past few of my posts. Tryptomine, you're right, I was trying to be as fair as possible, and then I let myself rant about something I should not have even brought up. Because by doing so, in ways, it appears to contradict my own viewpoints. I let myself become almost hostile, while saying that many people in this thread have been as such.

I did leave a huge hole in that statement, too. Because I completely neglected to point out the majority of medicine advancements and Enlightenment and an array of other increases in society for the positive have been brought about by mostly non-religious people. I was obviously not looking at the whole picture, in fact I must have limited myself completely too people that I know in my school right now. My guess is that I was talking about a few "goth" cliques, and not Atheists and non-Religious people as a whole.

This was the first part of an earlier post:

Wow, this thread is getting pretty lame. Bashing each other left and right to voice your opinions. We have different views. Life is going to be that way, so start to accept that.

Whether Religion or Science, God or no God, we all share this Earth. Our children and their children will share it likewise. Our focuses in life should revolve around humanity as a whole, with our views and principles a way to help civilization. If this is a test, than get an A+, and help to better society as a whole while doing so. If you aren't helping out society, then you're failing in God's eyes anyways, because not helping out the rest of your neighbors on our little blue planet is selfish unto itself. If this is just existence, and life is just life, sucking and painful [and blah-blah I like to complain about people], then you should try to make our short time here easier for the next generation, as that generation should do for the next.

Just the same, suicide in itself is pointless, because it's taking yourself out of this world and removing all chances from helping the subsequent generation. Yes, we all take from others in some sort of fashion, but that shouldn't keep us from being generous. Don't be selfish or self-indulged.

Make yourself useful. Give a little. And by doing so, prove your own beliefs by selflessness to the rest of the world.

~cult

I should have left it at that, because that is a pretty fair statement. By continuing on, however, it took away from that statement, and pretty much started a frustrating argument, apparently on my own behalf and of a few others. I was definitely NOt being logical, nor convincing. My apologies.

 

[Tryptomine]

Hah, well I tend to think why not believe in God.
If you're right then you live an everlasting afterlife, and if you wrong well theres really nothing.
Now if the people who dont believe are right, well nothing happens.
But if they're wrong then they spend an eternity of suffering in hell.

So why not?

So why not Islam? Judaism? Hindu? Shinto? Pastafarianism?

That view point only works until you remember there are other religions besides Christianity, and most don't agree with each other.

I should have left it at that, because that is a pretty fair statement. By continuing on, however, it took away from that statement, and pretty much started a frustrating argument, apparently on my own behalf and of a few others. I was definitely NOt being logical, nor convincing. My apologies.

Thank you. I must admit I'm always impressed when someone is able to show humility in an argument, since it seems to be such a rare trait nowadays.

 

[PukeTShirt]

I should have left it at that, because that is a pretty fair statement. By continuing on, however, it took away from that statement, and pretty much started a frustrating argument, apparently on my own behalf and of a few others. I was definitely NOt being logical, nor convincing. My apologies.

Kudos on that sentiment. These are the things that keep healthy discussion going. Thanks for being remarkably mature for a sixteen year old (I believe that's what you said)

I would like to point out how far off topic this has become, yet I never did get a valid response to the original post. I got lot's of answers of what religion does for individual people, but not to the world that couldn't have happened otherwise. As in, what unique things does it offer that you cannot get without it.

And also, this may be the wrong audience, but was anyone actually raised openly atheist? I was arguing the idea of bringing up children into atheism with my girlfriend, and she brought up some good points. So I'm trying to get myself to stomach the idea of (what I believe to be) lying to my future children and telling them that god exists. I want to know if i'm offering to my potential children through religion that I couldn't offer otherwise.

 

[SirroMinus1]

Well they MIGHT be real but they sure are interesting. Now have you actually seen one in person?

Idk go to an haunted house or something. but what do this have to do with the topic? lol

 

[Dojo]

well in the first post the thread maker asked why he should believe in any sort of god. now although there are many different religions with many different aspects and whatnot they still have some sort of a common goal to work for in the afterlife.

perhaps i shouldnt of used the analogy to christianity because that was a bit misleading. but theres no really denying that you have something to look forward to. now whether you have faith in what religion you choose is all up to you. nobody else can decide that for you.

 

[MegatronPwnsYou]

Smash Brothers is my religion.

 

[SirroMinus1]

Smash Brothers is my religion.

same here my brother.

 

[joeysmash]

Hah, well I tend to think why not believe in God.
If you're right then you live an everlasting afterlife, and if you wrong well theres really nothing.
Now if the people who dont believe are right, well nothing happens.
But if they're wrong then they spend an eternity of suffering in hell.

So why not?

hehehe..... thats true

 

[pikachun00b7]

Booodly doodle bop

Whoever drew that hand has no comprehension over perspective.


I already know that that is a sin. My point is that more time is spent on homosexuality than almost anything else. It is ridiculous.

Then there is little to argue about.


Assuming the nature side of the nature vs. nurture argument, why would God create a person attracted to the same sex, despite the fact that they can not act out on it? That sounds malicious to me.

No, it sounds like science. Some people are different, physically.50-60% of9(male) Homosexuals are predicted to be like that since birth. The other 40%-50% is just a fetish.(Some women may be lesbian because of a lot of androgen in their wombs, which gives male qualities. ) Anyway, why did god make ugly people? Or with a mental disability? People have different situations, what you do with them makes you who you are.


I don't, but there is more discrimination against homosexuals than those who use contraceptives, despite the fact that about 3 billion more people use contraceptives.
Exactly! Since their is less Gays, people discriminate them. Society hates the different.






No, but a lot of other people would.

Every I see a fat person screaming gospel at someone, I always just want to yell out, "Gluttony is a sin too, you fat, elitist, piece of ****."
Ummm... Ok?



Either it is or it isn't, you can't have both.

The ATTEMPTED murder is a sin. But it is just attempted.
Like beating a dead horse. But it is shooting a dead man.




If life is so awesome, how come people kill themselves?
Because they are mis guided. There is not much good reasons to kill each other.

 

[Sliq]

No, it sounds like science. Some people are different, physically.50-60% of9(male) Homosexuals are predicted to be like that since birth. The other 40%-50% is just a fetish.

Do you have any sort of evidence to support this, or did you pull it out of your butt (pun intended)?

Since their is less Gays, people discriminate them. Society hates the different.

This isn't about society. It is about the religious right going on TV and spouting hate towards the gays. Hell, even right wing POLITICIANS bring their religion into the government--where it doesn't ****ing belong--with anti-gay legislation.

Wouldn't it be more prevalent to pass anti-contraceptive legislation, considering its much greater population?

My point is that their are much bigger things for religion and politicians to worry about then the gays, but they would rather go on witch hunts then do anything ****ing productive, which is basically my point: the most important figures in our society are *******.

Ummm... Ok?

My point is that anyone that preaches to other people about their sins or their downfalls is a hypocritical *******, and it tends to be these people that I see the most.

Because they are mis guided.

Either that or their life is so miserable that they would rather not be alive.

I grow bored of this thread.

 

[Colino]

The whole atheists or religious people being more or less productive quite annoyed me..

Who cares if a certain scientist was religious or not? I sure don't. All I care about is how he contributed to humanity, and I thank that human being for whatever he/she has done, religious or not.

Also blankuser for once I must disagree with you: Morals =/= religion

If you are a religious person, your morals come from your religion. If you are not a religious person, your morals will come from somewhere else. Your religion and your morals are not the same thing. Did Hitler have correct morals? I don't think I need to answer to that.

Kudos to your aplogy BTW, I wash more 16 year olds were as mature as you

And also, this may be the wrong audience, but was anyone actually raised openly atheist? I was arguing the idea of bringing up children into atheism with my girlfriend, and she brought up some good points. So I'm trying to get myself to stomach the idea of (what I believe to be) lying to my future children and telling them that god exists. I want to know if i'm offering to my potential children through religion that I couldn't offer otherwise.

That is my intention, as soon as I decide to have children. I will try to give them the most un-biased ambient possible. They will discover religion on their own and decide to believe in one or not.

I know being completely unbiased is impossible, but I'll do my best

 

[straight8]

The whole atheists or religious people being more or less productive quite annoyed me..

Who cares if a certain scientist was religious or not? I sure don't. All I care about is how he contributed to humanity, and I thank that human being for whatever he/she has done, religious or not.

Also blankuser for once I must disagree with you: Morals =/= religion

If you are a religious person, your morals come from your religion. If you are not a religious person, your morals will come from somewhere else. Your religion and your morals are not the same thing. Did Hitler have correct morals? I don't think I need to answer to that.

Kudos to your aplogy BTW, I wash more 16 year olds were as mature as you



That is my intention, as soon as I decide to have children. I will try to give them the most un-biased ambient possible. They will discover religion on their own and decide to believe in one or not.

I know being completely unbiased is impossible, but I'll do my best

Why don't you stp worrying about "unbiased"? Worry about what's true! If God is real, then search for him. If you search for God and don't find him, then he's not there. If you never make any attempt at reaching God, you don't know if he's there or not. It's your responsibility to care for your children, and if you introduce them to God earlier in their life, you give them a step up. Or you could wait for them to do it, and slow down their growth. Asa parent, you have to be real with your child.

Your responsibility is to truth. Why don't you just pray to God and ask if he's there? He might answer. If not, go to a good church, and earnestly try to find if God is real. If you can't find him, then he doesn't exist, but if you never try, you are just being ignorant.

No offense to you, Col.


As a 16 year old, maturity is more than trying to sound smart in an argument.

 

[Xanderous]

People make the mistake of assuming "God" has to be the Christian God, the God of Abraham. However, God is whatever the hell you want it to be. I define God as whatever (or whoever) created the universe. Simple as that.

 

[Not A Naruto Wannabe]

Trust in science? why? science is limited. Religion is defined as tradition. What can be gotten from tradition? little or nothing. What can be gotten from a relationship with God? Everything.

 

[KaptKRool]

Well, I pray I'll win battles in Smash Bros.


So far, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, considering I still lose to the people that have always been able to beat me, and I still beat the people I've always been able to.




But seriously, I'm Atheist, specifically a Darwinist, and I don't see much point in prayer. It's just about the most useless thing I could think of. Instead of doing something effective, you just sit there and ask a "higher power" for something to happen.
However, I've heard tons of contradictory statements from Christians, as some say that God already has a plan of what will happen, so prayer is actually pointless, because god isn't going to change his plans for every little person who prays for something.



But I've written numerous essays, been involved in dozens of debates, and joined and began many discussions regarding the validity, helpfulness, harm, and philosophy of religion, and I just don't feel like doing it on a god ****ed Smash Bros forum, so I'll hold my tongue and stop.

 

[KaptKRool]

People make the mistake of assuming "God" has to be the Christian God, the God of Abraham. However, God is whatever the hell you want it to be. I define God as whatever (or whoever) created the universe. Simple as that.

One thing I've always pondered about is granted something did create the universe, what would have happened if whatever did create it decided not to?

Its ridiculously complex to mentally grasp, in fact, I think it might actually be impossible to understand what existence would be without the universe, because the universe IS existence.

There would be absolutely nothing, but specifically a lack of the two key components to existence, Time and Space. Energy and matter stem from space, and with space, there has to be time for that space to exist in. But what if there was no time and space? What would there be?



Of course, this just raises more questions than it answers, such as if the universe was created or has existed for infinity. Personally, I don't believe in infinity, I think everything has to have a cap, but when you get to that point, really, anybody's guess goes. Nobody knows if the universe is boundless or has ends, whether it was created or existed for eternity, and if it was created, how and what was there before it?

I doubt anybody will ever know the answers, by the time life on earth ends, I doubt we'll be any closer to knowing than we already are.

 

[Colino]

Why don't you stp worrying about "unbiased"? Worry about what's true! If God is real, then search for him. If you search for God and don't find him, then he's not there. If you never make any attempt at reaching God, you don't know if he's there or not. It's your responsibility to care for your children, and if you introduce them to God earlier in their life, you give them a step up. Or you could wait for them to do it, and slow down their growth. Asa parent, you have to be real with your child.

Your responsibility is to truth. Why don't you just pray to God and ask if he's there? He might answer. If not, go to a good church, and earnestly try to find if God is real. If you can't find him, then he doesn't exist, but if you never try, you are just being ignorant.

No offense to you, Col.


As a 16 year old, maturity is more than trying to sound smart in an argument.

sure, and maturity for you is what? Asking someone that is not religious to grow there kids as convinced god followers? NO THANKS

Read my older posts, I was somewhat religious as a kid. I did search for your God. And I've stopped a while ago.

Stop forcing your ideals on me and act like the other religious people here that I am happily debating with. And you can say "no offence" but I do take offense once you jump into my life saying how I want to raise my children is wrong, and that what I believe (or better don't believe in) is wrong and will make my kids stupid.

My responsibility is to grow my children and make sure they have a healthy life. If they want a religion, if they search hard for the answers they want and find them in religion, I certainly won't stop them.

I met the love of my life when I was 15 years old.

I am married since I was 18 years old, I live in one of the biggest and richest cities in the world, I fulfilled my dream of working in the videogame industry (and one of the most important companies at that).

I donate to charity once a month, and I feel good about it. Wether the money goes to religious people or not, I don't care as long as it helped someone.

I am a business man that loves his job and his family. I could probably not be happier than this.

And I don't believe in God.

Would you consider me a failure as a man?
I bet you do.
Why?
Because I don't belive in the same things you do.

 

[Keku]

I think there's been so much talk about religion's stance on homosexuality, that I'm getting gay-fitness ads. "The Refreshingly Gay Fitness Site!" If that's not the reason, it's kind of spooky.