Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Ridrool64]

Cherry Blossom number #1056486

Chance: 15% for now, but this is another example of a slow burning character who's gonna go higher as time goes on... her franchise, that is. I dunno about the girl herself. It really depends on if, like Puyo and Yakuza, SEGA wants Sakura Wars to be another pillar of their gaming ventures or not. Beyond the obvious competitor with Arle (who is currently mopping the floor with her in western support, but in Japanese support they seem to be closer), I currently don't think she has what it takes to beat Kiryu, SEGA's other non-Sonic darling. The series was apparently dormant in terms of major entries for almost two decades, which is what I believe totally killed Axel Stone/Blaze Fielding. Unlike Arle and Kiryu, Shinguji is not necessarily even the first choice from her own franchise, as she competes with fellow Sakura Amamiya (which is why I called her Shinguji, she's not only not the only candidate from her series, but isn't even the only Sakura) and assuming Amamiya sticks around, we may end up in a Narukami vs. Joker situation, and we know who won that. (Albeit, they could be alts of each other, apparently? But that doesn't necessarily guarantee that would happen.)

For now, I think her best chance is as a Swordfighter costume.

Want: 0%. Remember Billy Hatcher? It's basically him but relevant. Unlike Billy, I can at least see why she should get in, but much like him I still can't really follow the logic of not Kiryu at all. It's another case of not personal (I have beef with Ryo or Segata getting in, but not beef with Axel/Kiryu/Sakura. Still disappointing, but not one that would make me feel insulted.) at least, but her game hasn't interested me yet.

Arle and CJ x 5. Zelda of the Wild was shot down for pretty much no reason...? 8.20%.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I want to do more research before I post my rating later today.

In terms of concrete news, the RTC tournament poll has ended... with a tie. Please respond to this poll and we can choose the final date.

There also is something brewing in the RTC discord, but until a date and the core ideas are locked down, it won't be announced...yet.

 

[cashregister9]

Chance: 50%: I'm shockingly confident in a SEGA rep and honestly it is a battle between Sakura and Kiryu, I'm factoring in both Sakuras for this RTC personally because I cannot see them adding one without the other

Want 100%: Sakura is tied for my most wanted with Estelle, She would bring unique swordplay and maybe even a mech.

 

[Inue Houji]

Sakura Shinguji
Chance: 8%
Not much to say that hasn't already been said. It's another franchise that is well known in Japan, but pretty obscure in the west. Though it has the backing of Sega behind it, it also has a lot of competition within the company. Compared to Billy Hatcher though, she at least has a legacy. Once again, this could be something Sakurai might pick, but I doubt Nintendo will. There is the possibility of a port of New Sakura Wars to the switch though, which would increase its chances.

Want: 5%
Though I usually don't like cutesy waifu bait type stuff, there's something about this series that intrigues me. I can't really put my finger on it.
Having a mecha character would be cool I guess. The series getting in would also confirm the possibility of future Japanese cult series, like Touhou.
I might give this series a shot in the future.

Predict Zelda(BotW): 11%

Nominations
Adol Christin x10

 

[Jomosensual]

Sakura

Chance 1 - I don't really see this happening. Being from Sega is good but the series isn't localized, which is a massive hit since Sakurai's comments about Lucas(who let's remember, was cut from Smash 4 originally) and Takamaru among others. There's also a lot more iconic and well known series to pick from with Sega, with most of those characters having better cases. Eggman or Tails would make a ton of sense for Sonic reps because of how iconic they are, Puyo Puyo is extremely popular in Japan and Arle is one of the most requested characters from there, and Kiryu would be a Joker like addition with how well known and under speculated Yakuza is. And like with KOS MOS, no I dont think being in other crossovers means anything here. We've had Sega in since Brawl and if both Sega and Nintendo really wanted her she'd probably be here by now in some way, shape, or form.

Want 0 - Pass. The Japan only characters(no matter in popularity or release) are the characters I have just no interest in, especially when we have so many western characters with great legacies not in the game yet. Eventually down the road I might be more interested in seeing these characters in, but for now it feels like the western reps have gotten the shaft so much lately that I want to see a lot of them make it in first. And to clarify, I do not count Dragon Quest among those as DQ is absolutely legendary in Japan to the point where there are actual laws about when the games can be released. Sakura Wars isn't close to that yet.


Prediction:
BOTW Zelda - 45%(My rating for that one might be surprising tomorrow)

Noms:
T-Rex Runner x10

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Sakura Shinguji

Chance: 10%

She is part of what I consider to be the "big four" regarding a new SEGA rep which consists of Arle Nadja, Kazuma Kiryu, Axel Stone and herself. As said before the Sakura Wars series is quite big in Japan, but very obscure in the west. While I do believe that we will get a Japan pick, I feel that Nintendo and Sakurai want the character to at least have some decent base in the west. Arle Nadja and Kiryu have the same shtick that Sakura does being big Japanese appeal picks however SEGA is doing a huge western push with the Puyo Puyo and the Yakuza series, PPT2 is even going to release two days in the west before Japan! So I feel that it is unlikely Sakura would be chosen over Arle and Kiryu her biggest competitors, but who knows maybe we'll be surprised.

Want: 50%
I know little about the Sakura Wars series, but Sakura is a samurai and I would love to get a character that fights in an eastern sword style.

Prediction: Zelda(BOTW)- 16%

Nom: Concept: Bravely Default character x5

 

[SharkLord]

I HAVE (temporarily) RISEN FROM MY GRAVE

...Except I seem to suffer from this fun little thing called P R O C R A S T I N A T I O N, so I didn't dig deeper into the series and do the intro writeup I wanted to do.

So much for that.

For what it's worth I can understand where y'all are coming from.

It's predominantly a Japanese-centric franchise that only recently started to resurge and make it's way over to the West and as a result with most people on Smashboards being from the west it's easy for us to look past these things and have holes in our info due to the lack of apparent concrete info relating to it and it not being promenent in the places we're from. Our attachment and familiarity with these things also plays a role in how we make inferences.

However, this is why it's important we do more research on these things and listen to what other people have to say on them before making ill-informed statements, and this goes for anything, I saw this happen a lot before Hero was announced where people would write off the idea of a Dragon Quest rep either because they wanted someone like Sora more or because they weren't well-informed on the impact of Dragon Quest. Bubble arguments and echo chambers are a VERY dangerous trap we can fall into, so it's good to be mindful of these things when collecting information on things we aren't familiar with. Just wanted to preface that.

In the instance of Sakura Wars, this is a good video to watch if you want to be informed on it's history and impact:

I also recommend reading this blog post meant for educational purposes for information on Sakura Shinguji and her cultural impact in Japan as a character, it's a really good read especially if you're looking to learn more about Japanese cultural values: https://jp.learnoutlive.com/japanese-culture-sakura-shinguji/

I guess I can also contribute to the rating as well, have some music to listen to while I do it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvKh0hEoFp5T-f6gow7YQBDcEMD3AcT7i

Thank you for this well of information, good sir, but my inner procrastinator is screaming in agony since I now have to watch the hour-ish doucmentary on Sakura Wars on top of the hour-ish documentary on Falcom. Anyways from what I can get out that blog, Sakura would be hard countered by Pikachu, though I hear that's what Pikachu does to everyone...

On the topic of Falcom, either my sense of time is dead or you've been spiking Adol's meals, because last time I gave a rating I distinctly remember him as being much lower. I haven't been gone for that long, have I?

Well, there isn't much more to say here since I can't do the rating. Resurrection over, back to the grave I go.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakura Shinguji

Chance: 50%

I could see Sega getting another rep in the pass, and I could also see her as one of the big candidates. Sakura Wars has plenty of content to bring a robust challenger pack.

Want: 100%

I think Sakura Wars is a great series and I would love to see content from it. I also think she could bring an interesting samurai moveset to Smash. Her mech gameplay also intrigues me. She's definitely an excellent pick in my eyes.

 

[GoodGrief741]

On the topic of Falcom, either my sense of time is dead or you've been spiking Adol's meals, because last time I gave a rating I distinctly remember him as being much lower. I haven't been gone for that long, have I?

20 noms a day will usually do that to a character. Better start prepping that Adol write-up if you're planning on one.

 

[Blankiturayman]

HASHIRE!
Chance: 15%
Sakura Wars is indeed quite popular in Japan, to the point it spawned many sequels and even got a new entry fairly recently. While for many years it was mostly Japan exclusive (with the exclusion of "So Long, My Love") the newest entry was actually released worldwide, so you could say SEGA has an interest in expanding the series to be more known beyond Japan. Sakura herself is often used by SEGA in crossovers, having appeared in Project X Zone (twice) and Granblue Fantasy, and Star Ocean: Amamnesis just to name a few. They also prominently show Sakura Wars in anniversary artwork. So yeah, I would say Sakura has her merit.

Now, here's the hurdles: First of all, the easy one, other SEGA characters. As we know, Nintendo is making the selection, and there's many SEGA franchises they could be interested in. Puyo Puyo comes to mind first as it has been pretty close to Nintendo for a while, they're heavily promoting PPT2 and the series in general whenever they can to the point the unlocalized Puyo Puyo 1 was released on NSO in favor of their own localization from years ago, Kirby's Avalanche. Not only that, there's series such as Yakuza and SMT, which could make a very strong case in their own right. Sonic getting a second character could also be something with the sheer magnitude of the series. So yes, that's quite a hurdle, even if SEGA miraculously got more than one character in the pass. Then there's also the hurdle for every character, not many spots left, and general priorities Nintendo could be taking. That being said, I think Sakura's chances could grow more with time if SEGA keeps trying to expand the series as they're doing now.

Want: 65%
I'd like her, it's probably been notable from my posts but I generally like a lot of SEGA characters, the old ones, the new ones, the middle ones, you name it. I like the music even if it's unlikely we get some of the vocal songs (although Terry DID get some...) and of course the moveset would be nice, especially if they incorporate her mech in one way or another. Perhaps it wouldn't be "GET INTO TANK" like Jason that was rated yesterday since from what I can tell the Koubu fights more like she does already, but it'd be interesting to have a character that can change stances this way. It'd pretty much be samurai moves with a grounded projectile. (It's funny, Ouka Mushou looks a lot like Power Wave). I think they could add a few more less samurai-like moves if they go off of some appareances in crossovers. Either way it would be neat.

Nominations: Adol Christin x10
Predictions: 28% for Zelda. Not entirely sure here.

 

[Mr. MR]

Abstain

I don't think she has much of a chance. There's too much third party competition for the last slots that I can't see a playable character from Sakura Wars.

Noms: Impa x5
Predict BotW Zelda: 20%

 

[Calamitas]

More like Sakurai Wars if they actually make it in, am I right

Chance: 5%
Sorry, I don't really see it. From what I've been able to gather, Sakura Wars is a series that hasn't really managed to catch on in the West, with only two of its main games having released outside of Asia. We've already heard it from Sakurai himself that an outright lack of familiarity with characters in the West can kill their chances, so while this state of the series is no death sentence, it could easily be taken as a hindrance. While at the end of the day, popularity in Japan is probably still a far bigger factor in deciding on characters, it's really not like the rest of the world doesn't matter. And taking into consideration that from what I've read from other ratings, the overall influence the series had on gaming is actually not that noteworthy. . . yeah, not convinced.

Want: Abstain
Never played the series, not familiar with it. No rating.

Predicting BotW Zelda to get around 21.74%. While there'll be doubtlessly some people overrating her, I think it's also an outright guarantee that there'll be people heavily underrating her on the basis of "grr just cuz it's recent doesn't mean it'll happen", or something like that.

Nominating Concept: A Bravely Default character x10.

...ya'll realize that she's literally SEGA's other crossover royalty, right? Along with Joker? She gets into literally just about every gacha and mecha game, not to mention being in tons of SEGA crossovers of her own.

And? This is Smash Bros., a Nintendo game. SEGA putting the character into a lot of their games has no bearing on what Nintendo does. This is the same kind of logic that people use for KOS-MOS, and she's far from guaranteed as well.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

More like Sakurai Wars if they actually make it in, am I right

Chance: 5%
Sorry, I don't really see it. From what I've been able to gather, Sakura Wars is a series that hasn't really managed to catch on in the West, with only two of its main games having released outside of Asia. We've already heard it from Sakurai himself that an outright lack of familiarity with characters in the West can kill their chances, so while this state of the series is no death sentence, it could easily be taken as a hindrance. While at the end of the day, popularity in Japan is probably still a far bigger factor in deciding on characters, it's really not like the rest of the world doesn't matter. And taking into consideration that from what I've read from other ratings, the overall influence the series had on gaming is actually not that noteworthy. . . yeah, not convinced.

Want: Abstain
Never played the series, not familiar with it. No rating.

Predicting BotW Zelda to get around 21.74%. While there'll be doubtlessly some people overrating her, I think it's also an outright guarantee that there'll be people heavily underrating her on the basis of "grr just cuz it's recent doesn't mean it'll happen", or something like that.

Nominating Concept: A Bravely Default character x10.



And? This is Smash Bros., a Nintendo game. SEGA putting the character into a lot of their games has no bearing on what Nintendo does. This is the same kind of logic that people use for KOS-MOS, and she's far from guaranteed as well.

Yeah, it is a Nintendo game. A Nintendo game filled with third party characters with huge history in gaming, regardless of how big or small their franchises are in today's limelight.

So, without further ado.... Imperial Flower Division, Move Out!

Sakura Shinguji
Chance: 40% - I'm not going to pretend that her chances are ridiculously huge. I'm no blind fool. But to say she's a literal who shows are ridiculously unappreciative you guys can be of gaming history - and I think she's being slept on as a contender for sure. Let's start with her parent company - SEGA. They have a fantastic relationship with Nintendo with three characters in the game already. Let's look at them and see why they're here.
Sonic - A massive name in the game industry, and Mario's former greatest rival-turned-friend. Almost every mainline Sonic title's touched a Nintendo platform now, and some have even been exclusives.
Bayonetta - A much more niche title from subsidiary Platinum Games, but one Nintendo has a personal stake in, funding the sequel to the cult classic hack-and-slash. It's only natural Nintendo would want to promote her, as they are essentially her stepfather now.
Joker - The most popular protagonist from a long-running JRPG franchise that's popularity soared to new heights after it got it's own "Final Fantasy VII" in the form of Persona 5. Arguably the franchise's mascot in this day and age, from one of the most universally beloved titles of the past decade - and yet the franchise itself is still relatively niche, and is a spin-off no less.

2 our of 3 of our SEGA representatives are from niche franchises that don't have the same mainstream popularity as the iconic blue blur. Who's to say our fourth rep wouldn't? In fact, considering SEGA's only recently begun to push non-Sonic series into the mainstream, I'd say the only non-niche SEGA reps we could get are from the Sonic series itself.

As for Sakura - those who only read a Wikipedia page, you've got no leg to stand on. Just abstain instead of bull****ting. Sakura Wars may not have hit it off in the states, but there's a very obvious reason why - the first four games didn't come here. The only reason So Long, My Love did was because, being set in America, it would be more appealing to an American audience. The big anime boom hadn't happened until the fifth game's release, and even then it was only just beginning. Otaku culture is much more present outside of Japan nowadays (even though the Sakura Wars anime actually came to the states beforehand for some reason - perhaps the first game was meant to come to coincide with it?), and as a result, it was much more likely to succeed on it's sixth attempt - and it did relatively well for itself, all things considered. On top of that, why did the series get a sixth entry after a fifteen-year hiatus? Well, that's because the fans wanted it, of course. In a SEGA poll asking the Japanese audience what dead series they wanted to return, what series won? Sakura Taisen, of course. The franchise routinely outsold Sonic in Japan back in the day, even. It's clear that they want to push this franchise again, because they can see the appeal both to eastern and western otaku audiences. With Sakura Wars showing up in so many crossover ventures, it's clear that she's still one of SEGA's darlings - Granblue Fantasy, Star Ocean, Phantasy Star Online, Project x Zone, Super Robot Wars - the list goes on and on. Oh, and not to mention the battle system would go on to inspire many other grid-based tactical RPGs including Project x Zone itself - and I have a sneaking suspicion that Codename: S.T.E.A.M. owes some thanks to Sakura Wars, too.

So that comes to her competition - In my mind, it's one of four SEGA reps. Another Sonic character (likely Tails or Eggman), Kazuma Kiryu, Sakura, or Arle - but if you're going to say that Arle has a chance while sleeping on Sakura, you're just biased, kiddo. I'd stake my bet highest on Kiryu, if I had to guess. but Sakura's not too far behind.

Want: 100%
What can I say? I was the champion that started the movement for her on this site. We may be small, but we're very passionate about seeing her in not only Smash, but in the mainstream as the gaming icon she is. She belongs center stage, along with some of gaming's other greats. Not to mention we'd get some of the series' glorious music in Smash. A Smash Bros. remix of Geki! Teikoku Kagekidan with lyrics from both the original song and the New Sakura Wars version has me drooling at the mouth! Put ACE and Shimomura on that, stat! Besides, we need a samurai on the roster, and with Takamaru seemingly out of the running, Sakura's a great substitute. Plus she'd even be able to double as a mecha character either with her moveset or her Final Smash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

A Nintendo game filled with third party characters with huge history in gaming, regardless of how big or small their franchises are in today's limelight.

This sounds like you're talking about an irrelevant character that was hugely influential as some point, when it's actually the other way around.

Sakura Wars may not have hit it off in the states, but there's a very obvious reason why - the first four games didn't come here.

How do you explain the games that did come to the States doing poorly then? Methinks there's other reasons, like it's very reduced appeal and reliance on tropes and genres mostly familiar to Japanese audiences.

The big anime boom hadn't happened until the fifth game's release, and even then it was only just beginning. Otaku culture is much more present outside of Japan nowadays

Are we really going to pretend that anime games couldn't succeed overseas before 2005?

and it did relatively well for itself, all things considered.

It did? Can I get a source for that? No irony or sarcasm here, I haven't been able to find much in the way of sales data for the latest game.

With Sakura Wars showing up in so many crossover ventures, it's clear that she's still one of SEGA's darlings - Granblue Fantasy, Star Ocean, Phantasy Star Online, Project x Zone, Super Robot Wars - the list goes on and on.

Yeah but as others have pointed out, while Sega loves to put her in their projects, it's Nintendo's interest in the franchise that has to be demonstrated. And the latest game's PS exclusivity doesn't bode well for that.

Plus all of those crossovers were in mainly Japan-oriented franchises. Sakura's a no-show in Western-oriented products, like Sega's own racing crossover games. That infamous divide between the Segas is not to be ignored.

Oh, and not to mention the battle system would go on to inspire many other grid-based tactical RPGs including Project x Zone itself - and I have a sneaking suspicion that Codename: S.T.E.A.M. owes some thanks to Sakura Wars, too.

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

if you're going to say that Arle has a chance while sleeping on Sakura, you're just biased, kiddo.

Puyo Puyo got tons of global releases though, including big releases on the Switch, and has had more success in the West. It's also just a bigger series.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah, it is a Nintendo game. A Nintendo game filled with third party characters with huge history in gaming, regardless of how big or small their franchises are in today's limelight.

So, without further ado.... Imperial Flower Division, Move Out!

Sakura Shinguji
Chance: 40% - I'm not going to pretend that her chances are ridiculously huge. I'm no blind fool. But to say she's a literal who shows are ridiculously unappreciative you guys can be of gaming history - and I think she's being slept on as a contender for sure. Let's start with her parent company - SEGA. They have a fantastic relationship with Nintendo with three characters in the game already. Let's look at them and see why they're here.
Sonic - A massive name in the game industry, and Mario's former greatest rival-turned-friend. Almost every mainline Sonic title's touched a Nintendo platform now, and some have even been exclusives.
Bayonetta - A much more niche title from subsidiary Platinum Games, but one Nintendo has a personal stake in, funding the sequel to the cult classic hack-and-slash. It's only natural Nintendo would want to promote her, as they are essentially her stepfather now.
Joker - The most popular protagonist from a long-running JRPG franchise that's popularity soared to new heights after it got it's own "Final Fantasy VII" in the form of Persona 5. Arguably the franchise's mascot in this day and age, from one of the most universally beloved titles of the past decade - and yet the franchise itself is still relatively niche, and is a spin-off no less.

2 our of 3 of our SEGA representatives are from niche franchises that don't have the same mainstream popularity as the iconic blue blur. Who's to say our fourth rep wouldn't? In fact, considering SEGA's only recently begun to push non-Sonic series into the mainstream, I'd say the only non-niche SEGA reps we could get are from the Sonic series itself.

As for Sakura - those who only read a Wikipedia page, you've got no leg to stand on. Just abstain instead of bull****ting. Sakura Wars may not have hit it off in the states, but there's a very obvious reason why - the first four games didn't come here. The only reason So Long, My Love did was because, being set in America, it would be more appealing to an American audience. The big anime boom hadn't happened until the fifth game's release, and even then it was only just beginning. Otaku culture is much more present outside of Japan nowadays (even though the Sakura Wars anime actually came to the states beforehand for some reason - perhaps the first game was meant to come to coincide with it?), and as a result, it was much more likely to succeed on it's sixth attempt - and it did relatively well for itself, all things considered. On top of that, why did the series get a sixth entry after a fifteen-year hiatus? Well, that's because the fans wanted it, of course. In a SEGA poll asking the Japanese audience what dead series they wanted to return, what series won? Sakura Taisen, of course. The franchise routinely outsold Sonic in Japan back in the day, even. It's clear that they want to push this franchise again, because they can see the appeal both to eastern and western otaku audiences. With Sakura Wars showing up in so many crossover ventures, it's clear that she's still one of SEGA's darlings - Granblue Fantasy, Star Ocean, Phantasy Star Online, Project x Zone, Super Robot Wars - the list goes on and on. Oh, and not to mention the battle system would go on to inspire many other grid-based tactical RPGs including Project x Zone itself - and I have a sneaking suspicion that Codename: S.T.E.A.M. owes some thanks to Sakura Wars, too.

So that comes to her competition - In my mind, it's one of four SEGA reps. Another Sonic character (likely Tails or Eggman), Kazuma Kiryu, Sakura, or Arle - but if you're going to say that Arle has a chance while sleeping on Sakura, you're just biased, kiddo. I'd stake my bet highest on Kiryu, if I had to guess. but Sakura's not too far behind.

Want: 100%
What can I say? I was the champion that started the movement for her on this site. We may be small, but we're very passionate about seeing her in not only Smash, but in the mainstream as the gaming icon she is. She belongs center stage, along with some of gaming's other greats. Not to mention we'd get some of the series' glorious music in Smash. A Smash Bros. remix of Geki! Teikoku Kagekidan with lyrics from both the original song and the New Sakura Wars version has me drooling at the mouth! Put ACE and Shimomura on that, stat! Besides, we need a samurai on the roster, and with Takamaru seemingly out of the running, Sakura's a great substitute. Plus she'd even be able to double as a mecha character either with her moveset or her Final Smash.

Okay, I know this is kinda off-topic, but was one of the franchises on that poll Billy Hatcher? Because if it was and nobody voted for it, I'll be VERY disappointed...

Although now I'm curious about the Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. thing. Is that true, or just a theory?

 

[SharkLord]

Okay, I know this is kinda off-topic, but was one of the franchises on that poll Billy Hatcher? Because if it was and nobody voted for it, I'll be VERY disappointed...

Although now I'm curious about the Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. thing. Is that true, or just a theory?

I'm not qualified to give a full answer, but seeing as they're both steampunk-themed SRPGs, I can at least see some similarities.

 

[NintenZ]

This sounds like you're talking about an irrelevant character that was hugely influential as some point, when it's actually the other way around.

How do you explain the games that did come to the States doing poorly then? Methinks there's other reasons, like it's very reduced appeal and reliance on tropes and genres mostly familiar to Japanese audiences.

Are we really going to pretend that anime games couldn't succeed overseas before 2005?

It did? Can I get a source for that? No irony or sarcasm here, I haven't been able to find much in the way of sales data for the latest game.

Yeah but as others have pointed out, while Sega loves to put her in their projects, it's Nintendo's interest in the franchise that has to be demonstrated. And the latest game's PS exclusivity doesn't bode well for that.

Plus all of those crossovers were in mainly Japan-oriented franchises. Sakura's a no-show in Western-oriented products, like Sega's own racing crossover games. That infamous divide between the Segas is not to be ignored.

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Puyo Puyo got tons of global releases though, including big releases on the Switch, and has had more success in the West. It's also just a bigger series.

Dude can you at least give the guy breathing room to let him voice what he's saying before acting confrontational?

I could've easily broke apart your initial post which had various pieces of misinformation in it but I refrained from doing that because I wanted to let you say what you needed to even if I didn't agree with it, we can have civil disagreements and try and act reasonable with each other as Pheonix displayed last night.

Edit: Nvm wasn't informed well enough on the thread's rules, goes to show how inactive I am lmfao.

 

[amageish]

Okay, I know this is kinda off-topic, but was one of the franchises on that poll Billy Hatcher? Because if it was and nobody voted for it, I'll be VERY disappointed...

I have bad news for you... though also it could just be that this site only displayed the top results and Billy was in 21st place.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Dude can you at least give the guy breathing room to let him voice what he's saying before acting confrontational?

I could've easily broke apart your initial post which had various pieces of misinformation in it but I refrained from doing that because I wanted to let you say what you needed to even if I didn't agree with it, we can have civil disagreements and try and act reasonable with each other as Pheonix displayed last night.

This is a debate thread. If I see arguments I consider flawed I'll point them out or ask for proof. You can do likewise with my post if you so please. I don't think it's uncivil to express disagreement.

 

[SharkLord]

I have bad news for you... though also it could just be that this site only displayed the top results and Billy was in 21st place.

I'm still wheezing over how the favorite character is Segata Sanshiro. I'll bet the Sega players of Japan still have those ads ingrained in their mind.

You must play Sega Saturn

THIS IS A THREAT

 

[NintenZ]

This is a debate thread. If I see arguments I consider flawed I'll point them out or ask for proof. You can do likewise with my post if you so please. I don't think it's uncivil to express disagreement.

I guess that's fair in a sense, wasn't really thinking this was that kind of thread since the general one is more suited for that I've found lol

 

[chocolatejr9]

I have bad news for you... though also it could just be that this site only displayed the top results and Billy was in 21st place.

Me:

Also, pour one out for Jet Set Radio. Those guys got wrecked by Sakura Wars, and nobody cares about number 2 anymore...

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Okay, I know this is kinda off-topic, but was one of the franchises on that poll Billy Hatcher? Because if it was and nobody voted for it, I'll be VERY disappointed...

Although now I'm curious about the Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. thing. Is that true, or just a theory?

That's just a theory of mine.

Nope, not saying the line.

This sounds like you're talking about an irrelevant character that was hugely influential as some point, when it's actually the other way around.

How do you explain the games that did come to the States doing poorly then? Methinks there's other reasons, like it's very reduced appeal and reliance on tropes and genres mostly familiar to Japanese audiences.

Are we really going to pretend that anime games couldn't succeed overseas before 2005?

It did? Can I get a source for that? No irony or sarcasm here, I haven't been able to find much in the way of sales data for the latest game.

Yeah but as others have pointed out, while Sega loves to put her in their projects, it's Nintendo's interest in the franchise that has to be demonstrated. And the latest game's PS exclusivity doesn't bode well for that.

Plus all of those crossovers were in mainly Japan-oriented franchises. Sakura's a no-show in Western-oriented products, like Sega's own racing crossover games. That infamous divide between the Segas is not to be ignored.

That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Puyo Puyo got tons of global releases though, including big releases on the Switch, and has had more success in the West. It's also just a bigger series.

One game did poorly in the states. Part of the blame falls on SEGA for not marketing it, but let's be real here - non-Shonen anime-style titles didn't have the biggest appeal over here prior to around 2005.

Even so, regarding Nintendo vs. SEGA, yes, Nintendo has to display interest in the franchise for Smash purposes, but just because the franchise's most recent outting was a PS5 exclusive doesn't actually mean anything. P5 is a PlayStation exclusive, Metal Gear Solid V has spirits, and FFVII hadn't been on a Nintendo system when Cloud was revealed.

SEGA is still a Japanese company first and foremost. Yes, their may be some divide, but iirc it was actually confirmed that Sakura was considered for All Stars Racing Transformed but scrapped because Vyse already did the steampunk thing.

As for sales numbers, the game only came out about six months ago, but I recall they're being a lot of hype around it, and PS was very adamant about promoting it.

 

[SharkLord]

Me:

Also, pour one out for Jet Set Radio. Those guys got wrecked by Sakura Wars, and nobody cares about number 2 anymore...

Sakura Wars just crushed everyone in that poll. Though, in all fairness there aren't many people who wouldn't be crushed if a mini-mecha was dropped on them.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Calcs

Echo: Xion
0.10% Chance - 50.29% Want
Winner of predictions was Lyncario with a near-exact 0.14%. That nets you 10 extra noms!
Xion's only the second Echo we've rated, but with these scores she's still the most likely and most wanted one of the pair. Though that won't spare her from her spot in the bottom 5 chance scores ever.

Monster Hunter
40.83% Chance - 53.24% Want
First time we rated them they got 31.06% chance and 46.21% want. Second time they got 12.21% chance and 31.88% want. Last time they got 10.75% chance and 37.33% want. I doubt anyone needs an explanation for why both their scores are at all-time highs, do I?
Winner of predictions was Lyncario again, with 40.70%

Lu Bu
9.45% Chance - 47.19% Want
Winners of predictions were Mr. MR L Lionfranky and amageish with a precise 10.00%

Concept: Deltarune content
9.76% Chance - 61.50% Want
Winner of predictions was amageish with another 10.00%

Billy Hatcher
0.85% Chance - 27.73% Want
Winner of predictions was Inue Houji by virtue of being the lowest prediction, with 0.50%

Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA
4.69% Chance - 58.89% Want
Winner of predictions was Sari with 4.50%

Your extra noms, folks

3BitSaurus 5
amageish 10
Artix 15
Awakining 5
Blankiturayman 10
DaUsername 97
Delzethin 5
GoodGrief741 55
Icedragonadam 5
Inue Houji 5
KingofPhantoms 5
L Lionfranky 5
Lyncario 15
Mr. MR 5
NintenRob 55
Nemuresu 10
Ninjaed 20
Perkilator 5
Sari 5
SKX31 5
Troykv 15
waddledeeonredyoshi 39
WeirdChillFever 10
Wunderwaft 5

 

[Sid-cada]

Sakura Shinguji

Chance - 2.5% - I view her as being in the same vein as Joker. A semi-notable RPG series that, while not quite a Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, still has made a notable mark on the Genre. While there is some notable things in her favor, ultimately I still consider Joker to be a lucky one, and Sakura probably will have to be luckier still. Right now, Sega seems more interested in getting Puyo Puyo out there for the Switch, so I see that getting priority. I'd think they'd pick the games that are already on the console that they would want to promote when one on the console already exists.

Want - 50% - Eh, never enjoyed an RPG enough to completion, so I'm mostly neutral. A mech has admittedly been one of my wants for Smash, though she hasn't been a character I've rooted for, so I think execution will tell me if I'll like her or not.


Nominations

Arle Nadja X5

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Abstaining from both chance and want ratings. I don't know a single thing about this franchise, besides that it's been fairly popular game and subject among gaming since at least last year or so.

Nominations: Tetra x10

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Sakura

1% Chance

TBH, I do not buy it. I wanted to make sure that I was not too uneducated on the series, the max of my previous knowledge was old Nintendo Power pieces on Sakura Wars, So Long My Love. So I did my hw on her, read the arguments...and I do not buy it. The series is quite niche, even when compared to Persona. The franchise might have its fans, but the fact it has struggled to bounce out of Japan is a bad sign. Then you have to take into account Sega's other properties as competition. This already is a bad sign for her, but then you have the fact that we potentially have only four spots left. Throw it all together and to me, it seems like an incredibly unlikely outcome.

0% Want

I have absolutely zero attachment to this character. Never played a Sakura Wars game. Why would I want someone if I have no interest in playing their games? The Sakura Wars games do not look appealing to me tbh. However, probably the biggest death knell for me is the fact that we only have limited spots left potentially. I would not want Sakura over many characters that I would find even passably interesting. I would genuinely rather have a Gen 8 Pokemon.

Day over, rate Zelda (BotW) and predict The Stretchers.


In other news, the RTC tournament is deciding on the date tonight. Please fill out the forum here. The prizes are noms too...

 

[DanganZilla5]

BOTW Zelda

Chance: 50%

Yep, I'm going there. I firmly believe that we will get another Byleth in this pass and what game looks like it might be a 2021 release? BOTW 2. And not only that, but we have Age of Calamity coming very soon so this is a character that is ripe for getting shilled. Why am I so confident we will get another shill pick? Well let's look at Smash 4's DLC and the first Fighters Pass and see how those ended. Smash 4 DLC ended with Corrin and Bayonetta. Corrin was straight up a shill pick, no doubt about it as Fates didn't even release in the west yet. As for Bayonetta, I won't kick this dead horse much more than it already has been but it's hard to believe that Bayonetta won the ballot overall. Granted they mentioned "among realizable characters" which is kind of vague but I can't help but notice that the second game which was exclusive on Wii U was released the year before she was announced. Sounds very suspicious doesn't it? As for the first Fighters Pass, it ended with Byleth. The critical thing I want to point out with Byleth is that he was decided while Three Houses was still in development. We know that Sakurai played an early build of Three Houses to learn the character so the same thing could happen with BOTW 2 where Sakurai can play it early to learn more about this version of Zelda. I also just remembered that Sakurai did mention that he played BOTW early to incorporate elements of it in Link's moveset.

Another factor that makes me fixated on Zelda is that in both Byleth and Min Min's presentations, Sakurai randomly brought up Zelda and her design for no apparent reason. It could just mean nothing, but I just have a gut feeling that he might be warning us that a new version of Zelda will appear in this game.

Now I know what you all are thinking, if Nintendo really wanted a shill pick they also have other options like Sylux or Impa and you do have a point. But think about this: The first BOTW was a major success and the hype around BOTW 2 is very noticeable so this game will be a big deal for Nintendo. For Impa, it's a real possibility she will be picked instead, especially if Sakurai is allowed the freedom to choose any of the BOTW 2 characters as it's likely he hears the demand for a unique Zelda rep. I will also admit that BOTW Zelda's chances will largely depend on if she is playable in BOTW 2 and has an interesting enough moveset to work with. I do not give out 50s often because it feels lazy and safe, but it represents my feelings very well.

I did not want to be this negative, but looking at precedence, there is a pattern forming. Going back to Corrin and Byleth, again their games were being developed while they were chosen for Smash, hence why they were placed at the end of a DLC cycle. Smash rosters always seem to end with disappointing/underwhelming picks. This is even true for the base roster when you look at Smash 4 (Bowser Jr and Duck Hunt) and Ultimate (Incineroar). It's a very consistent pattern and I don't see it getting broken with this pass. Overall, there is a reason why I chose BOTW 2 Zelda as one of my 4 predictions for this pass. If my worse case scenario happened at the end of the last pass, then it might happen again for this pass.

Want: 0%

Nintendo, if you want to shill BOTW 2, that is fine. But please for the love of Arceus choose someone that isn't a part of the main three characters. Even as a non-Zelda fan, I would be more open to Impa as she has made several appearances throughout the series so she does make a lot of sense to be the next Zelda rep. Heck, I would take something like Calamity Ganon at this point (as Ganondorf is in need of a reworked moveset anyways). I do not want another Zelda as that would be boring and it would also lower my confidence for any future unique Zelda reps.

Prediction: The Stretchers - 1%

Noms: Arthur x10

 

[Perkilator]

Abstain.

The Strechers: 1%

Noms:
Crazy Dave x5

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Zelda 3: A Link to the Past

Chance: 1% The big basis of this is BotW2, a game which by all means, was never meant to be out soon. We know for a fact Sakurai doesn't put characters in consideration if their games are still stuck in development for a long time so I fail to see what makes BotW Zelda special enough to bypass this. BotW2's teaser was done in the same fashion as MP4's, choosing to say 'now in development' instead of an estimated time period, showing that they were at best, very early on in production. The other core reason is Age of Calamity, which fits in with the timing as hey, it's out in a month, but at the same time, it's a spin off and spin offs have never impacted Smash in any meaningful way, I don't see that changing any time soon

Want: 0% OH BOY ANOTHER REPEAT OF A CHARACTER ALREADY IN! I dislike repeats in fighting games and while BotW Zelda would teeeeechnically be a different character with a unique moveset... We already have two of those and I don't feel comfortable paying money for something I already have on the base game. It's the same reason I'd dislike Paper Mario, the same reason I disliked Djeeta in Granblue, it's the same reason I dislike all the Gokus in DBFZ and I'd use the same reasoning if we got Dante, a character I adore, and we were speculating on 'Dante but with his DMCV weapons'. Zelda's long overdue for a character, but Zelda deserves far better than the same characters copied and pasted over and over.

Miriam x10


Also who the hell are the Stretchers

 

[Sari]

Since neither Age of Calamity nor the BotW sequel are out yet, I'll post the BotW 2 trailer as well as a few Breath of the Wild tunes that aren't in Smash:

Spoiler: BotW Music Post

Also who the hell are the Stretchers

These guys.

 

[fogbadge]

the zelda who kidnapped ganon

chances: 10% i doubt this will happen. now while uts perfectly believable that nintendo would suggest a character from any of the big switch titles, including BoW, AoC and BotW2, but my instinct is that sakurai thinks the link we have would do the trick. now sakurai explained why he didnt use this zelda in the base game and the things that would chance his mind are AoC and the hypothetical idea that shes playable in BotW2, now AoC is being made by KT so i dont sakurai would get to see behind the scenes and the other one is just a theory. i think at best we can expect link, zelda and ganondorf to be uniform again in the next smash. in short i feel everything going for her is largely hypthetical and here say.

want: 100% well i love the zelda seres. be she an echo, semi-clone or unique character id be happy to have her. between her magic and the ancient technology she studies she could have a great new moveset or and interesting variation on zelda's current one. though i admit i think i would prefer some one from outside the main trio but id be ok with any zelda character. but like i said im predicting we'll just get her as the main zelda with the usual moveset next time around. alas smash is a game with many missed opportunities.

nominate chibi-robo x5 and qbby x5

 

[Lionfranky]

BOTW Zelda

Chance: 35%
Let's face it. BOTW has been massive hit. Both critically and financially. So, it isn't too far-fetched to think this can happen. We saw how Byleth got in. Despite being in early development, it may be possible for Sakurai to get hand on early access of BOTW2. Still, this doesn't mean it's lock. Sakurai may share the same sentiment with rest of us who feel this is not a good pick for number of reasons. Nintendo may bring candidates, but Sakurai said that he still has right to reject according to Steve presentation.

Want: 0%
This is DLC we are talking about. I don't want clone to take spot. Say what you can about Paper Mario. At least, he has way more unique and distinct style to pull. I can't say the same for this Zelda. If they really have to go for Zelda rep, why not new character? And this is supposed to be the last dlc. This would be slap in the face.

Nom: Neptune x 15

 

[BowserKing]

Zelda (Breath of the Wild)

Chance: 0 to 15%. The 0% is because Sakurai said that this Zelda is more into reasearch then fighting, hence why the Zelda from Link Between Worlds was chosen. The 15% is because of the new Breath of the Wild games coming soon or in the close future. Besides that, there’s are several other Legend of Zelda characters with potential to join the fight as well.

Want: 55%. While I prefer it if someone else like Midna, Skull Kid, Urbosa or Vaati becomes the next Legend of Zelda fighter, and I also prefer it if she were an alternate costume, she would be fun to play as either way. Overall, she would be an interesting choice, but I think’s it’s best is she were an alternate costume.

Prediction: Stretchers (5%)

Noms: 5 for Boss: Rayquaza

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Zelda TWO!!!
Chance: 10%
It just feels really weird to have Sakurai reject BotW Zelda in favor of some other incarnation only to add BotW Zelda in anyway through DLC, despite the other Zelda still being there. I just can't imagine him just changing his mind on that even with Age of Calamity and BotW 2 coming. Nintendo might think differently but Sakurai can still say no to Botw Zelda like he did before. I have doubts a Warriors game would affect much of anything since that's technically still a spin-off and creates movesets for about every major character. BotW 2 is the big factor here and it's still a matter of speculation on if Zelda actually gets her playable role there and if the timing lines up for FP2. After all, Volume 2 was likely finalized last year and we still don't know when the game is supposed to release.

Want: 1%
Even as a guy not too huge on the franchise, Zelda deserves another character. But oh boy, this would just scream "We are actively avoiding adding any non-triforce trio Zelda characters" and I'm not much of a fan of that. Not much against this incarnation of Zelda but there are much better options like, I don't know, any of the champions?! Even Kass would be a more interesting pick. And if we have to pick someone from the main three, BotW Ganon(dorf) would be a better option as an opportunity to represent him better than the one we already have. BotW Zelda just would be lame in comparison. As a first-party, she's not far above the likes of another FE character or a Gen 8 Pokemon for me.

Stretchers: 1.12%
The Knight x10

 

[Sari]

Zelda (BotW Universe)

Chance: 5%
The biggest drawback to her chances is that we already have a ton of content from BotW in Smash. This includes:

• Link's new design and moveset
• An entire stage
• 5 songs
• Spirits that cover just about all of the major characters
• 3 Mii Costumes, one of which is a bonus for those who bought Fighters Pass 2.

I could maybe forget about some these since most of the content was from the base game, however the Ancient Armor Mii Costume is for those who purchased Fighters Pass 2. I feel if we were getting a new Zelda character in this pass then they would’ve released that costume alongside the fighter. The small amount of Xenoblade 2 content in the base game even now gives me very slight doubts of Rex's chances, so for BotW to have even more base game content as well as a very recent Mii Costume makes me think this most likely won't happen. Yes I know that both AoC and BotW2 would definitely have more than enough content to supplement a fighter. However when 1 of the 15 new stages in Ultimate is already from BotW then I'm not so sure if Sakurai would be too eager to add what would most likely be a similar stage.

Another issue is competition with other BotW characters. Urbosa is definitely one of the most popular BotW-era characters and I could honestly see her getting into Smash over Zelda in a similar manner to Min Min. Impa is another possible candidate since while I doubt they would add a character just to promote AoC, she has always been a popular Zelda request. Sakurai could kill two birds with one stone by adding Impa into Smash with her AoC design. And of course Impa also benefits from being a completely unique character, whereas BotW Zelda would be the third iteration of Zelda and another addition to the Triforce trio in Smash.

Things aren't all bad for BotW Zelda though as there is one shining ray of hope for her: the BotW sequel. We don't know how BotW2 is doing in terms of development but seeing as how it'll take place in the same map as BotW and that we got a full-on animated trailer showing a part of the story I don't think it'll release too far into the future. I can't imagine it being in a worse spot than Metroid Prime 4 so I'm expecting a 2021/early 2022 release date which would fall right in line with end of the pass. While talking about the addition of Corrin in SSB4, Sakurai said that they were going to add a character from a game that had recently released (or was just about to). With how we got both Corrin and Byleth as obvious promotional picks, I feel like a similar thing will happen in this pass specifically towards the end of it with Zelda being one of the candidates. But of course that could just be a Fire Emblem thing and the Zelda series has never really been a promotional-worthy type of series as seen with there not being a true new Zelda character since Melee.

In the end I think it really depends if Nintendo wants to heavily promote BotW2. If Zelda ends up being a true playable character in BotW2 then I think this will be a bit more likely (though even then I’d bring the score up to like 10% at most). If she isn’t playable and is just on the sidelines like in the first game then yeah this definitely won’t happen.

Want: 90%
It's crazy to think that we still don't have a mainline Zelda game where you can truly play as Zelda throughout a majority of the game. Hyrule Warriors is a spin-off series, the phantom armor segments in Spirit Tracks don't really count, and the less said of Wand of Gamelon the better. I think we are long overdue for a true playable Zelda which is why I hope she takes on a much bigger role in the BotW sequel.

I'll admit that the Zelda series is probably more deserving of a more unique character like Impa or Midna. However the BotW iteration of Zelda is slowly becoming my favorite version of the character. She can definitely be a unique and fun fighter by utilizing the Champion abilities, rune powers, and whatever else they add to her arsenal in BotW2. Also I loved the world of BotW so the more content from those games the better.

-----

The Stretchers chance prediction: 0.70%

Nominations:
Concept: The remaining SSB4 DLC Mii Costumes return (or get a deluxe enhancement) x10

This is DLC we are talking about. I don't want clone to take spot.

While I don't know exactly how BotW Zelda would play, I can guarantee you that she wouldn't play like the original Zelda at all. This was even the reason she didn't appear in the base game over the usual Zelda, since Sakurai said they wouldn't play like each other at all.

 

[Blankiturayman]

What if Zelda... but with short hair? And runes?

Chance: 5%
First things first, BotW got a costume for FP2 already. I know, it's just armor essentially not directly related to any character in the game, but I think it'd be odd that if they had decided to add a BotW character for FP2 they'd put a BotW armor as the pass bonus instead of practically any other character choice they could've made that wasn't chosen for FP2 already.

To add: There's already lots of BotW content proper in the game, Link himself is styled after it, there's a fully fledged stage, music, and even spirits. This is more than what ARMS had, XC2 has, or even MH has since that has music tracks, a boss arena, and a boss/AT. Even if we were to get a "promo" character for BotW2, or maybe even AoC, I don't think it'd have to be Zelda. It could very well be Impa or one of the Champions.

So yeah, if you round this all up, I find it fairly unlikely. That being said it still could happen, most likely because promotion, and Zelda does seem to be prominent in BotW2 from the very little we've seen.

Want: 1%
I really like the Zelda series, but this is precisely why I'd want someone new instead of another character variant of the triforce trio. There's so many nice choices, many of them already present in Smash in some form. Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Midna, Vaati, maybe even Agahnim or Ganon (beast) if you wanna remain to the triforce users, or if you want another Zelda, Tetra would be really nice, even the Ghost Zelda from ST, though sadly those likely wouldn't happen.

Even if you wanted to remain to BotW, there's any of the Champions. It's more my opinion, but I don't like BotW's Zelda much. So that adds to that alongside me preferring other characters from the series. Plus, we've seen little of her in BotW2 or the game in general. Nothing is known of what she does/is capable of in BotW2, all you could go from is BotW, where she seems to be able to use light magic mainly like many Zeldas before her, including the one in Smash already. They could give her the sheikah slate for some more moves that Link doesn't get, Magnesis, Cryonis, etc. and if they do that I think it could be alright, but still. I'd really prefer another Zelda character and that brings my rating way lower.

Nominations: Adol Christin x10
Prediction: 0.5% for Stretchers.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think there's a decent chance we could get a BotW 2 character as one of those "promotional characters from a recent game" like Corrin and Byleth, but I don't think it'd be Zelda herself. We might get her design as the base for the Zelda in the next Smash game, but just like BOTW Link, she probably won't become her own character.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Girls gone wild

Chance: 38%
I could see this. It's a really strong possibility. Breath of the Wild is one of Nintendo's biggest and most important modern titles, and they're capitalizing. A sequel and a prequel, one coming just next month and the other probably next year. That matches perfectly with FPV2's release schedule, to the point where Zelda could reasonably be in any spot in the Pass and still make sense from a marketing perspective. I agree with DanganZilla5 that we're probably getting a promotional character, even if I'm not 100% it'll be for BotW2 (there's gotta be other Nintendo games we don't know of). Add to that the constant demand from fans that Zelda get a new character, and the anniversary next year, and the stars are aligning. A couple of questions remain however: Zelda's role in BotW2, and whether she'll be playable, an important NPC, or once again the damsel to rescue. Screentime imo is crucial here. Also, competition. I don't think the Champions will return in as major a capacity as in the other two games, and Impa's old now, but as far as BotW reps they're contenders. There's also the dehydrated corpse that might be Ganondorf's first appearance since Twilight Princess, which would be a pretty big deal, even if it would be offset by Zelda's everpresent status. But, with all that said, I think she's definitely one to keep an eye on.

Want: 75%
I'm torn because I really want non-Triforce wielders in Smash, and I really want proof they can happen. So getting a third Zelda wouldn't be ideal in that regard. But at the same time, I love BotW Zelda's design. She got robbed, as much as I love the design they went with, this is one of the all-time greats, an amazing reinvention of Zelda much like the Champion Tunic was of Link. Add to that the fact that BotW is imo the best game ever made, and Age of Calamity and BotW2 hype, and yeah, I'd be excited for her. I don't know what role she'll have in BotW2 but if AoC is any indication of her skillset, a moveset would be dope. I expected Link to get a moveset overhaul to rep BotW and he didn't so Zelda would be the ideal way to represent Sheikah Slate powers and maybe even the Champions' gifts. Overall this is a good but not great outcome in my book. As shill picks go we've done much worse.

I don't want clone to take spot.

I really doubt BotW Zelda would be a clone. She can't pull off many of Zelda's moves without the dress. Hell, if she could be a clone, then we probably would've had her design as Zelda's instead of ALttP's.

Noms: Scorpion x10
Stretchers prediction: 3.41%