Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Well, at least you made it back on stage. Then the "recovery" part is over. 
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Recovery Tier List (Updated 1-5-07)
- Thread starter B-Will
- Start date
- Status
Titanium Dragon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2004
- Messages
- 247
Ness's recovery is pretty horrid. It can go a long way, but it is pretty readily campable and if you have to recover via PK Thunder, you're in trouble against a lot of characters.
I more or less agree with the list, though I disagree with Fox's and Zelda's placements. Fox has great distance, but he's got very few options and is very predictable, to the point where even I can shine his recovery moves half the time His distance is countered by his predictability, and though some stages mitigate it, others do not. Zelda, conversely, has very good distance, and her recovery is pretty unpredictable. I'd move her up a place, then put Fox directly below her.
I more or less agree with the list, though I disagree with Fox's and Zelda's placements. Fox has great distance, but he's got very few options and is very predictable, to the point where even I can shine his recovery moves half the time
His distance is countered by his predictability, and though some stages mitigate it, others do not. Zelda, conversely, has very good distance, and her recovery is pretty unpredictable. I'd move her up a place, then put Fox directly below her.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
I'm not saying Ness' recovery is the best, just not as "horrid" as some people make it out to be.
phish-it
Smash Champion
WOah. Seriously, how is ganondorf number 15!? Seriously.
lol...i placed ganon or anybody where they are now due to what the majority thought. some people outnumbered me on certain ranks...while i think ganon's recovery is crap, there are two things i love about it: the distance he can cover and how he can sweetspot the ledge with his second jump.
i'm going to make a few more changes. changes that i will make is:
fox over link for now.
marth and game and watch switching.
there are probably more that needs to be changed but i'm lazy to figure out what right now. for responding to the above: ness's recovery may earn him two spots up i think. i dunno yet.
Trying to throw in my two cents up the people higher up.
Samus-
Samus' recovery is over rated IMO, I main samus so I know. Often times it's as simple at jumping out to intercept the bombs. It is also a bit harder than people are making it out to dodge attacks or projectiles while in bomb form. her vertical recovery is kind of stage dependant with out a stage to hook she has a great deal of her vertical game cut out from under her [/pun], and her UpB gives her very little horizontal distance so situations where you can't grapple or jump and need vertical distance the Up B will put you way above the stage in a vulerable spot.
Characters like mewtwo, jiggs and the chu's don't really have this problem. I mean I'm not saying she is nessessarily worse than them but her recovery does have big weaknesses.
Jiggs
It's been mentioned that jiggs vertical recovery isn't amaning, that true and false. If jiggs is edge gaurded with a spike (or meteor smash) generally she is done... since being hit doesn't give you any jumps back and jiggs lacks an up B recovery. But on the other hand if jiggs is hit off cleanly chance are she'll make it back to the stage relitively easily.
But I also think jiggs is relitively easy to edge gaurd if you can get a character with good range. characters like bowser, kirby, samus, other jiggs, C.Falc who can chase you off and force you to DI down or away hurt you big.
Peach
Peach I agree with what B-Will has been saying, she's over rated a bit. amazing horizontal but at the same time very easy to predict and edge gaurd. her vertical is just bad. if she winds up floating under the stage generally it's a free kill since she has to go above the lip of the stage to grab the edge.
Mewtwo
Mewtwo can recover from everywhere samus can and from many places she can't. M2 has the highest and longest double jump in the game(you can extend the distance of his double jump by using an attack at the peak of the jump), he can sweet spot the edge out of a dodge as well as out of his UpB, and he gains. He hard to jump out and interupt since when you can actually safelt do it he can teleport to the edge and sweet spot it before you get to him. He's as hard to edge gaurd as sheik but with more range and less recovery time on the landing. I'd say mewtwo for the top, definitely above jiggs, and easily above samus.
pika and pichu
very good vertical and horizontal recovery another two characters that if you haven't killed them then they probablly aren't dead. they can recover from any where just about and still have the option of sweet spotting or getting on the stage. Thier up B's are imposible to predict, period. They have the longest distance in the game, which means even if they are hit out of thier upBs they still have many a try to get back, thats cool.
Problems I have with the list:
Gannondorf, he is the easiest character to edge gaurd in the game, I don't understand why he is so high. down b recovery great but it doesn't change the fact that he is insanely easy to kill while off the stage. Much more so than many under him even.
Kirby:
Good horizontal and vertical distance but he it purty easy to interupt, and the fact that he loses his jumps if hit out of his up B at all hurts. His up B also has no real protection above him, and for being very vertical and predicable move thats a huge deal, it makes edge gaurding extremely easy.
Samus-
Samus' recovery is over rated IMO, I main samus so I know. Often times it's as simple at jumping out to intercept the bombs. It is also a bit harder than people are making it out to dodge attacks or projectiles while in bomb form. her vertical recovery is kind of stage dependant with out a stage to hook she has a great deal of her vertical game cut out from under her [/pun], and her UpB gives her very little horizontal distance so situations where you can't grapple or jump and need vertical distance the Up B will put you way above the stage in a vulerable spot.
Characters like mewtwo, jiggs and the chu's don't really have this problem. I mean I'm not saying she is nessessarily worse than them but her recovery does have big weaknesses.
Jiggs
It's been mentioned that jiggs vertical recovery isn't amaning, that true and false. If jiggs is edge gaurded with a spike (or meteor smash) generally she is done... since being hit doesn't give you any jumps back and jiggs lacks an up B recovery. But on the other hand if jiggs is hit off cleanly chance are she'll make it back to the stage relitively easily.
But I also think jiggs is relitively easy to edge gaurd if you can get a character with good range. characters like bowser, kirby, samus, other jiggs, C.Falc who can chase you off and force you to DI down or away hurt you big.
Peach
Peach I agree with what B-Will has been saying, she's over rated a bit. amazing horizontal but at the same time very easy to predict and edge gaurd. her vertical is just bad. if she winds up floating under the stage generally it's a free kill since she has to go above the lip of the stage to grab the edge.
Mewtwo
Mewtwo can recover from everywhere samus can and from many places she can't. M2 has the highest and longest double jump in the game(you can extend the distance of his double jump by using an attack at the peak of the jump), he can sweet spot the edge out of a dodge as well as out of his UpB, and he gains. He hard to jump out and interupt since when you can actually safelt do it he can teleport to the edge and sweet spot it before you get to him. He's as hard to edge gaurd as sheik but with more range and less recovery time on the landing. I'd say mewtwo for the top, definitely above jiggs, and easily above samus.
pika and pichu
very good vertical and horizontal recovery another two characters that if you haven't killed them then they probablly aren't dead. they can recover from any where just about and still have the option of sweet spotting or getting on the stage. Thier up B's are imposible to predict, period. They have the longest distance in the game, which means even if they are hit out of thier upBs they still have many a try to get back, thats cool.
Problems I have with the list:
Gannondorf, he is the easiest character to edge gaurd in the game, I don't understand why he is so high. down b recovery great but it doesn't change the fact that he is insanely easy to kill while off the stage. Much more so than many under him even.
Kirby:
Good horizontal and vertical distance but he it purty easy to interupt, and the fact that he loses his jumps if hit out of his up B at all hurts. His up B also has no real protection above him, and for being very vertical and predicable move thats a huge deal, it makes edge gaurding extremely easy.
mcc
Smash Ace
why is shiek so high up? if she doesn't grab the ledge, her lag screwes her over. and why is pika on top of pichu? pichu's may be slower, but it goes a lot further. and why is c falcon that much lower than ganon? their down b recovery gives the same height loss, and c. falcon's goes a little further. and doesn't c. falcon's up n go further than ganon's?
sorry if these have been explained, but i don't feel like checking 12 pages
sorry if these have been explained, but i don't feel like checking 12 pages
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Captain falcon gains less double jumps from his kick than ganon die to length and fall speed.
Also to get Ness up. Think about it. At least over Dk and Bowser. They can only go horizontally. Barely any vertical. Ness can cover just about the same distance they can horizontally, but he has the any direction bonus. I say at least over bowser, but maybe not luigi.
Also to get Ness up. Think about it. At least over Dk and Bowser. They can only go horizontally. Barely any vertical. Ness can cover just about the same distance they can horizontally, but he has the any direction bonus. I say at least over bowser, but maybe not luigi.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
I agree with pretty much all you said <3. There are a few points to bring up though. First off Jigglypuff has a pretty nice airdodge which helps in vertical recovery. It pretty much functions as her upB since it moves pretty far and you get it back if you get hit. I usually try to make the last move of my recovery with Jiggs an airdodge even if I do have more jumps left.
Samus is very stage dependant, I definately agree on that. Bombs give near infinite horizontal recovery but if the opponent manages to intercept it causes problems. Grapple helps against edgeguarding on pretty much all stages, and on certain ones gives her a huge boost to vertical recovery. However, you cannot use it again until you touch the ground, that goes for both Links too. That means that after Grappling if you get edgeguarded you can't use it again on your second attempt back to the stage. I worded that kind of funny, but I hope you get what I mean. So yes she has weaknesses, but she has alot more going for her than just her recovery moves. In general she is floaty, has an alright second jump, and her airdodge is the longest in the game if you use the grapple trick. If you really need vertical height you can use that in place of her upB since it goes alittle higher.
As for what I said in my last post I don't really think I worded it well enough. When I was talking about characters off the ledge attacks I didn't mean that you should consider how good of attacks they could use right after recovering. What I meant was that you really haven't recovered, at least in my mind, until you are actually back on the stage. It doesn't do alot of good to catch the ledge and then not be able to get back to the floor. Certain characters are easier to get back on with then others. First of as I said Bowser's under 100% ledge attack pretty much guarantees it, also Jigglypuff can actually drop from the ledge, jump out a little, then jump up some to go over the opponents head, and maybe throw an airdodge in their. Getting all those jumps back after getting the ledge is insanely helpful. Another big one is Mewtwo. He has a great stalling ability in his teleport, and you can do a similar tactic with him as with Jigglypuff, to just drop off the stage and recover all over again in a safer place.
Samus is very stage dependant, I definately agree on that. Bombs give near infinite horizontal recovery but if the opponent manages to intercept it causes problems. Grapple helps against edgeguarding on pretty much all stages, and on certain ones gives her a huge boost to vertical recovery. However, you cannot use it again until you touch the ground, that goes for both Links too. That means that after Grappling if you get edgeguarded you can't use it again on your second attempt back to the stage. I worded that kind of funny, but I hope you get what I mean. So yes she has weaknesses, but she has alot more going for her than just her recovery moves. In general she is floaty, has an alright second jump, and her airdodge is the longest in the game if you use the grapple trick. If you really need vertical height you can use that in place of her upB since it goes alittle higher.
As for what I said in my last post I don't really think I worded it well enough. When I was talking about characters off the ledge attacks I didn't mean that you should consider how good of attacks they could use right after recovering. What I meant was that you really haven't recovered, at least in my mind, until you are actually back on the stage. It doesn't do alot of good to catch the ledge and then not be able to get back to the floor. Certain characters are easier to get back on with then others. First of as I said Bowser's under 100% ledge attack pretty much guarantees it, also Jigglypuff can actually drop from the ledge, jump out a little, then jump up some to go over the opponents head, and maybe throw an airdodge in their. Getting all those jumps back after getting the ledge is insanely helpful. Another big one is Mewtwo. He has a great stalling ability in his teleport, and you can do a similar tactic with him as with Jigglypuff, to just drop off the stage and recover all over again in a safer place.
mcc
Smash Ace
what do you mean by "less double jumps"?
and i think mewtwo loses invuln frames after using his up b. i was using the stall and i got hit out of it.
and i think mewtwo loses invuln frames after using his up b. i was using the stall and i got hit out of it.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
With Ganon and Falcon you can regain your double jumps by using their Down B moves. But Falcon can only get a few double jumps back with his kick compared to Ganon due to fall speed.
Also, Ness can mindgame his recovery.
Also, Ness can mindgame his recovery.
Airo
Smash Lord
Mewtwo's UpB has the least aerial landing lag with exceptions of fox and falco.
and
i disagree in saying that foxes recovery is predictable.
he has walljump illusion.
a shortended illusion
and his UpB is multi directional
fox has a stall
fox from just those.. has much more options than alot of characters.
and
i disagree in saying that foxes recovery is predictable.
he has walljump illusion.
a shortended illusion
and his UpB is multi directional
fox has a stall
fox from just those.. has much more options than alot of characters.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I tend to play this way with Fox's, when above the stage Fox has a good recovery. If Fox is below the stage... Fox has a pretty high chance of death.
Airo
Smash Lord
yeah... firefox from below the stage is quite smashable =.=
but i would still think that fox should be above peach.
i dont understand why iceclimber is plced at number 9. anyone care to explain for me?
but i would still think that fox should be above peach.
i dont understand why iceclimber is plced at number 9. anyone care to explain for me?
mathos
Smash Champion
Shouldn't a wall tech be considered for recovery.
My arguement is that is Ganon wall-techs he can recover easily, whereas if yoshi wall-techs he can't do anything.
My arguement is that is Ganon wall-techs he can recover easily, whereas if yoshi wall-techs he can't do anything.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
Yes, Ganon probably gets more use from wallteching than anyone else. His recovery increases exponentially when you learn it. It probably should be considered. But I still don't see him much higher than he is anyway. He still has some definate flaws.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Who votes on this list?
Skler
Smash Master
There is no way fox has a better recovery then Link. Link has the hookshot (one of the hardest things to edgeguard), the bombjump for distance (it does work) and the scrahhh! for a plain hard to hit through reovery. Fox has the fire fox and phantasm, phantasm is alright but fire fox is awful.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
bombjump isn't practical til link is above 150%.
links up b is waaaaay easier to hit through than fox's.
i would take the phantasm over hookshot any day.
links up b is waaaaay easier to hit through than fox's.
i would take the phantasm over hookshot any day.
The Mad Hatter
Smash Ace
I do belive IC's should go at least one down. The fact that if you take nana out its over for popo.
MetaKnight0
Smash Lord
Why is Marth so low? He gets easy edge-techs, great horizontal, good vertical, good airdodge, good edge-grab length, and poke options if he saves double-jump.
And so many people ragging on Mewtwo's recovery. It's not predictable, it comes back from pretty much anywhere, he gets best airdodge for recovery, a huge range in teleport, disable, confusion, charged shadowball, and Up Tilt for pokes. He can choose to go right above the stage and teleport just above ground, airdodge and force opponent to guess direction, charged shadowball to get even more range. If he goes shadowball first, he gets Back Air as a poke as well.
Mewtwo has a sick recovery. Really.
And so many people ragging on Mewtwo's recovery. It's not predictable, it comes back from pretty much anywhere, he gets best airdodge for recovery, a huge range in teleport, disable, confusion, charged shadowball, and Up Tilt for pokes. He can choose to go right above the stage and teleport just above ground, airdodge and force opponent to guess direction, charged shadowball to get even more range. If he goes shadowball first, he gets Back Air as a poke as well.
Mewtwo has a sick recovery. Really.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
I completely forgot about charged shot for recovery. It is pretty rare to get it off though, but man is it cool when you do. I play as both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo, as well as like half the other characters, and honestly I like Mewtwo's better between the two. The only real problem with Mewtwo's is that he is such a big target. If he isn't in the invincible frames when he passes the enemy then he will get hit, every single time, but that really shouldn't happen if your using him right.
Also I think Mario can move up at least one spot. His recovery is alot like he is in general, versatility at the price of strength. Its pretty much the oppossite of Fox's, short distance, hard to guard, if used right of course. He has more recovery tricks than any other character. Aside from jump, upB, and air dodge, all of which aren't all that great admittedly, he has the tornado and cape obviously. He also has walljumps, the upB glitch, which isn't as hard to pull off as you might think on certain stages, and if he saves his second jump till the end he can use a rising Uair to ward off attackers. I've also seen Green Mario use Dair in his recovery once, but I forgot exactly how he did it. So yeah, lots of options, little distance. Overall I think its okay.
Also I think Mario can move up at least one spot. His recovery is alot like he is in general, versatility at the price of strength. Its pretty much the oppossite of Fox's, short distance, hard to guard, if used right of course. He has more recovery tricks than any other character. Aside from jump, upB, and air dodge, all of which aren't all that great admittedly, he has the tornado and cape obviously. He also has walljumps, the upB glitch, which isn't as hard to pull off as you might think on certain stages, and if he saves his second jump till the end he can use a rising Uair to ward off attackers. I've also seen Green Mario use Dair in his recovery once, but I forgot exactly how he did it. So yeah, lots of options, little distance. Overall I think its okay.
D
Deleted member
Guest
sometimes when I'm Mewtwo and I get hit into the magnifier lens, I'll fully charge a shadowball and still easily negate edgeguarding.
marth and falco are both way, way, WAYYYY too low.
marth and falco are both way, way, WAYYYY too low.
chronofreak
Smash Apprentice
^Those are definately the best things about GaW's recovery. Great argument, Samochan.
Not true. GaW has one of the best DI's in the game, so he can easily drift back toward the stage and use this up b when he's in range; since his up b goes so high, GaW almost always makes it back. Example: on FD, GaW can shorthop off the edge into a fair, jump forward again into another fair (by now he's at the edge of the screen), DI back towards the stage, and catch the ledge with up b; if you're not aiming to sweet-spot the ledge, GaW still has enough distance left over to overshoot the edge. And like Samochan pointed out, GaW has a very large range to grab the ledge; the best way to sweet-spot is to make it so that his up b reaches its peak a little below the edge, and GaW will warp and automatically catch the ledge. On top of that, GaW players usually don't have to worry about being edge-guarded since GaW's up b is very quick, travels suprisingly far, has great priority, and still can hit opponents even after GaW reaches the peak of the move.
Agreed, though I have hesitations of moving Falco up too many spots.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
I agree that G&W should probably move up, but just a little. It is true that his recovery being all vertical is somewhat balanced out by his great DI, and he is hard to edgeguard. I was too harsh on him earlier and I apologize. His recovery is better than I thought, just not great.
The problem is diagonal angles. Too be a high tier recoverer you need to be able to handle any situation(except Peach for some reason). That means being able to gain good horizontal and vertical while avoiding edgeguards, and hopefully having a nice sweetspot. With G&W if he is knocked mostly down his great vertical recovery saves him. If he is knocked away or up/away he can drift then upB to live. However, if he gets hit at a down/away angle so that he has to recover both vertically and horizontally he has a much lower chance of making it.
The problem is diagonal angles. Too be a high tier recoverer you need to be able to handle any situation(except Peach for some reason). That means being able to gain good horizontal and vertical while avoiding edgeguards, and hopefully having a nice sweetspot. With G&W if he is knocked mostly down his great vertical recovery saves him. If he is knocked away or up/away he can drift then upB to live. However, if he gets hit at a down/away angle so that he has to recover both vertically and horizontally he has a much lower chance of making it.
Elemennopee
Smash Journeyman
Topic Creator said:
Doc's recovery is NOT the worst, and i don't understand why Falco isn't at the bottom. Falco falling speed is the fastest in the game, his edgegrabbing range sucks, and his up B dosen't go high very high at all. Doc can atleast put variety in his recovery and can defend himself while coming back stage. Doc is also very good at sweetspotting the edge because of his insanely high edge grabbing range. He can throw pills and U air will DIing to the stage.
Mario shouldn't be so low either. He's just like Doc, except a lot better. Mario should be able Bowser because Mario can extend the horizontal distance of his Up B. Bowser's Up B gain's almost no vertical distance at all. So Mario should be put above Bowser and Doc should switch places with Falco.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
I agree with LMNOP
Falco is the worst, then Doc
Falco is the worst, then Doc
lol...what is up with everyone saying that falco's recovery is the worst? I main falco and I actually like his recovery although I know it's still crap. Like I said before, he has a lot of options unlike, say CF doesn't have. He can phantasm, short phantasm, angle his up and b at many different trajectories, it's extremely easy to sweet spot the edge with the up and b when above the level, and wall taching with him has got to be one of the easiest characters to do it with since he rides the wall with his up and b. doc has fewer options; so does CF. I demand that falco stays where is, if not, a spot higher.
I haven't gone through all your posts yet so I'll acknowledge them as soon as I have spare time, which I don't right now.
I haven't gone through all your posts yet so I'll acknowledge them as soon as I have spare time, which I don't right now.
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
Okay then. It's your topic.
If Falco wont move down, then yeah, I guess Doc would be at the bottom. I still think Ness should move up though. Ledgeteching for him is almost obsolete due to his 1 frame sweetspot and large sweetspot range.
If Falco wont move down, then yeah, I guess Doc would be at the bottom. I still think Ness should move up though. Ledgeteching for him is almost obsolete due to his 1 frame sweetspot and large sweetspot range.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Well to start.
Bowser definitely needs to be lower. He goes almost nowhere horizontaly and verticaly when he up Bs. He needs to be under Roy.
Mario is too low too.
And how the **** is Yoshi above Like 10 characters? He needs to be in the bottom. If Yoshi uses his 2nd Jump and gets hit off the stage he's dead, definitely the worst recovery in the game.
Ganon needs to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher. Like in high tier above Link. Infinite Jumps if the person knows how to DI up. Ganon does not die under 100%, ever.
Marth and Game and Watch should be higher too.
Jiggz
Samus
Mew2
Peach
Pika
Pichu
Fox
Gannon
Link
Luigi
Kirby
ICs
Marth
G&W
Shiek
Young Link
Zelda
DK
Mario
Ness
Falcon
Roy
Falco
Doc
Bowser
Yoshi
That's how it should look.
And just because Pika and Pichu have more options doesn't mean thier recoveries are better than Peach's.
Bowser definitely needs to be lower. He goes almost nowhere horizontaly and verticaly when he up Bs. He needs to be under Roy.
Mario is too low too.
And how the **** is Yoshi above Like 10 characters? He needs to be in the bottom. If Yoshi uses his 2nd Jump and gets hit off the stage he's dead, definitely the worst recovery in the game.
Ganon needs to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher. Like in high tier above Link. Infinite Jumps if the person knows how to DI up. Ganon does not die under 100%, ever.
Marth and Game and Watch should be higher too.
Jiggz
Samus
Mew2
Peach
Pika
Pichu
Fox
Gannon
Link
Luigi
Kirby
ICs
Marth
G&W
Shiek
Young Link
Zelda
DK
Mario
Ness
Falcon
Roy
Falco
Doc
Bowser
Yoshi
That's how it should look.
And just because Pika and Pichu have more options doesn't mean thier recoveries are better than Peach's.
Elemennopee
Smash Journeyman
Well, ok, but i still think that Mario should be above Bowser.
mood4food77
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,964
i like what stripesorbars said, but he put bowser way too low, bowser has decent horizontal recovery, he deserves at least low tier recovery (he never dies under 100%, unless spiked), yoshi definitely isn't the worst (i think he has better recovery than doc, mario, and falco) so he can move up (on stripes list)
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
The Ness being under Bowser and DK is still bothering me. Ness covers just asmuch distance as they do, but can direct it in any direction, unlike th big boys who can only go horizontal.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
DK goes about as far as Fox horizontaly. Plus he doesn't fall as fast.
And Mario's recovery isn't that bad.
Bowser barely goes anywhere when he recovers.
And Yoshi is so bottom of bottom. Without a 3rd jump(which every character in the game has incase they lose thier 2nd) Yoshi is trash.
And Mario's recovery isn't that bad.
Bowser barely goes anywhere when he recovers.
And Yoshi is so bottom of bottom. Without a 3rd jump(which every character in the game has incase they lose thier 2nd) Yoshi is trash.
thesage
Smash Hero
Ness should be way higher. The only bad thing about his recovery is that you can eat the thunder, and if the ness player is good enough, that doesn't even matter. He has a great edgegrab range too. He definately should be higher, at least the top of the middle tier.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
I didn't really like your list. Sorry. The only problem I have with the current one is Mario being too low, and I think Mewtwo has best in game. Other than that all my complaints are pretty minor. I think Bowser and G&W both deserve a little more credit but I wouldn't move them up more than 1 or two places.
mood4food77
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,964
ganon could be a little higher, he does have the lowest amount of hit lag in the game (why he can recover from shine spikes easier than anyone else), his up b is a grab (so it goes through anything), unless hit down while getting edgegaurded, ganon will come back, he is heavy, and ledgeteching really saves ganon
recovery is the characters ability to get back to the stage, yes ganon is easy to edgegaurd but the opponent will hit you many times to get rid of you unless he hit you down (and only falco and marth have useful spikes, ganon's is the safest idea), so ganon should be up higher, the only character who survives at higher percents on average is samus, think about it
i don't find falcon's that bad, i can make it back to stage a lot with him, the horizontal range on his up b is huge, i've made it back from places fox's up b can't make it back
pika has better recovery than pichu, the up b's go the same distance (pika's first move is longer, pichu's second is longer, but both go the same distance), pika's does damage and causes electric damage (which adds stun so it can mess up an edgegaurding character), pichu's does no damage (4% to himself), and pika's being faster makes it harder to edgegaurd
ness' up b can be intercepted but it is better than most
g&w's recover is amazing, why isn't it that high up, he can recover from practically anywhere jiggs can, it's very rare when he doesn't recover unless he is blastlined
link's recovery isn't the greatest but it's better than fox's, he can come back to the stage after being hit better than fox can
recovery is the characters ability to get back to the stage, yes ganon is easy to edgegaurd but the opponent will hit you many times to get rid of you unless he hit you down (and only falco and marth have useful spikes, ganon's is the safest idea), so ganon should be up higher, the only character who survives at higher percents on average is samus, think about it
i don't find falcon's that bad, i can make it back to stage a lot with him, the horizontal range on his up b is huge, i've made it back from places fox's up b can't make it back
pika has better recovery than pichu, the up b's go the same distance (pika's first move is longer, pichu's second is longer, but both go the same distance), pika's does damage and causes electric damage (which adds stun so it can mess up an edgegaurding character), pichu's does no damage (4% to himself), and pika's being faster makes it harder to edgegaurd
ness' up b can be intercepted but it is better than most
g&w's recover is amazing, why isn't it that high up, he can recover from practically anywhere jiggs can, it's very rare when he doesn't recover unless he is blastlined
link's recovery isn't the greatest but it's better than fox's, he can come back to the stage after being hit better than fox can
mcc
Smash Ace
bowser goes almost as far as DK horizontally and i think higher vertically
why is shiek so high? sure, she has lots of invincibility frames and a nice choice of directions, but if she doesn't grab the edge, she's pretty much dead with her long landing lag
why is shiek so high? sure, she has lots of invincibility frames and a nice choice of directions, but if she doesn't grab the edge, she's pretty much dead with her long landing lag
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