Religion: what is it good for? Absolutely nothing! Huah!

[SinisterLizard]

I was referring to the church being against pre marriage sex and showing the act of sex for non procreation as a sin and a weakness. Read through everything instead of posting me bible links I could care less about. Give me your own answers, not the ones someone else wrote for your convenience.

And that brings me to another point I have against some catholics: blind faith in the bible.
As important as it may be to you, do you think it's correct to base your life on a book? Shouldn't the experiences you gain thorugh life make who you are? Or should we all follow the precise words of a book?

I'm not saying it's useles.. I have read much of the bible myself, and I find it to be a very instructing and interesting collection of moral tales and ideas, but I would never base my entire life on a block of paper, no matter what is written in it.

So, no, you don't.

 

[Zink]

You may be surprised to know that the Bible specifically and very clearly states that there should be no hierarchy in the church. There should be no centralized "government"--only individual churches which may interact with each other. Just by existing, the Vatican and the Pope violate that commandment.

not to start a sect war, but there is evidence both for and against the apostolic succession...

I'm not familiar with the Catholic religion. If they say that sex should only be used to make babies, I'd say they're wrong. That leads me to another thing about Catholics: they don't follow the Bible blindly. They hardly follow the Bible at all. They follow their "reverends" and the Vatican blindly.

Cathlolics don't have "reverends". Reverend is a title to be used when referring to any holy man on paper. As for the Vatican, there's nothing crazy in following it. Better than being fundies, eh? of course, having a figure of central authority makes Catholicism far more susceptible to criticism, because we're an easier target.

The Bible also says to pray only to God through Jesus, yet Catholics pray to "the Virgin Mary" all the time. I could go on, but it would be at the risk of offending some people and just repeating a single point.

This is a fairly basic misunderstanding... nobody ever, or should never, pray TO Mary or a saint. We ask them to pray to God for us, interceding on our behalf. The idea, I think, is that they have better street cred with the Trinity.

Christians, at least reasonable ones, don't believe that the Bible is infallible. I mean, it's been translated, passed down for thousands of years. I have a Bible right here in my house that says "Thou shalt commit murder.";

yeah, this is kind of important. The basic message of the Bible is pretty obvious and simple. The idea is only that there's nothing in there that directly contradicts that message. it's certainly not free of math errors and such... as well as the fact that taking the Bible literally leads to stuff like seventh day creationists...

 

[Jammer]

not to start a sect war, but there is evidence both for and against the apostolic succession...

This is a fairly basic misunderstanding... nobody ever, or should never, pray TO Mary or a saint. We ask them to pray to God for us, interceding on our behalf. The idea, I think, is that they have better street cred with the Trinity.

I guess I'll just sort of take your word on that first part, because it seems pretty clear to me. I wish I could remember where most of the passages are that talk about how the church should be set up--I think it's in 1 Corinthians? I forget...

Oh, I know you don't pray to Mary. You use her as an intercessor. But nowhere in the Bible does it say to do that. I believe, however, it does say to pray through the Son (Jesus). And the thing about saints: Where did you get that? The Bible says every single Christian is a saint. Where did the whole sainthood thing come from in Catholicism?

 

[Zink]

Saints kind of... evolved. Originally it was something where people would pray and have Mass at the graves of martyrs, and eventually certain people began to be recognized as especially holy with varying criteria. wiki goes into detail a bit more.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Just always wondered, why does the Bible say that those who commit suicide are sent to hell where they're eternally punished in unimaginable ways?

 

[Keku]

Take this example: The Greek word for "camel" is the same as the one for "thick yarn". There is a verse in the Bible that says that "It is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" (or something like that). Pretty much every version of Bible I know says "camel" there. Obviously, camels can't possibly fit through eyes of needles. But, thick yarn conceivably could. I personally believe that the original meaning was "thick yarn", not "camel".

While I absolutely agree on your points on Catholic faith, this one stuck my eye. Jesus is meaning exactly what he's saying.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

If I understand this part correctly, he's just using the rich man as an example. It is impossible (as he says using a metaphor) for any man to enter the kingdom of heaven. It is only possible through Jesus and his help. No man alone can do it.

That's just one view though, here's some more info for those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle

 

[NJzFinest]

Just always wondered, why does the Bible say that those who commit suicide are sent to hell where they're eternally punished in unimaginable ways?

If I'm not mistaken, suicide is the worse possible sin.

You're refusing the life God gave you, basically, mocking the effort God put into creating you.

"Hey, good, thanks for the life you gave me...but no thanks. I don't think it's worth living, you seem to of failed some where...peace!"

 

[Pluvia's other account]

But didn't he already know that they were going to do that before he gave it to them?

 

[NJzFinest]

I don't think that changes anything. All that matters is that they are not giving the credit God deserves for giving them life.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Well, it does change things really. He already knew they were going to do that, yet he still gave them life, then punished them. Sounds rather vindictive and sadistic.

And I highly doubt when people kill themselves they do it just to annoy him. I think it's because their life is no longer worth living and killing themselves is the only way out.

 

[AltF4]

I'm not familiar with the Catholic religion. If they say that sex should only be used to make babies, I'd say they're wrong. That leads me to another thing about Catholics: they don't follow the Bible blindly. They hardly follow the Bible at all. They follow their "reverends" and the Vatican blindly.

I am familiar with the Catholic religion, and you're spot on. If you ARE going to be a christian (especially catholic) I sincerely urge you to actually read the bible for yourself. The whole thing, not piece by piece. And from that reading, gather your own interpretation.


The catholic stance on sex isn't the only stupid interpretation hardly based off of scripture, oh no. Just about all sects have some of their own. Jews have some screwy ones:

1) Bible says to keep the sabbath day holy.
2) That means you're not allowed to work on sunday.
3) Cooking is considered a form of work, so no cooking on sunday.
4) In order to cook, you must light a fire. So no fire lighting on sunday.
5) Light bulbs are considered fire... sooooo...

Jews are not supposed to turn on their lights on Sunday. The really strict ones don't! They have a "sabbath goy" (non-Jewish person) that they hire to go around and do all the stuff for them that they're not allowed to.

And they got all this from "keep the sabbath day holy". Do they really think that flipping the light switch is unholy?

 

[Keku]

I am familiar with the Catholic religion, and you're spot on. If you ARE going to be a christian (especially catholic) I sincerely urge you to actually read the bible for yourself. The whole thing, not piece by piece. And from that reading, gather your own interpretation.


The catholic stance on sex isn't the only stupid interpretation hardly based off of scripture, oh no. Just about all sects have some of their own. Jews have some screwy ones:

1) Bible says to keep the sabbath day holy.
2) That means you're not allowed to work on sunday.
3) Cooking is considered a form of work, so no cooking on sunday.
4) In order to cook, you must light a fire. So no fire lighting on sunday.
5) Light bulbs are considered fire... sooooo...

Jews are not supposed to turn on their lights on Sunday. The really strict ones don't! They have a "sabbath goy" (non-Jewish person) that they hire to go around and do all the stuff for them that they're not allowed to.

And they got all this from "keep the sabbath day holy". Do they really think that flipping the light switch is unholy?

Yeah, I've heard that some Jewish people have special automatic toilets so that do all the stuff (that I'd rather not explain in detail) for you. They just zip, swoot, sit, do their thing, and the rest is up to automatics. Neat, but I think it's a bit over the top..

 

[NJzFinest]

Well, it does change things really. He already knew they were going to do that, yet he still gave them life, then punished them. Sounds rather vindictive and sadistic.

Yes, that is true. But it's hard to believe God would just only create people who will do things right so he wouldn't have to punish them. Everyone who's gone to hell, God knew of their actions and fate. Keep in mind that, of course, God indeed did create Hitler.
Say if a couple is bond to have a child who will commit suicide...I don't think he would stop the couple from having this child.
Then again, I'm not to sure about God knowing everything about what's going to happen in the future. I'm sure I'm pretty wrong and he may indeed, but then you can basically say, "why did God bother telling Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit if he knew one of them would anyways?".

And I highly doubt when people kill themselves they do it just to annoy him. I think it's because their life is no longer worth living and killing themselves is the only way out.

Oh, well yes, of course. I didn't exactly mean they simply do it to annoy him, but the fact they are doing it "annoys God."
How would you feel if you created a man who decided to throw it away the life you put in the effort of making since they think it's completely worthless. That seems pretty disrespectful to me.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Doesn't matter, we'll just be having a go at each other.

I just think it's wrong to think those who have gotten to point of suicide are immoral. I'm so glad I don't follow any religion.

 

[NJzFinest]

You don't have to be religious to believe that it's never a good choice. I know many atheist who believe it's stupid to through ones life away. Also, there is a number of religions that support suicide in some ways.

Eh, whatever. My main point is, just don't kill yourself. It shouldn't even matter what the consequences are.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

No I don't support or endorse it, just that it's not that hard to see why some people would.

 

[NJzFinest]

it's not that hard to see why some people would.

I agree 100%

 

[GOTM]

Who knows. It's impossible to tell, really.

that seriously should have ended the thread. bottom line, no one knows.

for those that beleive, let em. it helps them out and keeps their faith

for those who dont, let em. maybe they have there reasons or choose to need prove over faith. i know i do sometimes.

NO ONE KNOWS. and NO ONE WILL KNOW. EVER

 

[Marthmaster92]

Hope. Faith. Love. Life.

Am I weak minded for hoping for life after death? No, sir.

i second that.

and also, it gives people a peace that they can't get otherwise. I'm a christian, and a good friend of mine passed away this past march. he was only 19, and he died of a 2-year battle with lymphoma. Normally i would have been a basket case, but knowing that he's in heaven gave me a peace that i could never have gotten otherwise. Knowing i'll see him again and be with him for eternity is a great feeling, again, something you just can't find without the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[straight8]

Jesus Christ is awesome.
And saying no one will ever know? When the world ends or you die, you are going to see God (or you might think you won't whatever). But people who argue religion is all about not sinning are wrong. The only reason we were created was to love God and love people, that's it. It doesn't matter how much you sin, it's believing Jesus died for your sin and was raised from the dead.

I think people deny God because they are afraid of him. I also can't understand people who say religion is pointless. As a christian, the word religion kind of bothers me. Most religions are basically people trying to act as good as they can so that, when they die, they might live forever. God doesn't have a good and bad scale, and that's what religion communicates. When you believe in Jesus and trust in him, you get life in heaven. It doesn't matter if you freak out and kill a million people, a long as you agknowledge Jesus. Living a moral life is not good enough for anybody. All human righteousnness is like filthy rags, and if God kepy a record of wrongs, who could stand? Nobody...

The whole point of christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ and God. If you love God, you will want to do write things, and if you love people, you won't want to hurt them or anything.. Also, I don't know, prophecy and tongues and miracles kind of prove faith. I'm not trying to be spiritual, but how can you see someone who is almost suicidal, then they find a great youth group and have their life completely changed? That was me. My family was screwed, I hated my dad, but God was there. You can't really describe what he does.. he just sort of breaks you if you let him, but in a wonderful way. The only reason I am alive today is because of the relationship I have with my father in heaven.

Yeah.. I love my God. And no one can say there is no God. It's just truth.

 

[Eor]

If you can say that no one can say there is no God, then you have to allow that no one can say there is a God. It doesn't only work in your favor, either no one can claim a truth in the matter, or both can. I believe in the later.

 

[Jammer]

If I'm not mistaken, suicide is the worse possible sin.

You're refusing the life God gave you, basically, mocking the effort God put into creating you.

"Hey, good, thanks for the life you gave me...but no thanks. I don't think it's worth living, you seem to of failed some where...peace!"

I know we sort of ended the suicide discussion, but I'd like to come back in as a religious person who does not think that suicide will send you directly to Hell.

Would it be suicide for you to jump in front of a bullet headed for your sister, saving her?

Would it be suicide to run into a house set on fire to save the occupants, and to keep looking for them, even as you die from smoke inhalation?

If you were deathly ill with cancer, but had a chance of surviving, would it be suicide to just stop fighting for your life, and give up?

Mental illness is just as real as physical illness. I know. If someone is so mentally ill, or distraught, that they their will to live is gone, and they kill themselves, how is that different from succumbing to cancer, which is just another disease or "imbalance"?

That's why I think that suicide is not, in general, a sin.

Remember, Jesus "could have called down ten thousand angels" to save Him when He was being led to the cross to be crucified. But he didn't. He let himself be killed. He even "gave up His spirit and died" earlier than He would have if He had fought for his life.

So, before you say that everyone who takes their own life is going to Hell, please realize that it isn't a black-and-white matter.

 

[AltF4]

Because when the bible was written, suicide was a pretty black/white issue. These gray areas are valid points that are not addressed in scripture. That's why you have to draw your own conclusions instead of trying to live your life literally from the book.

I doubt god would send you to hell for taking a bullet for your wife.

 

[Colino]

Jesus Christ is awesome.

?

Yeah.. I love my God. And no one can say there is no God. It's just truth.

It's your truth. I appreciate your post and how you put your ideals, but please keep in mind that those are your opinions.

I'm clearly an atheist, but never in one post I said something like:

"There is no God, end of story"

We're here to discuss and understand each others ideas.

This brings me to another topic. Toleration of atheists.

Living in Italy as an atheist made me life hell (no pun intended).
With the incredible percentage of religious and fake religious that live here (see one of my older posts just 2 pages away) I ahve been mistreated quite alot for my believes, or non belives.

Why?

I never told anyone religious that they were "stupid" or that there is no such thing as a God.
Why should I? I would gain nothing from it, I would never say anything like that as I would never say that someone's political views are idiotic or flawed just because they are different from mine.

I know all of you can answer "I am tolerant la bla bla". But the truth in my life has been very different. And when I moved to the United States, the country of freedom and tolerance, I thought things would have changed.

They somehow did, but not that much. I still happen to feel very restrained and inadequate in some occasions, for example when someone tells me "God bless you" or refers to God in a conversation with me.

Do you do this often?

 

[Jammer]

They somehow did, but not that much. I still happen to feel very restrained and inadequate in some occasions, for example when someone tells me "God bless you" or refers to God in a conversation with me.

Do you do this often?

Heh, that's kind of interesting. Some people think that saying the word "God", when you're not actually talking about God, is what using his name in vain is. So, when someone sneezes, I say, "Gesundheit!", which is German for "good health".

When someone says "God bless you" like that, most of the time they don't really mean it, just like when someone says "Oh my God!", no actual thinking about God goes on.

It annoys me, too, when people are very show-offy with their religion, or "faith", as they usually like to call it. It's impossible to have a normal conversation without them bringing in how God loves you and they say things like "God bless you" and really mean it. They don't realize that that doesn't really change anybody's opinion about God.

Don't feel "restrained or inadequate" when someone says that to you, Colino. Well, do, but know that you're not alone. I, a pretty religious person, also feel uncomfortable when someone talks like that to me.

 

[Colino]

Heh, that's kind of interesting. Some people think that saying the word "God", when you're not actually talking about God, is what using his name in vain is. So, when someone sneezes, I say, "Gesundheit!", which is German for "good health".

When someone says "God bless you" like that, most of the time they don't really mean it, just like when someone says "Oh my God!", no actual thinking about God goes on.

It annoys me, too, when people are very show-offy with their religion, or "faith", as they usually like to call it. It's impossible to have a normal conversation without them bringing in how God loves you and they say things like "God bless you" and really mean it. They don't realize that that doesn't really change anybody's opinion about God.

Don't feel "restrained or inadequate" when someone says that to you, Colino. Well, do, but know that you're not alone. I, a pretty religious person, also feel uncomfortable when someone talks like that to me.

That's good to know. Anyways I ahve a grasp of german so I knew about the gesundheit thing. Not to mention in italian we reply to sneeze with "salute", which happens to mean "health".

I know that sometimes people don't mean it when they use certain terms.. But seeing a guy on the bus wearing an "I love Jesus" hat or someone saying "God bless you" when I happen to do a good deed (like donate for charity or whatnot, why should charity be religious? Can't I be a good person without a reason such as going to heaven?) is weird.. not frustrating.. just very uncomfortable. And I'm really not brave or full enough to say "Sorry I'm an atheist".

But one day, giving some change to some boys who didn't have money to catch the bus, I heard them say to me "God bless you! He loves you so much".
That one day I was ticked off for work, so I just said "I gave the money to you, not to God. Go get that bus".
I felt kind of bad, but relieved. And I wish I cold do that all the time. But I'm afraid to offend who I'm speaking too.

The whole point is, it might just be me and my weakness, but why should a society based on freedom make me feel inadequate because I'm not religious?

 

[AltF4]

It annoys me, too, when people are very show-offy with their religion, or "faith", as they usually like to call it. It's impossible to have a normal conversation without them bringing in how God loves you and they say things like "God bless you" and really mean it. They don't realize that that doesn't really change anybody's opinion about God.

Hah, yea. My girlfriend works in a dental office, so she sees a lot of random people. One time a woman told her that she "could see god's light in her". My gf didn't have the heart to tell the woman she was an atheist, lol.

And how arrogant too! To pretend to be some sort of messenger from god. As if you can tell the will of god, seriously, some people...

 

[Jammer]

But one day, giving some change to some boys who didn't have money to catch the bus, I heard them say to me "God bless you! He loves you so much".
That one day I was ticked off for work, so I just said "I gave the money to you, not to God. Go get that bus".
I felt kind of bad, but relieved. And I wish I cold do that all the time. But I'm afraid to offend who I'm speaking too.

The whole point is, it might just be me and my weakness, but why should a society based on freedom make me feel inadequate because I'm not religious?

You know why hobos say "God bless you" and stuff like that when you give them money? It's so you feel good about giving so that you give them more money. They're not religious; just street-smart.

I'm sorry our society does that to you. Welcome to prejudice and stigma, I guess?

EDIT: Yeah, I'm agreeing with blankuser15 now. While those people are making you uncomfortable, you're expecting them to change something that makes them feel "right", if you know what I mean. Nobody's really in the wrong, I guess; it's just a bad situation.

 

[cultofrubik]

Toleration refers to both sides, not just one. It's a two way street. Saying "God bless you" is a courtesy or even just a reaction, so just get over it. Most Americans are religious, so accept it.

 

[Tryptomine]

I know all of you can answer "I am tolerant la bla bla". But the truth in my life has been very different. And when I moved to the United States, the country of freedom and tolerance, I thought things would have changed.

They somehow did, but not that much. I still happen to feel very restrained and inadequate in some occasions, for example when someone tells me "God bless you" or refers to God in a conversation with me.

Actually, under the Bush administration, I've seen a considerable number of reports of abuses of religious freedom, especially in the military. From what I've seen, apparently they argue that since atheists beleive in no religion, the constitution doesn't protect their rights to freedom of religion like everyone else. It's quite sickening.

 

[Zink]

If that's the only problem you face, Colino, well... it isn't much. I will suggest how to deal with it: there's no need to flip out over the God thing if you're an atheist. Just accept that it's a standard syntax used for people to wish each other well. These people don't know you're an atheist, and even if you were, they wouldn't stop doing it because you don't have to DO anything to reviece a blessing.
Of course, if people actually discrimminate against you... well, that's more regional than anything else. Certainly I've known cases of the other way around: atheists putting down theists and acting arrogantly. Poeople just need to learn to respect each others' beliefs.
eidt: trypto, got an acceptable source for that? never heard it before.

 

[RDK]

When I was in high school, my parents put me through a private Christian education until I graduated, so I was subjected to hearing about God and Jesus pretty much every day of my life. To say the least, it was not enjoyable at all to have doctrine spoon-fed to you every day, especially when I stopped believing in what they told me about halfway through high school.

What I get ticked off at is when other people try to convert you to their religion or belief system, especially when they can't back up said belief system with tangible evidence. Some of the logic and reasoning Christians use nowadays is astoundingly absurd.

Like I always say--when you get down to it, Christianity is completely faith-based. You have to take what the Bible says as absolute truth. And I'm not the kind of guy to subscribe my entire life to a certain religion that I'm not even sure is true. I'd rather have my mind opened by experience with real life than closed by some insular belief system.

 

[Tryptomine]

Toleration refers to both sides, not just one. It's a two way street. Saying "God bless you" is a courtesy or even just a reaction, so just get over it. Most Americans are religious, so accept it.

I don't think he's complaining about people who just say little things like "Oh My God" and "God Bless You" when you sneeze or something (even I do that), since those have become popular english phrases that have pretty much lost any religious connotations. More like the crazies who think they're God's personal mouthpiece and every they say is always right 'cause He says so, and that extends to running up to random people on the street saying "God loves you!"

 

[ZodaPrime]

Religion: "what is it good for?"

ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING!!

Get it?
...
This has probably been the 344th time this has been in said in this thread.

 

[Jammer]

Well, there has been some problems like Tryptomine has said.

Here's the relevant section of the Wikipedia article.

Apparently, Bush hates atheists, and the definition of a religion is that you believe in some deity. I don't think you could call atheism a religion--but I think it should have the same legal rights as religions. As far as I can tell, the only really bad thing to happen to atheism was that "one nation under God" was left in the pledge. If that's it, that's not bad at all. It's not like you have to say it when you say the pledge. But I'm sure there are other things that I'm not aware of.

I have to warn you, though, that Wikipedia article is one of the less objective ones.

Apparently the Boy Scouts of America do not allow atheists, although I don't think that's true in practice.

EDIT: Tryptomine, I think we all know that finding a couple pictures of crazies doesn't change anything. They aren't at all representative of religion. What about the Columbine shooters, who asked people if they believed in God, and shot them if they said yes? Remember, it goes both ways.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Religion is good for giving cowards false hope and idiots wrong answers. I'd go as far as to say all religion is harmful, but I don't think Buddhism and similar religions hurt anyone... Except maybe Buddhists. (Jaines too).

I've never understood where theists stand with their beliefs. They really have no compelling reason to continue believing them other than that they always have, with the exception of a few crazy ****s like Bush who are convinced God speaks to them on a regular basis. Praying and churchgoing are to me the same as throwing salt over your shoulder or avoiding walking under ladders (Except that avoiding walking under ladders is good practice for avoiding falling items). Really, the Christian God seems like a small, simple God in comparison to the vast, inconceivable wonder that is the universe in which we reside. Of course, our world is more magnificent and strange than any fictional author could imagine, so it's no wonder that the Bible hasn't withstood the test of time and is easily questioned 2000 years later by superior knowledge.

If it's any comfort, I'm thoroughly convinced that my d20 hates me, yet fully understand that every time I throw it, the number that faces up is purely the product of randomness (or physics) and not at all because the little ******* wants me dead.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Straight8, that last two sentences there are setting you up for a lot of backlash.

 

[Tryptomine]

EDIT: Tryptomine, I think we all know that finding a couple pictures of crazies doesn't change anything. They aren't at all representative of religion. What about the Columbine shooters, who asked people if they believed in God, and shot them if they said yes? Remember, it goes both ways.

I know, and I never intended to imply that. But there's no denying crazies like that are out there (on all sides), and I just posted those pics because they amused me.

 

[indigestible_wad]

First of all, religion=/=belief in a god. Religion is organised, a belief is an idea.

While I'm not religious at all, but I think religion has shaped the world we have today. Things like ethics and giving people a sense of purpose were very useful a few thousand years ago when if they had not been there, bad things would have happened.

Things that religion taught then aren't as necessary now that human socienty has become more defined, but there are still a few reasons for it to be here. Not everybody is ready to be independant. Belief in a god helps knowing that there's more to life than it just being a fluke.

 

[pikachun00b7]

I am sorry it took me long to reply.

Heterosexual people also have sex just for the sake of sex. But the church and most religious people seem to put an emphasis on discriminating against gays more so then those who use contraceptives.

Not really. Contraceptives are mortal sins and invalidate a marriage.( I think that is too much , though.) You should say bias, though. The church does not discriminate homosexuals. And yes, Hetero couples do have sex for the sake of it. Most of the time. Even that is a sin.

Furthermore, you assume that the people in the homosexual relationship, had they opted to just choose not to be homosexual (operating under the ridiculous assumption that you can choose your sexual orientation)

Yes, you can not choose your sexual orientation. But acting it out is a sin.
Being Gay is not a sin.(Gay= attraction to same gender) But acting it out is.
There is a big difference between just wanting to do something, and doing it.

Except I don't see a God hates contraceptives website, but there exists a God hates ***s website.

I seen it also. It is horrible, God loves anyone. Discrimination sucks. Do not take the worst example of Christians as representations of all of us.

I know that, according to the Bible, God doesn't like people just spooging all over the place without a baby being made. I get that. But homosexuality gets A LOT more flack then people that have sex without having a baby.

I completely agree with you. Homosexuality is like a taboo in today's society.
And it is common now, so IMO homosexuality is not that(I am arguing that is bad to some degree) and does not deserve the discrimination they receive today.

Currently, 62% of the world's population use contraceptives (source), while only a small percentage of people (roughly 1-10%) are gay(source).

100% of people probably sinned. Many people cursed. Many people did some bad thing their life. I am not arguing the degree.

So what you are saying is, if someone shoots a man through the head as he is getting struck be lightning, this is more morally sound, since the man was 'destined' to die anyway? Why is it that a lot of your argument stems from predicting the future?

No, it is not moral. But consequently it is nearly the same. I am unwilling to argue with this since it is irrelevant. So ehh.. forget that example.

Also, I'd say that murder is far worse than never existing, considering the person being murdered may or may not have to experience the process of dying, and depending on the circumstances, this could be an EXTREMELY HORRENDOUS PROCESS. Never existing is at best neutral, while the process of dying can scale from neutral to grotesquely sickening.

Well, yes. But you are identifying two sins with with murder you are talking about. If the murderer killed you by harming you first(I am assuming you meant that) there will be two sins. Torture and the actual killing. If the guy died painlessly(just the killing part), then it is equal to never existing.

Living, or the events that unfold can scale from a positive 10 to a negative 10, while never existing has to fall on the 0 mark, falling on neutral.

I not completely sure what you are trying to say. How good your life is? If someone was a starving baby it would be -10, while if it where me it will be +10? Like that? Living with a bad life is better then not living. You are taking life for granted. We all have a personality, have thoughts, etc. Unless you are a baby or in a coma or something like that. We have so much to be thankful for. Which non-existent people don't have. These are worth an infinite time more than anything on earth.

I would change your example. It would be a scale from 0-10. Non existing would be zero. Poverty may be 2-3. we would be like 6-7.

Great scott!

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