R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Hey guys. I've been a Marth main for quite some time, but after all these years of brawl/melee Marth I think I've finally gotten bored of him. I'm thinking of switching mains from Marth to Snake. Snake, in my opinion, is much harder to master, and he's really fun to play as. Well, I hope to learn some new things and help out as best I can. Any suggestions/tricks I should know for sure to play as Snake? (Hopefully I'll get a video up some time soon for critiquing)

 

[Ken Neth]

Lucario's have one with a Pink Lucario wearing Pika's headband balancing a styrofoam cup on his tail. Fire is involved. Sonic's have one(admittedly made by a Lucario <3 those guys) with a Sonic headed basketball player named Shugo slam dunking on someone named OS) fox mainers have one with the names of a bunch of their mainers on it. I'm sure there are others.

Sonic's have one(admittedly made by a Lucario <3 those guys) with a Sonic headed basketball player named Shugo slam dunking on someone named OS)

with a Sonic headed basketball player named Shugo slam dunking on someone named OS

That was ME that made that....... Unless it's something entirely different that I'm thinking of, then I feel stupid.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You made the picture. Milln from the Lucario boards made the shirt. h/o I'll go grab the link.

http://www.zazzle.com/climbing_steak_mountain_tshirt-235273564400157178

 

[Ken Neth]

Oh, gotcha. LOL that pic was the only point infraction I've ever received here, and I think it was worth it

Edit: That's an awesome shirt I honestly didn't expect to see much of that picture after I made it, but now I see it everywhere it seems like. It's on people's AiB profiles, facebook, and now even a tshirt.

 

[Zajice]

You got an infraction point for that?

Lame...

 

[Ken Neth]

Yeah, it was for flaming or something. Oh well, doesn't really matter to me.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

About half of the Sonic boards have been banned. I've come close. Boxob got super banned.

 

[napZzz]

The things you can recieve infractions for are ********. I posted constructive criticism on a combo vid that in no way sounded mean, it was just like

There could have been a little more effort put into this, I'm sure if you make another one it will be good, or something like that and I got a point for minor flaming

I also got a point for a signature infraction? I guess my post was shorter than my sig or something

 

[The Filth]

So I won my own hosted tourney =]

Went zero suit 95% of it, but was losing Grand Finals 2-0. Switched to snake and won 3-2.

<3 grenades.

 

[Zajice]

Snake never let's you down when you need him.

Pikachu on the other hand... >_>

10stupidrats

 

[napZzz]

Snake failed me grand finals of the last tourney I went to. I used GnW when the score was 2-1 his favor and almost won the set somehow but he switched to MK and 3 stocked me.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

 

[Underload]

I just need a long strip of cloth to tie around my head. No fancy bandanas or anything.

 

[Zajice]

I was gonna recommend having the Nintendo logo on it to emulate Diddy's hat on yours Underload.

Btw, Xbox Kirby texture with Diddy's hat is lulzy.

 

[Tennet]

this is really cool...
on BF as snake i would go close to the middle of the stage cook a nade and go backwards when i got to the edge of the stage i would jump and strong toss it and it would slide on the platform and blow up in the middle

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Poor Marth. I was screwing around with frames again and Marth's front roll from Snake's Dthrow is BAD.
It's invincibility starts at frame 6. Even with Snake's 1 frame disadvantage, you can jab Marth if he does a front roll. You can do a ftilt if you are frame perfect too LOL.

 

[SuSa]

Crystal brought that up a while back. I just never edited it into the dthrow topic. <_<

You don't really need to be frame perfect, just buffer it. lol

I think Wolf is in a similiar state.... just not 100% certain.

 

[IxxI]

LMAO.
For all you people who were early Snake boarders, remember this?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203724

I swear I wasn't trolling.
I was a total noob.
I still am.

 

[Underload]

Can the Snake boards give me any advice on the Toon Link matchup? It's a prevalent one in Colorado, and I probably need to prepare properly.

 

[IxxI]

Nevermind, don't listen to me.

 

[SuSa]

Do not camp; he can outcamp you, powershield his projectiles, get a dthrow in when he has no bomb/boomerang. Then simply react to what he does. (Look at the dthrow topic by me)

It should literally be an 0-death if you grab.... <_< that's how its been for me all but the first few times I tried it... learn the animations, and react quickly. No need to shield unless you see him do the getup attack.

Avoid air or getting juggled at all times.

Grenades, ftilt, and grab when he gets medium distance (grenades), semi-close (ftilt), close (grab).

This matchup can be really annoying unless you practice powershielding the projectiles....once you get that down, it's pretty easy.

 

[nevershootme]

sparknotes on Toon Link

-Hook shot -> n-air (early percent), u-smash (kill if you don't DI the hookshot), f-air for damage
-you can SDI the 1st hit of f-smash and maybe d-smash
-Abuse his distance lag when he pulls out bombs,
-Power shield...
-Time your grenade landings on their feet (That's how i gained the lead in one match vs a campy toon link

 

[Zajice]

If you d-throw Toon Link, he loses a stock. :3

 

[SuSa]

He should lose a stock. Assuming he doesn't have a bomb in hand, or a boomerang out, and you can react quickly.

It's truly sad. :'(

 

[Underload]

Okay, so, let's comb through the information in the dthrow thread and here:

• Learn to powershield everything, including zair + followup
• Rack up damage with down throw
• Don't camp TL, you'll lose every time
• Pressure with tilts and aerials to prevent projectile spam
• Learn to utilize jump out of powershield

Am I on target here?
_____________________________

Here's a couple more questions I have.

Any solid counterpicks I should consider when going against Toon Link? How about must-bans?

What are the best tactics to prevent being juggled?

At what percents should uptilt kill when fresh?

What are the best ways to edgeguard TL?

 

[SuSa]

You won't lose everytime. It's just not worth it... maybe camp until your out of the bair chain or gimp %'s...


Oh, DI EVERYTHING besides utilt/usmash/uair upwards. Fsmash? DI up. Fair? DI up. Dair? Pfffft. ok, DI this towards the stage... Bair? DI up.... Nair? DI up.... Jab? SDI+DI up+away... ftilt? DI up unless at lower %'s, then DI down and tech the stage. Dtilt?... they use that move? Dsmash? DI+SDI up+towards first hit. Second hit should miss Oo


But yeah, change "rack up damage" to "gain a stock advantage" with down throw.

And now you basically have everything down. It's just a lot of powershielding. lmao

Also yes, OoS dair/bair *****. =p

 

[Underload]

Which one is SDI? I get confused with all this DI hoo-hah...

When I get hit with a potential kill move, I just DI behind and ff a bair or two, is that SDI? People say I have good DI (except online), so I must do something right :/

What about good CPs, that might come into play sometime. I'll see if I can find the utilt numbers myself.

 

[IxxI]

DI with DAir.

 

[Ken Neth]

Can't you SDI his dsmash down and tech (avoiding the second hit) and punish?

 

[Underload]

I DI with bair off the side, dair off the top.

Can't find any utilt numbers, I'll probably test it myself.

 

[SuSa]

Which one is SDI? I get confused with all this DI hoo-hah...

When I get hit with a potential kill move, I just DI behind and ff a bair or two, is that SDI? People say I have good DI (except online), so I must do something right :/

What about good CPs, that might come into play sometime. I'll see if I can find the utilt numbers myself.

SDI is the c-stick. Look at my compendium and find the thread I linked to (Swordgard's thread) and read up on DI.

Good CP's? I find ones with low cielings (coughs Halberd coughs) pretty good....

If you want to find utilt KO %'s on every stage, I'd love you. :3 just find the SBR legal stages... lol

DI with DAir.

10youareanidiotsgolookatourframedata

10 DI with bair's unless hit horizontally in which case DI with airdodge unless of course you need to fastfall then use bair.


EDIT:

Yes, I think you can Ken Neth. =p

@Underload
Make sure to share after you test. Also dair is a bit easier, but lasts longer. just bair then keep hitting down on the analog stick... gives you more time to b-reverse stuff and...stuff.. lol

 

[IxxI]

WHAT?!
DI with BAir now?
I'm failing today...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Crystal brought that up a while back. I just never edited it into the dthrow topic. <_<

You don't really need to be frame perfect, just buffer it. lol

I think Wolf is in a similiar state.... just not 100% certain.

Which reminds me, I never did get around to trying out Ftilt on the rest of the cast for Forward Roll, I just did the Jab. Something I can test out.

Poor Marth. I was screwing around with frames again and Marth's front roll from Snake's Dthrow is BAD.
It's invincibility starts at frame 6. Even with Snake's 1 frame disadvantage, you can jab Marth if he does a front roll. You can do a ftilt if you are frame perfect too LOL.

Well, that answers that question about frames. So in order for the Ftilt to work on people during the Forward Roll they have to have a frame 6 invincibility or else it won't work given Snake's 1 frame disadvantage from Dthrow.

 

[SuSa]

If you are going off my old DI thread, I was a complete idiot 99% of that and ignore me.

Frame data proved bair was the best for momentum canceling, with airdodge being "better" but you can't fastfall - so it's only "better" when you are hit horizantally and have no need to fast fall.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If you are going off my old DI thread, I was a complete idiot 99% of that and ignore me.

Frame data proved bair was the best for momentum canceling, with airdodge being "better" but you can't fastfall - so it's only "better" when you are hit horizantally and have no need to fast fall.

And as you proved later that even using Bair is still a better option at times for horizontal. Such as a case with Pit's Arrows.

 

[IxxI]

I'm so used to DI'ing with DAir...
AGH.

 

[-Ran]

Can the Snake boards give me any advice on the Toon Link matchup? It's a prevalent one in Colorado, and I probably need to prepare properly.

I could. I play Hyrulian Royalty almost every day. =| Pound for pound he's probably top five Toon Links in the nation at the moment. I'll post something on it later on.


Behold my mighty camp game vs Game and Watch. [starts at 4:53... I entered camp mode due to him picking Rainbow. -.-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPRyTZNfmn4&feature=PlayList&p=41D94FA8C227EDBB&index=8

Ps: I so sand bagged the second stock after my SD.

 

[Underload]

Okay, I'm going to start a project.

Fresh utilt kill percentages on every character on starters and starter/counters. That'll be my contribution.

WTH DI with the cstick? Blasphemy! Also, Halberd = brilliance.

 

[SuSa]

And as you proved later that even using Bair is still a better option at times for horizontal. Such as a case with Pit's Arrows.

I'm so used to DI'ing with DAir...
AGH.

Crystal, I thought I'd help then I realized I was correct... getup rolls are different from normal rolls. The frame data I have found shows Marth with frame 4 when it's really frame 6.

Back Roll

4-19 / 27 Lucario
4-19 / 29 Diddy
4-19 / 29 Squirtle

4-20 / 31 Kirby
4-19 / 31 Donkey Kong
4-19 / 31 Fox
4-19 / 31 Pikachu
4-19 / 31 Luigi
4-19 / 31 Zelda
4-19 / 31 Sheik
4-19 / 31 Falco
4-19 / 31 Lucas
4-19 / 31 Wolf
4-19 / 31 Ness
4-19 / 31 Sonic
4-19 / 31 Ganondorf
4-19 / 31 Ice Climbers
4-19 / 31 Captain Falcon
5-20 / 31 Peach

4-19 / 32 Jigglypuff
4-19 / 32 Mario
4-19 / 32 King Dedede
4-19 / 32 Ivysaur
4-19 / 32 Olimar
4-17 / 32 Pit

4-19 / 33 Snake
4-12 / 33 Metaknight
4-21 / 34 R.O.B
4-23 / 35 Marth
4-19 / 35 G&W
4-19 / 36 Charizard

4-21 / 37 Wario
4-19 / 37 Ike
4-19 / 37 Link
4-19 / 37 Zero Suit Samus
4-19 / 37 Yoshi
4-19 / 37 Toon Link
5-20 / 39 Bowser
4-23 / 44 Samus


Foward Roll

5-12 / 23 Metaknight
4-19 / 27 Lucario
4-17 / 27 Pit
4-15 / 27 Zero Suit Samus
4-19 / 29 Diddy
4-19 / 29 Squirtle

4-20 / 31 Kirby
4-19 / 31 Donkey Kong
4-19 / 31 Fox
4-19 / 31 Pikachu
4-19 / 31 Luigi
4-19 / 31 Zelda
4-19 / 31 Sheik
4-19 / 31 Falco
4-19 / 31 Peach
4-19 / 31 Ganondorf
4-19 / 31 Ice Climbers
4-19 / 31 Wolf
4-19 / 31 Ness
4-19 / 31 Sonic
4-19 / 31 Captain Falcon
4-19 / 31 Lucas

3-19 / 32 Jigglypuff
4-19 / 32 Mario
4-19 / 32 Ivysaur
4-19 / 32 King Dedede
4-19 / 32 Olimar

4-19 / 33 Ike
4-21 / 34 R.O.B
4-19 / 34 Yoshi
4-19 / 35 Charizard
4-19 / 35 Marth
4-19 / 35 G&W
4-17 / 35 Snake

4-21 / 37 Wario
4-19 / 37 Link
4-19 / 37 Toon Link
5-20 / 39 Bowser
4-23 / 44 Samus

Also IxxI, TBH for vertical knockback it doesn't really matter... for Horizontal, it makes a big difference. <_<

EDIT:

Oh****
Roll from floor
Invincibility starts at 7
ends at 21
36(Both front and back)

We can ftilt ourselves?

EDIT:

Above data has to be wrong.

Snake's Rolls:

Forward Roll dodge
Invincibility starts at frame 9
ends at frame 19
36

Backward roll dodge
Invincibility starts at frame 9
Ends at frame 19
34

 

[Underload]

Hey, here's one of the 3 Toon Links I'm talking about. vs. Snake, too! Yay!

Gimme tips. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkv3FuuafO0

 

[SuSa]

They aren't shielding the projectiles well enough.... they keep placing/using C4 at horrible times.

They are reacting slowly when they get dthrows.... instead of ftilting, simply grab him after the invincibility frames (aka: from the floor before the roll ends)

Their spacing wasn't exactly great as well. :x