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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Clumsyzephyr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
339
Location
Arizona
Well, this is the first time I believe I've ever posted in this thread. Considering that I just started replaying these games, I felt kinda obligated to post in here.

Chance: 5%

Want: 100%

While I adore the character and have quite a bit of nostalgia for the series, I just can't see it getting anything more than a mii costume at best. IMO, I believe at this point that a Bamco rep will be from the Tales series if they get one. I'd love to see Klonoa get in though, and see what kind of wacky moveset they'd create for him.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,979
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Wahoo

Chance: 1% Klonoa's a very unfortunate character imo, he's beloved amongst his fans and had quite a bit of support in Smash 4 when people were worried Pac-Man would use his Ghostly Adventures design but other than those, he really has an uphill battle. He's very niche, has a handful of games with no new games coming out soon afaik, his movie keeps getting pushed back and worst of all, he has quite a bit of competition within Namco. There's Heihachi who although out of the running, is from one of the biggest franchises Namco has, Nightmare, a decently popular request from a franchise that's more beloved amongst Smash fans than Klonoa from what I can tell, likely due to Soul Calibur 2, Dark Souls which became gigantic in a rather short time and worst of all, Tales, which isn't just huge but also has Lloyd, a decade long Smash request with a fandom who's still as strong and vocal as ever. With this much competition, it's hard to see Nintendo picking the smallest franchise amongst the the ones I listed and I feel Sakurai would be more interested in adding the other characters who even at their most basic level have more to bring to the table than Klonoa.

Want: Abtsain, I'm very unfamiliar outside of Caddicarus' videos on the ps1 original and it's been ages since I saw either of them, though he's cute and some of my friends want him.

Miriam x5
 

Neosonic97

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
304
Klonoa

Chance: 1%
It COULD happen? But it's probably not going to. Klonoa is kind of a dead series. On top of that, there are many other Bamco Reps that they have to compete with, most notably Heihachi (Tekken), Nightmare (Soul Calibur), Lloyd (Tales) and Agumon (Digimon) who all have much greater appeal and demand (As well as their series being, y'know, not dead). It's just probably not happening, unfortunately.

Want: Abstain.

I'm pretty sure I played one of Klonoa's games once upon a time, but it's been so long since then that I just don't know whether I'd want them or not.

Speaking of Agumon...

Noms: Agumon x5
 
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YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,123
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Dream a Dream...:
Chance: 2%

In terms of Namco rivals, Klonoa has...well loads actually.
We've got Lloyd, Nightmare, Agumon, Heihachi, Chosen Undead, Don-chan, Mametchi...in fact the only reason Klonoa doesn't have more is because characters like Goku, Luffy and Naruto don't originate from a video game.

However, I'll be honest when I personally think of Namco, it's Pac-Man and then immedietly after Klonoa. Then like...Nightmare I guess. His design is fantastic and for the lucky few who played his titles, well...let's just say Klonoa is a game with a lot of twists without spoiling the ending. For those who played it Klonoa no doubt will stick with them...

...alas, his games are niche and he hasn't had a new one in 12 years, which is a longer period than he was active.

Want: 75%
In terms of biggest Bandai Namco want, Agumon is the King for me, but Klonoa is one of the few other Namco characters I'd actually want to see.

I personally don't care about Lloyd even if I think his game is decent, and whilst I love Soul Calibur I have no desire to see a character from it in Smash. Not even Cervantes and he's a zombie pirate which is cool as hell. Klonoa however is a lovable little mascot who I feel more people need to experience the game of because MY GOD THAT TWIST. IT'S SO SAD.

Nominations:
...actually you know what; speaking of Namco Bandai, I'm nominating Mametchi(Tamagotchi) X 5. Agumon has already got people rooting for him, but what about the OTHER virtual pet who just so happened to go Go Kart racing with Mario and Pac-Man?
 

Doomguy46

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
105
So how is Heavy any different? Minigun is all he has going for, right? All he does is stand there and pull trigger. How is that interesting?
This discussion was a while back so if mods want to remove that's fine. But the difference is heavy is much quicker, more animated and melee based, something the chief cant really boast. Heavy is far from a conventional gun man.



Also, in reply to today's
Chance: 1%
want: 0%

I had to google this character as I had not heard of them until now. He doesn't seem to have much hype. He's not had activity in the gaming world for a while, only real news is a film and webcomic. I really don't forsee such a niche character getting in smash especially considering his only interaction with Nintendo was seemingly a GBA game. But hey, sakurai's done weirder.
 
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SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,723
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
My Baby Boy
Alright, here we go. A lot of you are probably wondering, "What the **** is a Klonoa?!" And honestly... That's a pretty reasonable question.

Klonoa is a series of 2.5D platformers, taking place on a 2D plane but branching out into multiple different paths, rendered in 3D. Gameplay revolves around Klonoa's Wind Ring, which he uses to shoot Wind Bullets. Despite the name, they're more of a grab than anything. They inflate enemies and Klonoa holds them above his head; After that, he can throw them to either side, the background, or the foreground.

Klonoa stars the eponymous Klonoa, a floppy-eared cat-rabbit thing (Canonically he's supposed to be a cat). Other important characters include the Ring Spirit Heupow, the priestess-in-training Lolo, and the bounty hunter Guntz. Klonoa seems to have the same character, but different settings, a la Ys. This is because Klonoa is a dream traveler, destined to travel across different worlds in danger. This is something he might not even know, though we'll never known at the rate because of the franchises' dormancy. More on that later.

While only the first game is set in Phantomile, Klonoa is referred to as a Phantomilian and so is the language everyone speaks. Yep, the games have their own language. Heck, they even sang a song in that language.
They gave an option for standard English in the Wii remake of Door to Phantomile, but uh... I feel like they could've found a more fitting VA for Klonoa.

Regardless of the setting, Klonoa is also known for being quite tragic. This is first showcased in the especially cruel twists in the first game, Door to Phantomile. His grandpa gets bombed to death, it turns out all his memories are faked so that he can stop the villain Ghadius and the monster Nahatomb, and at the end he's sucked into a portal without warning, with the heavy implication that he won't ever see Huepow again.

Yeah, cute and cuddly, amirite?

It should also be noted that the Wind Ring requires an energy source to function, usually a friend who inhabits it. In the first game, this was Huepow, while in the second, it was Lolo. Seems like pretty good taunt material to me. Beyond that, he can float a little by flapping his ears, giving a bit of extra height to his jump. He also has a few extra weapons, such as the Wind Sword, the Hammer, the Arm Cannons, the Boomerang, and the Beam Gnome (Actually a shield on a stick, basically).

Klonoa is a beloved and charming series. Despite that, it was a flop, in no small part because Bandai Namco refused to advertise their own product. Yes, everyone's sure to buy the game they don't know exists, brilliant marketing strategy, guys. As such, he barely lasted more than a decade. Despite this, Klonoa has had a couple appearances outside his home games. He's appeared in Namco X Capcom, he got a webcomic in 2014 (Which was sadly cancelled as the website went down), and an anime that was announced in 2016... Which was also cancelled after three years of radio silence.

Pain

Regardless of the suffering, we might just have a spark of hope. Recently, a trademark for "Klonoa Encore" was filed, alongside Mr. Driller and Splatterhouse. This matches up with Katamari Damacy REROLL, which had the Encore subtitle in Japan. In fact, Mr. Driller Encore has actually released, giving more credence to Klonoa Encore. As of current, the trademark has been given a Japanese registration certificate, as seen here:
There was a problem fetching the tweet
The last step after this would be an American/European certificate. If the Mr. Driller trademark is any indication, that should come in about four months, followed by an announcement two months after that. Then again, COVID has fricked us all, so I'm setting my projections for 2021 and waiting to see what happens.

With everything the little guy has, I'll have to give him a 15%.

...Sigh. Even with my bias, optimism, low bar of entry, and habitual overrates, 15% is all I can muster for this guy, and that's pushing it. Poor guy's just outclassed and in dormancy. Which is a darn shame, because unless the big writeup didn't tip you off, my want score is a full 100%. Just looking at the games gives me a flash of nostalgia for a game I didn't know about until a couple years ago. I see gameplay and go, "Why couldn't I have grown up with this?" Here's some gameplay of the Wii version, for some perspective.

For the last of my nominations, I nominate Adol Christin x15.

And so concludes my rating days. There were some fun times here, but in the end, I'm just not made for debates. My bar of entry is low and my ratings tend to be too high, and half the time I'm not good at explaining my points. I'll probably drop in here from time to time to give another writeup for someone I think needs more attention, but I'm a regular no longer. Sayonara, everyone.
 
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Lionfranky

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
1,042
This discussion was a while back so if mods want to remove that's fine. But the difference is heavy is much quicker,
False. Even if you ignore Halo lore, there are plenty of visual showcase of Chief's agility.


more animated
Another false. There are tons of assassination animation from Halo 5 alone. Yes, that all attributes to Chief.

and melee based, something the chief cant really boast. Heavy is far from a conventional gun man.
Energy Sword, Gravity Hammer, combat knife, Spartan Charge, Ground pound, CQC, Nicole's move from DOA4. Now tell me. How is Heavy even remotely closed to Chief in terms of melee? Hell. There are better melee types like Spy and Scouts in TF2.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
My Baby Boy
Alright, here we go. A lot of you are probably wondering, "What the **** is a Klonoa?!" And honestly... That's a pretty reasonable question.

Klonoa is a series of 2.5D platformers, taking place on a 2D plane but branching out into multiple different paths, rendered in 3D. Gameplay revolves around Klonoa's Wind Ring, which he uses to shoot Wind Bullets. Despite the name, they're more of a grab than anything. They inflate enemies and Klonoa holds them above his head; After that, he can throw them to either side, the background, or the foreground.

Klonoa stars the eponymous Klonoa, a floppy-eared cat-rabbit thing (Canonically he's supposed to be a cat). Other important characters include the Ring Spirit Heupow, the priestess-in-training Lolo, and the bounty hunter Guntz. Klonoa seems to have the same character, but different settings, a la Ys. This is because Klonoa is a dream traveler, destined to travel across different worlds in danger. This is something he might not even know, though we'll never known at the rate because of the franchises' dormancy. More on that later.

While only the first game is set in Phantomile, Klonoa is referred to as a Phantomilian and so is the language everyone speaks. Yep, the games have their own language. Heck, they even sang a song in that language.
They gave an option for standard English in the Wii remake of Door to Phantomile, but uh... I feel like they could've found a more fitting VA for Klonoa.

Regardless of the setting, Klonoa is also known for being quite tragic. This is first showcased in the especially cruel twists in the first game, Door to Phantomile. His grandpa gets bombed to death, it turns out all his memories are faked so that he can stop the villain Ghadius and the monster Nahatomb, and at the end he's sucked into a portal without warning, with the heavy implication that he won't ever see Huepow again.

Yeah, cute and cuddly, amirite?

It should also be noted that the Wind Ring requires an energy source to function, usually a friend who inhabits it. In the first game, this was Huepow, while in the second, it was Lolo. Seems like pretty good taunt material to me. Beyond that, he can float a little by flapping his ears, giving a bit of extra height to his jump. He also has a few extra weapons, such as the Wind Sword, the Hammer, the Arm Cannons, the Boomerang, and the Beam Gnome (Actually a shield on a stick, basically).

Klonoa is a beloved and charming series. Despite that, it was a flop, in no small part because Bandai Namco refused to advertise their own product. Yes, everyone's sure to buy the game they don't know exists, brilliant marketing strategy, guys. As such, he barely lasted more than a decade. Despite this, Klonoa has had a couple appearances outside his home games. He's appeared in Namco X Capcom, he got a webcomic in 2014 (Which was sadly cancelled as the website went down), and an anime that was announced in 2016... Which was also cancelled after three years of radio silence.

Pain

Regardless of the suffering, we might just have a spark of hope. Recently, a trademark for "Klonoa Encore" was filed, alongside Mr. Driller and Splatterhouse. This matches up with Katamari Damacy REROLL, which had the Encore subtitle in Japan. In fact, Mr. Driller Encore has actually released, giving more credence to Klonoa Encore. As of current, the trademark has been given a Japanese registration certificate, as seen here:
There was a problem fetching the tweet
The last step after this would be an American/European certificate. If the Mr. Driller trademark is any indication, that should come in about four months, followed by an announcement two months after that. Then again, COVID has fricked us all, so I'm setting my projections for 2021 and waiting to see what happens.

With everything the little guy has, I'll have to give him a 15%.

...Sigh. Even with my bias, optimism, low bar of entry, and habitual overrates, 15% is all I can muster for this guy, and that's pushing it. Poor guy's just outclassed and in dormancy. Which is a darn shame, because unless the big writeup didn't tip you off, my want score is a full 100%. Just looking at the games gives me a flash of nostalgia for a game I didn't know about until a couple years ago. I see gameplay and go, "Why couldn't I have grown up with this?" Here's some gameplay of the Wii version, for some perspective.

And so concludes my rating days. There were some fun times here, but in the end, I'm just not made for debates. My bar of entry is low and my ratings tend to be too high, and half the time I'm not good at explaining my points. I'll probably drop in here from time to time to give another writeup for someone I think needs more attention, but I'm a regular no longer. Sayonara, everyone.
It's sad to see you go, but at least that's one heck of a post to go out on. See you around man.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
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Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,965
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TCT~Phantom
False. Even if you ignore Halo lore, there are plenty of visual showcase of Chief's agility.



Another false. There are tons of assassination animation from Halo 5 alone. Yes, that all attributes to Chief.


Energy Sword, Gravity Hammer, combat knife, Spartan Charge, Ground pound, CQC, Nicole's move from DOA4. Now tell me. How is Heavy even remotely closed to Chief in terms of melee? Hell. There are better melee types like Spy and Scouts in TF2.
Don't discuss days that have ended. This is off topic discussion and in direct violation of rule 4.
 

Mr. MR

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
115
And so concludes my rating days. There were some fun times here, but in the end, I'm just not made for debates. My bar of entry is low and my ratings tend to be too high, and half the time I'm not good at explaining my points. I'll probably drop in here from time to time to give another writeup for someone I think needs more attention, but I'm a regular no longer. Sayonara, everyone.
I have only been around for a short time but it's still sad to see you leave RTC. I hope you come out of retirement once in a while especially for the rate before and after fighter pass releases.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,723
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
I have only been around for a short time but it's still sad to see you leave RTC. I hope you come out of retirement once in a while especially for the rate before and after fighter pass releases.
I'll drop in occasionally, but not regularly. I'll probably mix it with the writeups I'm intending on doing, so fighters can get more attention. I'll definitely come back for Adol, seeing as he's what I'm using my last noms for. WIth more time in between, hopefully I'll be able to have bigger writeups prepared in advance.

Or maybe I'll just save 'em for the last minute like with Klonoa's
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
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Messages
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TCT~Phantom
If this thread did one thing today, it convinced me to give Klonoa a second chance. I likely will play it sometime this winter on the Wii and see about trying the PS2 version. I am glad I found my Wii Copy because wow, those games have gone up in value. Shame my wii might be dying though it seems to be having graphical issues. Gonna see if I can save it.
 

Calamitas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,689
Location
Germany
"Klon" is the German word for "clone". There is no joke.

Chance: 1%

I can honestly only really echo the sentiments that other people have already brought forward multiple times here. For Klonoa, there is a whole lot of competition within Bandai-Namco, even with a high-profile character like Heihachi out of the running. A Tales Of protagonist or even KOS-MOS I would still see as having a far greater chance than he does. And of course, that is without even getting into the question of whether or not Bandai-Namco is going to even get a new character, which, for seven DLC packs already, has not been the case, and is starting to seem increasingly unlikely. And lastly, there's the statues of his series, which has seen better days in terms of activity. So while not an outright impossibility, I still am pretty unconvinced that Klonoa has any realistic chance of making it in.

Want: Abstain
I have no personal experience with the series in any capacity. I kinda like his character design, but that's about it, really.

Predicting Moogle to get around 0.73%

Nominating Concept: A Bravely Default character x10.
 

Mr. MR

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
115
Unfortunately I have to abstain on this one.
I never played a Klonoa game but I'm open to try one eventually.

Noms: Impa x5
Predict: 3.14%
 

Sid-cada

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,784
Klonoa

Chance - 0.5% - Rumors about a remake aside, Klonoa has very little going for him. Klona hasn't been active for over a decade, and Klonoa doesn't have the sort of history to make that up. The fact than Namco has such fierce completion does not help matters; Most of Namco's franchise are at least active and are ones most people have heard. It's hard to find wriggle room in that instance. especially when Namco has been remarkably modest when it comes to adding content outside of it's classic library.

Want - 50% - Eh... take him or leave him. I don't particularly care that much.


Nominations

Arle Nadja X5
 

amageish

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,558
Klonoa

Chance: 3%. You know, if you told me when Smash Bros Ultimate was first announced that (i) in Fall 2020 nobody would be leaving their homes due to a global pandemic and (ii) in Fall 2020 we'd still be speculating about Bandai-Namco's second rep, then I don't know which one would surprise me more. They co-develop the game, but just keep on missing the mark.

And speaking of missing the mark, oh boy is Klonoa the definition of a long-suffering franchise. As everyone else has pointed out, he didn't last too long and Namco just... didn't decide to push him all that much. So, with four slots left, there certainly is a path for Klonoa in Smash. The path is just... very narrow and would likely require Nintendo Namco Rep + Nintendo knowing about an upcoming remake (of a remake) + Nintendo wanting to promote a remake (of a remake? ((of a franchise Namco themselves are known for underpromoting?)))... and... that's just a lot of specific obstacles to overcome.

Want: 80%. I'm not super familiar with him, but everything I've seen/heard looks great! I'll definitely be looking out for the remake and would welcome him in Smash.

Noms: Jill Stingray Costume x5
Prediction: The day is finally coming... Let's just say .5%
 
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Sari

Editing Staff
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Day over.

Rate Moogle from Final Fantasy.

Predict The Prince of All Cosmos from Katamari.

Megadoomer Megadoomer

-----

Here's a video containing all of the Moogle themes across the series:


Also here is the link to the official RTC Discord server

-----

Moogle

Chance: 0.1%
I know Moogle is a series staple but I just don't see them going for it when they could choose one of the more popular human characters like Black Mage, Terra, or Sephiroth. This is if we even get another Final Fantasy character and not someone else from a different Square Enix series.

Want: Abstain
Haven't really gotte into FF so I won't comment.

-----

The Prince chance prediction: 8.11%

Nominations:
Zelda (BotW Universe) x5
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
2,233
Abstaining on the Moogle, but with the competition both in-company and in-franchise I just don't see it happening.

Nominations:
Don-chan x5

Predictions:
Prince of All Cosmos - 10.48% - Expecting "Lloyd or Nothing" to be ever present but aside from that it'll be decent scores all around. Plus with Heihachi out of the running I see ratings rising a bit.
 
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waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,539
Location
Drenthe, NL
Moogle
Chance: 0%
The competition from within Square is just to great. Moogles may be iconic to the FF franchise I guess but you'd have a hard time vouching for a Moogle getting in as a 2nd FF rep, let alone the next Square Enix character. If Slime couldn't get in over the Hero, who is much more iconic to DQ than Moogles are to FF, I don't see a Moogle getten chosen over the more popular humanoid characters.

Want: 0%
Was thinking of abstaining because of my inexperience with Final Fantasy but man, this just feels like a random, blindly throwing a dart at the wall type of pick and not in a good way. I may not have played any Final Fantasy game but even I know that characters like Sephiroth, Terra, a Black Mage or any protagonist from an unrepped FF game are much more ideal. Moogle would give of a strange feelng of Smash not really expanding as a crossover even if more FF content would have to come along with them.

The Prince: 7.19%
The Knight x5
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,123
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Okay, Moogle: Rate your chances
Chance: 3%

Okay, someone NEEDS to rate him or Moogle is going to be the first complete abstain chance character. Okay, someone did just before I hit post. Thanks!

Moogles are one of the great video game species mascots of our time alongside Slime, Toad, Pikachu, Yoshi and fellow Final Fantasy fave; Chocobo.

If Cloud hadn't been a possibility I wonder if Moogle would have had a shot at representing the most famous JRPG on the planet; he's crossed over with Mario and the gang in the past in Hoops 3 on 3 and the frankly excellent underrated Wii title Mario Sports Mix and was a key character in the formally Nintendo exclusive spinoff Crystal Chronicles and as one of the more famous faces of the franchises, similar to Slime, I can absolutely see an alternative reality where he and Slime got in over Cloud and Hero.

Alas, that's not today's reality, and Moogle faces much competition within his own company.

We've got the iconic gaming legend that is Lara Croft, popular fan favourites such as 2B and Sora, slightly nicher but still popular options such as Bravely Default's Agnes, Crono Trigger's...err...Crono and The World Ends With You's Neku and of course Smash speculation favourite; Geno. Heck, maybe even Octopath is a potential rival here.

And that's before we look at the deluge of popular Final Fantasy leads Moogle might have to compete with including more cast members from FF7, the newly announced FF16 protagonists, the likes of Noctis and Lighting as well as possibly fellow Sports Mix stars Black Mage, White Mage, and Ninja. Heck, even fellow mascots Chocobo, Cactuar and Tonberry could be a potential threat.

All in all there's a LOT Moogle would need to face off with, and so whilst I can absolutely see a Moogle making it as a Mii outfit(a Miigle if you will), I cannot see a reality where Moogle is going to beat these guys to the top of the pile and emerge the victor.

Want: 50%
I like Moogles. Like from a design perspective I think they're wonderful. You may have noticed from my user name I'm a big fan of video game species that occasionally dip into playable characters and I'd absolutely love to beat the crap out of scary Ridley and Ganondorf with an adorable puffball.

However, there's bigger fish to fry for me at current. Lara Croft is my Square character of choice and there's some of Nintendo's own 'species' mascot characters like (Captain) Toad and Bandana Waddle Dee who I have a much bigger want overall for seeing get in first before a third party one gets added...Moogle is probably still my second most wanted Square rep now I've considered it though. He cute.

Prediction: 3.6% for The Prince.

Nominations: Impa (Age of Calamity) X 5
 
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fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,797
Location
Scotland
moogles!

chances: 0% yeah not happening. while they may be a great way to represent recurring aspects of FF thats just not the way they do things in smash. i think everyone would agree that one of the main characters from one of the other games. and unlike chocobos, moogles have never had game of their own. sure there have been a couple games where moogles are major characters they are probably not the most likely picks from those games. shame really they are tones of fun.

want: 80% i do actually love moogles. mog from ff6 was one of my favourite characters. in fact between their many many appearances moogles have a vast array of moveset potential. in theory they could work in a similar vain to PP, mind you there are a lot of characters who could work in a similar vain. so while there are probably plenty of FF characters id prefer i wouldnt be upset if they became playable.

nominate chibi-robo x5
 

CHAMPIONX9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
288
MOOGLE
In this timeline, this universe.

0.008% lol

Nintendo is picking. Sakurai might've since he did Piranha Plant, but not Nintendo.
Unless Sakurai gets down on his knees and begs for Moogle, but Sakurai is too reasonable for that.
The other scenario, is based on "stingy square theory". If Square doesn't want to give another character, but are forced to because of company obligations, they could decide Moogle. If Nintendo is also trapped in a sour negotiation because of some upcoming game, then they could be forced to accept Moogle.
This is a cynical take, and I don't think is the case.

And so, reality sets in and when you think about the maths you have to factor in the number of viable characters within final fantasy, within square, and within all the other companies currently involved with Smash, and within all the other potential viable characters with companies not involved in smash yet, and then even then, all the characters that are inferior to Moogle, but still have a chance of getting in. I'm just gonna recycle my post
and say Moogle is one of the lesser characters. Even Dissidia final fantasy with a big roster had like 40 characters and none were Moogle.
So with 100 final fantasy characters I guess moogle would be 1/100 possible final fantasy characters, then 1/1000 in the square verse....


1/1000 * 4 character slots left * 100 * pick a company out of a hat (2%)
0.008% lol
In english thats a 1 in 12000 chance
I think moogle has better odds than that cuz it's square, but idk how to compute that.
Moogle also kinda unique so that might be good for them too. Moogle needs some affirmative action so that it's not just anime swordsman. Theres like 14 characters that don't star in their own game in Smash Bros Ultimate not counting pokemon and fire emblem (14/77) so affirmative action only happens like 20 percent of the time and even then the characters were inherently popular except for plant and bowser jr.

If this happens, just know that it's a miracle and you are blessed forever for being lucky enough to witness it.

Want
99%
If it came with alts that had the different kinds of moogles that would be fun. Only thing would be the salt, but you can't stay mad at moogle.
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Moogle time, kupo

Chance: 1%
I don't think it's Moogle's time, kupo. The competition is too strong. We're dealing with Square Enix here, with all of its contenders. Get within Final Fantasy, and you still have the protagonists of many classic games that remain completely unrepresented. And that's without getting into the possibility of double dipping into FF7 with someone like Sephiroth. But if they get past all that, say, they want to represent the FF series in general and not a specific game, then there's still competition with fellow mascots Chocobo and Black Mage. I don't think it's impossible but it's very, very unlikely.

Want: 75%
I'd be fine with this! I'd prefer many other Square Enix characters, both from FF and otherwise. But Moogles are just so cute. And they're iconic and have built up quite the the skillset over the years. Mog is one of the best characters in FF6 too, so to have him in some way would be cool (even if I'd rather have Terra).

Noms: Jason and SOPHIA x10
Prince of All Cosmos prediction: 9.82%
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,965
NNID
TCT~Phantom
Moogle
0.001% Chance

Sorry, kupo. Let's just put aside the rest of Square and go with FF as a whole. FF7 has Sephiroth and Tifa, both of which are huge, iconic characters. But even outside of FF7, Tifa, ****ing Tidus, Bartz, Squall, Zidane, Noctus, Lightning, and Cecil all are way more likely. Even if you want something generic, you have Black Mage and Chocobo. But FF is not all of Square. Geno, Neku, 2B, Chrono, and Lara Croft all are big competition, so is a Bravely Default rep. That is just from Square. The competition is huge, and with supposedly less spots, Moogle seems close to impossible.

1%
I would much rather have other Square reps. Neku is one of my most wanted. Chrono is a character I would also like. Even in FF, I would much rather have Sephiroth. However, I think the bigger problem is supposedly, we are running out of spots. The more time goes on, the more characters I do not love will get lower scores. More FF music would be nice though.

Coco as Crash's echo x 10
 

amageish

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,558
Moogle

Chance: 1%. Let's chat mascot characters, shall we, kupo?

Moogle is one of the central mascots of one of the biggest RPG franchises ever. They're cute and they're pretty iconic. There are Moogle slippers. They are, in general, kind of used as the go-to crossover character when sprinkling a bit of FF wonder into other IPs. Dragon Quest? Moogle's a guest. Mana franchise? Moogles are there, guys. Mario Sports games developed by Square? You know there will be a Moogle there. DOTA 2? Moogle wards for you! Yokai Watch and Final Fantasy have an alliance? Gotta have Moogles and fuse Jibanyan and Moogle into the mildly-creepy Mooglenyan...

Okay, look, not that many English words rhyme with "Mooglenyan"... I tried, okay...

Point being: Just like how they act as postage carriers in Final Fantasy, Moogles are sent around the gaming world to deliver joy and wonder.

However... Oh boy is putting them in Smash a weird idea. Final Fantasy just has so many other character options and Square Enix has even more character options. Final Fantasy has FF7 being nice and relevant again, in addition to the literal dozen+ of other FF games with possible characters to draw from. They have a lot of other RPG franchises too with popular requests to pick from - Bravely Default, The World Ends with You, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, and, heck, even Mario RPG. They also own Lara Croft now, who is arguably the most famous female video game amongst all female video game characters, which sounds noteworthy... Heck, if they specifically wanted a mascot character from a franchise already in Smash, Slime is arguably more cutely famous than Moogle? People also just generally don't seem into mascot characters getting in - I mean, there is a reason Vivi in particular is usually more discussed and requested then the generic "Black Mage."

It does make me wonder though... Is there ever a good time for third-party mascot characters? I'm unsure myself. As on one hand, mascots are usually cute and marketable. On the other hand, Sakurai has been really emphasizing interesting movesets with all newcomers nowdays and I imagine Moogle would boil down to... Magical magic is magic. Though, actually, maybe one could come with a gimmicky moveset based on all the odd jobs Moogles have filled in FF games, like note-delivering and shopkeeping and stuff... That actually could make a very cool trick character? I need to think more about this. It just doesn't feel like they'd be a priority anymore, with a few select exceptions where the mascot could directly rep the game mechanics.

That said, if we did get a second Final Fantasy character who is not evil (be it Terra, Tifa, Vivi, or whoever), then I do think Moogle would have a decent chance of appearing in one of their taunts like Slime and Morgana do... So, that's not nothing?

Want: 90%. I mean, even ignoring how any character that could make FF music selection better is going to get at least a 60% from me, Moogle is cute and fun. Good King Moggle Mog the XII is a required Final Smash choice if they get in. Overall a cute addition to the roster.

Noms: Jill Stingray Mii Costume x 10
Predictions: 8%.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Billy Hatcher x220
Sakura Shinguji x205
Concept: Content from currently unreleased game (not Spirit Events) (as of May 17th 2020) x200
Zelda (BotW universe) x200
The Stretchers x190
Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA x190
Alex Mason x175
Amiya (Arknights) x175

200 - 151

Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x171
Hades (Kid Icarus) x160

150 - 101

[Rerate] Frisk x150
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x135
Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins) x135
Concept: A Microsoft rep that isn't Steve or Master Chief x130
Concept: A Bravely Default character x130
Mii Costume: Jill Stingray x129
Red (Angry Birds) x125
D.Va x115

100 - 51

Zero (Mega Man) x95
[Rerate] Maxwell x95
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x93
Concept: Second F-Zero rep x89
Boss: Ender Dragon x83
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Riptor x80
Fulgore x79
Stage: Bowser's Castle x76
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
[Rerate] Concept: Boss Rush x70
Concept: Rocket League rep x70
Impa (Age of Calamity) x70
Echo: Coco (Crash) x70
Giygas x65
Adol Christin x65
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x60
[Rerate] Chibi-Robo x60
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x55
Concept: Fortnite character x55
Gooigi x55
Vi (Bug Fables) x55
Boss: Rayquaza x55
Echo (Olimar) x51

50 - 25

Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x50
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x50
Magolor x50
John Marston x50
Jin Sakai x50
[Rerate] Monokuma x50
Ghirahim x50
Hajime Hinata x50
Miriam x50
[Rerate] Concept: New Zelda character x30
Don-chan x25

Under 25

Ryza (Atelier) x20
[Rerate] The Knight x20
Tetra x15
Yarn Yoshi x15
Tetris x10
Cynthia (Pokémon) x5
Concept: Rocket League content x5
[Rerate] Thrall x5
Stage: Tetris x5
[Rerate] Agumon x5
[Rerate] Arle Nadja x5

Amiya rejoins the top seven, tied with Alex Mason for seventh place.

Hades towers over 150 noms.

Adol Christin fights through the 50 nom barrier.

Don-chan drums up 25 noms.

Today's new challengers are both rerates: we have Agumon and Arle Nadja, both starting out at 5 noms.

YoshiandToad YoshiandToad Mametchi doesn't have a support thread, so unfortunately you can't nominate him. Would you like to change your nominations to someone else?
 

Lyncario

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
926
Location
Hell
Moogle
Chances: 0.00005%
I don't really feel too inspired, but I might as well do it now. So, the Moogles are the shopkeepers and secondary mascots in Final Fantasy, and neither is really good for them. Being mascot is not inherently bad for becoming playable in Smashes, but being secondary mascots is not a good thing for that, I would say, in fact it's very arguably if being the mascot is good for characters from genres other than monster collecotr, and even then it's kinda of a 50/50 split isnce Pokemon got Pikachu as it's first rep, while MegaTen got Joker instead of Jack Frost. Also FF has just so much copyright everywhere for everything, as we already know from experience with Cloud and the FFVII content we currently have in the game, or rather that we don't have since while Cloud, his Advent Children alt, his 2 fighter spirits, Midgar, the summons, and the 2 songs are nice to have, it's nothing for how much there is in FFVII, let alone FF as a whole. I also feel that if Nintendo really wanted to go trough that overcomplicated mess of copyright again, then I think that they would go for a "bigger" character like Sephiroth who would be slightly easier to get since they already wen trough the FFVII copyright mess, or one who is more requested like Terra, or even a more recent one like Noctis or even the protag of Fantasy May Cry XVI. So yeah, I just don't see Moogle hapening in Smash at all, even less in this fighter pass. And I only talked about FF, not other SE properties like DQ, Tomb Raider, Bravely Default, Nier, TWEWY, Geno, arguably KH, or Gex. There really is a big competition for who will be SE's next character in Smash, if there will even be one for the second fighter pass, and it's already unfair to SE's biggest characters, so I really don't think that Moggle would be the one that could even hope to be "the one".
Want: 60%
Moogles are cute, and they are also a relatively important part of FF and also KH, two series that I like quite a lot. While they aren't my favored character from either series, or to represent one of them, and that I'm also not the biggest fan of mascots getting in over protags for 3rd party series, Moggle getting in Smash wouldn't be a thing that I'm that against, in fact I think that I would even apreciate it a bit if they got a lot of content from FF as a whole, even if that would be extremly unrealistic. But hey, I would still probably enjoy it.

Nominations:
Hades x10

Predictions:
Prince of all cosmos: 7.7%
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,123
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
YoshiandToad YoshiandToad Mametchi doesn't have a support thread, so unfortunately you can't nominate him. Would you like to change your nominations to someone else?
Guh buh? I'm genuinely shocked he doesn't... I'd make it myself but I can't pretend I'm an expert on Tamogotchi.

Can I throw today's nominations and yesterday's to Age of Calamity Impa? I'd say Agumon, to keep with the virtual pet but I feel like he was done not so long ago.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,412
Moogle

Chance: 0%
There's not much else I can say that hasn't already been said. Literally the only thing Moogle has going for it is its mascot status. However, given Hero and Slime, I'm pretty sure Sakurai likes to prioritise the protagonist whenever possible. Given that only FFVII's protagonist is in the game in any form, that alone is MASSIVE competition. Add in the fact this is Square Enix we're talking about, and you can see the problems here. To put it bluntly, Moogle isn't happening.

Abstain on want. I don't have an opinion on Moogle.

Nominations: Billy Hatcher x(how many noms do I get for abstaining on want?)
 
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DanganZilla5

Smash Champion
Writing Team
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
2,436
A guest character in Mario Sports Mix

Chance: 0.10%

I'll keep this short since everyone keeps repeating the same thing. Moogle is iconic and a mainstay of the FF series, but that's it for the positives. The fact that Hero got in over Slime is very noteworthy and indicates that Nintendo would be more interested in the playable human characters rather than the series mascots. Even if we assume that there is going to be another FF character, there is plenty of characters to choose from and even if they wanted a mascot, there is also Chocobo and Cactur. Yeah, I can't see this happening.

Want: 5%

Yeah, I can't say I would be excited over this. There are other FF characters like ****ing Tidus, Terra, Sephiroth, and Noctis that I would be more hyped for. Even if I had to choose a mascot, Chocobo would appeal to me more.

Prediction: Prince - 12% ( DrifloonEmpire DrifloonEmpire If you weren't already going to, I would recommend posting that one moveset video that you showed me on Discord. It sold me and I'm sure it sold many other people on this character so it would be a good way to sell him in this thread)

Noms: Arthur x5
 

Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
Moogle

Chance 0 - Man, I really don't see a path here. Theres a whole host of FF characters who I think are closer to getting in the game. Mainly the main cast from 7 and 15(I think that was the one in the recent State of Play at least). Feels like the perfect AT choice if Final Fantasy got any. There's also the fact that Final Fantasy didn't get jack **** with Cloud and that might steer Nintendo away from wanting to have to find a way to fill up an entire challenger pack with possibly very little, but that isnt even close to the top problem here. Also, there's the endless competition that SE characters already face that causes issues as well.

Want 50 - Eh, wouldn't really care either way. I like Moogle well enough. There's no real reason I can think of to say no here but there's not a lot of reasons to say yes for me either. Baseline acceptable choice I suppose.

Predictions
PoaC - 3.41%

Noms:
Stretchers x10
 

BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,932
Location
winnipeg
Moogle

Chance: 5%. If we do get a second Final Fantasy Rep, it would be Tifa or Sephiroth, for obviousness reasons. While it appears that Square ENix is being more supportive of Smash, I can’t see Moogle get in this fighter’s pass.

Want: 50%. With that said, more Final Fantasy representation is good regardless, and I think Moggle would be a fun fighter to play as. Besides that, I think Moogle would be a fun choice, and while I prefer it if Tifa or Sephiroth got in first, I don’t think Moogle is a downer of a choice.

Prediction: Prince of all Cosmos (10%)

Noms: 5 for Concept: Second F-Zero Rep
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Last edited:
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