• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Lionfranky

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
1,024
Abstain on Elma

Lara Croft

Chance: 65%

I'm giving her higher chance than Chief because Square Enix is a Japanese company, so negotiation would be easier. Still, Sakurai himself said working with Microsoft was easier. Back to the point, I think Lara is like Terry. Legacy character that is slept on speculation, yet makes so much sense. I used to think her appearance in Brawhalla hurt her chance, but others convinced me otherwise. I now firmly believe that SE is pushing Tomb Raider hard. I can see their ambition and Sakurai's love for icon and gaming history matching. Sakurai did say that he wanted to make Smash No.1 character game in the world. Lara would cement that goal even further.

Want: 100%

It's almost criminal that she's slept on so much. There is almost no iconic video game characters list without her. That alone warrants her inclusion. I haven't played old Tomb Raider games, but I started from Tomb Raider Legend and played all the main games. I prefer her classic outfit, and I'm sure Sakurai would also go with classic version (ft. Pacman) I am not entirely sure her own unique gimmick, but I believe she has enough rich history to make moveset. I want her in to see Smash turning into true gaming hall of fame.

Nom: Neptune from Neptunia x 5
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,421
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
Elma
Chance: 15%, though this may be a case of my habitual overrate. Rex is currently the co-face of Xenoblade alongside Shulk, being part of MonoSoft's Twitter banner and being promoted in a magazine alongside XC:DE. Logically, this would lead to Rex being promoted, leaving Elma in the dust. A remake could help her out a bit, but the point still stands that Rex has the high ground, and will continue to do so for a good while now.
Want: 45%. I'm pretty neutral on Elma. That being said, XCX seems pretty interesting. It's got a great soundtrack, and the idea of a sci-fi sandbox game with giant robots does seem pretty cool. Still, I don't know enough to really say.
Lara Croft
Chance: 60%. Poor Lara's a perpetual underrate. She's pretty much the female video game protagonist of the West and an iconic character, not to mention the fact that Tomb Raider is Square Enix's third-highest grossing game, being less than ten million behind Dragon Quest. Sure, she's a Western character, but she's got a ton of pull and a Japanese owner to back her up. Plus, she's had a couple cameos as of late. If we're going on about Smash being for iconic characters, Croft is one character who should not be slept on.
Want: 40%. Again, pretty neutral. I understand Tomb Raider is an iconic franchise and I could see why Lara could get in, but I won't be actively advocating for her. Still, I'd imagine she'd be pretty dun with her various adventuring gear.
Predictions
Agumon: 17.82%
Jibanyan: 9.12%
Nomination: Klonoa x5
 

BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,892
Location
winnipeg
Elma

Chance: 20%. Her chance is higher since Min-Min joined Smash, so would help. But Rex is the only thing stopping Elma from getting any higher, but otherwise her chance is decent.

Want: 90%. I honestly prefer it if she got in over Rex any day. She would be a fun character and I can see her and Shulk certain off in a fight. Overall, Elma would be a great addition to Smash.

Lara

Chance: 15%. She is quite well know and her popularity helps her out in this part. Square Enix being less controlling also helps, but who knows what will happen.

Want: 75%. She would be fun to play as, and I can see her face off against Samus, Snake, Bayonetta and Joker, amoung others in a free for all. Overall, Lara would be a great choice of a Smash Bros Rep.

Prediction: Jibanyan and Agumon (15%)

Noms: 5 for Stage: Bowser’s Castle
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Rule 63 Uncharted

Chance: 30%
Lara Croft is one of the most iconic characters of all time, famous, successful and influential, popular in Japan despite being a Western creation. Hell, she even gets to bypass the normal disadvantage of Western characters by being owned by a Japanese company. Also, all the people saying that she isn't popular anymore? Her last game sold 4 million copies in 3 months, that's nothing to sneeze at. Her series is Square Enix's third most successful, behind the two that are in Smash already, so if the pattern holds, it's looking good for her. Really, the only things holding her back is the competition within SE and Sakurai's knack for Japanese games.

Want: 100%
Lara Croft should be in Smash. Seriously, she's one of the big ones, the dream matchups. Let's get dual pistol lady and see her side-by-side with Samus, that'd be quite a sight to behold.

Skell kid

Chance: 5%
When it's you vs Rex, and Rex is one of the most likely upcoming characters, you're in a bad spot. I see no reason to put her in Smash over her more popular and successful little brother. I don't see a Xenoblade X2 coming anytime soon, especially not before the Pass ends, and neither do I see a port of X when we just got the original's remake this year. I don't know if Elma will be back, but her timing if she does really let her down. Add to that Rex being more demanded and even mentioned by Sakurai as a "shoulda been in" and yeah, I really don't see it.

Want: 25%
I want Rex, so I wouldn't exactly adore this. Even without him, I found Elma an incredibly dull character, to the point where I'd even prefer Cross over her. But she has her fans and would probably have a cool moveset, so even if she's not for me I'd be happy for them.

Noms: ****ing Tidus x5
Jibanyan prediction: 11.09%
Agumon prediction: 5.57%

no thank you. ive never played any of her games and i never will. i have no respect for the character, the people who made her in the first place. id go in to why but im not sure on the rules about disusing the area id be going in to. she was made by people who had similar thinking to the people who made a certain creepy member of the roster. thats not the only reason why i dont like her but we dont have time for everything.
Now I'm really wondering what your deal is with Lara...
 
Last edited:

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Concept: A non-white/Asian human character x275
Concept: A non-videogame character gets a Mii Costume x275
Tidus x245
Nate Adams x215
[Rerate] Ezio x215
Shuichi Saihara x196
Moogle x175

150 - 101

[Rerate] Prince of All Cosmos x150
Alex Mason x145
Concept: Content from currently unreleased game (not Spirit Events) (as of May 17th 2020) x145
[Rerate] Frisk x140
[Rerate] Monster Hunter x130
Echo: Xion (Sora) x125
Sakura Shinguji x125
Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x121
The Stretchers x120
Concept: Shin Megami Tensei rep x120
D.Va x115
Red (Angry Birds) x115
Zelda (BotW sequel) x110
Billy Hatcher x110
Klonoa x110
Concept: Deltarune content x101

100 - 51

Proto Man x100
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Riptor x80
Fulgore x79
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors) x75
Amiya (Arknights) x75
Boss: Ender Dragon x73
Hades (Kid Icarus) x70
Echo: Dark Bowser (Bowser) x67
The Terrarian x65
Concept: Rocket League rep x65
Concept: Second F-Zero rep x64
[Rerate] Concept: Boss Rush x60
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x60
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x55
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x55
Mii Costume: Jill Stingray x55
Austin the Butler (Gardenscapes) x55

50 - 25

Giygas x50
Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x50
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x50
Gooigi x50
Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA x50
Dr. Goomba Tower x50
Magolor x50
John Marston x50
Jin Sakai x50
Concept: Fortnite character x50
[Rerate] Monokuma x50
Stage: Bowser's Castle x40
Echo: Lord Fredrik (King K. Rool) x39
The Bard (Wandersong) x35
Ghirahim x35
Boss: Rayquaza x34
Concept: Returning stages x31
Concept: Fighter Pass Volume 2 is half Nintendo and half third party x30
Urbosa x30
Yoshimitsu x30
Concept: Assist Trophies added in updates x27
Echo (Olimar) x26
Rival Pokémon Trainer x25
Concept: Dark Souls rep x25
[Rerate] Maxwell x25

Under 25

Black Shadow x20
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x20
Lora and Jin x20
Concept: Fighter Pass 2 gets delayed x20
Vi (Bug Fables) x20
Concept: A Microsoft rep that isn't Steve or Master Chief x20
Chell x18
Zeraora x15
Wolf Link x15
Concept: FP2 character comes with an Echo Fighter x15
Cynthia x15
Taranza x11
Gran/Djeeta x10
Otto Matic x10
The Avatar (Ultima) x10
Concept: Bravely Default rep x10
Medusa (Kid Icarus) x10
Concept: Rhythm Heaven rep x10
Tetra x10
Demi-fiend x10
Mii Costume: Jacket x7
Concept: Darkstalkers rep x6
Sparky (Clash Royale) x5
Concept: Overwatch character x5
Asha (Wonder Boy) x5
Mii Costume: Hat Kid x5
Concept: Portal 2 rep x5
Breath of the Wild 2 Ganondorf x5
Tick (Brawl Stars) x5
King Graham x5
Cooking Mama x5
Jill (Drill Dozer) x5
Asuka (Senran Kagura) x5
Furret x5
Deku Scrub x5
Mii Costume: Edward Falcon x5
Concept: A LABO character x5
Concept: Bonus character x5
Concept: No AT promotions x5
[Rerate] Morrigan Aensland x5
[Rerate] Cadence x5
Octoling x5
Kazuya Mishima x5
Excitebiker x5
Zero (Mega Man) x5
Gil (Babylonian Castle Saga/The Tower of Druaga) x5
Young Wizard (Wizard101) x5
Concept: Tetris 99 stage x5
Concept: Generic Zora x3
Three Mage Sisters x2
Concept: A Pokémon Trainer who fights x2
Concept: A fighter who uses all kicks x2
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x2
Concept: Generic Goron x2
Kass x1

Concept: A non-videogame character gets a Mii Costume ties with Concept: A non-white/Asian human character for the top spot. Meanwhile, Ezio and Nate Adams duel it out in fourth place. Our first shakeup in the top seven in a while, and with one week left to go no less!

Concept: Deltarune content inches past 100 noms.

Mii Costume: Alex Kidd jumps past the 50 nom mark.

John Marston, Jin Sakai, Monokuma and Concept: Fortnite character make it to 50 noms and are spared from the purge.

We have a new concept today: Tetris 99 stage, with 5 noms.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,309
Elma

Chance: 0%
I'm sorry, but this ain't happening. Her best chance was in FP1, but now that Rex is back on the table, she has nothing going for her. I know, X doesn't have much content, but keep in mind there are games here that aren't even represented AT ALL.
Want: 75%
I'm one of those weird people who wants both Rex and Elma. Obviously, I'd prefer Rex by virtue of having played XC2, but Elma seems to be a fine enough character to have. Plus, giant robots are cool.

Abstain on Lara. I don't have an opinion on her.

Nominations: Nate Adams x5 (in honor of us rating Jibanyan tomorrow, who I honestly think is a little slept on).
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,698
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Lara Croft
Chance: 45%. I think they’d choose a Japanese Square rep over her if they double dip. I also dunno if Tomb Raider is popular in Japan.
want: 60%. No strong feelings one way or the other. I’d prefer Neku or 2B myself.

Elma
Chance: 50%. Granted it could go up when an X port is announced, and there’s no X music in base. But they can also just skip over X altogether so...
Want: 100% did you even have to ask? I’ve wanted her for TWO years. Just any kind of Xenoblade rep will do but I prefer her most.

nominate: Octoling (Octo Expansion) x5
 
Last edited:

Calamitas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,689
Location
Germany
Lara Croft
Chance: 45%. I think they’d choose a Japanese Square rep over her if they double dip
want: 60%. No strong feelings one way or the other

Elma
Chance: 50%. Too many variables to explain atm
Want: 100% did you even have to ask? Lmao

nominate: Octoling (Octo Expansion) x5
You're gonna need two sentences per character for it to be counted when scores are tallied.
 

jamesster445

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
1,140
Lara Croft
Chance: 50%
Want: 90%

Probably the single.most iconic female gaming protagonist, next to Samus herself. I think by that metric alone she deserves some spot on the roster. At the very least I think shes the single best inclusion that Square could reasonably provide at this point.

Elma
Chance: 40%
Want: 100%

The lack of X content in Smash has me hopeful. But that content (along with Torna, DE, and extra 2 content) can come alongside Rex or whoever the next Xenoblade character is. I would prefer Elma if only because I just like her as a character more. But more importantly, I just want more sci fi aesthetics in Smash.

Nominations: Lora and Jin x5
 

Blankiturayman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
459
Lara Croft
Chance: 30%
It really goes without saying that Lara's part of the "iconic videogame characters" group. This in itself could make them pick her, but I don't really see why beyond that. It could add to the "Hall of Fame" approach some see Smash as having, but well... I think that's all she's got going for her. Of course, this is nothing to scoff at, if she were to be added it'd make sense. I just think of stuff like, Resident Evil, which was in a similar category, iconic, renown, big hitter franchise. And yet, only a spirit event. My guess there is it was due the theming, lack of strong connection or simply just being passed over. Either way, her status is not to be understated, and it's why she gets this chance to begin with-- I'm just not counting on it as much due to the DLC selection being quite surprising sometimes.
Want: 20%
Don't have much attachment to this series. I'd be entirely fine with it due to her being one of these classic characters, that if they were to be added it'd make perfect sense.

Elma, sliding slinger
Chance: 10%
Sometimes it really feels like her better chances were during Smash 4, but hey, who really knows. If they wanted to go chronologically, or if for example Nintendo was open about who to add, but wanted a "Xenoblade character", there could be some chances for her to be picked over the differences in moveset she'd get from Rex. But well... I think that's about it for her. She's got some stiff competition from Rex alone, who already had an OK by Sakurai himself. Of course, Nintendo is making the selection now, but it also stands to reason they could want to add a character from the newest game instead. Or even a XC1 character to go with the remaster (though personally not too sure on this last one). Even if there was a remaster/port coming, I wouldn't be too sure, and the chances of that (as much as I'd like it) seem to be unlikely at this point in time given XC1's remaster came out not too long ago. Maybe at some point down the line, but I don't think it'd be before this DLC cycle is over.
Want: 60%
I did play XCX a while ago, it was a fun game, I liked Elma there too and I think she'd have a pretty cool moveset, could swap weapons around, being both ranged and melee-based. My personal "Xeno" pick is KOS-MOS as I've mentioned in this same thread, but I'd be cool with anyone from it by this point.

Nominations: Proto Man x5

Predictions:
Agumon: 15%
Jibanyan: 7%
 

DanganZilla5

Smash Champion
Writing Team
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
2,400
female Nathan Drake

Chance: 35%

Some of you are not giving Lara Croft enough credit. She is iconic, relevant, popular, Tomb Raider is the third best selling Square Enix series, and while she is a western character, she is still recognizable in Japan. A big reason why western characters are often seen as less likely is because of the language barrier. But Lara Croft has the benefit of being owned by a Japanese company so the fact that she is a western character isn't a big deal. Her only big obstacle is competition within Square Enix which is still packed, but I'd argue she is near the top. She feels missing from the roster and aside from maybe Chun Li she is the most iconic female character not playable. She is popular with the casual crowd and is requested, though maybe not to the extent of some other Square characters.

Want: 70%

I enjoy the Tomb Raider games and Lara Croft has moveset potential with survival tools like rope and various weapons and guns. I imagine the stage would take place on a mountain where boulders are falling down and the Smash characters are being attacked by mercenaries. Now if they have a T-Rex as a stage hazard, that would be the cherry on top. Tomb Raider is a huge series and more than deserves a challenger pack.

_________________

Not Rex

Chance: 5%

If we are going to get a Xenoblade character, it's going to be Rex. Hands down. Did Sakurai give a special mention to Elma and give her a Mii costume? Nope, and the fact that Rex has a Mii costume doesn't hurt his chances since it was an incentive/bonus to get the Fighters Pass. You don't pay for it separately. Is it possible that Elma could get chosen? sure. I just found out that they did a couple teasers indicating that Elma could return in a future game. But unless if she gets a new game somewhat soon, I can't see her be included over Rex. All the signs are pointing toward him instead.

Want: 5%

I'm not that interested in this character. Plus I would be a bit annoyed if Rex got jipped again. I would much rather see him make it in.

Predictions:
Agumon - 20%
Jibanyan - 8%

Noms: Ezio x5
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
9,686
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
Elma

Chance: 35%


Xenoblade X still has a lack of content and she's one of the leading picks for the series. I could see things going either way in terms of her chances (of course she does have competition in terms of Rex).

Want: 100%


I think she'd be a great pick in terms of 1st Party wants as another much needed Xenoblade rep. She'd also have an interesting moveset in terms of her abilities.

Lara Croft

Chance: 50%


Tomb Raider is one of Square's best selling franchises not in Smash yet, and there's really nothing that would actively impede her from joining. I'd say she has a decent chance because of how legendarily iconic she is as a character.

Want: 100%

She's pretty much one of the most iconic video game characters that could be added, and would bring a boatload of rich content with her in a Fighter's Pass. I'd love to see her join to have her and Samus crossover at last.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,654
Location
Scotland
Because of the big triangle boobs? Kinda harsh if so, there's a lot more to her character than that, and I don't see how she's any different from the overwhelming majority of female characters in videogames in that regard.
well it’s more to do with the clip I’ve seen of one of the designers talking about how much he enjoyed make her boobs pointy while creepily licking his lips. A thing like that tends to sour your view of character
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
well it’s more to do with the clip I’ve seen of one of the designers talking about how much he enjoyed make her boobs pointy while creepily licking his lips. A thing like that tends to sour your view of character
I think I know what clip you're referring to, and it's important to look at it in context. Keep in mind that during the 90s, the industry was undergoing quite the major shift. The kids that grew up playing on NES were becoming teenagers, while new players like Sega and Sony were entering the fray looking for a way to differentiate themselves from the clean, family-friendly image of Nintendo; that led to games trying to be, or at least pass themselves off as edgy and mature. Plus, with Lara's status as a rare female videogame character, and with an audience mostly comprised of males, they just didn't know how to market her. All these factors combined led to the decision to push Lara as a sex symbol and play up her attractiveness. This was exacerbated because of the fifth-generation of console's emphasis on better and more detailed graphical capabilities - "check out how hot we can make chicks look" is one way to go about it. I take that interview as part of that marketing angle; it plays into very, uh, timely gags and stereotypes, the developer's a creepy geek, as are all nerds, but Lara's hot so it's still cool if you leer at her. But the games themselves hardly objectify Lara, if at all. Even her original model's... "assets" were a mistake, that were kept in because it was so cartoonish it was funny.

What I'm saying is, judge the games by themselves. Especially given how rare female protagonists were and still are, it'd be a shame if we wrote them off not by their own merits or failings but because of the growing pains that progress begets.
 

Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
Nothing has changed for Elma I don't feel like, so here's my last rating for her again

Elma
Chance 1 - Have a hard time seeing this one happening anymore. The extreme lack of XBX content could have been considered suspicious at first with DLC pack 1. Now we're in Fighters Pass 2 though, and any ideas that this was planned seem to be out the window because more DLC wasn't planned at first. So it's more likely that they just decided to not put the content in instead of holding it back for DLC. There's also Sakurais love of the series to consider, but he wanted Rex, not Elma. Even though we're told Nintendo gives him the names and then he decides if it's possible to make them fighters or not I really doubt he has no input or the characters. It seems like Elma missed her time and has been passed over. Leaving the door open because I remember rumors about another XBX game the last time we did Elma but IDK what that was all about.

Want 50 - Same as above. XB is close to needing more character and I dont really have a preference as to who gets in. Don't know a lot about the character but she has some solid support too and some of the stuff I've seen for moveset makes it seem like she wouldnt be boring I guess.
While things have changed for Lara, so here I go

Lara Croft

Chance 20 - Last time I rated her I gave her a 45. That was because we had 0 clue who anyone in the pass would be back in February. So what dropped her so far? Mainly it's because I don't feel like we're getting huge names in this pass. Starting with Min Min makes me feel like we're going with more hype to play over hype to have characters. Lara really leans more toward hype to have. Not that she couldn't be fun to play but I don't see a ton of new mechanics or a super unique moveset happening for her. So why haven't I abandoned all hope? Because first, she's a complete gaming icon that's not owned by Sony. That alone makes me feel like she's always got at least something of a chance. There's also the fact that so far it seems like we're just going down the list of popular series from SE with FF and DQ. Tomb Raider is pretty logically next and we've also gotten a SE rep in every section of DLC we've had so far. Both of those feel good but there's also the knock against her that she originally was developed in the US and Smash hasnt been great to western characters so far. Really just depends on how Sakurai and Nintendo see her.

Want 100 - No doubt this would be awesome. Lara is one of the biggest names in gaming and her being Smash would be super big. Having her would also probably be the closest I'll ever get to Nathan Drake in Smash and I have no problem maining Lara because of that either.

Predictions
Agumon - 14%
Jibby - 8.12%

Noms
Non Steve/Chief Microsoft rep x5
 

Aetheri

W/E happens don't panic...
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
8,847
Location
ZDR
Switch FC
SW-3397-5428-2304
Gals with Guns


Elma
Chance: 7%

I just want to start off by saying I thoroughly believe Elma would've absolutely been a newcomer in the base game if not for "Everyone is Here!" There was a lot going in her favour with that as the one big exceptions since Sakurai prioritized bringing back all veterans which limited the amount of newcomers he could add during pre-release. (I'm not too upset by this considering it meant Cloud returned so...I guess I'll take that trade) I also believe that she may have been considered when Corrin was chosen for Smash 4's DLC as well.

Now before inevitably talking about Rex. Let's talk about Cross/Rook first since there are some who believe that they could be chosen over Elma. And while Cross/Rook is technically the player character, they do play a secondary role in the game's story to Elma. Not to mention when it comes to Xenoblade Chronicles X specifically Monolith seems to favour using Elma to represent the game in cameos, marketing, etc. So with that in mind if X gets a character it will more than likely be Elma.

Now with regards to Rex, personally I'm not confident in Rex's chances, and while I'm not necessarily saying he won't be added because of his Mii Costume specifically, but moreso because 'Xenoblade Chronicles 2' already got a pretty significant showcase with a decent amount of added content (for a game without a character and stage) within the post release period. And with an apology from Sakurai for not adding him in the game which from precedence actually tells me he won't be added in the this game at all. Sakurai's spoken about adding as many worlds as possible which focusing on another game such as X would fullfill that goal. Technically, yes, this would be considered a different development period for this game, but (barring another Mii costume gets added later for another character from 2) I don't think we'll get another focus on XC2 in this fighter's pass at all. Of course this could be moot if the producers do urge Sakurai to add Rex in the second pass similarly for Min Min. But of course the devs could also just as easily push for Elma as well if they wanted. One important note we have to keep in mind for what Sakurai is looking for in this Pass is how each fighter is bringing something new to Smash with regards to how they play (with Min Min being the currently only example atm) BUT this means nothing regarding if he'd choose Rex or Elma since this can apply to both of them really; Rex can utilize his Blade Pyra/Mythra/etc, and Elma has the weapon switching as well as her Overdrive. But both do have something unique to bring to the table.

Regarding a Switch port for X or an X2 sequel. I don't particularly think it would make much of a difference. Theoretically it coouuld influence Sakurai's decision if he approaches Monolith at the right moment and they are working on a port/sequel at the time, but it's highly unlikely and even if they are in the works, as of now Pokemon Trainer and ZSS are really the only characters who were added due to being part of a recently released remake, despite lots of potential fighters that could've been added.

A quick tl;dr, Sakurai's statements on 'new worlds' as well as focusing on unique playstyles could work out in Elma's favour. X doesn't have much content in the game so pretty much anything added be it a stage, music, and additional spirits would all be new content to Smash. I'm particularly not confident on Sakurai revisiting XC2 moving forward unless pressured by the devs, and if he decides to add a character from X Elma is more than likely going to be the one he goes with. That said she's currently part of a game that is last Gen and not the most recent entry in it's respective franchise which does indeed drop her chances quite a bit (I remember I once rated her nearly 90%, which was before 'Everyone is Here!' which is likely the wall that ultimately blocked her chances from getting in the game)

Want: 100%
Second most wanted newcomer overall, with Xenoblade Chronicles X easily being my favourite Xenoblade game and one of my favourite games of all time. Logged in pretty close to 300 hours exploring Mira, which totally needs a stage in Smash in some form (like I'll take anything but NLA tbh, Primordia, Noctilum, Sylvalum, etc) I thoroughly enjoyed her as a character in that game, her class Full Metal Jaguar is one of the most fun in the game. And for pete's sake we need some of that music in Smash! Sawano did an excellent job composing this game (even if some tracks are divisive amoung fans)

----

Lara Croft
Chance: 30%

Personally I feel people do sleep on Lara's chances as she's an industry icon as her status has extended to even getting multiple feature films. Being owned by a company who has already contributed to Smash's roster is highly beneficial for her cmpared to most other western icons. While yes, Square has a whole slew potential fighters from various franchises, but I feel its important to note that fighters are typically chosen for their own merits rather than how they compare to other characters, especially if those characters are from different IPs. If for example 2B or Geno gets chosen I don't think it would really affect Lara's chances directly one way or the other. Tomb Raider is a HUGE franchise lest we forget. And Lara Croft (while true not at her peak) is still a household name and one that has that mountain of a legacy to back her up.

Want: 95%
She's definitely up there. This is pretty much the only possible chance we'll get to see a legendary matchup between Lara Croft and Samus Aran in an official crossover especially one as big as Smash Ultimate. The prospect as is, is enough for me to want her in Smash. I trust Sakurai can come up with something neat for the archeologist to stand out in Smash's roster. Say what you will about her demand or popularity amoung Smash fans, but I think people underestimate how much of an impact her reveal would be, should she happen.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,421
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
A quick tl;dr, Sakurai's statements on 'new worlds' as well as focusing on unique playstyles could work out in Elma's favour.
I swear if I see someone trying to use "unique playstyles" as an actual point for or against someone's likelihood one more time I am going to E. Honda headdive through my screen. Everyone can be unique if they tried, and even then the characters we got so far all have someone who's supposedly more unique than they would be. To wit:
:ultjoker:: We have actual demons of varying shapes and sizes, the most notable of which has ice powers and a distinctive sillouhette, plus various humans who can command said demons, and yet we settle for some shmuck with nothing but a knife, a gun, and a generic super mode? Really?
:ulthero:: The Slimes are brimming with potential, with a unique design and various different abilities throughout their many different subspecies. They could be among the most distinctive fighters in the game. Obviously, we're going with yet another swordfighter who just cobbles together what other people can do, except they can't do it on command. And don't even get me started on everything else Squeenix has to offer...
:ultbanjokazooie:: They're just a bird and a bear who can't do anything beyond average bird and bear stuff. Microsoft has shapeshifting toads, skeleton pirates, cup people with literal finger guns, and the FPS space marine in a game lacking in people who solely use firearms. Why can't we have one of them?
:ult_terry:: Some dude in streetwear. We've got a girl with ice powers, a teen with fire, a heel wrestler in a dinosaur costume, a powerful samurai... Why's this guy so special?
:ultbyleth:: This is a game with Manaketes, flying units, powerful dark mages, and the Grim Reaper on a horse. We're really just sticking with a bunch of melee weapons cobbled together?
:ultminmin: Punchy punchy, kicky kicky, yawn. We've got massive mummies, a girl wit a mech suit, and a stretchy blob of DNA. But no, of course we settle with yet another human.
The way most people define alleged "fun" and "uniqueness" is something Sakurai and Nintendo don't give a flying **** about, because when people try to define uniqueness it's almost entirely biased, and just shows personal opinion more than anything. If Sakurai and/or Nintendo choose a character, Sakurai will see to it that they'll be fun. It's not about being the most unique thing in all the cosmos, it's just about being fun. Nothing more, nothing less. Alleged "uniqueness" has nothing to do with it.
(Note that I don't have anything against the current DLC fighters, it's just an example being used)
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,654
Location
Scotland
I think I know what clip you're referring to, and it's important to look at it in context. Keep in mind that during the 90s, the industry was undergoing quite the major shift. The kids that grew up playing on NES were becoming teenagers, while new players like Sega and Sony were entering the fray looking for a way to differentiate themselves from the clean, family-friendly image of Nintendo; that led to games trying to be, or at least pass themselves off as edgy and mature. Plus, with Lara's status as a rare female videogame character, and with an audience mostly comprised of males, they just didn't know how to market her. All these factors combined led to the decision to push Lara as a sex symbol and play up her attractiveness. This was exacerbated because of the fifth-generation of console's emphasis on better and more detailed graphical capabilities - "check out how hot we can make chicks look" is one way to go about it. I take that interview as part of that marketing angle; it plays into very, uh, timely gags and stereotypes, the developer's a creepy geek, as are all nerds, but Lara's hot so it's still cool if you leer at her. But the games themselves hardly objectify Lara, if at all. Even her original model's... "assets" were a mistake, that were kept in because it was so cartoonish it was funny.

What I'm saying is, judge the games by themselves. Especially given how rare female protagonists were and still are, it'd be a shame if we wrote them off not by their own merits or failings but because of the growing pains that progress begets.
i do judge her on other things, and still dont like her. i still gave her what i felt was a fair rating.

also im surprised its taken this long for anyone to say this sort of thing to me, ive been dumping on the demon hag for pretty much the same thing ever since she got into smash
 
Last edited:

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
33,593
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
i do judge her on other things, and still dont like her. i still gave her what i felt was a fair rating.

also im surprised its taken this long for anyone to say this sort of thing to me, ive been dumping on the demon hag for pretty much the same thing for years
Calling the most iconic female video game protagonist a "demon hag" totally isn't grossly misogynistic. Nope. Not at all.

Bleh.

Anyway, Lara time.

Chance: 40%
I absolutely think we're getting a Square Enix character. I think Geno is the most likely, but Lara isn't too far behind, and just ahead of 2B imo. The only thing potentially holding her back is her lack of notoriety in Japan, but that's just in comparison to Japanese franchises. For Western franchises, Tomb Raider actually does comparably well enough there.

Lara is a gaming icon and the single most iconic female video game protagonist, making the likes of Samus look like absolute no names. I'd argue she's one of the top ten most iconic game characters of all time. Maybe even top six or seven. She's huge, and she'd be a huge draw. Despite being created in the west, she's owned by Square-Enix, which may alleviate some potential development woes.

Want: 100%
Hell yeah. Lara would be awesome. Dual pistols, acrobatics, a bow with different arrow types, a climbing axe...she has a lot to work with. She's absolutely my favorite potential Square-Enix pick, and one of my most wanted characters in general.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,965
NNID
TCT~Phantom
Abstain!! Nothing's changed since I last rated them. I'm sick of this schedule.

Nominate content from currently unreleased game x5
I was pretty firm in my warning that this type of stuff would be considered off topic and lose noms from that point forward. I’m disappointed you chose not to head it.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,654
Location
Scotland
Calling the most iconic female video game protagonist a "demon hag" totally isn't grossly misogynistic. Nope. Not at all.
shes in no way the most iconic. samus and lara are both waaaaaaaaaaay more iconic. and of course peach who has her own game so she counts and zelda had shared co protag tole many times.

also she's a witch which is synonymous with hag and shes uses the power of demons so if anything its more like calling link sword boy. also shes a deeply sexulized character designed by men isnt that in itself deeply misogynistic?
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,305
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
shes in no way the most iconic. samus and lara are both waaaaaaaaaaay more iconic. and of course peach who has her own game so she counts and zelda had shared co protag tole many times.

also she's a witch which is synonymous with hag and shes uses the power of demons so if anything its more like calling link sword boy. also shes a deeply sexulized character designed by men isnt that in itself deeply misogynistic?
Lara's more iconic than... Lara? I do NOT get this, Lara Croft isn't a witch or anything. I'd assume you somehow thought Bayonetta was discussed but she wasn't designed by men so I have no ****ing clue what you're on about.



Anyway time for me to stop lurking to see people's opinions I guess.

Lara Chance: 20%. I'd say this is generous, Lara's genuinely one of the biggest names not yet in Smash, being from the third most profitable SE franchise too. The only thing that could hold her back is Sakurai potentially feeling she's too grounded, though Lara was put in Brawlhalla just fine recently so who knows

Lara Want: abstain, I own a bunch of Tomb Raider games but I haven't gotten around to playing them, I'd need to play them to form a better opinion beyond "It's Lara goddamn Croft".


Elma Chance: 1%, While X is clearly the most demanded Wii U port after Mario 3D World, that's only because every other game got ported already, Takahashi's expressed interest in porting X but says it'd be difficult to port, with X2 likely not being seen as worth greenlighting a few years ago. Elma's also unlucky in that if Nintendo wants to promote Xenoblade, they just released a game with characters who've already gotten proven popularity.

Elma Want: 100%. X left me with mixed feelings, albeit mostly positive. Elma's a very much needed breath of fresh air when it comes to Nintendo protag character designs, I really loved X's soundtrack due to it's very different vibe compared to other Nintendo IPs even if Sawano may cause issues for royalties. While I'm not sure if I'd buy a Xenoblade X Deluxe, I'd pop off seeing Elma in Smash.

EDIT: oh right, nominations are a thing. X5 SMT representation
 
Last edited:

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
I think he was talking about Bayo, who actually does use demons.
I mean, calling any mainstream female video game character such is still misogynistic and the way the post is phrased is clearly meant to be an insult so there's no "well, she's actually a witch who fights demons so I'm absolved of any wrong doing" when the tone gave away the game immediately. Bayonetta was also entirely designed by Mari Shimazaki and the series actually pushes the idea of owning sexuality as a tool of empowerment, so taking that icon who has been praised by numerous woman as a net positive female main character and still insulting the character as such, is still not great.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,421
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
I mean, calling any mainstream female video game character such is still misogynistic and the way the post is phrased is clearly meant to be an insult so there's no "well, she's actually a witch who fights demons so I'm absolved of any wrong doing" when the tone gave away the game immediately. Bayonetta was also entirely designed by Mari Shimazaki and the series actually pushes the idea of owning sexuality as a tool of empowerment, so taking that icon who has been praised by numerous woman as a net positive female main character and still insulting the character as such, is still not great.
Yeah, it's definitely not a good thing to call her. Still, just want to make sure we know who it's directed at.
 
Last edited:

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,116
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Miss. Video Games
Chance: 45%

When you think video games, who do you think? Mario? Maybe Pac-Man? Sonic? Pikachu?

Well, when I tell you to think of female video game characters, Lara Croft has got to be one of the first names that springs to mind alongside Samus Aran/Zelda/Peach/Dixie Kong/etc due to you all being Smash fans, but let's be real; Lara Croft is the biggest female video game icon of all time.

A lot of people sleep on Lara's chances but I feel that's because they desperately want one of her competitors be it 2B of Nier fame, Agnes of Bravely Default fame, Neku of the World Ends with You fame, Crono of Crono Trigger fame or Geno of Smash Bros. Speculation Super Mario RPG fame.

Tomb Raider's success eclipses all these other series and is one of the few video game franchises to successful break into the film industry too with a total of four films(one next year).

Tomb Raider is a steady successful series that Square will definitely want to keep pushing forward, the only real issue is the difference between classic Lara, who was a beloved 90s video game icon, and Square's modern reboot Lara who whilst still successful is far less memorable than her turquoise tank top wearing 90s older counterpart.

Want: 75%
Lara's actually got a lot to offer...well old school Lara has anyway.

I was a bit ignorant at first looking at her games thinking she was all acrobatics and dual pistols only, but she's actually got a ton of mythical macguffins in her titles that could really open up moveset possibilities. She can and has wielded:
  • Mjölnir otherwise known as Thor's hammer, allowing her to...well I mean you've all seen an Avengers film. She can manipulate lightning and open the gate to the underworld with it. It's also extremely heavy and can demolish monsters with ease.
  • Excalibur, aka King Arthur's sword. It's surging with mystical energy and can essentially fire beams
  • The Dagger of Xian Granted not sure how this one could be implemented but the main villain stabs his heart with it and he transforms into a dragon.
  • The Wraith Stone, which was briefly in Lara's possession can summon monsters
  • The Amulet of Horus and The Armour of Horus when gathered can summon the ancient egyptians
She's also discovered the Philosphers Stone, Pandora's Box and various other famed artifacts.

New Lara, I'm far less familiar with, but as she's now more grounded than past Lara it knocks a few want percent off of her. Lean into the mystical, wacky and wild abilities and I genuinely think Lara Croft could be an incredibly worthwhile addition.

Tickle Me Elma
Chance: 8%

Elma's pretty damn cool and would have made for a great newcomer in Ultimate.

However since Xenoblade X, we've had Rex's title with the successful Xenoblade 2 and Shulk's had a remake recently this year which pushes the likes of Fiora, Reyn and Dunban forward. Elma's title is the least ease of access one at current and the one that's finanically done worse due to being stuck on the Wii U.

If Xenoblade X gets the Deluxe treatment it could push Elma forward. Definitely a possibility when it and Super Mario 3D World are some of the few remaining Wii U exclusives that can be ported, although at current she has a severe case of competition within her series with Rex and Pyra and maybe even Fiora.

Want: 55%

Elma's title is the only Xenoblade game I've played and whilst it's not really for me, Elma is the single character I really enjoyed in the title. Dual guns, dual swords and mechas could allow Elma to have a really fun moveset.

Predictions:
Jibanyan: 7.2%
Agumon: 8.3%

Nominations:
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x 5
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,654
Location
Scotland
Lara's more iconic than... Lara? I do NOT get this, Lara Croft isn't a witch or anything. I'd assume you somehow thought Bayonetta was discussed but she wasn't designed by men so I have no ****ing clue what you're on about.
you missed the part where I said “since she got into smash” didn’t you?

I mean, calling any mainstream female video game character such is still misogynistic and the way the post is phrased is clearly meant to be an insult so there's no "well, she's actually a witch who fights demons so I'm absolved of any wrong doing" when the tone gave away the game immediately. Bayonetta was also entirely designed by Mari Shimazaki and the series actually pushes the idea of owning sexuality as a tool of empowerment, so taking that icon who has been praised by numerous woman as a net positive female main character and still insulting the character as such, is still not great.
Ok you are putting words in my mouth I never said anything about absolving myself of wrongdoing.

I’m sorry that you were insulted by my disliking of her. But everything I dislike about has got nothing to do with her being female. If it is sexist to call her a hag or a witch I’ll go back to calling her the false winner of the ballot.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,965
NNID
TCT~Phantom
fogbadge fogbadge quit being sexist this is your final warning on that. I didn’t think that I would have to step out and say this but being sexist is bad. I’m already not in a good mood today due to some rough irl things. Don’t test my patience, especially today.

Perkilator Perkilator It will end likely around 6-8 pm. I’m ending it earlier than usual since some people decided to be awful, but I don’t wanna short change people.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,654
Location
Scotland
fogbadge fogbadge quit being sexist this is your final warning on that. I didn’t think that I would have to step out and say this but being sexist is bad. I’m already not in a good mood today due to some rough irl things. Don’t test my patience, especially today.
how does disliking a character make me sexist? It is entirely about her character and nothing to do with the fact she’s female
 
Top Bottom