Rebellion, A Sheik decayed and non decayed combo guide *updated*

[saviorslegacy]

Can we have a Duck Combo

no u -_-

I called it the Swan Combo because it remind's me of a dance. I also was forced to read Swan Lake not to long ago. The fact that it looked like a dance, Gimpies combo vid begining sounds like balet and the fact that I had the word Swan kinda in my head while I made it I decided to call it the Swan Combo. Hey at least it makes sense right? Well.... I didn't name it after myself. <,<


BTW..... I WAS ABLE TO PERFORM IT!!!! It is not very good as an infinate across the stage. However, d-tilt/f-tilt/u-tilt (best set up but really hard to get it)> Fair> f-tilt (if you can do it again please do)> (if not then you have the choice of these finishers) DSmash, Nair, Dash Attack, DACUS (if you Fair to end), decay f-tilt into USmash.
All and all I have found it to be quite useful. Now I just need to master it... lol

 

[Zankoku]

BTW..... I WAS ABLE TO PERFORM IT!!!! It is not very good as an infinate across the stage. However, d-tilt/f-tilt/u-tilt (best set up but really hard to get it)> Fair> f-tilt (if you can do it again please do)> (if not then you have the choice of these finishers) DSmash, Nair, Dash Attack, DACUS (if you Fair to end), decay f-tilt into USmash.
All and all I have found it to be quite useful. Now I just need to master it... lol

From there you can figure out which attacks hit them based on where they went (Up, away, or toward. There's three directions, not that hard to keep track of.). And all of a sudden, you've simplified your cute 'n' convoluted little list of "do this combo at this % against this character with this kind of decay if he doesn't DI at all" into a much easier set of conditionals that go "if he goes this way then follow up with that."

or z

 

[Flamingo]

These numbers look like damage output at given decays. I looked at your ftilt decay numbers and saw: That just doesn't make sense to anyone who understands that decay makes damage output lower.

This is not entirely true, although i'm pretty sure it is for Sheik. Keep in mind that some moves such as Falco's lasers have a weird decay that really isn't decay at all.. it's like 3%, 2%, 2%, 1%, 3%, 1%, 2%.

I just read this somewhere, my source could be wrong though.. >.<

There are many solutions to situational problems in this game. The majority of this data is superfluous. Sometimes you just need to know when to cut the bull **** and make decisions that will benefit you in the long-run, stocks, and not kill yourself trying to decay fairs and up tilts so you can do some random combo that isn't confirmed by frame data.

</opinion>

100% truth.. dude this is brawl... learn to read DI's and tech chase, and worry less about combos lol. Also, were you playing against a competent human being who knows how to DI? or use moves with invincibility frames to interrupt your 'combo'? Sure, decay is nice, but just don't go thinking in a battle your opponent will let you set up your specific decay that will be AND SHOULD BE instantaneously erased when you use the right moves for the appropriate situations. Sheik has a moveset, unlike some characters where most of her moves are viable, for every situation she is in. Let's take... Snake for example. Why would he ever use Dtilt when he has Utilt and Ftilt? Why would Snake use Nikita.. EVAR? and Fsmash, besides the sheild pressure? you tell me one move, (and don't you dare say Fsmash... use it while the enemy is on the edge of the stage... and you will learn) that shouldn't be used in sheik's arsenal in tournament play, when another is more viable IN EVERY SITUATION, and i will give you a cookie.

PS. Hint before you embarass yourself. Dair doesn't work, because the appropriate way to get down to safety 75% of the time is DIing away from the enemy and using airdodge to safety.

I'm just gonna go play some more MK... Ankoku we need to meet in tourney. : ((

 

[saviorslegacy]

This is not entirely true, although i'm pretty sure it is for Sheik. Keep in mind that some moves such as Falco's lasers have a weird decay that really isn't decay at all.. it's like 3%, 2%, 2%, 1%, 3%, 1%, 2%.

I just read this somewhere, my source could be wrong though.. >.<


100% truth.. dude this is brawl... learn to read DI's and tech chase, and worry less about combos lol. Also, were you playing against a competent human being who knows how to DI? or use moves with invincibility frames to interrupt your 'combo'? Sure, decay is nice, but just don't go thinking in a battle your opponent will let you set up your specific decay that will be AND SHOULD BE instantaneously erased when you use the right moves for the appropriate situations. Sheik has a moveset, unlike some characters where most of her moves are viable, for every situation she is in. Let's take... Snake for example. Why would he ever use Dtilt when he has Utilt and Ftilt? Why would Snake use Nikita.. EVAR? and Fsmash, besides the sheild pressure? you tell me one move, (and don't you dare say Fsmash... use it while the enemy is on the edge of the stage... and you will learn) that shouldn't be used in sheik's arsenal in tournament play, when another is more viable IN EVERY SITUATION, and i will give you a cookie.

PS. Hint before you embarass yourself. Dair doesn't work, because the appropriate way to get down to safety 75% of the time is DIing away from the enemy and using airdodge to safety.

I'm just gonna go play some more MK... Ankoku we need to meet in tourney. : ((

I know... I hate Dair. I rarely ever use it (I sometimes use it as a mind game... if I do it that way I never get punished due to the fact that they aren't exspecting it.)

 

[Redson]

I'm sorry to say this, but as impressive as it is that you took the time to research all of this, its fairly useless. My argument:

No one can memorize this. You would have to be a computer designed to do nothing but play Brawl to be able to pull these off regularly. (Mew2Kinglol) They're all incredibly situational, for one thing. I, and many other people, are not going to take the time to memorize all of these despite how useful it could make Sheik.

Sheik isn't high tier if this much work has to be put into her. Thats just my opinion, though.

Lets assume, though, that there was someone who memorized all of these. Who knew the exact point of decay for each attack, who took the time to practice these combos on a regular basis...Then yeah, that son of a *****'s Sheik would be PRETTY **** hot. But who among us is that?

For me, Smash isn't a game that you should be restricted to set combos. Improvising is a very important in Smash, in general, and I think that if you limited your attacks to combos you knew 100% would work, you would do a lot worse than you regularly do.


There's a reason I never post on the Sheik boards. My game is trash and my posts are trash...lol..

/lurk

 

[Tristan_win]

Lets assume, though, that there was someone who memorized all of these. Who knew the exact point of decay for each attack, who took the time to practice these combos on a regular basis...Then yeah, that son of a *****'s Sheik would be PRETTY **** hot. But who among us is that?

/lurk

~steps up to the plate~ I'll take a swing at it.

 

[Redson]

~steps up to the plate~ I'll take a swing at it.

Then I will love you forever if you succeed. Like, I'll give myself to you. I will find out where you life, and force myself upon you with my unending love. Thats how much I doubt that you can do it.

I know that you're an amazing player, and are like a **** database of information when it comes to Sheik, but its too much. Even for you.

/lurk again

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The sheik board sucks as far as far as letting people express their ideas, or whatever.

Its impossible to post here without getting chewed out by somebody.

For all you whining about intuition, You dont think this could ever become intuitive?

You guys suck so much. -_-'

Im almost inspired to main pikachu again.

You should be happy this isn't the Marth boards.....

 

[<π]

yeah, uh it doesn't work quit like that. decay isn't

1 - 0.1X
where X is the number of move on the decay list. How early you used your moves effects how decayed they are.

so the order is actually very important if you are going to make stuff based completely on decay. fortunately you really don't have to.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

i think just remembering how many ftilts and other attacks you've done is good enough. i just feel my way through the game not memorizing setups

 

[Tristan_win]

Then I will love you forever if you succeed. Like, I'll give myself to you. I will find out where you life, and force myself upon you with my unending love. Thats how much I doubt that you can do it.

I know that you're an amazing player, and are like a **** database of information when it comes to Sheik, but its too much. Even for you.

/lurk again

I must ask... Are you female?

 

[Steel]

Sh e is.

 

[KRiMz0N]

i love this thread so much

but if sheik is high tier don't tell anyone, that way we can pretend like she's low tier and still disappoint marfs when we **** them in the face

...although i'm a marth main too...

don't worry, i won't tell anyone

 

[Tristan_win]

~reads what steel2h wrote, begins collecting data~

 

[Redson]

I must ask... Are you female?

What Steel said.

But I seriously doubt you. Sorry.

 

[Tristan_win]

Well even so if I become better then M2k as in able to beat his meta knight out of tournaments regularly with Sheik will you at least go on a date with me >_< I kid, I kid. This whole thing is rather amusing though.

Odds are I won’t NEED to learn every % by heart but instead with logic in hand sum up information that combos can start on the cast most likely breaking them up into lunch resistance categories. The tracking of decay is what going to be difficult but give me a few years and it will be mastered.
You see I’m here for the long hull, if I wanted to become the best today I would most likely use someone like Meta knight but with everything said in done Sheik MAY be able to compete with the best in the game with just potential she has.
When sheik was consider low I talk about mid tier and how she’s at least there. When sheik was in mid tier I talk about how she could get into high. Now with a thread like this I’ll be do daring as to suggest for the first time on smashboards that my real goal is to make sheik TOP TIER.
Although as of yet I don’t believe she can be anymore then high myself but with theses combos possibilities I am daring enough to even think it at this point, and yes I was drop on my head as a baby.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

LoL you should be careful ***** is a powerful motivator.

 

[Redson]

I think you overestimate Sheik. She will never go higher than mid-tier, imho.

But no seriously. My deal stands.

 

[Zankoku]

This thread became entertaining.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I agree Ankoku. lol


BTW... I found out that you can Swan on Heavies with very low decay (no duh). However.... I am starting to figure out what percent to do it at. (You should Swan the lightest characters at 30% and the heaviest at 50%.) (So just figure in that 20% range depending on thier weight.)

ps The best prectice for the Swan is Bowser in Training mode. Just set him to 50% and do 2 Swan sets. Since you do not decay in Training mode it will not work very well, but it gives you practice.


IMHO... we need to make a combo that starts out fresh and decays as we go into it. My Swan Combo is a perfect example. The Fair and f-tilt decay as it continue's to allow you to combo longer. This is what I am working on.

ps Tristan may be right. Think about it... if we evolve her decay game should could go to the top. Look at what she will have going for her.
TRUE combo's
an awsome Chain
Needles
fast
can kill at low percents
decent recovery

She has a lot going for her. All we need to do is combine everything we need to know about Sheik and put research into decay. All that would be missing is people that could do everything. I plan on being one of those people.

BTW... keeping track of decay isn't really all that hard TBH....

 

[Zankoku]

Why do we need more true combos than ftilt from 30-90% into usmash KO?

 

[Steel]

Make a vid of high level tournament play putting these "combos" to good use and I'll maybe consider them useful.

btw i hear ftilt to up smash is good ****

 

[stealth3654]

You see I’m here for the long hull, if I wanted to become the best today I would most likely use someone like Meta knight but with everything said in done Sheik MAY be able to compete with the best in the game with just potential she has.
When sheik was consider low I talk about mid tier and how she’s at least there. When sheik was in mid tier I talk about how she could get into high. Now with a thread like this I’ll be do daring as to suggest for the first time on smashboards that my real goal is to make sheik TOP TIER.

Hey Tristan...

Impact Clash IV: Deliverance
Atlanta, GA
23 entrants, $10 entry fee
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223742, Results: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223742&page=17

1) Kismet2 - Falco, Luigi
2) TheReflexWonder - Pokemon Trainer
3) BigLou - Luigi, Falco, Snake
4) Billy - Shiek
5) ZOM~B - ROB
5) Rayku - Lucario, Pikachu
7) Jamaal Ford (Pervatasaurus) - Falco
7) Teh Umby - Sonic

I got knocked out of winners by the best in Alabama (Reflex), and out of losers by one of the best in Georgia (BigLou) . There were not that many entrants, but I thought you would like to see this .

 

[saviorslegacy]

Make a vid of high level tournament play putting these "combos" to good use and I'll maybe consider them useful.

btw i hear ftilt to up smash is good ****

Since I have put a lot of focus into this in the past few days I have started to get good at it. When I get to a tourney.. I will make sure to get the vids.

You heard correctly. (Which is why it is part of my combo.)

 

[FrozenFire13]

Nice avatar and sig savior.

 

[ZOM~B]

Hey Tristan...


I got knocked out of winners by the best in Alabama (Reflex), and out of losers by one of the best in Georgia (BigLou) . There were not that many entrants, but I thought you would like to see this .

You're just lucky you got to switch across from me on brackets

lol, jk, good **** beating Rayku though!

Oh, and while I'm hear, I look forward to seeing what this does to Shiek's metagame... hopefully you all can get something off the ground. Keep in mind that you have to get your opponents to these percents (and thus decaying moves and undecaying moves in the process) - if you could figure out combos which did exactly say 30% damage and decayed just the right moves for a swan combo that could make for a KILLER first stock.)

 

[<π]

You are looking at these way too hard... sheik isn't going to be high teir, she lacks disjointed hit boxes and strong "any percent" and/or non character dependant finishers. (ftilt to usmash is ****) jab short down smash is too risky for my tastes... lack of priority is also a big deal.

she is a really good character but she doesn't have all of the tools necessary to get the high teir title IMO. Not that I even really care about teir lists in the first place.


That said sheik is a monster these combos, the swans actually work it's not nearly as percent dependant as it would suggest, but yeah you need to decay your ftilt and fairs (not hard shields decay moves too)

pretty much it's equatible to D3's chain grab you can do it till you run out of room OH~! it's sudo indefinite on plats I think (till kill)...

I need to test something, lol. hold on!

 

[Steel]

You heard correctly. (Which is why it is part of my combo.)

And what I feel is the only real useful one :/

 

[Zankoku]

not hard shields decay moves too

...Um, no?

 

[Crossjeremiah]

the problem with most sheiks now days, is that you guys are tooo defensive. you run away and expect to get some damage in. so the match takes 5 minutes. be more aggressive. pressure the heck out of them. no need for fancy combos. just read there di and have a decent decay and you can have amazing strings your self. strings>combos

 

[<π]

...Um, no?

don't tell them that!.

EDIT
also you can't do what I was talking about it takes to long.
But you can cancel your full run animation instantly on platforms into the idle standing animation which is purty neat. pretty much any animation that cance;s directly into shield (snakes nade stance, samus and mario's charge, run animations) can be instantly canceled by pressing down and then shield.

Press shield too soon after it will think you wanted to buffer a spot dodge, to late it wont read it at all and you'll just shield normally. learning to do it saves you what... 10+ frames for the -> animation... on plats. fun.

And for the record inocentroads discovered this I believe. Not me.

 

[Zankoku]

the problem with most sheiks now days, is that you guys are tooo defensive. you run away and expect to get some damage in. so the match takes 5 minutes. be more aggressive. pressure the heck out of them. no need for fancy combos. just read there di and have a decent decay and you can have amazing strings your self. strings>combos

And I'm sure you've been watching plenty of Sheiks to come to this conclusion?

 

[<π]

the problem with most sheiks now days, is that you guys are tooo defensive. you run away and expect to get some damage in. so the match takes 5 minutes. be more aggressive. pressure the heck out of them. no need for fancy combos. just read there di and have a decent decay and you can have amazing strings your self. strings>combos

Which ones are you talking about?

I don't think you can be purely offensive with sheik and be successful. you want to keep up pressure, but like I say all the time sheik doesn't have the tools to beat out a lot of characters pressuring moves that alone will force you onto the defensive. Fortunately sheik has a lot of good defensive tools in her reverse grab, shield grab, nair OOS, jab OOS, needles, ect. The speed and unpredictability of her moves is also a big plus. if you play her right people can only guess what you are doing her attacks are all too fast to react to. they can only guess based on you spacing and position. Of course use this and her ground speed to your advantage.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Thank you FF. A friend made it for me.


Well this is Peachy. -_- I just started an arguement between "Sheik can use these combo's" and "we don't need em". Wonder how long it will last? lol

 

[Zankoku]

Overall I'd just like to point out that you have several things wrong about how attack decay works and what it affects.

 

[choknater]

as far as aggression vs defensive goes

aggression is usually the best w/ sheik especially if you can gain momentum, and you start to predict shields and stuff well

but whether or not ur aggresive or defensive

just space everything perfectly and u will win

it's not that hard IMO it just takes a lot of matches to get spacing down, cuz spacing is matchup-specific usually

 

[saviorslegacy]

Overall I'd just like to point out that you have several things wrong about how attack decay works and what it affects.

Working on it. (I need to make an update here soon but it is hard to find the time that bath of us can test.)

 

[Villi]

test

Recommended reading:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221969

 

[saviorslegacy]

Recommended reading:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221969

Why thank you! ^_^

 

[goodkid]

Which ones are you talking about?

I don't think you can be purely offensive with sheik and be successful. you want to keep up pressure, but like I say all the time sheik doesn't have the tools to beat out a lot of characters pressuring moves that alone will force you onto the defensive. Fortunately sheik has a lot of good defensive tools in her reverse grab, shield grab, nair OOS, jab OOS, needles, ect. The speed and unpredictability of her moves is also a big plus. if you play her right people can only guess what you are doing her attacks are all too fast to react to. they can only guess based on you spacing and position. Of course use this and her ground speed to your advantage.

lol he was talking about me. I played him the other day. I'm just a defensive player & get too afraid when im up close, but shiek's boxing game is too good, i need to overcome my fear lol. I'm new to shiek. I've been Zelda solo for a while unless i accidentally pressed downb. Shiek/Zelda work too good together, I just don't know when to switch & when to stay >_<