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This has been a one hell of a day. I don't think I've seen debates like this since the early speculation days. Feels good.
So, DARK SAMUS: CHANCE: 3%
WANT: 20%
Dark Samus is already an Assist Trophy, which makes things very hard for her/it. Unless we see a precedent of an Assist Trophy being promoted, I'm going to keep my hopes low. Plus, Samus has a costume based on her/it. That said, she/it does have a bit of popularity, and is probably the most likely Metroid choice after Ridley crashed and burned.
I don't have any connection to her/it as I'm not a Metroid fan. That said, the abilities showcased by her Assist Trophy have me mildly interested.
Young Link actually did a lot better than he did in the original RTC. He's still the least wanted veteran but he actually managed to narrowly beat Pichu in chance, something I never expected. It's also worth noting that we got 62 ratings which is the highest we've had in a while (the Bandit Trio only got 38!). Next up we're rating Dark Samus and predicting what score Jibanyan from Yokai Watch will get tomorrow.
Chance - 1%
There's the double whammy of her being an AT plus a costume for Samus working against her. If we're going the clone or semi-clone route, I expect the dozens of other options to be explored before the team turns to her.
Want - 5%
Only after Ridley, and even then, she's low on the list of characters I'd be interested in seeing.
Chance: 5%
Very sad when 5% is an optimistic rating...anyways...
Four main arguments people will most likely bring up...
-She's a third Samus!
-She's an Assist Trophy!
-She's got no Future!
-Lacks Popularity
'She's just another Samus!'
We've already been over this...Three versions of one character don't matter especially if they differ from each other; Samus and Zero-Suit Samus play COMPLETELY differently even though they are the same person...and Dark Samus would not only play differently than both of them but she is also a different character as well...
Sure, she shares the same name as the Bounty Hunter. However unlike other 'Dark' characters (who are both playable in some form and not Dark Samus) she's not just some magical carbon copy perceived through some sort of magic reflection, She is a completely different entity, that has stolen Samus's Phazon suit and DNA, hence her appearance. Her name is merely a reference to her appearance unlike both dark Pit and Dark Link who are literally Dark versions of their counterparts...
As for her attacks, yes some are the same as Samus such as her Charge Shot and Missles...Some attacks they share such as her Boost Ball, Shinespark and Ice Spreader; Samus doesn't even use in Smash anyways...She's got a dive bomb that is compared to Samus's Screw Attack, but the comparison only stands as they both curl themselves up to do the attack, other than that they are different attacks......however on top of the few attacks they have in common Dark Samus has a multitude of other abilities that Samus doesn't even come close to possessing due to Dark Samus being a superpowered 'Metroid!
Either way it doesn't matter if you view her to be another Samus or not as her moveset differs enough from both Samuses to be her own character...
'She's already an Assist trophy!'
Yes, her role as an Assist trophy does stifle her chances greatly for DLC...But once again we already had a discussion regarding this situation and with these characters ( ) it shows that it is indeed not a be all end all scenario...Remember DLC isn't something that Smash has had before and things can get shaken up quite a bit especially with patching being a thing as well...and things are different now than they were pre-release...Sakurai has changed his mind in the past, and that is true for DLC in general as it wasn't intended to begin with...Assist Trophies still have an advantage since they already have in game models and attacks, and Sakurai could easily implement one of them into a playable character for DLC if he wanted...
'She's got no future!'
Yes, well Dark Samus's future does seem rather dire. Prime 3 has come and gone, and with it so has Dark Samus. In the games she was fueled by the radioactive substance Phazon which was the reason why she was almost as stubborn as Ridley when it comes to staying dead. But Phazon was ultimately destroyed at the end of the game as well as seemingly Dark Samus...however I have some of my own thoughts on the matter...
WARNING: PLOT RELATED THEORIES AND RUMOURS AHEAD!!
Yes, I know I did this with the Midna discussion, just bear with me, people! Phazon is a weird substance as it does have healing properties as seen in various enemies such as both Dark Samus and Ridley. Samus herself was highly exposed to the substance and much like Ridley she still survived after it has been eliminated...Though Dark Samus wasn't always a phazon fueled Alien Powerhouse she was once a humble metroid that was heavily mutated by the substance, both Ridley and Samus have had their share of mutations but yet they still survived after it's departure. Dark Samus, unlike both Samus and Ridley, as a metroid was exposed to Phazon for a verrrrrrrry long time...one could argue long enough to develop a strong enough dependence for the substance but also long enough for evolution to do it's thing...Dark Samus has also absorbed Samus's Phazon suit giving her a stable exoskeleton...Dark samus may have evolved to the point where she is capable of surviving without Phazon (with the help of the Phazon Suit) and may even retain some of her 'powers' that she gained from both the Phazon Suit and Phazon itself...This is just a theory (A GAAAMME THEOR...srry) and I could be talking complete garbage, but the thing people need to remember Retro is likely working on the next Metroid game (thank god) and it could very well be likely that the next game will be a Prime 4 (there was an opening at the end of Prime 3 suggesting more stuff happening afterwards, with no official word on what or who's ship that is although many rumours suggest it is Sylux)...Either way with the very slight possibility that Dark Samus can make a return and the possibility that Retro is working on another Prime...
The possibility for Dark Samus's return is still there people!
PLOT RELATED THEORIES AND RUMOURS END
Either way her inclusion into Smash may or may not be affected by her unclear future. Afterall people are calling for K Rool that hasn't been in a DKC game for ages but yet they still want him (he just doesn't have the NPC barrier to break like Dark Samus which is really the only advantage he has in that regard) Metroid's 30th Anniversary is coming up and god forbid Nintendo actually tries to do something special for the Metroid franchise this time, a DLC newcomer is one thing that Sakurai could do as a simple nod to the Primes (I know it's wishful thinking but still)...
'Lacks Popularity'
The only real reason for this is because she is being overshadowed by Ridley. It is no secret that the Metroid franchise could use another representative, and the first character on everyone's mind in that regard is Ridley because of the whole controversy. But here's the thing, Dark Samus doesn't have the same set backs as Ridley, she's got the same general body shape and size of samus. In a hypothetical case where Ridley actually got into Smash. The support for Dark Samus would drastically increase simply because, she has enough presence within the Franchise since she's teh main antagonist of the Primes.
At the end of the day Dark Samus has way to much going against her than for her. She resembles Samus...kinda sorta but not really...she's an assist trophy...her biggest obstacle obviously, I would've rated her Chance score around 70-80% if she wasn't (as she would've had a lot of bandwagoning support as well), but that is just a currently an 'unconfirmed' made up rule that an NPC can't get the promotion to playable...she has no future...worth noting, but not necessarily, also so did several other characters that are currently on the Roster...
I also hate to say it, but one last thing to mention is that she is an American creation. Retro studios is an American developer (Retro is still a first party developer btw so Nintendo still has full rights to use her)...apart from Little Mac every other character was developed in Japan. It is also worth noting that Metroid itself isn't quite as popular in Japan (Miyamoto stated that most fans of the franchise in Japan are hardcore Sci-Fi fanatics) and that statement is even more true for the likes of the Primes, which people seem to call them 'westernized' metroid games...However, obviously Sakurai has respected her enough to actually put her in the game with a functional model with attacks and everything...If anything, Metroid's international popularity is just more reason to put her in the roster for more international diversity, because Sakurai, not everyone that plays Smash lives in Japan!!
Overall her score is quite small...but not 0% which is A COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC RATING for any character that is not Goku, Master Cheif, or Ronald McDonald ...seriously guys...
----
Want: 1000000%
Surprise!! Y'know seeing as I was really the only person actually nominating her this whole time (I know there was like a couple others here and there but I stayed consistent!!!!)...
(Just to let you know how much I care about this character I've pre-re-written this entire rating both chance and want several times)
Before anybody even starts! She's not just an excuse for 'muh reps' if that's what you're thinking, as the Primes are a huge part of the Metroid franchise and has actually put the series back on the map upon the release of Prime 1! Dark Samus was not only the main Antagonist (and has actually made Ridley her b*tch!) But she IS Metroid Prime...no seriously, she literally is...She's actually the title character of the Trilogy if that doesn't tell you how important she is when it comes to Metroid well then (please leave)...She is also considered THE most powerful entity with the Metroid Universe and has been the single greatest threat to both Samus and the Galactic Federation! Mother Brain's got nothing on this Doppelganger of Galactic Destruction!
Bringing Dark Samus into Smash gives us a playable representative for the Prime series...the same way Dr. Mario, Toon Link, Bowser Jr. and Rosalina would representat their respective side series (I guess you could put Sheik in there to represent OoT as well)...Don't even start with Metroid Prime is not Super Mario Galaxy, or some bull, the Prime Trilogy are some of the most innovative games from the franchise to date, (while Metroid Prime is the best selling game of the franchise, and all of the Primes together makes up more than a third of total sales) they deserve the recognition and in smash 4 all they got is Dark Samus as an Assist Trophy and some alternate colours....great to see these critically acclaimed games get good treatment in a Video game meant to celebrate Nintendo's History...
(tries to hide bitterness)
Ahem...Well, Either way...YES! In case you haven't noticed, I love the Primes! Immersing yourself within the environments scanning and collecting data and unlocking really cool artwork (inspired me to become a concept artist, for which I am still in hobby status) Insanely Awesome Boss Fights from the Omega Pirate, Grapple Guardian, Chykka, Quadraxis, OMEGA FREAKKIN RIDLEY, Emporer Ing, and of course Metroid Prime/Dark Samus...
Encountering Dark Samus for the first time was such an experience, especially with that brilliant theme song that just set the mood so well! The battle was so intense and so...different...I mean Samus is usually fighting these colossal monstrosities and now she's battling something her size, but yet even more dangerous than most other creatures she's faced befre! Dark Samus was such a mystery to begin with, 'What is this thing that looks like me and why is it so goddam strong?!' Then her surprise battle at the end of Prime 2 where she reveals herself to be the Metroid Prime that Samus fought on Tallon IV, and with the imminent destruction of a planet and even more intense music just summed up the game quite nicely!
Her moveset potential as I've mentioned before is out of this world (get it because she's an alien and she's from outer space, ok I'll stop...); Levitation, Parasitic Possession, Phazon Manipulation, Teleportation, Invisibility, Invincibility, duplication, high speeds, high power, high BADASSERY!...And she would also bring a very unique persona to the roster being an actual alien! Sure Olimar and the Kirby crew are 'aliens' but they're more 'cute and cuddly' where we have Dark Samus who is a true extra terrestrial being with cold calculating and cunning intelligence. And her mutated and almost zombie-like posture just adds to her whole appeal. Both Ganondorf and Mewtwo bring a certain amount of intimidation to the roster but Dark Samus (with that bone-chilling laugh I might add) brings that intimidation on a whole nother level!
----
Prediction: 13.5% Jibanyan
Isn't he like the new Pikachu of Japan or something?...
Wow, I feel like we were just talking about characters who would exist as essentially a third version of an original 8 member who would absolutely not possibly be a clone of said member at all.
Hmm, déjà vu...
Anyhow, DS may be a bit more likely, considering she'd be an easy enough semi-clone, so there could be a few liberties taken with the moveset without upsetting anyone. There are really only two major drawbacks: one that Samus already has a DS recolor, which is easy enough to ignore - the Pit pair have each other as recolors; and two, DS is already an assist. But see the previous ratings for that - it's incredibly easy to comment out a single assist character.
Dark Samus also has a benefit in the fact that Metroid desperately needs more representation, which few other series (all of which are Western-centric...) can say. And with the main candidate out of the picture (or not, depending on how things go...anything is possible), she is probably getting likely. After all, there are not too many other notable Metroid characters.
But against her also is the standard argument - too many same-characters. We've rated a third version each of , not including the potential of two moveset clones of . While the scores have been all over the place, we've pretty much made it clear that we don't favor a third version of a single character in the game. Do we need another Samus now?
Finally, we don't favor clones, so why would we pay for it? Really, the only way I can see her getting in is if Nintendo higher-ups lean on Sakurai to put in Metroid content since it's requested, and he throws her in since it's easy to do and he doesn't care enough to make Metroid content. And that could allow him to 'prove' that it doesn't sell well, and that no Gaijin stuff should be DLC. Yeah, that's catastrophizing, but Sakurai's done weirder things...
Want: 0%
Yes, the Metroid series needs more representation, but this is not the way to do it. Dark Samus is perfect as a palette swap and assist. We do not need a third Samus running around, we don't need more new semi-clones, no.
If we want another Metroid rep, there's a clear winner sitting 4th place in want right now despite being in the game in a separate role. But with the love the series gets, I'd be surprised to even see anything.
A Samus clone? Now that's actually an interesting setup for a clone.
Dark Samus
Chance: 1%
I will forever and always give ATs this chance only because Sakurai never said anything about ATs becoming playable. If so, higher considering if you look at her animations, it's Samus to a T even her Up-Smash as well.
Want:90%
Yep, that surprising considering I don't give characters like these high wants but damn Metroid needs something and Dark Samus while a clone would be more unique than any other would.
Yeah I'm going to skip Dark Samus completely, it's going to be a whole nother 3 versions of a character again I'd had to deal with. It's still a third incarnation of the same character, but that likely wouldn't matter if she was to be somehow considered again. Only way I can see her having a shot is if a new Metroid Prime happens with her as the rival again, but it hasn't happened yet.
Nominations:
x5
(Let's not rate Bayonetta yet the day after, I had a long day here.)
I need a quick break for one day.
Chance: 1% Assist Trophy who has an alternate costume that already is confusing as is for what would be her base look. Only appeared in 2 Metroid games.
Want: 20% Could have some interesting attacks but I really didn't care for her or her games of origin. Nothing that interests me.
+A very cool character
+Amongst the Assist Trophies people are hating on Sakurai for. MAKE THIS CHARACTER PLAYABLE RATHER THAN AT!!!
-The fact it is a pallete swap and AT is what brings its chances down to nigh nothingness. Basically, it can be assumed Dark Samus was considered before being thrown right into the trash.
-2 Samuses exist already. 3 makes a crowd.
+ She can be easy to do a model (they already have somethings to work).
+ Potential to be a character look-like but without be a clone.
+ The Main Antagonist from a Succesful Trilogy.
- She is already a AT.
- Metroid is only loved in Japan for Western-Things Lovers, and Sci-Fi hardcore fans... Specially the Prime Trilogy.
Chance: 5%
Considering Ridley's situation, I'd say she's the Metroid character that stands out the most. However, until I see an assist trophy of Smash 4 promoted to playable dlc character, her chances shall remain low at least for me.
Want: 70%
Back in the Brawl days, I was against the idea of Dark Samus, but times sure have changed (I had no idea who she was). Honestly, I'd prefer having Samus and Dark Samus than what we have right now (Samus & ZSS), since in my opinion Dark Samus has achieved many more merits than ZSS who's basically only used until you get a suit and isn't seen again.
Dark Samus:
Chance: 15%
I've never really understood the whole "(s)he's already a [insert role character plays here], it's not happening" argument. People used that argument against Toon Link and Miis, and that didn't hold up too well. Plus, Riki is an assist trophy and also apart of Shulk's final smash, another clear example of 1 character playing 2 roles in this game. Unless somebody has proof of this being an actual criteria stated by Sakurai or Nintendo, I'm giving her the benifit of the doubt... which sadly isn't much because even if what I'm saying is true, she still has poor support.
Want: 30%
She's a bland character to me, but the way she's presented as an assist trophy makes feel that I'd like playing as her... Or "him"...
Dark Samus
Chance- 2%
This could change a lot of there were, or is in the future, precedent for promoting ATs within the same game. As it is, there is not.
Want- 10%
Sorry, I can't say I'm that interested. In better news, it would set a precedent for promoted ATs, so there we go.
I've never really understood the whole "(s)he's already a [insert role character plays here], it's not happening" argument. People used that argument against Toon Link and Miis, and that didn't hold up too well. Plus, Riki is an assist trophy and also apart of Shulk's final smash, another clear example of 1 character playing 2 roles in this game. Unless somebody has proof of this being an actual criteria stated by Sakurai or Nintendo, I'm giving her the benifit of the doubt... which sadly isn't much because even if what I'm saying is true, she still has poor support.
Toon Link played a completely non-obtrusive, background role in his stage. Miis are highly customizable to begin with. The Riki summoned from an Assist Trophy and the one summoned from Shulk's Final Smash will never be on screen at the same time. There has never been a playable fighter who has that kind of role overlap, especially not when Assist Trophies are characters who were deemed not fit to be a fighter to begin with.
Chance: 1%. Already had pretty minimal support, being turned an AT along with the Prime series' lack of a forseeable future make this a pipe dream, to say the least.
Want: 45%. The only good option for a Metroid character after Ridley. Initially I was skeptical, but the more I realized Dark Samus really does have enough tools to be a totally unique character if Sakurai wanted; plus, she's not just Dark Samus, but Metroid Prime, too, and would be an entirely western-created character on the roster, a role which is currently only fulfilled by Diddy Kong. Her Assist Trophy is well-animated and fun, too, which makes me think she'd fit in well. I'd probably bump this up 5-10% if it wasn't for the fact that I don't really want three Metroid characters with Samus in their names. (Though maybe they could call her Metroid Prime, but I doubt it.)
Chance: 4%
An abomination impersonating the Hunter. At the end of Metroid Prime, the eponymous creature, with her last breath, ripped the Phazon from Samus' armor, using it as a shell to regenerate within. Further mutated and now bearing a replica of Samus' armor and weapons, the creature-turned-doppelganger became a major force through the rest of the trilogy. She's a pretty interesting character, all things considered, and well liked by the Metroid fanbase.
But as we've seen with so many other characters now, that alone can't overcome her flaws. The fact that she's currently an Assist Trophy is a massive setback. In order for her to have a chance, the developers will have to be willing to either re-write the code of the base game to remove her or have her appear in both playable and summonable forms...something I'm not entirely convinced they're comfortable doing. Furthermore, despite being a creature of Phazon whose weaponry are Phazon-based in nature, her armor and many of her techniques are based off Samus. She could lend more toward being a semi-clone of Samus than a distinct character...which is a risky move for most and an especially risky one for an NPC.
To say no less about her shaky Ballot support and the fact that some fans get caught up on the idea of a "third Samus".
If it weren't for that Assist Trophy, or if that fact turned out to not matter, she'd have a compelling case. As it stands, though, her chances are...corrupted.
Want: 35%
Kind of interesting, for a number of reasons. I'm not as big on her as with a couple other Metroid characters, but I wouldn't be averse to seeing her get in.
Jibanyan Prediction: 10.25%
Total shot in the dark. There'll be a lot of lower ratings due to being from a newer third party franchise that hasn't made it westward yet...but I can also see some high ones from those who're already into the series.
Nominations: Absol x10!
Nailed another prediction. It's almost as if I...saw the future?
Dark Samus's chances of appearing as a DLC fighter are quite slim because she is already an assist trophy in the game, so incorporating as an actual fighter would be hard to do. It might require them to completely get rid of the Dark Samus assist trophy to achieve this, but there's another problem. One of Samus's alternate costumes is a Dark Samus color, and a pretty good one at that. Incorporating Dark Samus as a fighter would still be complicated because players could easily be confused by a Samus alt with the same coloring, and that would also require having to come up with a completely new recolor for Samus. It might be extreme, but that's the only way Dark Samus can make her way on the Smash roster. However, I believe the Dark Samus alt is there so that players can feel as if they really are playing as Dark Samus.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the reason her chances aren't 0% is because she is one of the most requested Metroid characters out there, apparently being third place behind Ridley.
Want: 5%
Sadly, Metroid characters aren't particularly in my field of wishes for Smash Bros DLC, but between Ridley and Dark Samus, I'd prefer to see Dark Samus.
Nominations:
Jean Descole (Professor Layton): x3 Gallade (Pokemon): x2
Dark SamusWant: 100% I have wanted this character since the days brawl. If theres no ridley dark samus at the very least deserves a spot.chance: 0% ****ING ASSIST TROPHYYY!! >A<*
Nomination: Mighty Gazelle x5
Dark Samus chances: 0.62%
She's already an Assist Trophy, which I think makes her an unlikely choice due to the very possible meaning that she's not playable material from Sakurai's perspective, and I doubt she has any real shot unless Sakurai is willing to reconsider her. (I doubt any Assist Trophy in SSB4 was ever planned to be playable personally, maybe considered at most.) Plus it's not like she's super popular or requested, with Ridley literally stomping any other potential Metroid newcomer in both categories even after how harshly Sakurai deconfirmed him... speaking of which, at least she doesn't suffer from Ridley's design related issues. However, she already has her model and some moves and animations already done through her Assist Trophy, which gives her an slight advantage over many other potential candidates if it means she would require less work than others.
I think the fact Sakurai already rejected her once by giving her an Assist Trophy status, her lack of relevance RECENCY!!!!1!1!! for the Metroid series as a whole outside of the Prime games, and her relative lack of support from the Smash and Metroid fanbase make her a long shot, and to add to injury regular Samus already has a Dark Samus palette swap. The potentially reusable assets are pretty much her only saving grace. And maybe her uniqueness as well? I don't know, I'm not far enough in the Metroid Prime trilogy to see if her boss battle moves and Samus' Phazon-based abilities she could borrow from her (since Phazon is all what the character is about) give her enough potential to make her a unique fighter without having to create too many made-up moves.
Dark Samus want: abstain
As I already mentioned, I'm not far enough in the Metroid Prime trilogy to judge her in want.
Jibanyan prediction: 13.44%
Early in this RTC DLC edition I saw some people nominating him; I was like "Who?" and it actually happens that he's actually the star of a new craze from Level-5, the same company which gave us Professor Layton. Except that it hadn't been imported in the West yet. (The craze I mean, not the series itself.) I guess those who are fully aware of how popular Yōkai Watch is in Japan will give respectably high scores.
Nominating:
Concept: Battlefield form stages x4
Playable newcomer: Tetrimino x1
and wow. I'm pretty positive Young Link's day set an all-time RTC record for sheer number of posts, even more than Roy. That was quite the experience to read.
Dark Samus.
Chances - 1.5% Having a role already destroys the chances here. Maybe it will be a in the conversation for the next game if the next Metroid game gives Dark Samus a major role, although I also think Ridley will be a strong contender yet again next time.
Want - 75%, if unique as it has no reason not to be. the Metroid Prime Trilogy is my single favorite disc of all-time, and Dark Samus is the only feasible 3rd (*cough* technically 2nd to me) Metroid character. Ridley will always be bae though.
Dark Samus - (dark version of an existing character)
Chance: 5% - Yeah, her chances don't look too well considering she's both an assist trophy and an alt for Samus. Helpful for her though, she isn't too big, like Ridely is (on another note, I never understood the "too big" argument. I mean, look at Bowser in the Galaxy games, and Sunshine, he's freaking huge). Speaking of Ridely, her ballot support isn't quite as big as his, so that's something to take away from...
Want: 25% - Eh, Metroid could use a bit more, but I don't think Dark Samus is exactly what the series needs. While Samus and Zero Suit Samus might be the same person, they play WAY to differently to even be compared, but I can't say the same for Samus and Dark Samus. Also, I have to be honest, Ridely would be a much better option in my opinion, even if he is deemed "too big."
Predictions: Why the characters that I don't know. Is research in order here? I believe it is. Well, I'll go 11%, but I honestly can't say how well he'd do...
Young link beat pichu? That just isnt right to me :/ mostly from it's high popularity in japan
Chance .0001
assist trophy
Want 100%
Just becauss it LOOKS like samus doesnt mean it will PLAY like samus. Daek samus has plenty of cool energy attacks and i would love to play as the dark hunter. Easily the 2nd best choice for a metroid character
Prediction
chance of people not doing research 100%
Errr i mean jibanyan 4%
That other prominent Metroid villain stated to be dead for good, both in Smash and Metroid and no that ship in Corruption's 100 ending has no reason to be DS.
Dark Samus
Chance: 2%
I'd love to give DS higher chances, but the reality is that it's an Assist Trophy. I'm not sold on the idea that the devs would invest time to promote a character already an Assist Trophy to playable. At least, not in this game. :4littemac:
Want: 90%
I'll take any sort of Metroid content as DLC, but the only reason I'm not giving DS 100% is that I have my concerns that it wouldn't be unique enough to justify making a third Samus. Give the Metroid lineup something new.
I've been nominating Jibanyan so long, I'm gonna nominate x5 Viridi for the sake of taking a break. I recommend tthe same to those who don't know what to do with their noms.
I've been nominating Jibanyan so long, I'm gonna nominate x5 Viridi for the sake of taking a break. I recommend tthe same to those who don't know what to do with their noms.