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R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.

Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
18,990
maybe for a gimp or something, but Snake has many great edgeguarding options, many of which don't put him in a position he doesn't want to be in (like offstage >.>)

Mortars, nades, tilts, mines, and C4 are generally safer and therefore better options for Snake when edgeguarding most of the cast and they all allow you to continue to set up traps onstage unlike bairing their recovery (and possibly dying while trying)
I never use nades to edgeguard. The other options, yes I do.
 
Joined
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Messages
18,990
I only use them for camping purposes. No one has ever told me how to edgeguard with nades, that's why I don't know how to edgeguard with them.

Just give me a way then there!
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
Premium
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
8,189
Alright guys, here is what i have so far. I would like you guys to read it and critique and tell me what I need to fix.

Edgeguarding guide said:
-Bowser
Limit129 helped with this summary
Bowser has a fairly easy recovery to read. We will discuss him recovering from high, and recovering from below. Bowser does not have the best recovery. It is very horizontal with a tiny bit of vertical momentum.

If he is recovering from above he may try to drop down below the ledge and upb to sweet spot it. If you think he is going to do this, you can try to double jump and b reverse a c4 and detonate. You may or may not hit Bowser, but it it is a safe option. Also, another option of Bowser's is to Bowser bomb to the ledge. Just hug the ledge before he gets to it. He will die.

If he is recovering from a middle height, hug the ledge and use a bair to edgeguard him. It will send him further away or it will kill him. If you don't have time to bair, just hug the ledge. You can jump up in time to get onto the ledge to grab him out of his up b.


-Captain Falcon
Captain Falcon has one of the worst recoveries in the game. However, he has two options when recovering. Side b and up b. He will always try his best to land on the stage away from you when recovering from high. So just chase him down when he is recovering from above.
When he is recovering from horizontal he will use his raptor boost. Your best option is to hug the ledge, but not too early or you will get spiked. He will miss and fall to his death, if he happens to still do the move and gets over you. Just jump up and do a bair.
When he is recovering from below he will use his up b. Just hog the ledge. He has so much lag at the end of it that you can get up from the ledge and do almost anything.

-Diddy Kong

Diddy has a very good recovery. However, even though it is good, it is gimpable. Diddy will almost always aim to get on the ledge.
Diddy’s options when recovering are to use his side b, his peanut gun to reverse his momentum, and to use his up b(which can be charged!). Your bair hits through his side b. So if you see him going for the side b, just jump up and get that Bair in the game. Nair will not always eat through it. Bair is the best option. After Diddy does his side b. He will either do his Dair or air dodge to avoid your attack. Just play patient, you can punish this easily. While he is still falling he may try to reverse his momentum a little bit to avoid your attack. Don’t worry about this too much, it puts them a bit further off. After falling further way from the stage they will use their up b. Just run off and Bair before they get to the ledge. The Bair will cut through the up b. HOWEVER, if you do it late you will die from a dair. Its risky. The best option is to just hug the ledge. If he is recovering from an angle don’t let go of the ledge, you will survive the blast, he won’t.

-Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong is one of the easiest characters to edgeguard. He has one option when recovering. He will use his up b to get back to the ledge.
If DK is recovering from above he will most likely use his up b to try to g et to one of the platforms or away from you. Just chase and give him a hurting.
If DK is recovering from the side he will use his Up b which you can easily interrupt with a bair. Hit him, regrab the ledge, and rinse wash repeat.
Fun tip: If DK is above 100%, and is on the ledge, walk towards the ledge until you are about an ftilts distance away. And hold jab, DK has 0 options that go through this.

-Falco
Edgeguarding falco is like fox, you have to approach it differently. The only difference is that phantasm has longer range, he has a shorter UpB length, and fewer options to mix-up his recovery. Given phantasms longer range, it enables him farther access into the stage allowing him to reach platforms or other sections more quickly.

Depending where falco is offstage, that will determine how you hit him. If falco has no other option but to recover with phantasm and go for the ledge, edgehog him. If he has access to either going onto the very edge of the stage, or edge, you'll have to do a guessing game. If he goes for the ledge you can just edgehog, if on stage, then you can punish him for doing that. A better option would be to charge Fsmash on the edge and time it to hit him out of phantasm, but this can be difficult to time. But really only do this when phantasm is at it's longest reach. Any shorter, and falco will just phantasm over you onto a platform, or land on the stage behind you. It can however be a good feint to try this. You can appear to charge Fsmash forcing falco to think to go over you. Then, you just punish the ending lag.

Falco's recovery just sucks, so he should never be attempting to recover from a high height when offstage. Instead, he will try to approach from a low angle, most typically going for the ledge. If he ever does approach from on high, punish any landing lag from a phantasm usage, or make landing trecherous with various methods. If Falco is recovering from high up, it'll likely be from some other failed killing method. The best action here is to cover the stage with various hotspots. If there are any platforms, he can cancel his phantasm to try to land on one, then from there get back to the main part of the stage.

When Falco is on the ledge, use a tactic similar to what you use with Fox. Grenade, mine or c4 at the full length of phantasm, then camp the edge waiting for him to try something. Any recovery under the stage will likely be UpB. That is a chance for a free stock. Bair him, or edgehog.
-Fox
Edgeguarding fox requires a different approach than others. Fox you either have to go offstage and kill, or set-up a lot of defences on stage. Once fox gets the ledge, trying to prevent him from getting onstage is difficult.

Bair is your friend offstage. It will hit him out of UpB, and hit him out of his Fox Illusion when timed correctly. Also, edgehogging ruins his recovery when he is at a distance. You either get a stock this way, or cause him to go onstage where you can punish his lag.

If fox grabs the ledge, it can be hard to predict what he will do next. He can stall underneath from the ledge with repeated shines. He can fox illusion past you, has access to all the regular ledge options. The best solution to all of this is to stay near the edge with a mine, c4 or grenade behind you at fox illusions maximum length. By doing this, you make it risky for him to try to go onstage with fox illusion, as you can punish him in the start up lag, or ending lag should he manage to get past you. Do deal with the planking, it's probably best to try to go offstage and Bair him and get him underneath the stage. Jumping, get-up, attack and roll you will have to deal with by prediction and reaction. If you ever try to use grenades or mortar, he can just fox illusion past you.

-Game and Watch
Thank you Hylian for contributing
Game and Watch is hard to edgeguard. His Up b hits us before we can hit them, so it is not worth trying to chase him off stage. Your best bet is to just hug the ledge and have him land on stage for you to hit him when he lands. Game and Watch is really light, but he has the bucket break. So he will live for a while. Your best option is just to straight up kill him. Snake can’t really do anything about Game and Watch when he is recovering. Just hug and get up and try to punish whatever he tries to do.

-Ganondorf
Poor recovery. That explains pretty much all of what ganondorf has. When ganon is offstage, attempting to hit him with an aerial is not too bad an idea. Although, watch out that you do not get sideB. If you mess up your timing, you will get ganoncided. To reduce the risk, attempt to hit ganon offstage when you have the stock lead. At least if you get ganoncided, you'll still have the stock lead and not have to worry about another stock. Since he has poor recovery, edgehogging him will either kill him, or force his recovery onstage where you can punish the lag.

If ganon gets the ledge, his options are the typical ledge option, or planking with Uair & UpB/SideB. Ganon also has the option to jump above you and attempt to Wiz Kick down, or SideB. Do not try to beat out wizkick, you'll just trade hits. SideB you should be able to spot dodge on reaction. Placing a mine near the ledge will limit a few of his options. For one, Uair and UpB planking risk hitting the mine. It will also cover his ledge attack. If he just gets-up, try to mix in grabs and Ftilt. If he rolls, punish him. If he attempts to into the air, you'll either be hit with Wizkick, or he will try to jump over you. Either way, make his landing trecherous.

When ganon is recovering on high, he has limited horiziontal movement. So almost in every case he will go for the ledge. Beware that ganon might attempt to hit you with Dair or Wiz Kick from on high. To avoid this, do not attempt to hit him in the air when you are underneath him. Just punish his landing. Wiz Kick has 2 hitboxes. The intial kick, and a shockwave when it lands on the ground.

-Ice Climbers
Thank you Hylian for contributing
Ice climbers when they are high will always try to Squall to recover. Your best options are to Uair, Bair, or grab them out of it. Generally you want to Uair because of how light they are.
When Ice climbers are recovering from low they will use their up b. When Nana grabs the ledge you have time to run off the stage and do a bair to hit Popo out of the up b. Another option is to set a C4 on the ledge and wait for nana to grab the ledge then detonate it.
When you are against Solo Popo he has two options for recovering. He can squall, in which case you will uptilt, Uair, bair, dtilt, ftilt, or grab. Anything works on him.
If Solo Popo is recovering from below just hug the ledge, he is dead that way.

-Ike
Ike’s recovery is horrible. His side b is interruptible if you just jump in front of it or even put a grenade in front of him.
For his up b, spam mortars and then hug the ledge. He will up b, get hit by the mortars, and he will fly further off. If you can time the hug right Ike is dead on the spot. Just don’t do mortars if you can get the timing for hugging the ledge against Ike. If he does land on the stage just jump up and bair, or just get up and uptilt.

-Jigglypuff
Jigglypuff shouldn’t be recovering vs you. She should be dead straight off the bat. We can’t do anything about Jiggs recovery. But, she is so light that it doesn’t matter. If you want something to preoccupy your time just spam mortars against her.

-King Dedede
King Dedede has a ton of jumps and a good up b. Don’t run off the stage against D3, or you are dead.
When D3 is recovering from above he will just use his jumps and get back on the stage. Be careful when you are chasing him. He may use his Dair , or even worse his bair. If he does an aerial you will have time to punish him. Just be quick about it.
When D3 is recovering from below he will use his jumps and then his upb. So what you do is spam mortar and then jump up and use an aerial. The Mortars will hit him and give him damage. The Aerial will kill him off. I personally like to use Nair. I have seen many Snakes use fair or bair.

-Kirby
Kirby has a good recovery.
When Kirby is recovering from above he will typically go above the stage and use his down b. Then cancel it. Then based on where you are he may down b again or he will just jump away. Be careful of his down b. It is actually a good move.
When Kirby is recovering horizontally he will use his jumps alongside his side b(hammer) to give him momentum to get to the ledge. If he has enough jumps he won’t use his up b to get to the ledge. However, if he doesn’t have enough jumps he will use his Up b, which is where we can punish, just up tilt through it.
When Kirby is recovering from below he will use his jumps and then depending if he got to the ledge or not he will use his up b. Which is where you punish with an uptilt for the kill.

-Link
The worst recovery in the game award goes to Link. His recovery is absolute trash. It’s even worse than it was in melee. Just hug the ledge in time and he is as good as dead. The only things you have to watch out for are projectiles. What out for them get the ledge and Link is dead.
If Link is close to the ledge he will just tether to the ledge. Just toss nades til he gets up on the stage.

-Lucario
Lucario has a very punishable recovery.
When Lucario is recovering from above he will try to just land on the stage. To help him out in this effort he has his Dair. His dair is nicely disjointed for him to be safe. So be careful if you try to chase him in the air with a uair or a bair. If you approach him from the side he will either air dodge, use an aerial, or use his down b. Try to figure out which one he will use. Then punish accordingly.
When Lucario is recovering from the side he will just use his up b to get back to the ledge. His up b has a good amount of start up lag. You can hit him for the kill during this lag with a bair, if you are late just stay on the ledge. He will either try to land on the stage with his up b, or he will die as he tries to get back to the ledge.
When Lucario is recovering from below he will just use his up b to get to the ledge. Just hug the ledge and he should be dead.
Extra info. If you are on a stage where you can wall jump Lucario may try to use his up b to get to the wall and then he will wall jump to get back on to the stage. If you see this happening get up and do an uptilt.

-Luigi

-Lucas

-Mario

-Marth

-Meta Knight

-Ness

-Olimar

-Peach
Peach recovery is such that it is dangerous for her to recover in an angle other than from on high, or low.

If she tries to approach from a low angle, she should either be using her float, 2nd jump, parasol or SideB for recovery. SideB and Parasol both have a lot of lag upon landing on the stage, so you should be able to expect them to launch these attacks and have them cancel out by auto snapping the ledge. With her float and 2nd jump she can either go for the ledge or stage. In most cases, she should go for the ledge. It's just the safest place for her to go or else you can punish her trying to land on the stage.

When peach is on the ledge, she has very few options that she can actually use. Roll, Get-up, Attack, jump, ledge hopped aerials (expect Fair has it can cancel and gets somewhat good distance past the ledge), or stalling by falling and parasol usage. If she already used her float and has not touched the ground yet, her float option does not refresh when she regrabs the ledge.

With all of this in mind, you can go about creating a set-up that should edgeguard her extremely well. If you space a mine close to the edge, but not directly on the ledge, you will have just eliminated either her get-up or attack option, and any ledge hopped aerials. Because of she tries any of those, she will hit the mine. With that option covered, you can try to cover the others: jumping, stalling, or rolling. If she tries to roll, she will roll straight into your grasp. So your presence there should be enough to deter that option. All that leaves you with is stalling and the jump option. With a little bit of prediction, you can cover those choices she has as well. A wall of mortars with make an aerial approach difficult to get past, and if she tries to stall, you can try to cook grenades or use the nikita missle to hit her.

If Peach tries to approach from on high, it will be much more difficult to predict her path. Trying to predict her path will depend upon the location of platforms (if any) and how high in the air she is already. The higher in the air she is, the further into the stage she can get. The first thing to do should be to position yourself so that no matter where she lands, it will be in front of you. Mortars can help deter peach from going past you when she is high in the air. The next thing would be to start make some choices of what you should do next. You could either try to hit her while she is still in the air, try to wait for her to get back to the ground/platform before deciding to do anything, or try to hit her in the air with an aerial. Peach has a slow falling speed, this means she has excellent horizontal range (further increased with moves such as float, UpB, and Peach Bomber). Some might try to FF Dair past you, to avoid this, just Uair, the trade off in damage is in Snake's favor.

-Pit

-Pokemon Trainer

-R.O.B

-Samus

-Shiek

-Snake

-Sonic

-Toon Link

-Wario

-Wolf

-Yoshi

-Zelda

-Zero Suit Samus
 

Yumewomiteru

Smash Master
Joined
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Allston, MA
NNID
yumewomiteru
One thing I'll say about Dedede is that if you knock him off immediately send a nikita after him, Jump towards him and use nikita is preffered because it will get you closer to him. He has a hard time avoiding it and it will usually force him to fastfall and Up B unto the stage/ledge. From there you can punish it with aerials, bair/nair most likely. And when Dedede is on the ledge, dont stand there waiting for him to do something, he can ledge hop swallowcide you, instead use mines/C4/nades/nikita.
 

RATED

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Location
The Grand Line... PR
I only use them for camping purposes. No one has ever told me how to edgeguard with nades, that's why I don't know how to edgeguard with them.Just give me a way then there!
*FACEPALM* ... I am not being " bad" bcuz I don't want to be stingy is just that reading or listening people saying things like that... cmon there's one thingy called "experimenting" " creative" . :)
 

hyperhopper

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
643
Location
ON MY ROOMBA!
Put the C4 near the edge, making the ledge unsafe to land on. Mortar can be used on the ledge to hit those trying to recover low. Mines are similar to C4. Cook then throw nades off the edge to limit their recovery options. IF they recover, you want them to be in a position where you can easily either kill them, or knock them off the stage, and repeat the edgeguarding process again. Of course, it would be much more preferred if you just got the kill.

Didn't I see you in the PC as well?
yes you did!
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
Premium
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
8,189
I was pretty unsure with the Jigglypuff part because I have never really had to edgeguard a jigglypuff. Would anyone like to add their 2c to it?
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
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Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Lucario doesn't use downB very often like at all (such a garbage move sadly D: )
He'll save that second jump for the clencher, because it's a pretty large second jump with that floating, He'll also use BAS/fair and the occasional mindgame b-reversal -> bair to get you off his back when he's recovering from about mid level.

He'll also try using b-reversal when recovering from above. Lucario will be really hard to punish when recovering at this point.

If he's recovering from below, that means he's either trying to mix it up or he messed up big time, and in this case, he's pretty easy.

You'll want to FS wallcling when you can, it'll actually release him from the cling and he'll be unable to use ES again, and you don't have to worry about him teching the stage if you attack him or missing so to speak.
 
Joined
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Messages
18,990
*FACEPALM* ... I am not being " bad" bcuz I don't want to be stingy is just that reading or listening people saying things like that... cmon there's one thingy called "experimenting" " creative" . :)
Oh so you make your own way. Cooking nades then is the way to go then. I forgot all about the creative nade thing -.- . Anyway thanks for the reminder:)
 

RATED

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Location
The Grand Line... PR
Lucario doesn't use downB very often like at all (such a garbage move sadly D: )
He'll save that second jump for the clencher, because it's a pretty large second jump with that floating, He'll also use BAS/fair and the occasional mindgame b-reversal -> bair to get you off his back when he's recovering from about mid level.

He'll also try using b-reversal when recovering from above. Lucario will be really hard to punish when recovering at this point.

If he's recovering from below, that means he's either trying to mix it up or he messed up big time, and in this case, he's pretty easy.

You'll want to FS wallcling when you can, it'll actually release him from the cling and he'll be unable to use ES again, and you don't have to worry about him teching the stage if you attack him or missing so to speak.
against Lucario what I do is to place a Mine(Dsmash) and edgehog. but the Dsmash I place it in a distance where if I roll from the edge I don't explode with it. so that I could still have that option.
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
Premium
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
8,189
If games don't make you better. Its the things you do that get you better.
 

DaomarIsBear

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
200
Location
Key West, FL
I dunno how I ended up there, but I just read of Ally's Smashwiki page that he punched M2K in the face at a tourny.

I threw a link on the bottom of the previous page.
 

6Mizu

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
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Location
Somewhere in the SubspaceEmissary(NC, Morrisville)
Whoa, this is definitely ****ing BS! I don't believe this crap!


I dunno how I ended up there, but I just read of Ally's Smashwiki page that he punched M2K in the face at a tourny.

I threw a link on the bottom of the previous page.


Ally is freaking good.
LUUUUUL

mad respects for Ally, but I'd like dem $500 though, hmm.....
Mad props for gullibility
No Yume, do not rat out our best Snake. :)
 
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