Social Radiant Hero of Legend: Ike Thread

[Mario766]

Ugh that's dumb.

In fact, the hitbox detection on that move's dumb too. Why can't I just not swing the sword man? I'm swinging at a Sheik's toe that's already moved on to the other end of the stage.

There's very few situations in Smash 4/Ultimate where you wouldn't want to swing the sword if you're using QD anyways, this isn't PM.

For better or worse.

 

[Arrei]

He's probably referring more to all those cases where the sword will swing and hit nothing, because the trigger box has deadzones to the top and bottom that don't match the attack hitbox. In every instance that occurs, Ike would have been better off detecting nothing and continuing to travel instead of dropping himself right in front of his opponent gift-wrapped and ready for punishing.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Welp, here's to another few years of having no diagonal recovery...haa..haa...

 

[Idon]

Welp, here's to another few years of having no diagonal recovery...haa..haa...

Please give diagonal aether custom as his default sakurai. Please and thank you.

 

[Flon]

Just a few bits of ramble from me.

Here's some off-screen Ike footage from Rage Summer. It does make up throw seem quite a bit more promising. One of them didn't look 100% true, but Link was around 30% and I'm sure down-throw would've been better suited at that point. I'm sure up-throw will still have a lot of use around mid percent.

Up-aerial weakens during its last few frames, but that may be useful combined with its minimal landing. Like in this video (1:48), I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up having some follow-ups.

From all the footage around, I believe neutral-aerial may have a tipper sweetspot that does 7.5%. Otherwise it's around 6.3% with the late hitboxes going even lower to the ~5% range. They've certainly compensated the knockback, but I wonder to what extent.

I'm happy they've given forward tilt a damage increase to around 13.5%. In a 1v1 setting this move does 17% fresh with all bonuses added.

Lastly, I'm having a tough time trying to figure out back-aerial's damage. I've seen it deal anywhere from a base of 12% to 14% seemingly unstaled. It's quite confusing unless they've added a sourspot or there's some strange damage penalities going on in the demo.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Interestingly about Jason Adkins, since Brawl, his Ike voice has changed in every other appearance. I feel if he came back to voice new voice clips for Ike's Smash Ultimate appearance, his voice would sound different yet again if of course they didn't recycle the same voice clips over again like they've done with Marth's Japanese VA from Melee up until this point.

Code Name Steam is my least favorite Jason Adkins role, it sounds a bit jarring with Ike's appearance. In fact some people thought it was a different actor entirely. Though I did like how he did Ike in Fire Emblem Fates. There's just a certain uniqueness with the whispery raspy-ness of it all that I find myself liking the sound of.

Oh also I should do the same and put up some voice refs of Jason Adkins for the titles I mentioned.


Code Name Steam:

Fire Emblem Fates:

@ Jedisupersonic

I do feel Jason Adkins likely got replaced for having a busy schedule and not being able to be as freely available, since they seemed to drag him back for Ike's other game appearances lol. He's still active, just in live action vs voice work (Ike was the only voice he did). Getting replaced in Heroes was what made me think Greg Chun would likely replace Smash as well, since if anything Smash always tends to update the voices if the character has received a voice update since then.

I've always liked the "Shouldn't have been in my way..." in Fates.

 

[Mario766]

Ignore any and all videos with items when talking damage percents and combos.

N-air does 9% fresh with 1.2x multiplier.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I've always liked the "Shouldn't have been in my way..." in Fates.

Probably the best post-combat line in the entirety of Fates.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I haven't done much Ike talk, but lately I've been trying to improve his Smash Wii U moveset. This probably means nothing for Smash Ultimate, but it'll basically be my attempt to fix up the attack flaws that Ike suffers from; examples include improving the KO potency for Ike's slower attacks.

 

[Idon]

I haven't done much Ike talk, but lately I've been trying to improve his Smash Wii U moveset. This probably means nothing for Smash Ultimate, but it'll basically be my attempt to fix up the attack flaws that Ike suffers from; examples include improving the KO potency for Ike's slower attacks.

Ike doesn't really need that much more KO power. He already hits like a truck. Issue is, that truck moves at 2 mph.

 

[Tri Knight]

I think that's a fair trade though. Ike has decent speed and range on the rest of his kit that can help contribute to killing. I'm sure Ikes get more KO's off of F-air than F-smash. And Ive always loved his F-Tilt especially. His smash attacks are just high risk, high reward moves in that sense.

 

[Mario766]

I think this could be taken back to the Smash 4 section, not Ultimate.

 

[san.]

Perhaps, though Ike received quite a few changes in this game. I suggest copying known smash ultimate changes: https://smashboards.com/threads/e3-build-information-changes-and-damage-values-ike.455509/

The only problematic smash Ike has is dsmash, that is too weak and has a ton of cooldown. Usmash and fsmash are mediocre and would appreciate better startup and cooldown as well. If you want to continue further, I suggest continuing the topic in the Smash for Wii U forums.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ike doesn't really need that much more KO power. He already hits like a truck. Issue is, that truck moves at 2 mph.

The problem is that when compared to the other heavy-hitters, Ike's offense feels underwhelming for a fighter who suffers from a good amount of start-up lag with his strongest attacks. For starters, Bowser's f-smash hits AND KOs sooner than Ike's f-smash.

The only problematic smash Ike has is dsmash, that is too weak and has a ton of cooldown. Usmash and fsmash are mediocre and would appreciate better startup and cooldown as well. If you want to continue further, I suggest continuing the topic in the Smash for Wii U forums.

It's a shame that that place has started to become a ghost town. Ike's Smash 3DS / Wii U forum hasn't received any new posts since early February 2018.

 

[Idon]

The problem is that when compared to the other heavy-hitters, Ike's offense feels underwhelming for a fighter who suffers from a good amount of start-up lag with his strongest attacks. For starters, Bowser's f-smash hits AND KOs sooner than Ike's f-smash.



It's a shame that that place has started to become a ghost town. Ike's Smash 3DS / Wii U forum hasn't received any new posts since early February 2018.

I'm of the mindset that instead of buffing a gimmick move that hardly ever works to begin with, a more sensible idea would be to make sure most aspects of Ike are at least decent.

Ike's FSmash could be as strong as a Warlock punch, but just like that punch, it's far, FAR, too slow to ever actually hit outside of a hard read.

 

[Arrei]

Yeah, that's why I didn't like that his old smashes were all barely touched. Dsmash was simply way too slow, and Fsmash was both too slow and too laggy, as faster smashes could be charged for the same hard reads and the recovery was long enough to be easily punished on both whiff and block. Ultimate's nerfs to shielding could make it safer on block, but it sounds like it still has that nonsensical tipper sourspot that makes it so proper positioning with it isn't even as rewarding.

The things I wanted to see most from Ultimate were improvements to his hitboxes, damage output, and combo potential. We've got some of the first and third category, with his new Nair, new Uair, and general lag reductions across the roster, but judging by the list of changes it seems like we still have oddities like the incredibly long cooldown time on Bair, the rubbish spike hitbox on Dair, or the bizarre weak late hitboxes on Usmash and Dsmash.

But what I find most peculiar is that his damage output has received more reductions than increases in Ultimate. His Smash 4 version had ferocious knockback on a lot of moves to the point that the majority of his moves become kill moves, but it always felt like most of those moves didn't have the damage output to match a "power" character's kit, especially when comparing to other characters. For example, his old Uair possessing great knockback, but only having similar damage output to Falcon and Mewtwo's much faster, comboing Uairs while being both weaker and slower than Uairs from the likes of Wario, Ganondorf, DK, etc., as if they had to take out points from all of its offensive parameters in order to balance out the hitbox duration. Reducing the damage of moves like his jab, which we've been mourning since the transition from Brawl, or his pummel just seems baffling to me.

 

[Idon]

I wish his DSmash became a buffed up speedy eruption so that we'd have an excuse for a sword user to hit both sides at once and not be a dumb, slow, swipe-swipe.

Also his new B could be that damn sword beam.

 

[Iridium]

Imagine if happened to be the best FE character in the game? Not saying it will ( so far is really good too), but that would mean a lot. Also, can anyone show me footage of Ike's sword beams? It sounds cool, but I have never seen them.

 

[Idon]

Imagine if happened to be the best FE character in the game? Not saying it will ( so far is really good too), but that would mean a lot. Also, can anyone show me footage of Ike's sword beams. It sounds cool, but I have never seen them.

Unfortunately, a Fates amiibo is all I could find, but be forewarned...
It's a meme music video as well.

 

[TempestSurge]

Imagine if happened to be the best FE character in the game? Not saying it will ( so far is really good too), but that would mean a lot. Also, can anyone show me footage of Ike's sword beams. It sounds cool, but I have never seen them.

At the very least, I'm seeing a lot more players expressing interest in Ike in Ultimate so hopefully we can see Ike have more of a presence in this upcoming competitive scene. Maybe Ryuga may even pick Ike back up again.

 

[Idon]

It's been around 13 years since Path of Radiance so it's always nice to brush up on your Ike references.
I forget how many small touches Ike actually has from his games and that's super neat.

Now if we could only get that aether followup and that sword beam, lol.

 

[hermes]

Aether is the most hype of all moves in fire emblem to me and its sad that aether is ehhh in smash. I want it to be as good and epic like dolphin slash. Maybe super armor for the entire duration great damage and healing and some great visuals could help.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Aether is scary when used correctly: It is a hard move to dodge out of when you're caught in it, and it is capable of meteor-ing anyone no longer in invul frames when hanging from the stage edge, able to KO instantly regardless of % as the downward spike effect is that strong. It being able to heal would...be broken. Sure, if it healed like 10% of any damage received when hit during the super armor would be neat.

I remember how stupid Aether was in Brawl when used to edgeguard

 

[hermes]

Wait, isnt aether the worst fire embem up b? Aether cant singlehandedly fill the recovery role, it is also linear and sometimes exploitable. Has still weak offensive and barely any onstage utility. Elwind comes close with weaker defense but it can recover horizontally and has heighy for some edgeguard or mixups for recovery. Then draconic ascent then blazer then dolphin slash imho. I think it should have damage+healing(like that cute little sword hitbox should do 8% damage and healing) and a full aether combo should do really nice damage+some healing so we should consider up b as a hype option to catch some people onstage for nice percentage. Maybe it could eat shields so up b sword could be anti edgeguard. And again, please superarmor for the full duration. I love aether but I want more hype.

 

[FieryRebirth]

If you're focusing on recovery aspects, yes, Aether is pretty bad. It's offensive traits are what I was referring to. Any char with a wind blow trait or water jet push is able to easily ko a recovering Ike.

Character fighters like Cloud, despite his stupidly low frame data to compensate have it way worse when it comes to recovery. Aether beats his even by offense by far, plus Ike has a horizontal recover too. Those with predictable and easily gimping recoveries could use a buff as you described, but would full super armor for Aether really be necessary? Ike would be flat out immune to ledge trumping.

...Like Corrin. Hm.

 

[Idon]

Yeah but aether isn't even that great offensively.
It's really telegraphed, easily avoidable, has enemies fall out of it all the time, and is super punishable. The spike is really only good for catching people trying to recover while you recover yourself.

Even as an edgeguarding tool, I can't imagine when you'd ever use it over something like eruption.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Well, Aether so far in Ultimate footage seems to be relatively unchanged, other than a physics nerf(t was a glitch anyway). We may be too late in asking for it to be buffed if it truly needs one.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Main thing I think Ike needs is some Ko confirms, his better aerial game in this seem to indicate he'll be able to pressure quite a bit better, but we've always needed that insurance, besides something goony like Eurption at the edge the rare time it's possible or a stray bair or fair, with the occasional tilt kill.

 

[TempestSurge]

It's funny, I feel like if Ike was never in Brawl, but added as a newcomer in Smash 4, his Aether would likely be more representative of his game version. It's not as if Sakurai doesn't know Ike's Ragnell has a projectile, he just removed it for balance in his words. And newcomers in Brawl weren't as gimmicky as they are in 4.

I don't know if Sakurai will still feel the same way about Ike's Aether as he did in Brawl. Cloud seemed to throw that notion out the door. Link getting his sword beam makes me think Ike could see a change in the same vein, but Sakurai played Ike in the demo and won lol. He may think Ike is just fine the way he is with the changes he's already given him. Then again, Ike went from red flames to blue flames in 4's development so hard to make a call either way.

 

[Idon]

It's funny, I feel like if Ike was never in Brawl, but added as a newcomer in Smash 4, his Aether would likely be more representative of his game version. It's not as if Sakurai doesn't know Ike's Ragnell has a projectile, he just removed it for balance in his words. And newcomers in Brawl weren't as gimmicky as they are in 4.

I don't know if Sakurai will still feel the same way about Ike's Aether as he did in Brawl. Cloud seemed to throw that notion out the door. Link getting his sword beam makes me think Ike could see a change in the same vein, but Sakurai played Ike in the demo and won lol. He may think Ike is just fine the way he is with the changes he's already given him. Then again, Ike went from red flames to blue flames in 4's development so hard to make a call either way.

That's exactly right.
It's weird how the Sakurai that exists at launch of Smash is a completely different Sakurai during DLC.

My theory is that all the Smashers's project proposal plans are pushed through a gimmick preproduction, Ike's being "heavy swordsman," which leads to his entire playstyle being based around that, lore be damned.
However, with DLC, he's much more free to go canonical and add in everything about the character that they actually do due to not being forced to make a gimmick for the character to justify their inclusion.

At least that's how I justify Cloud existing in the same game as Ike.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Sakurai had expressed ignorance(or feigned)of the sword beam in a past interview, going so far to say that Ike's Ragnell didn't have the sword beam in the Tellius games and said it as if it were a fact.

Cynicism aside, would the sword beam play into Ultimate Ike well? I can see it functioning akin to Link's and only activating while at 0%, despite lore. As for Sakurai's Ike play, I could tell he was holding back, I saw that sick counter he pulled off on Charizard's Flare Blitz at such a short range.

 

[TempestSurge]

Sakurai had expressed ignorance(or feigned)of the sword beam in a past interview, going so far to say that Ike's Ragnell didn't have the sword beam in the Tellius games and said it as if it were a fact.

Cynicism aside, would the sword beam play into Ultimate Ike well? I can see it functioning akin to Link's and only activating while at 0%, despite lore. As for Sakurai's Ike play, I could tell he was holding back, I saw that sick counter he pulled off on Charizard's Flare Blitz at such a short range.

I don't think Ike's sword beam will follow Link's function since Link did have that no damage restriction in his games, and Link's beam is connected to his jab whereas Ike's is to a special, well if Sakurai implements it similarly to that one custom Aether wave move.

Personally I wouldn't miss counter if it was replaced for the sword beam, Sakurai even went out of his way to give Robin a move he couldn't canonically use cause he didn't feel like Robin was the counter attack kind of person. I think the counter function is represented pretty well with the FE reps already, it'd be nice to see something different. And still salty that Cloud has his sword beam mapped to a special that can get even stronger with limit lol. But oh well, since Eruption has been changed to be given range, I'm not going to hold my breath with the sword beam hope. Or at least keep expectations low and be relatively surprised, that always works lol.

 

[FieryRebirth]

That's what I meant, man. I figured Ike's sword beam shouldn't be something major like Cloud's. It can be just a simple convenience if you play well and avoid damage. We all know Ike fits well in his Heavy Swordfighter fighter archetype(In Smash ultimately)through his kit, and with Cloud taking that long-awaited "sword beam mapped to special" slot really does hurt the chances of Ike getting similar treatment, hence my suggestion.

As I said before, I'm aware of the lore behind Link's SB and as you pointed out with Robin's Nosferatu, why not Ike too just to make his sword actually THE Ragnell we PoR/RD players know so well?

 

[Idon]

That's what I meant, man. I figured Ike's sword beam shouldn't be something major like Cloud's. It can be just a simple convenience if you play well and avoid damage. We all know Ike fits well in his Heavy Swordfighter fighter archetype(In Smash ultimately)through his kit, and with Cloud taking that long-awaited "sword beam mapped to special" slot really does hurt the chances of Ike getting similar treatment, hence my suggestion.

As I said before, I'm aware of the lore behind Link's SB and as you pointed out with Robin's Nosferatu, why not Ike too just to make his sword actually THE Ragnell we PoR/RD players know so well?

Because I want to actually use it.
Like, for real.
Not be some "oh neat" reference.

Having more spacing options will always be useful, far more useful than a get hit or die move like counter. Plenty of characters share specials besides and making him share Link's gimmick specifically makes no sense and is quite useless on top of that.

Their playstyles being completely different with Ike regularly taking unavoidable damage, it'd never be seen.

This on top of the fact that Ike's FSmash is the worst in the game and tying a move on top of that slow startup would make it even more unlikely to be seen EVER.

 

[Flon]

What are all of your opinions on the global damage reduction for short hop aerials?

Smash Ultimate introduces a new damage multiplier of 0.85x applied when you use aerials on a short hop.

It explains the inconsistency I kept seeing for damage—it's very messy in this game!

 

[Idon]

What are all of your opinions on the global damage reduction for short hop aerials?

Smash Ultimate introduces a new damage multiplier of 0.85x applied when you use aerials on a short hop.

It explains the inconsistency I kept seeing for damage—it's very messy in this game!

Aw, that sounds incredibly lame.
Seems like it might affect big heavy characters more due to aerials being their primary method of getting quick wide attacks.

 

[san.]

Ike, Corrin, and others who pop up opponents with landing nairs and uairs will benefit from the change. Doesn't really hurt Ike much.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Aw, that sounds incredibly lame.
Seems like it might affect big heavy characters more due to aerials being their primary method of getting quick wide attacks.

Damage dealt also plays a factor in how quickly the attack can KO. As such, the 0.85x damage multiplier is one heck of a nerf for any fighter who has quick aerials that have KO potential.

 

[Idon]

Damage dealt also plays a factor in how quickly the attack can KO. As such, the 0.85x damage multiplier is one heck of a nerf for any fighter who has quick aerials that have KO potential.

Ah I see, that makes sense

 

[Arrei]

It'll primarily hurt his ability to kill with a short hop Bair, I guess. I wonder if this allows for Ike to have any kill combo potential, though. I can certainly see the Sm4sh Uair abusers like Mario and Falcon securing kill confirms at higher percentages by making use of the lowered knockback out of a SH, maybe SH Nair will link into full hop kill confirms. Ike's own Uair remains a meaty, heavy hit despite its new data, though, but maybe it'll allow him to juggle at lower percents?