Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Lyncario]

Geno
Chances: 5%
I don't think of Geno as likely at all. I know the arguments for him, but it really does not make him likely in my opinion. Fan request for over a decade, something that Isaac also had, and look where it got him. Same could also be said for other characters like Leon Kennedy. And there's also the fact that his popularity comes from only a single part of the world, while in Japan he is only midly requested, and he is amlost non-existant in Europe due to SMRPG not getting ported there (the only poll results I can find are the one who were proven fake). Many fan favorite did not join Smash, and while Geno is seen as a big one, his popularity is very often overestimated, he's nowhere near the level of Banjo, K.Rool, Ridley, Palutena, Mewtwo, or Megaman before their reveals. The tracks being taken down is more of a coincidence, because while fanmade Banjo music and a fanmade remix of Megalovania for Smash were also taken down, so were other much more memey choices like some GTA tracks, and even a Baldi's Basic track from what I remember. Next, the mii costume. The fact that spirits don't disconfirm anymore is not debatable, it's just true thanks to Min Min, however Min Min also had Heihachi's mii costume come back, who like Geno had a mii costume in Sm4sh, and who like Geno, did not come back along the character with who it would have made sense for him to come back (especialy since Heihachi is in oF All Stars as a guest). So yeah, spirits don't disconfirm anymore, that's good for him, but that's also it. So yeah, he's unlikley in my opinion. Also while Sakurai wants him, NIntendo choose the dlc, and while they picked Banjo, they also picked Joker, who while he was kinda popular in SMash speculation he was stilll see as very unlikely, Terry who came out of complete left field for the better, Byleth who was mostly speculated as an innevatibility, and Min Min, when Arms rep were not really speculated other than Spring Man for the next game. He's still a posibility, but not likely for me.
Want: 45%
I'm mostly neutral on Geno but I know some really cool guys who want him, so I would be happy for them. Also more music from Yoko Shimomura in Smash is always good. Also he does have some moveset potential, but I never really went "that would be cool" to the idea of timed hits.

"Hello Roxas" "I am not Roxas" "Goodbye Roxas" "I am not Roxas"
Chance: 20%
Bla bla bla relevance, bla bla bla fan demand, bla bla bla moveset potential, bla bla bla apeared on a Nintendo system before and Melody of Memory will be on Switch. Abridging the stuff that is good for him because we all already heard it a thousand time already, and instead let's get to what goes against him. Disney. Arguably not a bad thing, actualy, as Disney already worked on a lot of things with Nintendo already. There's also the fact that Disney wants to push KH more ever since KH3 worked very well. And according to HMK, Disney hands out the series for not a lot, but HMK is a shaky source, even if some KH merch goes in the way of what he said. So, the one thing that goes against him is that while Disney would be fine wth him joining, they are still Disney, and so they would ask a lot of money, and we already know that the budget for the dlc is not as high as for the base game. I am sure that Sakurai went to Disney of Japan to ask for Sora in Smash, the question is more did Disney ask too much money for Sora in Smash. And I have no ida about that. Also Sora's english VA is in union or something for american voice actors, but so is Pit's english VA so I don't really see that as a problem.
Want: 100%
My third most wanted, and I sure as hell want him with all of my heart (he). He could be amazingly fun to play like he is in his games with a mix of keyblade, magic, and movement. Plus he would bring KH content in Smash, and I love KH so much, it's even my fourth favorite video game series behind Touhou, MegaTen, and Zelda. This content could include an amazing stage based on Destiny Island, or Traverse Town, or Hollow Bastion/Radiant Garden, or Twillight Town, ot even Scala Ad Caelum. And the music would be so great, like I said in the want section for Geno, more music from Yoko Shimomura in Smash is always a good thing. Also him having alts where you play as Roxas, Ventus, Vanitas, or Xion would be so great, even if Roxas is the only one with any kind of chance of getting that (which would still be amazing).

Predictions:
Rayman: 43.6%
Travis Touchdown: 69%

Nominations: SMT rep x5

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Even if that whole thing is just a fun music fan project that means nothing for Smash, it made me wish to see Geno in Smash more. To finally have him win something after many years of neglect.

I know how you feel, those awful tournaments tend top favor more memey characters to begin with. Both Geno and Quote (one of the characters I was cheering for) tend to be at awful disadvantages. Who did Geno have to go up against in his matches?

My sig can tell you that, but I'm more coming from a speculation point of view. I am sick to death of seeing Geno and Sora on every single wishlist and it's old. It tired and it's old. Frankly, I can't even want their fans to get the satisfaction of having them in, I am THAT fed up with seeing them everywhere, on every thread, on every speculation chat, on every Top 10 Characters For Smash video, everywhere. I wish people picked characters they actually wanted rather than supporting bandwagons just for the sake of it.

I know the feeling, I myself am sick of the constant Doom Slayer insistance/hype. Granted that's died down now but it was almost relentless last year. Smash Speculation is not friendly to a lot of characters.

I'm more understanding of Geno and Sora, though, since their fanbases have been long and persistant.

 

[Super10ZX]

I know how you feel, those awful tournaments tend top favor more memey characters to begin with. Both Geno and Quote (one of the characters I was cheering for) tend to be at awful disadvantages. Who did Geno have to go up against in his matches?

First off, awful? Both KFAD1 and KFAD2 were amazing! So much love but into the art, arrangements, writing, and everything else part of the tournament. I’d say people didn’t tend to favour “memey” characters either. Thanos, Mr. Krabs, and HOBaRT, some of the most memey characters, didn’t really make it that far. And most of the top spots (especially in KFAD2) were more driven by people just liking their music.

But to properly answer your question, Geno went up against Weird Al in winners Round 1 and got steamrolled, then was eliminated by Johnny Bravo in a fairly close match. Those two clearly didn’t win over Geno for memes or anything, more people just preferred the music they had to offer over Geno, and they both did pretty well in the tournament to boot.

 

[GoodGrief741]

My sig can tell you that, but I'm more coming from a speculation point of view. I am sick to death of seeing Geno and Sora on every single wishlist and it's old. It tired and it's old. Frankly, I can't even want their fans to get the satisfaction of having them in, I am THAT fed up with seeing them everywhere, on every thread, on every speculation chat, on every Top 10 Characters For Smash video, everywhere. I wish people picked characters they actually wanted rather than supporting bandwagons just for the sake of it.

Geno and Sora aren't bandwagons my dude. Bandwagons don't survive for as long as these two fandoms have, and stay as strong as they are.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

First off, awful? Both KFAD1 and KFAD2 were amazing! So much love but into the art, arrangements, writing, and everything else part of the tournament. I’d say people didn’t tend to favour “memey” characters either. Thanos, Mr. Krabs, and HOBaRT, some of the most memey characters, didn’t really make it that far. And most of the top spots (especially in KFAD2) were more driven by people just liking their music.

Tell that to Plastic Love...
Granted, I never expected a character like DJ Professor K to win

Also I'm surprised Johnny Bravo of all people was able to beat Geno. What was his source list?

 

[Super10ZX]

Tell that to Plastic Love...
Granted, I never expected a character like DJ Professor K to win

Also I'm surprised Johnny Bravo of all people was able to beat Geno. What was his source list?

Here’s a link to the full KFAD website to see every characters source list. But to just go over Johnny Bravo, his source list was music from Cartoon Network original properties, and music from Hanna-Barbera shows that aired on Cartoon Network (EXCLUDING The Flintstones and The Jetsons). It may be a little surprising he did well, but trust me he picked up some steam once he was down in Losers Bracket. After beating Geno, he took down Nico Nico and even Papyrus, before Weird Al came down to losers and eliminated him.

But yeah, this thread isn’t about these tournaments, so I don’t want to derail the thread any further.

 

[fogbadge]

Y'know, in another timeline Geno headed an original IP known as Legend of the Seven Stars, and his chances are that much higher because of it.

theres probably also a time line where scotland became independent, boris johnson is in jail and toad and chibi are in smash. but is best not to dwell on how things could have been

My sig can tell you that, but I'm more coming from a speculation point of view. I am sick to death of seeing Geno and Sora on every single wishlist and it's old. It tired and it's old. Frankly, I can't even want their fans to get the satisfaction of having them in, I am THAT fed up with seeing them everywhere, on every thread, on every speculation chat, on every Top 10 Characters For Smash video, everywhere. I wish people picked characters they actually wanted rather than supporting bandwagons just for the sake of it.

actually some of us want sora not because of a bandwagon but because weve been fans of the series for a number of years, played every instalment in one form or another, love the character and have been open to the idea of him in smash since our first ever 3rd party character long before they got involved in the greater smash community. so please dont write us off as being on a bandwagon, its a bit insulting.

 

[Cadillac]

I want Sora, and I never played KH before, just watched some. But I generally think his moveset could be interesting and his combo games seems amazing.

 

[Garteam]

I'd like to argue against Terry and Min Min's points. Terry was confined to SNK fanpolls and he's the mascot of the entire company, so of course they'd choose him. Fanpolls had nothing to do with it. As for Min Min, Yabuki just wanted her. No ATs, no promotions, no moveset potential, no popularity. Yabuki wanted Min Min, and Yabuki got Min Min. Plain and simple.

While Terry's popularity in the general SNK community really didn't translate to general Smash speculation, I don't see how it couldn't have at least contributed to his inclusion. If Sakurai was gunning for an SNK character and none of them were generally popular in the context of Smash, it makes sense that he would try and go for one thats most popular among SNK fans. Similarly, I don't think Terry was inevitable just because he was the mascot. That title didn't help Slime or Spring Man, while Terry also had genuine competition in Kyo and Nakoruru.

In regards to Min Min, while Yabuki definitely pushed her over the edge, I think the fact the final two considered to be the ARMS rep were two of the most popular characters in the cast isn't a coincidence. Min Min won the Party Crash, while Ninjara was the runner-up and was the most played character at the height of the game's popularity. Sakurai and Yabuki's discussion over Spring Man and the protagonist roll also suggests he was in the runner, and Spring Man is another one of ARMS' most popular characters.

There were definitely other factors, but I don't know if Terry or Min Min would be why they are if they weren't well-liked among the fans of their series.

"Plus, if Square was so focused on showing off their new stuff in Smash, why'd they let Geno be their one Mii costume in Smash 4 in the first place? Hell, why didn't they make Nomura put his foot down on getting a more recent Final Fantasy character for Smash 4? "

Because it was just as well for them. FF7 Remake was on the way, so they really didn't care.
As for the Geno costume, there was a Chocobo hat as well as you'll recall, and it's pretty clear that Sakurai's got more freedom with mii costumes than he does with fighters.

FF7 Remake hadn't even begun formal development when negotiations for Cloud would've began in mid 2015. Likewise, Nomura's reaction to Sakurai's request was initially "he's not a character from a new game", so its clear he didn't consider a Cloud a strong advertisement for what Square was cooking up at the time.

In regards to the Chocobo hat, I think it actually detracts from the concept that Square sees Smash as a big advertisement. If you have an opportunity to show off another modern franchise or game through a Mii costume, why would you dip back into Final Fantasy 7? Wouldn't it be smarter to, say, fight for a Slime hat to advertise Dragon Quest or a Lara Croft costume to advertise Tomb Raider?

 

[MisterMike]

Popularity does not equal relevance.

Relevance to what? Gaming as a whole? Sure, just because Geno's popular with Smash fans doesn't mean he's on the same level as Mario or Sonic in the grand scheme of things. But when it comes to Smash? Yeah, I'd say he's plenty relevant.

And how many of those 20 million would you say are part of the Smash bubble?

No clue, and I don't believe there's any definitive way to find out. Ultimately, the "Smash Bubble" is just a way to dismiss oft-requested characters as merely the requests of a vocal minority.

But it is a stronger argument when dealing with one of the few characters that have been one in the past?

Maybe a little due to the precedent, but my point still stands.

This presumes that popularity with the hardcore Smash crowd is the only thing that can work in a character's favor, when that's far from the truth.

I agree that it's not the end all be all when it comes to roster selection, but as the first Fighters Pass has shown us, while Nintendo can choose characters for reasons other than fan demand, it's still something they take into consideration.

Tons of Square Enix characters have good reasons to consider likely, even as likely as Geno, despite him being more popular.

You honestly can't tell me that Gex is just as likely as 2B to make it into Smash, or that they're more likely to choose Crono over Lara Croft. Come on, man.

I take it you haven't played NieR Automata if you think an android telekinetically wielding swords while simultaneously shooting with a floating turret needs any significant thought as to how she could be made unique.

While I concede that the turret would be unique, using a sword is using a sword. It doesn't really matter if she's holding it or not.

Nintendo only chose Banjo, the other two are Sakurai.

Wait, really? Huh, guess I misremembered. Still, they ended up choosing Banjo to please the fans, so it's not impossible or unlikely for them to choose characters that the fans really want.

Yeah, sure.

I can see the joke went clear over your head, so lemme explain it to you: The whole point of this joke was that I could be lazy and just say something needlessly mean and provocative, because saying that I don't believe Sora is likely is basically considered tantamount to being insulting to many people anyways, but I instead opted to not act like that and actually lay out my thoughts in a constructive manner.

Perhaps it wasn't the cleanest way to make that joke, but whatever.

The only entity they legally have to deal with is Disney, asking Nomura is a courtesy Disney has. Either way, asking for the approval of both the IP holder and the creative mind behind the character seems to be the standard, not really an additional hassle.

Not when there's a pandemic, as well as them being a whole continent away. So Nintendo in Japan has to deal with Disney in America, who has to deal with Nomura and SquareEnix in Japan. I dunno, kind of seems a bit more difficult.

Comparing that to getting a character from Sony is absurd.

Sony is a Japanese company. Nintendo is also a Japanese company. Nintendo approaching Sony to use one of their characters would be easier than if they decided to approach an overseas company.

Sora wields his blade nothing like Cloud or any other swordfighter. He wields it like a bat or a club.

... which is a weapon you swing around to hit people with, which is how you typically fight with a sword in fiction. Seriously, what is this argument?

He also relies much more on magic, and on AoE spells in particular, plus he's a lot more combo and aerial oriented.

I know that much, but how can this be incorporated into his Special Moves? That's mainly where I'm struggling with this. From what I've seen of the game's combat, it's mostly doing basic sword strikes, firing energy blasts, and creating Didney rides to nuke everything on the field. What else does he do that can be incorporated as his Side-Special or Up-Special? Seeing as I'm not the most knowledgeable on KH I have little idea.

Yeah, I could tell.

Pro tip: If you're only quoting someone to make a snarky comment, it'd be wise to not bother saying anything at all. It comes of as incredibly petty.

Which means nothing honestly because there isn't any credible insider talk about any character for FPV2.

Fair enough, but don't you find it weird that even when Fighters Pass 1 was coming out, there was all these rumors for all sorts of characters, yet there's been very little to nothing regarding Sora? Again I must stress, I don't believe this is a make it or break it thing, but I can't help but find it odd.

Steve is already due to be rated, so you don't have to nominate him.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't spend much time in these threads to know how the whole voting thing works.

 

[SharkLord]

While I concede that the turret would be unique, using a sword is using a sword. It doesn't really matter if she's holding it or not.

I highly doubt 2B's going to play identical to Marth, Ike, Cloud, or Link. If we're going off of that, Geno's just a wooden version of Mega Man or Samus, but we all know that isn't true.

... which is a weapon you swing around to hit people with, which is how you typically fight with a sword in fiction. Seriously, what is this argument?

As far as I can gather, it mean Sora's more wild and energetic with his swings while not being painfully slow, as opposed to Marth's graceful fencing or Ike's rough flailing. Then again, I only know Kingdom Hearts from Just A Pancake's videos on how Mario is Italian Xehanort, so...

Not when there's a pandemic, as well as them being a whole continent away. So Nintendo in Japan has to deal with Disney in America, who has to deal with Nomura and SquareEnix in Japan. I dunno, kind of seems a bit more difficult.

The pass was finalized around the time Terry was revealed and began development in November, after the Byleth overview was done. In addition, Nintendo's dealt with an American company and it's British subsiduary. It shouldn't be that much harder to deal with Sora.

Sony is a Japanese company. Nintendo is also a Japanese company. Nintendo approaching Sony to use one of their characters would be easier than if they decided to approach an overseas company.

Sony is a direct console competitor AND isn't nearly as open as Microsoft. Disney is on fairly good relations with Nintendo, seeing as they got Bowser in Wreck-It-Ralph and a couple games on Nintendo systems, most recently Tsum Tsum Festival, MUA3, and that KH spinoff. Even if Disney is overseas, at least Nintendo actually has connections with them.

 

[Sari]

We're in the year 2020 and there are still people who unironically think that all sword users would be the exact same?

Yikes.

 

[SharkLord]

We're in the year 2020 and there are still people who unironically think that all sword users would be the exact same?

Yikes.

This is what happens when FE swordsmen with similar aesthetics and/or fighting styles slowly pile up, followed by the EVERYONE IS HERE selling point preventing any of them from being dropped.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Relevance to what? Gaming as a whole? Sure, just because Geno's popular with Smash fans doesn't mean he's on the same level as Mario or Sonic in the grand scheme of things. But when

Relevance means that the character had a game, or at the very least appearances recently. It's not a synonym for popularity, or importance, or iconicness, or any other factor discussed in Smash speculation.

You can make the argument that Geno's popular, and even that his popularity lends him a degree of importance in terms of Smash (I made that point in my rating), but in no regard does this help his relevance.

No clue, and I don't believe there's any definitive way to find out. Ultimately, the "Smash Bubble" is just a way to dismiss oft-requested characters as merely the requests of a vocal minority.

If the people who request Geno are a minority of the Smash playerbase, and they certainly are vocal, they're a vocal minority.

I understand and agree with adding characters to placate the existing Smash fanbase. And Geno can be seen as serving that role. But he's far from the only character that can.

And to cite Ultimate's sales numbers as a reason to add Geno is misleading. 1. That number already includes casual Smash fans that aren't into speculation. And therefore wouldn't necessarily care about hardcore Smash fan demands. The closest number we have for "people who care about Smash speculation" are the votes in the Ballot, which were around 2million (though I assume the audience has grown since then). 2. Even if you make the point that those ~2mil fans are worth a character (I think they are), it's not like Geno works for all of that fanbase. Geno's an incredibly controversial character within the Smash fandom, moreso than any other of the big fan wants. So you must acknowledge that he doesn't even placate the entirety of the so-called "Smash bubble".

You honestly can't tell me that Gex is just as likely as 2B to make it into Smash, or that they're more likely to choose Crono over Lara Croft. Come on, man.

Did I mention Gex? I don't think I did. What I did say is that your notion that Geno is unmatched in chances for Square Enix characters is absurd.

If someone were to argue that Lara Croft is likelier than Geno, they'd have a point; she's move iconic, more relevant, and more influential than Geno. If someone were to argue that 2B is likelier than Geno, they'd also have a point. If someone were to say that Crono, or Neku, or Agnes, or another Square Enix character has a better likelihood than Geno, they'd have good points to make. And likewise, there are also good points to make for Geno being the likeliest of the Square Enix characters. But neither he nor any other are slam dunks, as you make it out to be. There isn't a clear order of priority anymore.

While I concede that the turret would be unique, using a sword is using a sword. It doesn't really matter if she's holding it or not.

I don't see why you won't drop this point seeing as you clearly have no knowledge of the game you're talking about.

Not when there's a pandemic, as well as them being a whole continent away. So Nintendo in Japan has to deal with Disney in America, who has to deal with Nomura and SquareEnix in Japan. I dunno, kind of seems a bit more difficult.

I'm pretty sure we're in different continents right now, we're still talking. Nintendo can communicate with Disney if they need to. It's no different than doing so with other Japanese companies, as travel restrictions are in place.

Sony is a Japanese company. Nintendo is also a Japanese company. Nintendo approaching Sony to use one of their characters would be easier than if they decided to approach an overseas company.

Sony is also Nintendo's console rival that probably wouldn't acquiesce to a character. And even if they did, their mascots are Western creations, so it would still require contacting, say, Cory Balrog for Kratos or Amy Hennig and Neil Druckmann for Nathan Drake. And they all live in the US.

... which is a weapon you swing around to hit people with, which is how you typically fight with a sword in fiction. Seriously, what is this argument?

You cut, slash, and stab with a sword. A bat is a blunt object. You can't seriously be making this argument.

I know that much, but how can this be incorporated into his Special Moves? That's mainly where I'm struggling with this. From what I've seen of the game's combat, it's mostly doing basic sword strikes, firing energy blasts, and creating Didney rides to nuke everything on the field. What else does he do that can be incorporated as his Side-Special or Up-Special? Seeing as I'm not the most knowledgeable on KH I have little idea.

I'm sure there's many fan-made moveset's in Sora's thread that illustrate how his many, many abilities could be used to craft a moveset.

Fair enough, but don't you find it weird that even when Fighters Pass 1 was coming out, there was all these rumors for all sorts of characters, yet there's been very little to nothing regarding Sora?

I don't. There's been rumors for tons of characters, even ridiculously unlikely ones like Katalina and KOS-MOS. If rumors meant anything we'd have seen Doomguy, Hayabusa, Steve, and Dante make the Pass. They didn't.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

On the thing about Deluxe/Premium Mii Costumes being specifically for indie characters, that's not the case anymore. Vault Boy isn't indie.

 

[fogbadge]

Not when there's a pandemic, as well as them being a whole continent away. So Nintendo in Japan has to deal with Disney in America, who has to deal with Nomura and SquareEnix in Japan. I dunno, kind of seems a bit more difficult.
.

i take it youve never heard of disney japan and nintendo of amaerica

 

[Cadillac]

Relevance to what? Gaming as a whole? Sure, just because Geno's popular with Smash fans doesn't mean he's on the same level as Mario or Sonic in the grand scheme of things. But when it comes to Smash? Yeah, I'd say he's plenty relevant.


No clue, and I don't believe there's any definitive way to find out. Ultimately, the "Smash Bubble" is just a way to dismiss oft-requested characters as merely the requests of a vocal minority.


Maybe a little due to the precedent, but my point still stands.


I agree that it's not the end all be all when it comes to roster selection, but as the first Fighters Pass has shown us, while Nintendo can choose characters for reasons other than fan demand, it's still something they take into consideration.


You honestly can't tell me that Gex is just as likely as 2B to make it into Smash, or that they're more likely to choose Crono over Lara Croft. Come on, man.


While I concede that the turret would be unique, using a sword is using a sword. It doesn't really matter if she's holding it or not.


Wait, really? Huh, guess I misremembered. Still, they ended up choosing Banjo to please the fans, so it's not impossible or unlikely for them to choose characters that the fans really want.


I can see the joke went clear over your head, so lemme explain it to you: The whole point of this joke was that I could be lazy and just say something needlessly mean and provocative, because saying that I don't believe Sora is likely is basically considered tantamount to being insulting to many people anyways, but I instead opted to not act like that and actually lay out my thoughts in a constructive manner.

Perhaps it wasn't the cleanest way to make that joke, but whatever.


Not when there's a pandemic, as well as them being a whole continent away. So Nintendo in Japan has to deal with Disney in America, who has to deal with Nomura and SquareEnix in Japan. I dunno, kind of seems a bit more difficult.


Sony is a Japanese company. Nintendo is also a Japanese company. Nintendo approaching Sony to use one of their characters would be easier than if they decided to approach an overseas company.


... which is a weapon you swing around to hit people with, which is how you typically fight with a sword in fiction. Seriously, what is this argument?


I know that much, but how can this be incorporated into his Special Moves? That's mainly where I'm struggling with this. From what I've seen of the game's combat, it's mostly doing basic sword strikes, firing energy blasts, and creating Didney rides to nuke everything on the field. What else does he do that can be incorporated as his Side-Special or Up-Special? Seeing as I'm not the most knowledgeable on KH I have little idea.


Pro tip: If you're only quoting someone to make a snarky comment, it'd be wise to not bother saying anything at all. It comes of as incredibly petty.


Fair enough, but don't you find it weird that even when Fighters Pass 1 was coming out, there was all these rumors for all sorts of characters, yet there's been very little to nothing regarding Sora? Again I must stress, I don't believe this is a make it or break it thing, but I can't help but find it odd.


Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't spend much time in these threads to know how the whole voting thing works.

Hey, watch this.

 

[warpenguin55]

Geno:
Chance: 10%
I don't think we'll see another Square rep in this pass. If we do, Geno is probably top 2 or 3 in contention for the slot. But we do also have to remember, his Mii Costume is still looming in the shadows, potentially getting ready to strike.

Want: 45%
I'll take him or leave him. I don't really care either way.

Sora
Chance: 10%
First, FFS people, wasn't it already confirmed that disney wasn't the problem to negotiate with? If not that's my bad. Moving on, in the 5 minutes or so it took me to go from Geno to Sora, I still haven't changed my mind on if we'll be getting a Square Rep. It's still a no for me dog. He's up there with Geno towards the top of the contender standings.

Want: 45%
Same as Geno. I'll take him or leave him. No personal attachment, don't care if he gets in or not.

Noms: Hades x5

 

[AugustusB]

DMs exist y'all. So to get back on track, I can't find my old post so I will post anew.

Geno
Chance: 65%
Regardless how anyone feels about the character, they have been in Smash speculation since late Melee/Brawl times, had a little dip in Sm4sh and resurfaced after the whole "Sakurai talks about wanting Geno OMG" moment.
This guy has been through the ringer from people thinking they would be back with Hero as a Mii Costume to actually not returning. Yes, in hindsight, it "Makes sense" for Hero to only have Dragon Quest costumes, but if you look back during that time...a lot of people were surprised. (Yes Chocobo as well but yada yada yada). And now with Min Min destroying the Spirit rule, Geno and many others have a chance.

Want: 100%
This character is truly an oddity. Seriously, how incredible that this supposed one off, irrelevant, Mario character has been talked about this long. I played SMRPG almost 2 years ago and it was a joy to see the first time The Mushroom Kingdom have personality. One of my best friends loves that game and wanted Geno for a long time. So I am kind of going off that.

Sora
Chance: 50%
I am of the mind that he is either happening or not. It really depends on Square, Nintendo AND Disney agreeing on how to make it work. (Duh, right?) I could see Sora being used as a tie in to Kingdom Hearts Collection on Switch. He (potentially) may not have had a strong fanbase in the earlier years of speculation, but it has certainly grown into something big. That much cannot be denied.

Want: Ready for the kicker.......100%
I love Kingdom Hearts. It was that one game series I took a chance on and it was just a delight. Even though I have STRONG reservations towards KH3, it does not overshadow my want for the character. The idea of Sora smacking Snake with a Keyblade is hiliarious to me. Also, if by some miracle Disney would be cool with Donald and Goofy being in somehow, then that is HUGE.

Predictions: Ehh

Nominations: Dealers choice.

 

[SSGuy]

Previous comments on Geno:
I think a lot has happened and has been surfacing the past few months to really bolster his chances. Obviously Min Min's inclusion has removed Geno's greatest hurdle. There has been a lot of unique developments regarding the GameStop slip up in their Origami King video and murmurs behind those who are genuinely fans of Geno. A lot of what is going on with him is similar to Hero where it's one of those 50/50 deals. However, I think my odds for Geno have increased in the past month. And I'm usually one of the most cynical fans of Geno. It seems like such a Nintendo move to just continue to ignore Mario fans and pull a Modern Paper Mario by just adding some ****ty Generic Toad instead.

However, I think we have a shot a getting the good ending for once!

Chance: 65% (+15 since February)

Want: 110% (Has not changed. Still my most wanted.)

Abstain on Sora and Nomination

Here is my updated post that I added in my earlier message.

I will mention this about Sora real quick. I think in terms of a Fighter Pass character, his chances seem more than dead in the water. Too much red tape to truly convince me that he would be included.

However, I think if we are looking at a scenario where Sakurai wants to do bonus fighters outside of a Fighter's Pass, then I think Sora could be a real possibility.
But until we get any confirmation on bonus individual fighters (like ) I don't think Sora has a shot.

 

[JCKirbs]

I'm not about to back a character just because they've been requested for years either, that's a poor reason to support any character, and considering how Banjo was treated, Geno would never live up the hype. Maybe it's better he stay out.

The only poor reasons I see for wanting a character are:
- Wanting them only because you want to piss people off
- Wanting them just to spite another character and/or their fans

Bandwagoning is probably just as much of a slippery slope, but if you just want to see others happy then I don’t see a problem with it.

 

[SSGuy]

The only poor reasons I see for wanting a character are:
- Wanting them only because you want to piss people off
- Wanting them just to spite another character and/or their fans

Bandwagoning is probably just as much of a slippery slope, but if you just want to see others happy then I don’t see a problem with it.

I can't stress how good this post is.

hmm two characters who arent owned by who people think own them

gonna abstain on the king of nostalgia bait as i have lost all respect for the character

My sig can tell you that, but I'm more coming from a speculation point of view. I am sick to death of seeing Geno and Sora on every single wishlist and it's old. It tired and it's old. Frankly, I can't even want their fans to get the satisfaction of having them in, I am THAT fed up with seeing them everywhere, on every thread, on every speculation chat, on every Top 10 Characters For Smash video, everywhere. I wish people picked characters they actually wanted rather than supporting bandwagons just for the sake of it.

Trying to shame people for liking a character over a theoretical bandwagon is dumb imo. Both Geno and Sora have been stupid popular picks for almost a full decade (Geno almost two decades) so of course they are only going to continue to grow. You would think people who just want others to be happy deserve a little more respect than just being considered to just be mindlessly jumping onto a bandwagon.

Like I get any reason someone would not want either of these characters in, but the idea that fans are annoying or bandwagons are stupid only makes one look like a cynical fool.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I wish people picked characters they actually wanted rather than supporting bandwagons just for the sake of it.

You know, just because YOU don't want a character, doesn't automatically mean that everyone else who wants that character is faking it.

 

[Proceleon]

I can't stress how good this post is.





Trying to shame people for liking a character over a theoretical bandwagon is dumb imo. Both Geno and Sora have been stupid popular picks for almost a full decade (Geno almost two decades) so of course they are only going to continue to grow. You would think people who just want others to be happy deserve a little more respect than just being considered to just be mindlessly jumping onto a bandwagon.

Like I get any reason someone would not want either of these characters in, but the idea that fans are annoying or bandwagons are stupid only makes one look like a cynical fool.

Honestly, I might even tolerate a boring pick like Sora if it meant keeping Geno out.

You know, just because YOU don't want a character, doesn't automatically mean that everyone else who wants that character is faking it.

I know, but I stand by my statement that wanting a character just because they're a popular choice is a poor reason.

 

[MisterMike]

I highly doubt 2B's going to play identical to Marth, Ike, Cloud, or Link. If we're going off of that, Geno's just a wooden version of Mega Man or Samus, but we all know that isn't true.

Well, it's a good thing I wasn't saying I believe that, isn't it? And really, the conceit of the whole "swordfighter bad" isn't exclusively that they all play like Marth or Link. Merely having a sword is enough to qualify for some people.

As far as I can gather, it mean Sora's more wild and energetic with his swings while not being painfully slow, as opposed to Marth's graceful fencing or Ike's rough flailing.

No, I'm pretty sure he was saying Sora's Keyblade is more like a Baseball or a Club than Cloud's Buster Sword is. But even if he was saying that, Cloud's attacks in Smash 4 and Ultimate are also very wild and energetic, especially his aerials.

The pass was finalized around the time Terry was revealed and began development in November, after the Byleth overview was done. In addition, Nintendo's dealt with an American company and it's British subsiduary. It shouldn't be that much harder to deal with Sora.

Well, if Disney has to sign off with another company to allow Nintendo to use their character, I still think it would at least be a little bit more difficult. But I guess I can give you that one.

Sony is a direct console competitor AND isn't nearly as open as Microsoft. Disney is on fairly good relations with Nintendo, seeing as they got Bowser in Wreck-It-Ralph and a couple games on Nintendo systems, most recently Tsum Tsum Festival, MUA3, and that KH spinoff. Even if Disney is overseas, at least Nintendo actually has connections with them.

Fair enough, I guess.

We're in the year 2020 and there are still people who unironically think that all sword users would be the exact same?

Yikes.

No, we're in the year 2020 where I said Sora, from by baseline layman knowledge of how he fights in his games, would be similar in fighting style to Cloud specifically. Also, I never said that I believe all swordfighters are the same.

Relevance means that the character had a game, or at the very least appearances recently. It's not a synonym for popularity, or importance, or iconicness, or any other factor discussed in Smash speculation.

You can make the argument that Geno's popular, and even that his popularity lends him a degree of importance in terms of Smash (I made that point in my rating), but in no regard does this help his relevance.

I never said it did. What are you even arguing about with this point?

If the people who request Geno are a minority of the Smash playerbase, and they certainly are vocal, they're a vocal minority.

But how do you know for certain that they're a minority? How have you determined that? My point is you can't, because it's virtually impossible to clearly determine just how many people actually want a character simply by how much you hear of them.

And to cite Ultimate's sales numbers as a reason to add Geno is misleading. 1. That number already includes casual Smash fans that aren't into speculation. And therefore wouldn't necessarily care about hardcore Smash fan demands. The closest number we have for "people who care about Smash speculation" are the votes in the Ballot, which were around 2million (though I assume the audience has grown since then). 2. Even if you make the point that those ~2mil fans are worth a character (I think they are), it's not like Geno works for all of that fanbase.

Yeah, it wasn't meant to be an accurate number, but rather a quick a dirty hypothetical. Obviously not everyone who buys the game is a hardcore Smash fan, hell it's likely that a good number of these sales were double purchases by one person who wanted a copy of Smash Ultimate in mint condition. Honestly though, how do you even define what the "Smash Bubble" is? What's the objective criteria that dictates who counts as part of this "Smash Bubble", and how do you reason what percentage of the fanbase constitutes this "Smash Bubble"? Again, my point is that it's nothing but a buzzword people use to discredit certain characters.

Geno's an incredibly controversial character within the Smash fandom, moreso than any other of the big fan wants.

Why do you believe that is, exactly? My personal theory is that it's all just backlash to Geno's newfound popularity and ubiquity in the wake of Banjo getting in, because before people used to hate on Banjo the same way they hate Geno now, and before that people used to hate on King K. Rool the same way they hated on Banjo then. Basically, Hype Backlash.

So you must acknowledge that he doesn't even placate the entirety of the so-called "Smash bubble".

Why is it that I get this implication from you that casuals don't want characters that the more hardcore Smash fans want? I mean, I'm pretty sure there are casual Smash fans who also want Sora in Smash even though they don't do Smash speculation, or even

Did I mention Gex? I don't think I did. What I did say is that your notion that Geno is unmatched in chances for Square Enix characters is absurd.

You said that tons of SquareEnix character are as likely as Geno is for Smash. Gex is a SquareEnix-owned character. If you didn't want me bringing up Gex, then you should've offered several comparable examples. Thankfully you've rectified that in the following paragraph, so it's all good.

If someone were to argue that Lara Croft is likelier than Geno, they'd have a point; she's more iconic, more relevant, and more influential than Geno. If someone were to argue that 2B is likelier than Geno, they'd also have a point. If someone were to say that Crono, or Neku, or Agnes, or another Square Enix character has a better likelihood than Geno, they'd have good points to make. And likewise, there are also good points to make for Geno being the likeliest of the Square Enix characters. But neither he nor any other are slam dunks, as you make it out to be. There isn't a clear order of priority anymore.

First off, I never said Geno was the only SquareEnix character who has a chance. I believe that 2B has a good chance to make it in over Geno. Second, if there's no clear order of priority anymore, how can someone argue that Lara Croft more likely than Geno? Hell, how can someone argue that my boy Gex is less likely than Lara Croft?

You cut, slash, and stab with a sword. A bat is a blunt object. You can't seriously be making this argument.

Well, it's a good thing that's not the argument I'm making. In actuality, the argument I'm making is that Sora's Keyblade is not a ****ing bat or club.

I'm sure there's many fan-made moveset's in Sora's thread that illustrate how his many, many abilities could be used to craft a moveset.

Never said there wasn't, just that I had no idea due to my lack of knowledge of KH. It's so funny to me that everyone is willing to diss me for lacking in knowledge of how Sora fights in KH to make a moveset for Smash even though I make it very clear that I lack in knowledge of how Sora fights in KH to make a moveset for Smash.

On the thing about Deluxe/Premium Mii Costumes being specifically for indie characters, that's not the case anymore. Vault Boy isn't indie.

But is the Vault Boy costume really a "Deluxe Mii Costume"? I mean, it doesn't come with a song unlike Sans and Cuphead. Though to be fair, the term is very poorly defined and not even an official designation.

Hey, watch this.

Sure thing.

The only poor reasons I see for wanting a character are:
- Wanting them only because you want to piss people off
- Wanting them just to spite another character and/or their fans

Bandwagoning is probably just as much of a slippery slope, but if you just want to see others happy then I don’t see a problem with it.

For the record, while I don't want a new Pokemon as DLC, I could deal with Toxtricity, Urshifu, or Cinderace getting in because then people who want a fully evolved Grass Starter would be mad.

 

[Powerman293]

Geno

Chances: Abstain

I generally am not a fan of rating character's chances, but Geno seems to exist in a quantum state of having a 0% to 100% chance at the same time.

His rights issues would have killed any other character's chances. But his fan demand would have guaranteed his chances. Even his obscurity could either be a hindrance or blessing depending on the perspective.

Want: 100%

I mainly want him for the moveset potential. Even if they don't do Timed hits as a gimmick, he's got such a weird thing going on with guns and blasts and star power I wanna see it executed at all.

Sora:Abstain

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

You honestly can't tell me that Gex is just as likely as 2B to make it into Smash

Nope, but he'd certainly be a better and more interesting choice!

 

[SharkLord]

Welp, back to the endless spiral of Geno again.

EDIT: Actually, are we even arguing Geno at this point? I can't tell anymore...

 

[MisterMike]

Nope, but he'd certainly be a better and more interesting choice!

Agreed. People talk about how great Near: A Tomato's music is, and while it is pretty spectacular, it can't hold a candle to the dank tracks in Gex 2.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Agreed. People talk about how great Near: A Tomato's music is, and while it is pretty spectacular, it can't hold a candle to the dank tracks in Gex 2.

Sari I think this guy's trying to steal your job.

 

[MisterMike]

Sari I think this guy's trying to steal your job.

His job is mine. He has no choice.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I know, but I stand by my statement that wanting a character just because they're a popular choice is a poor reason.

If wanting a character because they're popular is a bad reason to want a character, then disliking them because they're popular is equally dumb.

But how do you know for certain that they're a minority? How have you determined that? My point is you can't, because it's virtually impossible to clearly determine just how many people actually want a character simply by how much you hear of them.

Burden of proof is on you, my man. You made the claim that a Geno being a Smash bubble pick is not a bad thing, citing Smash sales numbers. But to claim that, you need to prove, ultimately, that Geno is supported by a majority of Smash fans, as otherwise he isn't even a Smash bubble pick.

If you really believe that the majority of Smash fans support Geno, then please tell me so.

Why do you believe that is, exactly?

Because Geno is a character with zero merit, claim to fame, or reason why he deserves to be in Smash – he's all popularity. I love the guy, but it's pretty clear why people wouldn't want a character with his credentials in Smash.

The backlash against Geno isn't comparable to the ones that Banjo, or K. Rool, or even Ridley went through. Ridley's is close in intensity, but none of those were as expansive.

Why is it that I get this implication from you that casuals don't want characters that the more hardcore Smash fans want?

For many characters that's not the case, but Geno is such a specifically niche, deep-cut character in speculation, I don't expect casuals to even know about him, let alone support him.

First off, I never said Geno was the only SquareEnix character who has a chance.

"There are plenty of other SquareEnix characters that are more likely than he is!" they claim, despite most of them having significantly less popularity or demand compared. The closest we get to credible competition for Geno on the SquareEnix side of things are Sora and 2B. One of them would require a significant amount of design tweaking in order to hide their luscious thighs, as well as needing to find a way to make them unique compared to every other sword user already on the roster, whereas the other one isn't even owned by SquareEnix, so they realistically wouldn't be competition as a "SquareEnix rep", as the cool kids like to say. Everyone else pales in comparison to Geno's popularity and demand; Crono, Lara Croft, my boy Gex, even other Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest characters.

That's your argument refuting the notion that other characters could be seen as likelier than Geno. If you think that 2B could be likelier than him, that's not the vibe that post gave off.

Well, it's a good thing that's not the argument I'm making. In actuality, the argument I'm making is that Sora's Keyblade is not a ****ing bat or club.

Proof?

It's so funny to me that everyone is willing to diss me for lacking in knowledge of how Sora fights in KH to make a moveset for Smash even though I make it very clear that I lack in knowledge of how Sora fights in KH to make a moveset for Smash.

If people are dissing you it's because you insist to debate people on a subject that you admit to knowing nothing about.

 

[JCKirbs]

Welp, back to the endless spiral of Geno again.
View attachment 281541
EDIT: Actually, are we even arguing Geno at this point? I can't tell anymore...

Is it time to feel bad for Geno fans again, already?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

The backlash against Geno isn't comparable to the ones that Banjo, or K. Rool, or even Ridley went through. Ridley's is close in intensity, but none of those were as expansive.

Building on this, there's definitely a rift between the Ridley/K. Rool/Banjo trio and Geno. The former two are the big antagonists of major Nintendo franchises and Banjo was one of the N64's mascots, even appearing in TV ads and on N64 box art. Geno's a one-off from an RPG spinoff that got a cameo in a later game then disappeared until Smash. He's got a lot plenty of merits, but he doesn't have nearly the level of credentials that the trio has.

Granted I'll gladly take him over 2B or a Bravely rep, but his main claim to fame is still fan demand.

 

[Perkilator]

Can we please end this day ASAP? I don’t wanna see this discussion turn into a flame war.

 

[MisterMike]

Can we please end this day ASAP? I don’t wanna see this discussion turn into a flame war.

If this is a flame war, it's the slowest flame war I've ever seen.

 

[Perkilator]

If this is a flame war, it's the slowest flame war I've ever seen.

I didn’t say it was. I said I didn’t wanna see it turn into one.

 

[MisterMike]

Burden of proof is on you, my man. You made the claim that Geno being a Smash bubble pick is not a bad thing, citing Smash sales numbers. But to claim that, you need to prove, ultimately, that Geno is supported by a majority of Smash fans, as otherwise he isn't even a Smash bubble pick.

If you really believe that the majority of Smash fans support Geno, then please tell me so.

I wasn't trying to argue that Geno is supported by a majority of Smash fans. While I'll concede I may have worded it a tad poorly, my point was that the so-called vocal minority people keep using to dismiss oft discussed characters like Geno, the "Smash Bubble", isn't as insignificant as people try to make it seem. The sales figures were brought up as a hypothetical number of all of the Smash fans ever, both casual and hardcore. Assuming that only 10% of that is made up of hardcore Smash fans, the people who constitute the "Smash Bubble", that's still 2 million people in that bubble. That's a minority, sure, but it's still 2 million people. That's not an insignificant number.

The backlash against Geno isn't comparable to the ones that Banjo, or K. Rool, or even Ridley went through. Ridley's is close in intensity, but none of those were as expansive.

It's easy to say that after they've already came to Smash, after all of the vitriol has long since subsided and been forgotten. But there's always been significant pushback for these characters. K. Rool probably had it the best, followed by Ridley, and Banjo with the worst of it. Reason I say Banjo was worse in this regard was because, as long as the Ridley thing went on for, it never spawned anything as bad and as toxic to discussion as the Grotesque Steve meme.

For many characters that's not the case, but Geno is such a specifically niche, deep-cut character in speculation, I don't expect casuals to even know about him, let alone support him.

Well, given how these characters are discussed regularly it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for the more casual Smash fans to not only learn of these characters, but also come to like and support them. I believe the term often used to describe this is referred to as "Bandwagoning".

That's your argument refuting the notion that other characters could be seen as likelier than Geno. If you think that 2B could be likelier than him, that's not the vibe that post gave off.

Wait, whoops, I misspoke. What I meant to say was that I believe 2B has a decent chance to make it in, though I still think Geno is more likely. Sorry about that.

Proof?

When I said that I, with my layman knowledge, struggle to come up with a moveset for Sora that would work in Smash, and that I imagine him being similar to Cloud mechanically, you replied with

Sora wields his blade nothing like Cloud or any other swordfighter. He wields it like a bat or a club.

I replied that swords, bats and clubs are all swinging weapons. You replied as if I was confused of the differences between swords, bats and clubs. Of course what I actually meant was that whether they cut or bash it was neither here nor there, believing that if Sora were to come to Smash he would swing his swords in a similar way to how Cloud does in Smash.

If people are dissing you it's because you insist to debate people on a subject that you admit to knowing nothing about.

When I made my rating of Sora, I anticipated that people would take issue with it because it seems that everyone will take issue with my opinions about characters in Smash no matter what so long as I'm negative about a character most people like, even though they regularly do likewise, often in a more rude and inflammitory way, towards characters they don't like without calling every contrarian opinion down upon them like divine judgement.

What I didn't anticipate was that they'd expect me to have a full encyclopedic knowledge of Sora's myriad abilities from well over 10 games I've never played in order to accurately express my opinion that I don't believe Sora has enough to make a complete, varied and fair moveset out of. An opinion, might I add, that I'm well aware is lacking information, one that I'm perfectly willing to change upon doing some research or being presented with some good moveset concepts.

I don't care that people found that take uninformed, because I'm prefectly willing to admit that it is. What I'm taking issue with is people acting suprised that my uninformed opinion is uninformed. I mean, what the **** did you expect?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well, given how these characters are discussed regularly it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for the more casual Smash fans to not only learn of these characters, but also come to like and support them. I believe the term often used to describe this is referred to as "Bandwagoning".

Ultimately, all that Geno has going for him is his design. If you don't like the design, you're not going to want Geno.

With other popular characters, even if they aren't into the character itself, people can still latch onto other qualities such as their historical significance, their role in their franchise, and the games they represent. Which makes characters more palatable for the undecided. If you don't like Ridley, you don't have to support him, but since he's still an iconic character and the main villain of a huge franchise, you can still respect his merits and therefore his inclusion in Smash.

With Geno, if people don't like his design, they'll consider him a waste of a slot, so that's why Geno's such a love-him-or-hate-him type character.

I wasn't trying to argue that Geno is supported by a majority of Smash fans. While I'll concede I may have worded it a tad poorly, my point was that the so-called vocal minority people keep using to dismiss oft discussed characters like Geno, the "Smash Bubble", isn't as insignificant as people try to make it seem. The sales figures were brought up as a hypothetical number of all of the Smash fans ever, both casual and hardcore. Assuming that only 10% of that is made up of hardcore Smash fans, the people who constitute the "Smash Bubble", that's still 2 million people in that bubble. That's a minority, sure, but it's still 2

If the point you're trying to make is that the Geno fanbase is large enough to get noticed, I'll absolutely concede. But it was hard to get that from your original statement.

I replied that swords, bats and clubs are all swinging weapons. You replied as if I was confused of the differences between swords, bats and clubs. Of course what I actually meant was that whether they cut or bash it was neither here nor there, believing that if Sora were to come to Smash he would swing his swords in a similar way to how Cloud does in Smash.

I'll put it this way: I've never seen another character in a videogame wield a sword like Sora wields his keyblade.

I don't care that people found that take uninformed, because I'm prefectly willing to admit that it is. What I'm taking issue with is people acting suprised that my uninformed opinion is uninformed. I mean, what the **** did you expect?

If you acknowledge that you're uninformed, people expect you to concede when other, better informed people tell you that your conceptions are wrong. If you don't know anything about aviation and start arguing with a pilot on how to fly a plane, you've kind of lost already.

 

[Kremling Kommander]

Haven’t made a prediction post on this thread ever, so I figured that changes today!

Geno:
Chance Score: 65%

I honestly think Geno is in a good position. Likely, but not too likely. He already has obvious fan demand, which is impressive especially for a character who has only appeared in one game 24 years ago. And although Geno hasn’t appeared yet as a playable character, Sakurai is well aware of the demand especially with the Mii Costume in Smash 4. The Mii Costume not coming back especially with Hero is a big outliner that he could be upgraded, but then again Heihachi’s costume was held back, so it’s always a possibility. Aside from that, spirits not deconfirming thanks to Min Min is huge for him, giving him a bigger shot of getting in. There’s more evidence such as the potential Cacodemon leak and music takedowns, however the leak could ultimately be fake and the takedowns may mean nothing.
Overall though, I think Geno has a good shot. He’s one of the last old fan favorites not in yet(Isaac probably being the one exception), so seeing him in Ultimate would already be icing on the cake. However, I don’t want to overthink his chances, as for the last time I did that for Shadow and Skull Kid, it did not end well.
Want Score: 85%
I love the Mario RPGs and especially all the unique characters in them, Geno being no difference(a star spirit inhabiting a doll who can turn into a LITERAL cannon and fire bullets from his fingers). However, one the the main reasons I want him is because of how sick his moveset potential could be. The idea of manually inputting timed hits for extra damage sounds sick as hell, and the idea of him being a glass cannon would be perfect. Another reason is because I would like the Mario RPGs to have more representation in Smash. Of course there’s some M&L and Paper Mario music tracks and one Paper Mario stage, but there isn’t much otherwise. Geno could bring in a plethora of music tracks from not just Mario RPG, but also many other Mario RPG music from the first three Paper Mario games as well as the first two Mario and Luigi games. Hell, they could even throw in some Final Fantasy tracks if they wanted to!

Sora
Chance Score: 55%
I’m believe it could go either way for Sora. On one hand, getting the rights from both Disney and Square, while not impossible for sure, would still be troublesome due to how funds would be split. In addition, we also have the infamous “many Disney characters in Kingdom Hearts” argument and that omitting them from Smash would feel weird.
On the other hand though, we know that Disney is open if Nintendo wants to play ball with them, it’s just down to Square if they want Sora as well(which I can see going well). As for the Kingdom Hearts universe, there are still plenty of original characters to draw from so there is no issue there. Finally, Sora is absolutely one of the most wanted newcomers for Ultimate, almost always cracking Top 10 in every poll. Regardless of what anyone says, the demand is there.
Want Score: 60%
I’ve never played a Kingdom Hearts game and I don’t know much about it, yet the universe itself and Sora as a character make me very intrigued for what they have to offer. I don’t know much about what Sora can do but seeing online posts and fanmade movesets have convinced me that this character would bring a lot to offer to the table, as well as amazing songs and a stage. As for Sora himself, I see him the same way as Geno, both underdogs who face many obstacles in their way, but would satisfy many fans if they got in. Perhaps one day, I hope to play KH to find out what makes it so great.

Side note: Despite both being affiliated as rivals in the speculation scene, I really don’t believe they are competitors considering Geno is owned by Square and Sora is owned by Disney, for all we know maybe they could both get in.

Noms: Bandanna Waddle Dee x5