Recovery Tier List (Updated 1-5-07)

[mood4food77]

dk goes much farther than bowser does horizontally, and it rides the sides of stages better than bowser's, both go about the same vertically

sheik's up b is impossible to edgegaurd until the attack has finished, but she's up too high, i agree

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness' recovery also has extremely high priority compared to other recovery moves in the beiggining 10 frames.

thesage, I like your spirit, but Ness doesn't really deserve to be THAT high. Other than that, I agree with you. Eating thunder aint so bad.

 

[mcc]

i tested the distance of DK and bowerser's jumps by: jump, jump again right before they hit the ground with DI, up b and DI forward. i didn't measure height, but if you try that, you'll see that bowser ends up right behind DK

 

[StripesOrBars]

Bowser has top 3 worst revoeries.

 

[Airo]

ness when using pkt in air, all you have to do is touch him.. then he is screwed.. he cant even reuse his upB

 

[Earthbound360]

ness when using pkt in air, all you have to do is touch him.. then he is screwed.. he cant even reuse his upB

That's just about the most commonly stated downside of Ness' recovery. Seriously, eaten thunder isn't so bad. There are many ways to avoid this. Eating thunder is not even the opponents best option in edgeguarding Ness. And you dont touch Ness, you touch the PKT. Besides, if you fail and he DOES fininsh PKT2, then YOU are the screwed one. For once, ignore the eating thunder and think of all of the other good things about PKT2 recovery.

 

[chronofreak]

I agree that G&W should probably move up, but just a little. It is true that his recovery being all vertical is somewhat balanced out by his great DI, and he is hard to edgeguard. I was too harsh on him earlier and I apologize. His recovery is better than I thought, just not great.

The problem is diagonal angles. Too be a high tier recoverer you need to be able to handle any situation(except Peach for some reason). That means being able to gain good horizontal and vertical while avoiding edgeguards, and hopefully having a nice sweetspot. With G&W if he is knocked mostly down his great vertical recovery saves him. If he is knocked away or up/away he can drift then upB to live. However, if he gets hit at a down/away angle so that he has to recover both vertically and horizontally he has a much lower chance of making it.

Yeah, you're right. GaW definately doesn't have the best recovery in the game, but I think he should be higher on the list. (Upper middle tier at least.)

 

[mcc]

why does bowser have top 3 worst recovery if it goes almost as far as DK's and just as high (if not higher)?

 

[shadydentist]

I believe that Marth should be higher than DK. Marth has merely mediocre horizontal recovery, and average vertical recovery, while DK has fairly good horizontal recovery and horrendous vertical recovery.

 

[<π]

@ HighandMighty: good point, some how that evaded my memory. Jiggs has a purty good air dodge and the lag after landing it isn't bad either. You can also grab the edge out of it pretty quickly as well right?

@ doodah: Bowser has great recovery (distance wise horizontally) he just isn't very good at redirecting momentum well, if you hit him out of his up B generally he's done since he can't get optimum distance. but on that same note if he is off screen with his second jump he can make it back with easy since he doesn't have to fight his own momentum. a disjoined hit box makes him harder to hit out than a lot of people around and underneath him, though not impossible... I mean it is flawed, you have to be above the stage to sweet spot, and the momentum issues but bottom three? Nah... he's not that bad.
Also in regaurd to pichu and pika being above peach, it's not just options but distance as well, they have amazing horizontal recovery as well as vertical. in every situation peach survies and attack and can return to the stage the same could be said for the chus. This and thier unpredictability ability to sweet spot under the stage, etc. is what should put them above peach.


I also kinda kinda think Mario should be a bit higher... he can sweet spot from so far away, edge gaurding him is tough. and teh distance he can potentially cover isn't all that bad.

@ everyone: Also... thoughts on my last post? Mewtwo for top recovery? (or at least above sam)

 

[mcc]

they both can recover basically from anywhere, but mewtwo's is quicker, harder to interfere with and less predictable, so i agree that mewtwo should be 2nd (maybe first since jiggs doesn't do that great vertically, but i don't see many jiggs get meteored/spiked)

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I say Mewtwo for #2. They both recover about the same distance, but as you said Mewtwo is faster and less predictable. Not only that but Mewtwo's recovery is less stage dependant than Samus'. Samus' recovery is at its best when the blastzone is far enough off the ledge that she can take advantage of bombjump to recover great horizontal distance. Also stages like FD where you can grapple from really far down to increase vertical recovery, are great for Samus. However, Mewtwo can recover about that well on any stage. So I would give the advantage to him.

 

[technomancer]

Mewtwo should be #1 or #2; he's impossible to edgeguard with any character. He can recover from any hit that doesn't kill him INCLUDING any spike (even on Fountain of Dreams), and usually is able to get well onto the level, as long as he is not knocked into the bottom corner of the screen without a jump (not survivable by any character). His float and horizontal airspeed give him a better and less interruptable horizontal float-down than Samus' bomb-jump, and his teleport goes into the helpless animation before he moves downwards, allowing him to recover from it as if he just landed on the ground, even if it finishes one pixel above it. Doesn't mean that he's good (he dies at like 70% to Pichu), but if he survives any hit he will recover. Jiggly and Samus have the best mindgames in recovery, yes, but Mew2's is better. He also has a ledge stall, and a long ledge roll up.

Ness should also be up quite a bit; he has a tall double jump, his Up-B has similar properties to Fox's in distance and speed of travel, allowing sweetspots from above and below and huge distances up the wall, and he also floats amazingly, and in my time playing Ness, the thunder gets eaten a very rare amount of time; hitting Ness while it's charging is risky enough unless he does so near the stage (which he won't because he can either airdodge or grap the ledge). You can also do PKTB, or PK Thunder Barrier, and use the tail of the thunder to counteract the common strategy of ledgedrop double jump bairs. Additionally, Ness has a fiendish grabbox, allowing him to avoid tippers/downsmashes and recover quickly close to the stage.

 

[ChozenOne]

wow.. this topic got ressurected... *looks around nervously..*

Jiggs FTW.

 

[Magus420]

they both can recover basically from anywhere, but mewtwo's is quicker, harder to interfere with and less predictable, so i agree that mewtwo should be 2nd (maybe first since jiggs doesn't do that great vertically, but i don't see many jiggs get meteored/spiked)

Excluding wallbombing with Peach, Jiggs has the highest vertical recovery in the game actually.

 

[ChozenOne]

Jiggs FTW.

qft .

 

[technomancer]

Magus, does that include characters that can use walljumps and grapples as part of their recovery? Additionally, her height recovery is dirt slow and easily edgeguarded.

 

[Magus420]

Yes it does. Also keep in mind you can pound away from the stage to get far away and still get that same height basically.

 

[Airo]

That's just about the most commonly stated downside of Ness' recovery. Seriously, eaten thunder isn't so bad. There are many ways to avoid this. Eating thunder is not even the opponents best option in edgeguarding Ness. And you dont touch Ness, you touch the PKT. Besides, if you fail and he DOES fininsh PKT2, then YOU are the screwed one. For once, ignore the eating thunder and think of all of the other good things about PKT2 recovery.

oh no i meant attacking ness so that ness looses control over his pkt

 

[Sighrax]

I don't get why G&W is so low Recovering from magnifier on FD with double jump and triple jump doesnt count as good?

 

[Airo]

higher than mewtwos doublejump rising fair + teleport?

 

[Airo]

I don't get why G&W is so low Recovering from magnifier on FD with double jump and triple jump doesnt count as good?

i could somewhat agree, his vertical is very decent, but not his horizontal recovery

oooppppsss double post!

 

[Magus420]

higher than mewtwos doublejump rising fair + teleport?

You mean about Jiggs? Yeah. Not by much though, only a little bit. It's Jiggs, then Samus with grapple and wall jump, which is just slightly higher than M2 and both ICs, then it's like Kirby, the Chus, and Fox together below them.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I assume thats by using rising pounds with Jiggs to get additional height right. I tested it out with just the jumps and it didn't seem as high, I just remembered I forgot to factor those in. I've been playing with Jiggs for a little while now, since I have given up on having a main and now I just play like my favorite 6-7 characters. I use both Jiggs and Mewtwo along with some others. I love both there recoveries but I am starting to think Mewtwo's is better. They have near the same length but not quite, Jiggs is a lttle longer. But Mewtwo has invincibility, is less predictable and can use some interesting tricks. I already mentioned teleporting down to the stage to prevent edgeguarding, but he can do so much more.

For one thing he can use the range of his Bair and Uair for protection from edgeguarders. He also gets "on the stage" safer than Jiggs. With Jiggs you usually grap the ledge when you recover and go on from there. However, if you just land right on the stage it seems to me that Jiggs is more vulnerable. Mewtwo, probably more than any other character, can use his recovery to actually go from the air to the stage with no ledgegrab in between, and it is usually fairly safe. Another weird thing which is somewhat off topic but I'll bring it up anyway, is that he can recover downwards. Very few characters can do this but it is generally cool to have. If Mewtwo gets knocked upwards you can teleport down to recover. This means that you can avoid getting juggled on your way back down from a vertical attack. You can also use it to grab a ledge below you. Bowser does a similar thing with the bomb. I really think he should move up at least a little. Using the bomb to grab the ledge below is fairly fast and hard to guard. Of course the opportunity doesn't arise often.

Now with Jiggs I have been playing with Rollout in recovery and fell it is somewhat useful on certain stages, though there are generally better options. I am, however, new to Jiggs so I may be wrong on this. Anyway the other day I was on FD against a Y. Link. He knocked me off stage and I managed to recover using only pounds and one jump, so I still had several left and thought I'd try something out. Instead of going to the ledge I continued to move as high upward as I could then charge rollout. I landed on the opposite side of FD. Then I had an idea(sorry if its already known). Once I landed I quickly changed direction then changed direction again immediately afterwards. This stopped the Rollout, preventing punishment. It looked almost as if I landed with Rollout and instantly stopped instead of rolling any further. It was pretty cool but I wouldn't think it practical in most cases. Really the only stage I think is even big enough for that is FD.

One last advantage, but a very big one, with Jiggs is awesome air priority. If the opponent tries to jump out after you it will usually result in them getting killed instead. Being able to effectively KO opponents while recovering has got to be worth something, right.

Sorry that was longer than intended. I'll try to contain myself from now on.

 

[Razed]

I would put Samus over the puff =). Samus can get back up from absolutely anywhere, and it's fun to do so!

I would also put fox lower, because it takes a couple seconds for his up-B to take off, which makes him an easy shine(ect) target.

 

[Earthbound360]

Jiggs is top and should stay there IMO. Her recovery is infinite. Mewtwo's is good, but if he loses his midair jump, it sn't so great. And it isn't infinite. Jiggs is really the only character with infinite recovery, so I think she should be top.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Recovery Tier List (Updated 12-3-06)​

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Green arrow indicates a move up from the previous tier list. Red arrow indicates a move down from the previous tier list. The numbers on the right indicate the character's rank on the previous list.


Top Tier
--1. Jigglypuff
--2. Samus
--3. Mewtwo

Upper Tier
--4. Pikachu
--5. Pichu
--6. Peach

High Tier

7. Fox (8)

8. Link (7)
--9. IceClimbers

Middle Tier
--10. Kirby
--11. Sheik
--12. Young Link
--13. Zelda
--14. Yoshi
--15. Ganon

Low Tier

16. Marth (18) ()
--17. Donkey Kong

18. Game and Watch (16)
--19. Luigi
--20. Bowser
--21. Ness

Bottom Tier
--22. Mario
--23. Falco
--24. Captain Falcon
--25. Roy
--26. Doctor Mario

marth has much better recovery than this... between DI'ing up, DIing back to the stage, Sideb's and upb, marth can survive just about anything as long he doesnt get hit off the level entirely

luigi has a much better recovery than say zelda who has a jump and a moderate distanced upb. luigi can use his sideb and DI to make it back to the stage, similarly to how the pika's can. he can save his jump to the end to give him excelent verticle movement as well. i think he is at least middle tier.

how is yoshi so high? he has a jump, and thats it. the only thing keeping the biggest noob from killing him out of it is the fact that during it he cannot be hit (unless falco shinespikes him :D). the jump is moderately far ill give him that, but u cannot cancel the jump into the edge to save him from anyone taping him to death. i think it is low/bottom tier material.

mario is not bottom tier, maybe low tier. with his cape to help him move sideways, his tornado, and his up b, he can get get back from lots of things

doc > roy. you seem to not calculate DI into the equation. Doc has a lot of DI, and floats a lot. any competant player will DI to the corners, then DI back toward the stage. this allows doc to make it back to the stage almost without his jump or upb. then add in his tornado and he can make it back from many many things.

i think peach should be above the pika's. as long as she does not die off the side, she will make it back. between her float and her upb, she will not die unless u spike her. IMO she should be above samus, as samus (which unless u sweetspot with it, u will get hit away after using it by anyone who knows how to play) will fail to make it back to the stage more often than a peach will. i play samus's all the time, and especially on BF where they can only sweetspot the edge with the grapple, they do not make it back to the stage all the time, even from a simple hit.

i think middle tier needs to be reorganized,

Kirby
Sheik
Ganon
Zelda
YL

YL's hookshot will rarely be used when coming back due to its lack of range, though his upb does cover good distance verticly (more than link's). Ganon can repeatedly use his downb + jump as he loses very little verticle position. Zelda teleports in her recovery which allows her to not be edgeguarded, but there is no DI afterwards, and even before that jump and DI dont get her very far.

 

[mcc]

marth has long landing lag and you're exaggerating his recovery.

luigi's recovery is unprotected and can't DI with his up b, so he is easily edgeguarded/edgehogged

falco can't shinespike, and a few moves can hit him out of the jump. but he always has his airdodge, though i agree that he should be lower

mario's recovery doesn't go very far, and the tornado leaves you vulnerable for a little while

mario is floatier than doc and doc's recovery is just like mario's but worse

samus's grapple can latch onto the middle of BF and wallkick to the stage

young link's up b goes further than link only horizontally and there aren't many situations where zelda's up b won't go far enough to reach the stage. and whenever i use ganon's down b extra jump thing, i lose a lot of distance. what should i do to reduce the loss of vertical distance?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Mewtwo should be #1 or #2; he's impossible to edgeguard with any character. He can recover from any hit that doesn't kill him INCLUDING any spike (even on Fountain of Dreams), and usually is able to get well onto the level, as long as he is not knocked into the bottom corner of the screen without a jump (not survivable by any character). His float and horizontal airspeed give him a better and less interruptable horizontal float-down than Samus' bomb-jump, and his teleport goes into the helpless animation before he moves downwards, allowing him to recover from it as if he just landed on the ground, even if it finishes one pixel above it. Doesn't mean that he's good (he dies at like 70% to Pichu), but if he survives any hit he will recover. Jiggly and Samus have the best mindgames in recovery, yes, but Mew2's is better. He also has a ledge stall, and a long ledge roll up.

Ness should also be up quite a bit; he has a tall double jump, his Up-B has similar properties to Fox's in distance and speed of travel, allowing sweetspots from above and below and huge distances up the wall, and he also floats amazingly, and in my time playing Ness, the thunder gets eaten a very rare amount of time; hitting Ness while it's charging is risky enough unless he does so near the stage (which he won't because he can either airdodge or grap the ledge). You can also do PKTB, or PK Thunder Barrier, and use the tail of the thunder to counteract the common strategy of ledgedrop double jump bairs. Additionally, Ness has a fiendish grabbox, allowing him to avoid tippers/downsmashes and recover quickly close to the stage.

you are putting too much onto m2's second jump. i will agree he has one of the top recoverys in the game, but samus's is definately better. btw, samus can recover from any non-killing spikes too, even FoD. the FoD recovery from the bottom of the stage: beam (causes a jump), 2nd jump, wall jump, upb. I think they have it in All Wessed Up.

btw, ledge stalls and rolls have nothing to do with recovery tiers.

on ness: his upb only goes similar to fox's in distance if u hit it PERFECT which is insanely hard to do. i think he is at a correct (or very close to) his correct placement on the list.

 

[mcc]

ness's recovery doesn't need to be hit "perfectly" if he's in the air to get max distance

ledge stalls and rolls are part of recovery. ledge stall contributes to mindgames, and a good ledgeroll/attack allows for easier recovery from the ledge

and samus can only recover from spikes if the stage goes way below the main platform (FD and FoD). if it's a stage like battefield or dreamland, she's screwed; whereas mewtwo's 2nd jump and teleport has immense vertical and horizontal recovery (plus very short landing lag)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

marth has long landing lag and you're exaggerating his recovery.

luigi's recovery is unprotected and can't DI with his up b, so he is easily edgeguarded/edgehogged

falco can't shinespike, and a few moves can hit him out of the jump. but he always has his airdodge, though i agree that he should be lower

mario's recovery doesn't go very far, and the tornado leaves you vulnerable for a little while

mario is floatier than doc and doc's recovery is just like mario's but worse

samus's grapple can latch onto the middle of BF and wallkick to the stage

young link's up b goes further than link only horizontally and there aren't many situations where zelda's up b won't go far enough to reach the stage. and whenever i use ganon's down b extra jump thing, i lose a lot of distance. what should i do to reduce the loss of vertical distance?

long landing lag has nothing to do with his recovery. if u are worried about that, sweet spot. at least his landing lag is not as bad as sheik's. and im not saying marth has the best recovery, but lets just say i would rather be recoverying with marth than YL.

i agree with what u said about luigi but the distance of recovery along with the chances of misfires definately puts him at a higher spot than were he is. i think he is mid/high low tier to low middle tier.

Falco CAN shinespike yoshi. during yoshi's second jump his weight multiplies and if you shine him with falco he falls to his death. check the falco or yoshi section they should have something about that.

mario's DOES go far, at least not bottom tier material. his downb doesnt leave him very vulnarable, it has a descent hitbox and good priority.

im not saying doc > mario, im just saying doc > roy. roy cant DI very far because of his falling speed and his sideb's dont help very much, not to mention the bad distance on his upb.

yes i know samus can get back onto BF by doing that (my friend mains samus and does it all the time), but she cant jump back onto the stage, she needs to use her upb.

You are correct on the YL vs Link upb, i tested both characters together and their upb has almost exactly the same distance. i was under the illusion that it was higher because compared to YL's body it seems very high.

 

[mcc]

landing lag is part of recovery. what's good recovery for if you're just going to be knocked off again?

misfires are bad in small stages, so i guess it evens out.

mario's tornado has low priority and a hitbox about the size of his body. and he has a slight pause before he's able to use up b. and he's at the top of bottom tier. anyways, just try to ignore the names of the categories when looking at tiers. the placement of the characters is what counts most

roy's side b>doc's cape, and his horizontal recovery from his up b is better than doc's. i'm not sure about doc's tornado+up b though. anyways, they're both pretty bad so i don't think moving doc up 1 will make much difference

if samus can grapple the stage, she should be able to up b from the beginning anyways

and only vertical distance between the links are the same. y link goes much further horizontally

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ness's recovery doesn't need to be hit "perfectly" if he's in the air to get max distance

ledge stalls and rolls are part of recovery. ledge stall contributes to mindgames, and a good ledgeroll/attack allows for easier recovery from the ledge

and samus can only recover from spikes if the stage goes way below the main platform (FD and FoD). if it's a stage like battefield or dreamland, she's screwed; whereas mewtwo's 2nd jump and teleport has immense vertical and horizontal recovery (plus very short landing lag)

to quote a ness guide: "A shot directly behind you(parallel to the stage) will give you maximum distance." this means there is 1 direction that gives you the maximum distance.

i thought we were talking about getting back to the stage not what we can do at the stage?

if we are talking about spikes and not metors (its not hard to metor cancel with samus' upb and live) then i think that is a small point. the only times when u wont die of the bottom of the stage by marth or falco's spikes (the only true spikes, other than falcon's "nipple spike" which im not going to discuss since i havent kept up on the topic lol) is at low percentages where very few people would even try to spike you. btw, i took m2 to FoD and dropped low and dj then upbed and didnt make it to the stage. for the most part m2 is heavily reliant on his dj, and without it his recovery is fairly weak. also, you can edgeguard m2, its just about prediction. u can hit m2 even if he trys to sweetspot his upb (there are some frames before he grabs), and even if he goes on the stage you can get him good with descent prediction skills + reaction time.

 

[Magus420]

You gotta use an air near the peak of his jump to get the most height from it. He makes it when you do.

 

[mcc]

the quote either means when ness is standing on the stage when up bing, or the distance isn't significantly better

we are talking about getting back to the stage and being able to stay on the stage until you regain control of the character

i didn't really understand the point of your first sentence. and i doubt that samus can recover from that drop in FoD that you did to mewtwo. and yes, mewtwo relies heavily on his double jump. and it is extremely hard to hit mewtwo out of his up b because of it's speed, unpredictability, and only 4 frames of landing lag.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

landing lag is part of recovery. what's good recovery for if you're just going to be knocked off again?

misfires are bad in small stages, so i guess it evens out.

mario's tornado has low priority and a hitbox about the size of his body. and he has a slight pause before he's able to use up b. and he's at the top of bottom tier. anyways, just try to ignore the names of the categories when looking at tiers. the placement of the characters is what counts most

roy's side b>doc's cape, and his horizontal recovery from his up b is better than doc's. i'm not sure about doc's tornado+up b though. anyways, they're both pretty bad so i don't think moving doc up 1 will make much difference

if samus can grapple the stage, she should be able to up b from the beginning anyways

and only vertical distance between the links are the same. y link goes much further horizontally

i guess i can agree with the first part.

misfire = instantly back on stage. only stages it could be bad on is FoD or YS (which if i was a luigi player one of those would be banned :/) i think though that for the most part misfires help a lot more than they hurt.

the names have very much to do with it. you group the characters by who they are similarly to in strength and then u order that small group, not vice versa.

dont use doc's cape, it hurts him more than it helps, just DI'ing and shooting pills to protect you is better. his downb gives him excelent recovery distance too. i met a guy at MLG Chicago (who is now a friend of mine) who mained doc at the time. i saw him pull out recoveries i didnt think were possible. he would be about even to the stage and at about the edge of the sight range, jump, then downb getting maximum distance (while moving toward the stage in it) and then upbing to the edge.

agreed at that, but then why did u bring it up?

thats what i said (or meant to at least) sorry if i didnt make that clear lol.

 

[Magus420]

u can hit m2 even if he trys to sweetspot his upb (there are some frames before he grabs)

Not really. It's the same deal as Zelda's & Sheik's teleports.

 

[B-Will]

Arlight, I skimmed through all the posts and made just a few changes. I know that I missed some stuff so if I did, remind me of what they are.

To acknowledge some of the suggestions that you made but wasn't changed on the list:

Someone mentioned bowser's upb gained very little horizontal distance. That is wrong: his horizontal distance is actually quite decent. As long as you are di'ing towards the stage before you do his up and b, you should get a lot of distance. That and the fact he has a disjointed hit box on his upb makes his recovery definitely not bottom 3.

Ganon: Yes, we will never or should never die at less than 100% but I can't get over the fact that his recovery is so easily edgeguardable. I guess I'm a little biased; I main marth who plays against a friend who mains a very good ganon and dtilt/neutral b demolishes his recovery; basically, unless he sweetspots with his second jump, he's dead once he gets off the stage.

Ness: I was about to move him up because a few of you agreed but I dont know how much to.

Yoshi: Yoshi can mindgame. More often than not he shouldn't die because of lack of an up b. He can airdodge anytime throughout his upb. I don't know I find the fact that his second jump goes so far annoying and facing a decent yoshi recently, I hardly killed him till past 100%.

 

[Earthbound360]

For Ness, I'd say around Yoshi. So bottom of mid would be nice. Again, ignore the eaten thunder which aint so bad anyways, and you've got some nice recovery.

 

[mcc]

i guess i can agree with the first part.

misfire = instantly back on stage. only stages it could be bad on is FoD or YS (which if i was a luigi player one of those would be banned :/) i think though that for the most part misfires help a lot more than they hurt.

the names have very much to do with it. you group the characters by who they are similarly to in strength and then u order that small group, not vice versa.

dont use doc's cape, it hurts him more than it helps, just DI'ing and shooting pills to protect you is better. his downb gives him excelent recovery distance too. i met a guy at MLG Chicago (who is now a friend of mine) who mained doc at the time. i saw him pull out recoveries i didnt think were possible. he would be about even to the stage and at about the edge of the sight range, jump, then downb getting maximum distance (while moving toward the stage in it) and then upbing to the edge.

agreed at that, but then why did u bring it up?

misfire can sometimes be bad on BF too

as the list goes down, the gaps between the categories decreases

cape can be used at something fired at you :/. anyways, if tornado and up b is all doc can do, I wouldn't say it's very good. the distance he gets is horrendous.

i dunno lol


yay ness moved up