Re: Question about Brawl's future.

[brawlmaniac]

I agree with SamuraiPanda here. Brawl will be competitive and there will be new professional players in the community. There will be competitive Melee players as before. Melee players shouldn't complain about Brawl... they should just go back to playing Melee.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Brawl is the best party game I have ever played. As a competitive game? Not really... I don't like how the game's pace changed. Maybe it doesn't have what it takes to make a good tournament game. I guess I'll wait and see until the game's developed.

I might be a little biased against brawl since one of my favorite video game characters got nerfed to hell and back. *cries inside a little*

 

[Zankoku]

I agree with SamuraiPanda here. Brawl will be competitive and there will be new professional players in the community. There will be competitive Melee players as before. Melee players shouldn't complain about Brawl... they should just go back to playing Melee.

Just stop.

This is why I'm okay with Brawl as a game but detest the community.

Some people complain about Brawl. "If you like Melee so much, go play Melee." So they say they ARE playing Melee. "Why are you people playing Melee? LOL MELEE'S DEAD, LEARN TO PLAY BRAWL."

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just stop.

This is why I'm okay with Brawl as a game but detest the community.

Some people complain about Brawl. "If you like Melee so much, go play Melee." So they say they ARE playing Melee. "Why are you people playing Melee? LOL MELEE'S DEAD, LEARN TO PLAY BRAWL."

I've seen a decent amount of the former but I have yet to see any of the latter...
Also, regarding Brawl's community, it will easily improve with time. The people who are truely serious about being competitve with this game will stick around while the rest will move onto other things once they become bored. Seriously, look at the sheer amount of people who left when Brawl's final roster was revealed and it didn't have the exact characters they wanted. Heck, I think I'm the only member of the Geno Alliance who still comes here on a regular basis let alone doesn't think that Brawl absolutely sucks.

 

[Jimtopia]

Very inspiring.

 

[brawlmaniac]

I've seen a decent amount of the former but I have yet to see any of the latter...
Also, regarding Brawl's community, it will easily improve with time. The people who are truely serious about being competitve with this game will stick around while the rest will move onto other things once they become bored. Seriously, look at the sheer amount of people who left when Brawl's final roster was revealed and it didn't have the exact characters they wanted. Heck, I think I'm the only member of the Geno Alliance who still comes here on a regular basis let alone doesn't think that Brawl absolutely sucks.

Yeah I hope the complainers DO get bored and stop bashing on Brawl. As I said before: If you don't like Brawl, go back to playing Melee.

 

[-Frozen-]

Good read, and I agree 100% with the OP's post.
If only more people would look at Brawl's future with such positivity.

 

[Lumpy..]

I might be a little biased against brawl since one of my favorite video game characters got nerfed to hell and back. *cries inside a little*

is it samus? please?

 

[Eggm]

I think its a little early to tell them that brawl is 100% going to succeed and its where the future is. Sure the hype is huge right now but you know why? Theres like millions of casuals entering tournaments who will be gone in 1 year at most. Casuals move onto the next big thing every time it comes out. Theres no arguing this. They feed the whole gaming industry and it wouldn't exist without them. A very small percentage of the casuals who are feeding the pots right now are going to remain. Once they are gone a lot of the people who play just for money, but really don't find it that fun will also leave (not particularly back to melee but something). More competitive fighting games like SF4 will take some away as well. Maybe starcraft 2. Its also not an incredibly deep game. All the people who rave about brawl like it because it took over all the games they played for tournaments. Because of big turnouts. They also praise the games community and big turnouts and stuff like that rather than anything in the game ever. (things they can get from any game). Eventually they realize they could be plyaing more exciting games with the same community and be having even more fun once the hype is gone and the tons of casuals are gone making huge pots gone. Nothings ever said about the game itself. If you don't believe me about the tons of casuals thing look @ the results for UCLA. I have never seen so many unknowns in my entire life in a tournament results. Since its not that deep, fun to watch or exciting to do once the hype is gone from the big turnouts/money from the tons of casuals people are going to get bored FAST. Its really a stretch IMo to think its going to last past 1.5 years (at best).

 

[Forget Me Not]

I think its a little early to tell them that brawl is 100% going to succeed and its where the future is. Sure the hype is huge right now but you know why? Theres like millions of casuals entering tournaments who will be gone in 1 year at most. Casuals move onto the next big thing every time it comes out. Theres no arguing this. They feed the whole gaming industry and it wouldn't exist without them. A very small percentage of the casuals who are feeding the pots right now are going to remain. Once they are gone a lot of the people who play just for money, but really don't find it that fun will also leave (not particularly back to melee but something). More competitive fighting games like SF4 will take some away as well. Maybe starcraft 2. Its also not an incredibly deep game. All the people who rave about brawl like it because it took over all the games they played for tournaments. Because of big turnouts. They also praise the games community and big turnouts and stuff like that rather than anything in the game ever. (things they can get from any game). Eventually they realize they could be plyaing more exciting games with the same community and be having even more fun once the hype is gone and the tons of casuals are gone making huge pots gone. Nothings ever said about the game itself. If you don't believe me about the tons of casuals thing look @ the results for UCLA. I have never seen so many unknowns in my entire life in a tournament results. Since its not that deep, fun to watch or exciting to do once the hype is gone from the big turnouts/money from the tons of casuals people are going to get bored FAST. Its really a stretch IMo to think its going to last past 1.5 years (at best).

We will just have to wait and see. Brawl will have to stand the test of time just like every other game out there to determine if it's good enough to still be fun when we pick it up again two years from now.

 

[SonicLucario]

Amazing post Panda.I coudn't agree more.I get discouraged each time I hear people dissing Brawl and comparing it to Melee.That always goes away when I play Brawl.I mean don't get me wrong I love Melee too.I just like Brawl better.

 

[MichelFalcaut]

This debate will be moot when Smash Bros. comes out on a next gen system. They'll get online play right next time.

 

[momochuu]

This debate will be moot when Smash Bros. comes out on a next gen system. They'll get online play right next time.

We just have to wait 7 more years...;-;

 

[Zodiac]

We just have to wait 7 more years...;-;

Please no...

 

[GreatClayMonkey]

We just have to wait 7 more years...;-;

I'm crying inside because its true
They really should have found away to make DC but thats a different topic
In short trying to get used to Brawl after playing so much melee feels weird. I feel like I'm betraying it or something but I'm still gonna keep trying

 

[NDUDE]

What was his username again

Same thing: SAMURAIPANDA

 

[OmegaXXII]

Nice thread, but I just wish people would just give up on this "Brawl vs Melee" stuff because it really annoys me seeing fellow smashers like us argue over which is better, I'll just say if you like Brawl better play Brawl, if you like Melee better stick to Melee, it's as simple as that.

 

[Zodiac]

Nice thread, but I just wish people would just give up on this "Brawl vs Melee" stuff because it really annoys me seeing fellow smashers like us argue over which is better, I'll just say if you like Brawl better play Brawl, if you like Melee better stick to Melee, it's as simple as that.

Most of the posters here arnt bringing up that, this time its actually being looked at from a logical point a view (For the most part)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Please no...

7 years is definately a stretch. I would say 5 years because the next generation is estimated to start in about 2 years and Brawl has already sold close to what Melee sold in its entire lifespan. With that being said, I seriously doubt that Nintendo's going to wait a long time to release the next one but it definately won't be in this generation.

 

[Zodiac]

7 years is definately a stretch. I would say 5 years because the next generation is estimated to start in about 2 years and Brawl has already sold close to what Melee sold in its entire lifespan. With that being said, I seriously doubt that Nintendo's going to wait a long time to release the next one but it definately won't be in this generation.

Thats really has nothing to do with brawl being good, it has to do with having 11.41 million wii's sold in America. and about half of those have a copy of brawl in them. if the gamecube sold this well initially I have no doubt Melee would have sold close to this well. (Because nintendo has NEVER EVER EVER hyped a game this much in the companies entire life span)

 

[LavisFiend]

All I know is that to try and play both during all the work I am putting in to better Olimar as well as the new Ness and Lucas AND PT will only hinder my growth as both games timings are so drastically different.

So I just sort of stopped playing Melee altogether.

Doesn't mean I hate it by any means. Melee has thousands of hours of MY time dedicated to that game. You can't just ignore that amount of dedication. I do not intend to make it seem like, "I LIEK BRAWL CUZ IT'Z EAZUIR 2 DEW THIGNS" more so it is me just going where the mob goes. For the most part, Brawl is hot right now, VERY hot, RED hot...

Yet who can really say what WILL happen a year or two down the road?

All I know is that I will not pour more of my time into getting better at a game that might not hold due to lack of populated upkeep of making it still grow and thrive. Not saying that "MELEE IS GOEN UNDUR LOL" either, I just find it better to go with the new for the new has shown that it is going to be hot for a while.

If it goes under... oh well. Who cares right? The big thing here is I am going to have my fun and grow on whatever game shows more public appeal. Brawl has shown massive public appeal outside of smashboards, and well, I LIKE Brawl so...

I am going to stick with Brawl. Not because it's "more balanced," and not because it is "more easier," but because it's the game to play right now and it's a game I enjoy to play, just as I enjoyed Melee before Brawl.

 

[Crizthakidd]

is just that brawl tournaments are sooo....

 

[DarkDragoon]

I've actually found that more than anything, it's the community spawned from Brawl that I dislike. The game itself is fine.

I agree with this. Intelligence and lurking is lost to headstrong newbies who think that they can say whatever they want and not worry about what its going to do.

Unfortunantly, I was there to witness the decline of Soul Calibur, having followed that community extensively.

As for Brawl? I believe that it is safe to say that, whether Brawl becomes competitive or not, it is currently riding the momentum generated by the pro melee scene.

>.> And once that momentum runs out...

Sure the hype is huge right now but you know why? Theres like millions of casuals entering tournaments who will be gone in 1 year at most.

is just that brawl tournaments are sooo....

Slow? Uninteresting? Unfamiliar?

>.> Basically, as great of a game Brawl may or may not be, all it has managed to do so far is bring in a large, but "false" population, and these same "false" populations are what are causing the problems with this community in the first place.

I intend to play Brawl and Melee through to the end, but the only thing giving me second thoughts is the community and its likely short life span.

-DD

 

[Emperor Time]

I'll play Brawl no matter what. In the coming years, the competitive scene will settle down.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I agree with this. Intelligence and lurking is lost to headstrong newbies who think that they can say whatever they want and not worry about what its going to do.

This occurred in the beginning of melee.
There will always be headstrong noobs who beleive they can say whatever they want.

>.> And once that momentum runs out...

It will run on the people who have dedicated themselves to Brawl.

Slow? Uninteresting? Unfamiliar?

slow? Meh
uninteresting? Subjective
Unfamilar? Of course

>.> Basically, as great of a game Brawl may or may not be, all it has managed to do so far is bring in a large, but "false" population, and these same "false" populations are what are causing the problems with this community in the first place.

"False" population?.

The resulting issues are not because of the "false" population, but the fact that because Brawl is new, views are bound to clash. There has never been a "false" population.
I am also confused as to what you mean by "false".

It took over 5 years for melee to become the competitive piece that it was, during that time many views came into conflict just as they do now in Brawl.
Heck people used to believe that Link's Spin attack was incredibly broken.
Or how people used to suicide themselves with JIggly's rollout.
The game was different from SSB64 and many voiced their concerns over melee just as they did now.

This is similar to what is occurring with Brawl now.
With the many years of experience with melee, the concerns are greater when Brawl was presented.
The many changes were a great contrast to Brawl and has created such concerns.
The community is much larger than when it was when SSB64 was being played and has grown even moreso during melee. The result, the problems that arise are much louder than before.

While Brawl may have less depth than melee, this does not necessarily mean Brawl will not be around for a long amount of time.
Worst case scenario is indeed that Brawl disappears from the competitive scene, but I doubt this will occur mainly because a majority of people are hopeful for brawl.

I intend to play Brawl and Melee through to the end, but the only thing giving me second thoughts is the community and its likely short life span.

-DD

I don't think Brawl's lifespan will be short.
Many people who typically couldn't enter the competitive scene now have the ability to do so via wifi. I know of many times I couldn't enter a tournament because I was simply too far away and didn't have the means to go.
If anything this prolongs the lifespan of the game and points to a longer lifespan rather than a short one.

I think the only thing that is holding Brawl back from being around for a long amount of time is the pessimistic attitude that has resulted in the transition from melee~> Brawl.
The PM that Samurai Panda provided is an excellent example.
People become nervous because of the pessimistic attitude concerning Brawl's competitive nature and feel the competitive community won't support the game or make efforts to invest time with the game.

 

[DarkDragoon]

This occurred in the beginning of melee.
There will always be headstrong noobs who beleive they can say whatever they want.

It will run on the people who have dedicated themselves to Brawl.

It may have occurred at the beginning of Melee, but it wasn't as massive or disturbing. All N64 really had in it was Zcanceling, and no one outside of its small competitive scene knew about it. I sure as hell didn't.

Melee had a REALLY advanced metagame by the end, and most newbies thought they had no chance of catching up. Heck, I grabbed on to competitive melee less than a year before Brawl came out and practice has gotten me tons better than I was before.

So, with the "New game, no one knows anything" mentality comes the newbies who play the game for a while and tell everyone things that are silly, like being offensive in Brawl can help you sometimes, and continue to defend their point without realizing the person they may or may not be arguing with has years more experience than them in Smash period.

Granted, it has died down since launch, but it still remains a problem with things like "Tier Lists" and "ATs", and everything else scrubs hated and never took the time to understand.

"False" population?.

The resulting issues are not because of the "false" population, but the fact that because Brawl is new, views are bound to clash. There has never been a "false" population.
I am also confused as to what you mean by "false".

The false population are those who join with the intent of keeping in the community, and then move on to the next big thing. We had a LARGE example of this with MKWii. How many dedicated Smashers have we lost to that already?
The "False" population are those who are coming in, pumping up the Brawl scene to be greater than it is, and then leaving, making it a hallow entity.

It took over 5 years for melee to become the competitive piece that it was, during that time many views came into conflict just as they do now in Brawl.
Heck people used to believe that Link's Spin attack was incredibly broken.
Or how people used to suicide themselves with JIggly's rollout.
The game was different from SSB64 and many voiced their concerns over melee just as they did now.

This is similar to what is occurring with Brawl now.
With the many years of experience with melee, the concerns are greater when Brawl was presented.
The many changes were a great contrast to Brawl and has created such concerns.
The community is much larger than when it was when SSB64 was being played and has grown even moreso during melee. The result, the problems that arise are much louder than before.

Its not that the problems are presented louder, its that they're more outrageous. With Link's Spin attack, you can jump over it. With Jiggly's rollout, it only takes some common sense to turn the control stick the other direction. These are all simple problems which were resolved quickly.

Against a Snake, it doesn't matter what speed you're moving at. He can go for the FTilt, and you can jump over it. Because Brawl is so slow, he'll see it, not even have to predict it, and just UTilt you and you'll die at like, 100%.

I've literally done a case study with the people at my school using Melee. I brought the game into the gamer club, and instantly, I see tons of Links and Roys, with a few Foxes or Sheiks. Now, that was 7 Months ago. Today, we still see one or two links, but they don't sit there doing "Spin it to win it", they move around, combo, grab, gimp, etc. All because when it started out as a ton of people spinning, I told them "Hey, you can just jump, or wait to the attack to end, and then charge in!"
I brought them Brawl a week after release. We set it to 3 stock, we went to a nice neutral stage. Once Pit started arrow spamming, and Snake was killing at ridiculously low percents, MK was just not letting anyone do anything, etc, they all demanded that Brawl never be brought back to that room ever again.
>.> These players are all 100% American Scrub. But they're educated to see past the game's little "cheap tricks"(Like Spin it to win it, not like Wavedashing), and can see value in the game.

While Brawl may have less depth than melee, this does not necessarily mean Brawl will not be around for a long amount of time.
Worst case scenario is indeed that Brawl disappears from the competitive scene, but I doubt this will occur mainly because a majority of people are hopeful for brawl.

While its true that people are hopeful, peoples hopes will wain over time. I know I started out hopeful, then after watching Cort dominate everyone that wasn't M2k with Snake, and watching how he played, it just got really depressing that its really as simple as that.

I don't think Brawl's lifespan will be short.
Many people who typically couldn't enter the competitive scene now have the ability to do so via wifi. I know of many times I couldn't enter a tournament because I was simply too far away and didn't have the means to go.
If anything this prolongs the lifespan of the game and points to a longer lifespan rather than a short one.

Wifi can't hold any ground compared to face-to-face tournaments, which is what made this community so strong to begin with. Also, the way the wifi is done is comical, and the timing is completely off. When I can't see my opponent, and I'm not in an atmosphere of a real tournament, just sitting in my room with my wii, playing some random guy over wifi in a tournament that cost me no money to enter, no one new to REALLY meet, and no money on the line, I can't bring myself to play seriously. It just doesn't feel the same.
If the Competitive scene has to thrive on Wifi alone, then its already going downhill >.>.

I think the only thing that is holding Brawl back from being around for a long amount of time is the pessimistic attitude that has resulted in the transition from melee~> Brawl.
The PM that Samurai Panda provided is an excellent example.
People become nervous because of the pessimistic attitude concerning Brawl's competitive nature and feel the competitive community won't support the game or make efforts to invest time with the game.

That attitude wouldn't hinder the people who are serious about being competitive, the same way all the scrubs in melee kept bashing competitive players, the scene would only grow, because it was strong.
=| So, for the sake of Brawl's scene, I would hope the pessimism isn't getting to them.
XD It doesn't stop me from "Competitive Brawling".
-DD

 

[AlphaZealot]

Brawl is only limited by our own minds.

Offense beating defense in Brawl: youtube.com/alphazealot

 

[ShadowLink84]

It may have occurred at the beginning of Melee, but it wasn't as massive or disturbing. All N64 really had in it was Zcanceling, and no one outside of its small competitive scene knew about it. I sure as hell didn't.

Exactly. My point is that the reason eople are questioning Brawl so much is because the community as a whole has grown much larger over time. As such the ideas that clash occur much more often and intensely. I thought Z canceling was common knowledge.

Melee had a REALLY advanced metagame by the end, and most newbies thought they had no chance of catching up. Heck, I grabbed on to competitive melee less than a year before Brawl came out and practice has gotten me tons better than I was before.

So, with the "New game, no one knows anything" mentality comes the newbies who play the game for a while and tell everyone things that are silly, like being offensive in Brawl can help you sometimes, and continue to defend their point without realizing the person they may or may not be arguing with has years more experience than them in Smash period.

Except mind you this occurred in the beginning of melee's metagame. This was during the time when pros were still killing themselves with jigglypuff's rollout.
The amount of time it took to unlock Melee's potential was staggering and whole Brawl isn't as deep, I do believe it will take some time before the metagame has been advanced to its most potential.
The majority of people who say new game no body knows ar eonly partly right, mainly because Brawl is much more different than melee and while we know what we may want, we may not know how to get there or if its possible. Or to what degree it can be accomplished.

Granted, it has died down since launch, but it still remains a problem with things like "Tier Lists" and "ATs", and everything else scrubs hated and never took the time to understand.

agreed.

The false population are those who join with the intent of keeping in the community, and then move on to the next big thing. We had a LARGE example of this with MKWii. How many dedicated Smashers have we lost to that already?
The "False" population are those who are coming in, pumping up the Brawl scene to be sgreater than it is, and then leaving, making it a hallow entity.

Okay, such more different than what I originally interpreted.

Its not that the problems are presented louder, its that they're more outrageous. With Link's Spin attack, you can jump over it. With Jiggly's rollout, it only takes some common sense to turn the control stick the other direction. These are all simple problems which were resolved quickly.

Yes and yet people are still complaining about people who spam Pit's arrows.
This is a result of the larger population since the complaints become louder.
THe probability of something stupid goes up and while solutions to something simple may be found, they generally end up being ignored.

Against a Snake, it doesn't matter what speed you're moving at. He can go for the FTilt, and you can jump over it. Because Brawl is so slow, he'll see it, not even have to predict it, and just UTilt you and you'll die at like, 100%.

115% roughly.
It isn't that Brawl is slow. Its that the defensive game is much more powerful around not just speed itself.
It is also dependant on which character as is the case with snake whose hitboxes are obscenely broken.
If Snake's hitboxes were more accurate to the animation he would be more easily punished after an Ftilt. Mainly since he has to wait for you to get closer and the little range on his U tilt means less to fear.

I've literally done a case study with the people at my school using Melee. I brought the game into the gamer club, and instantly, I see tons of Links and Roys, with a few Foxes or Sheiks. Now, that was 7 Months ago. Today, we still see one or two links, but they don't sit there doing "Spin it to win it", they move around, combo, grab, gimp, etc. All because when it started out as a ton of people spinning, I told them "Hey, you can just jump, or wait to the attack to end, and then charge in!"

problem is that the case study is quite small.
In the case you have 1 person who says the solution and the small group hears it and acts it out.
With SWF you have hundreds of people whining about said spin attack and a few that say jump over it.
yet because everyone gets caught up int he stupid idea of, WOMG spin attack it takes much longer for it to be solved.
It really shouldn't take a year for something liek Link's spin attack to be figured out.

I brought them Brawl a week after release. We set it to 3 stock, we went to a nice neutral stage. Once Pit started arrow spamming, and Snake was killing at ridiculously low percents, MK was just not letting anyone do anything, etc, they all demanded that Brawl never be brought back to that room ever again.
>.> These players are all 100% American Scrub. But they're educated to see past the game's little "cheap tricks"(Like Spin it to win it, not like Wavedashing), and can see value in the game.

Pit's arrow spam is not something horrible to get past.
Snake kills at low percents naturally but so did Marth, Fox and Sheik in Melee as did Peach. But he has weaknesses just like the top tier characters in melee did.
If you have trouble with MK go Donkey Kong. I hear Donkey Kong is very effective against MK

It takes time to see everything clearly you can't just base something ff from first impressions.
Even then there is usually away to counter the aforementioned tactics or characters.


Just in melee some characters were better against others.
While Brawl is more unbalanced this still remains true and you just have to know which characters to use against them as well as what tactics are effective. You really have to be intimiate with the capabilitiesof the characters.

It doesn't sound like they gave the game much of a chance, more like they are frustrated with the difference in gameplay or how less clear it is to get past those characters.

While its true that people are hopeful, peoples hopes will wain over time. I know I started out hopeful, then after watching Cort dominate everyone that wasn't M2k with Snake, and watching how he played, it just got really depressing that its really as simple as that.

So telll me how did you react to when Falco, Fox, Sheik, Marth began to dominate the scene?
The amount of characters capable of actually dealing with Fox, Sheik, Falco and marth in melee was small just as it is in Brawl. (though Brawl's is smaller I admit)

Look at Gimpy, excellent Bowser but no matte how good his Bowser is it will never be capable of beating with a Marth user that is as good as his Bowser.

This is the same thing, Not many characters can go toe to toe with MK and Snake.
My Sonic definitely won't beat an equally skilled MK.
This is to be expected. You can't say, oh my hopes are crushed because few characters can take on Snake and MK.
It would be similar to saying, oh my hopes are crushed because not many characters can beat Marth in melee.

Wifi can't hold any ground compared to face-to-face tournaments, which is what made this community so strong to begin with. Also, the way the wifi is done is comical, and the timing is completely off. When I can't see my opponent, and I'm not in an atmosphere of a real tournament, just sitting in my room with my wii, playing some random guy over wifi in a tournament that cost me no money to enter, no one new to REALLY meet, and no money on the line, I can't bring myself to play seriously. It just doesn't feel the same.
If the Competitive scene has to thrive on Wifi alone, then its already going downhill >.>.

No you misunderstand. Wifi is not the only thing that the competitive community will thrive on.
Face to face tournaments will always trump those of wifi for any game, however the oppurtunities that wifi presents means that people who normally couldn't go to a tournament may have a chance. They'll have the ability to hone their skills outside of tournaments.
Money is an excellent motivator but I find myself motivated by simply facing people better than me, both on wifi and off.

yes the current usage of wifi tournaments is comical but that is a result of mostly n00bs
hosting them.
Look at the MP:H community. The majority of their tournaments were held on wifi.here is an example of teh alter tournaments.

Rules: Best 2 out of 3
No SF
Imp/non imp according to agreement between competitors.
Stages banned: oubliette, Headshot etc etc
No powerups allowed
battle mode 7 kills
Time limit: 7 minutes
1 week deadline
No excuses.

If there was an issue it was usually decided by the host how the conflict would be resolved.
Either by rematch or by having another person observe the battle or replay would be provided.

That attitude wouldn't hinder the people who are serious about being competitive, the same way all the scrubs in melee kept bashing competitive players, the scene would only grow, because it was strong.
=| So, for the sake of Brawl's scene, I would hope the pessimism isn't getting to them.
XD It doesn't stop me from "Competitive Brawling".
-DD

I think it actually does get to them since the pessimistic attitude is much more outspoken than it would have been a few years back so it can scare off others.

 

[Zankoku]

AlphaZealot, please test your play in a local tournament. I look forward to seeing the performance.

I'm being completely serious, too. I'm interested in the characters I don't see much of placing well, like Zero Suit Samus and Zelda.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Hmm I would like to go to a tournament.
Now that spring semester is over maybe I can start going again...

 

[fkacyan]

AlphaZealot, please test your play in a local tournament. I look forward to seeing the performance.

I'm being completely serious, too. I'm interested in the characters I don't see much of placing well, like Zero Suit Samus and Zelda.

Snakeee and Shadow (ZSS and Meta Knight) got second in a very close match vs M2K and Velocity.

I think a ZSS came in 4th a month or so ago at some tourney.

Aside from that, not much besides Snake and MK. However, I'm sure ways to counter those two will come around eventually.

 

[Zankoku]

Snakeee is one I'm watching closely. I think he split for first at one of the NYC Weeklies.

 

[LavisFiend]

Zelda is a beast.

How is she not placing well?! XD

 

[Sonic XD]

Zelda is a beast.

How is she not placing well?! XD

She is actually slow, only good for KOing enemies.

 

[Snakeee]

Snakeee is one I'm watching closely. I think he split for first at one of the NYC Weeklies.

Two weeklies ...once with PC Chris and the other with my brother (Shadow)

Anyway, I like this thread and I think Brawl will grow competitively. I really don't think it will come down to a bunch of MK's, Snakes, DDD's, etc. in the long run. However, there will obviously be tiers, horrendous match ups, and characters that will be almost impossible to win with.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Thats really has nothing to do with brawl being good, it has to do with having 11.41 million wii's sold in America. and about half of those have a copy of brawl in them. if the gamecube sold this well initially I have no doubt Melee would have sold close to this well. (Because nintendo has NEVER EVER EVER hyped a game this much in the companies entire life span)

I never said it had anything to do with Brawl's quality... I merely going off how Nintendo will more than likely keep the franchise going because of its success in all three generations that it has been alive. People love Smash Bros and who's to blame them? It brings together the things that people love about all the various Nintendo franchises and puts them in one game. With that in mind, Smash Bros has always been a game that has been marketed towards the casual and the hardcore; something that most video game franchises have a very hard time pulling off.

 

[ExplosiveDuck]

While I do think that Brawl can be as competitive as Melee, the future of it's support by big gaming tours is looking dim.

Why? It's got less of a crowd draw to it, less intensity.

Whether or not "the better player wins" every time, and regardless of there being undisputed champions of the game, professional gaming tours will probably hesitate to pick Brawl up because of it's slower nature. With Melee, everyone from the players to the audience were on their feet, cheering, sweating, screaming for their favorites to win. This is because everything about Melee became so "on the edge" by the time it was hosted so often by competitions. This is because wavedashing and other speed-glitches allowed for 5 breathtaking "wow" moments within a 3 second period.

With Brawl being much slower paced, regardless of the level of skill involved, it's simply not going to garner as much support because it's not as exciting for the tour. People aren't going to be yelling and screaming at OMG moments, people can't recover from a near-impossible recovery and then wavedash across the stage and counter-KO within 4 seconds.

Brawl will have a dedicated group of people who compete and who enjoy hosting and going to tournaments, and that will never change, but as for MLG support, and other big tourney support, it's less likely to be picked up.

Why? Well, to sum up the "problems" with it, Brawl is going to result in an audience of people who sit and bite their nails waiting to see who wins, giving a polite golf-clap to the winner and moving on. It's just not as exciting, and that's a simple and indisputable point.

-Zack

 

[RDK]

Brawl is only limited by our own minds.

Offense beating defense in Brawl: youtube.com/alphazealot

But Brawl IS limited in some ways; you can't argue that Brawl is less limited than Melee. This being said, it begs the question: why should we put up with the inferior game?

All this would be solved if we forgot about Brawl and went back to Melee. Any other smart competitive gaming community would do the same, but for some reason, we refuse to.

Look what happened to Soul Calibur.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

But Brawl IS limited in some ways; you can't argue that Brawl is less limited than Melee. This being said, it begs the question: why should we put up with the inferior game?

All this would be solved if we forgot about Brawl and went back to Melee. Any other smart competitive gaming community would do the same, but for some reason, we refuse to.

Look what happened to Soul Calibur.

RDK, I know you love expressing your hatred for Brawl, but calling it an inferior game is complete conjecture at this point and only your opinion. I wonder if you picked up Melee the first time, not having known any of the advanced techniques, and thought it could have been an incredibly deep and awesome competitive fighting game. Actually, I'm sure the vast majority of Smashers and gamers in general wouldn't have imagined Melee could get as competitive as it is now when they first picked up the game. Melee took years to become what it is now. Even if Brawl is faster than Melee in its evolution, I don't think we've had the game for long enough to come to many conclusions.

I'm just asking that for you, and many other people who posted in this thread, to not judge the future of Brawl off of the 3 months that the game has been released. And if you truly do want to judge the game, then please don't present your opinions as fact.

EDIT: In the interest of keeping this thread neutral on the Melee vs Brawl debate, I deleted something I wrote here that would have probably spurred some trouble.

 

[acv]

i have been playing smash since smash 64 and i had no trouble adapting to melee and again adapting to brawl. yet i have noticed that many people stick with melee since they are good at it and they have no reason to change to brawl where some person they beat in melee can beat them in brawl.