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[QLD] Power Rankings V6.5 - Update 4/1/13

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luke_atyeo

luke_atyeo

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briefly went over the last few pages without really reading.


more like when will you guys start listening to more experianced people who know their ****.

probably said this already like a hundred times but...
you guys dont main snake, attila does, and so did I for years, and I agree with him.
esp marth, that matchup is ****ing hard (unless you play on picto chat hehehe)

even if you think you know more about it then attila, which you dont, he's been to japan and played against some of their best players, and I've been to america and played against some of their best players.
we've been there, done that, and know our ****.
 
Ghostbone

Ghostbone

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shmot said:
i think so.

falco is pretty good, but he's got some woeful matchups.

the game isn't that simple, ghost.
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I'd say characters below Falco have worse match-ups overall.

Though I'll admit he's an anomaly, Pikachu players are pretty much non-existent so it hardly matters.
 
luke_atyeo

luke_atyeo

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fox is almost better then falco, but not quite.

fox for number 1 underated character



a character can be 3rd and have ****ing terrible matchups, dork, get better please.


the way I see it, snake has massive massive weakness's and holes in his game, alot worse then alot of characters.

however, he also has massive massive abusable strengths that make up for those weakness's, propelling him up to the top of the tier list.


doesnt change the fact that he has weakness's that can be exploited by the right characters, and the right people, that can make things very difficult.

winning with a ground character while only touching the ground once per stock is tricky.
 
Ghostbone

Ghostbone

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luke_atyeo said:
fox is almost better then falco, but not quite.

fox for number 1 underated character
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Fox is terrible


a character can be 3rd and have ****ing terrible matchups, dork, get better please.


the way I see it, snake has massive massive weakness's and holes in his game, alot worse then alot of characters.

however, he also has massive massive abusable strengths that make up for those weakness's, propelling him up to the top of the tier list.


doesnt change the fact that he has weakness's that can be exploited by the right characters, and the right people, that can make things very difficult.

winning with a ground character while only touching the ground once per stock is tricky.
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See, what you're saying makes no sense.
If Snake was a character with easily abusable weaknesses that stopped him from winning, he wouldn't be so successful.

His strengths obviously make up for those weaknesses, preventing them from being abused by any character to a significant degree, as in, he doesn't have any 'terrible' match-ups, they're all winnable at top level. (What's his worst match-up besides MK? D3? Snake's win that all the time, Olimar? A Snake just challenged an Olimar to a $100 MM, they're obviously not that bad).
 
Attila_

Attila_

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Marth has one bad matchup, and he's barely top five.

Like I said, the game isn't that simple.

Snake has exploitable weaknesses, and they're huge. No high tier gets juggled the way he does, or has worse shield options.

That being said, no character has his defensive pressure potential, either. Thing is, to keep this up without dropping your guard to really hard, to the point where snake doesn't do well in nationals.

The tier list is based on potential, not necessarily on current ability.

:phone:
 
asianaussie

asianaussie

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Yeah, tier lists = potential, so they take huge strengths into account far more than huge weaknesses. It just so happens that the top few characters will often have few weaknesses, if any.

There's this flawed attitude going around where people will, after seeing a tier list, only consider high tier characters' strengths when talking about matchups briefly. In that vein, they'll mostly be considering lower tiered characters' weaknesses. When you can look at both sides without being biased by a tier list you didn't help create - that's when you can call yourself a reasonable player (or at least theorycrafter).

Sure, a character might theoretically have great matchups etc, but it just takes a good opponent or a careless mistake to get past that and abuse those weaknesses. High tiers can easily have weaknesses that are exploitable. A single weakness can make a matchup. Kirby vs Link in 64 is heavily Kirby-slanted in smaller stages, but Link-slanted in large stages, purely because Kirby can be camped hard. Even on smaller stages, if Kirby is careless enough to be knocked off, Link gets a stock. In terms of the tier list, Kirby is second, Link is third-last.

I don't even know what people are arguing about atm
 
Remastered

Remastered

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Ghost is right, Luke. Regardless of what yourself and Attila think.

So a character like Marth makes you work hard for the win, atleast it's still winnable. Snake has no bad MU's, never has, and most likely never will, given how late in the metagame we are now.

Play Luigi if you want a character to winge about legitimately, I might just listen to it then. Atleast 7 MU's worse then 70:30.

Anyway can we drop this dicussion out of the QLD PR thread. Cheers.
 
Attila_

Attila_

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funny how low/mid level players think they understand the metagame of other characters better than high level players who main them.

obviously i know nothing about the game.

snake loses to marth though, and you cant debate this. both boards agree, and not a single high level player from either side disagrees with this.
 
J-Birds

J-Birds

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@Snake has no bad MU's, never has
i lol'd

I think what is trying to be said, is that yes snake has disadvantageous but they arent bad enough for the better player not to be able overcome and win the majority of the time.
55/45 and 60/40 matchups are quite winnable by playing better than your opponent
none of his matchups are auto loss, but when they are unknown to you, they feel much harder than they really are.
 
xXArrowXx

xXArrowXx

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the better player wins :O
cant i just play a better character and win ;)
snake so standard. u camp and pressure the error.
alot of people cant handle the nade pressure, and say snake is good =P
 
Remastered

Remastered

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This is exactly what we are trying to say J-birds, no MU is unwinnable for Snake. <<<< This isn't a matter of experience or who is better at the game, it's a true fact. You can ***** and winge all you like, but Snake is not a bad character. I can't believe there is even a debate about this when he has been a top 3 character for what 4 years or so now????

Regardless of your opinion Attila, I can and have beaten you, so technically speaking I should know just as much as you by that logic. Attempts to disregard opinion due to lack of skill at a game is a pretty sad ploy tbh.
 
Attila_

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i'm sorry, how many nationals have you won? how long has it been since you lost a tournament?

our of our 5 pools matches, you've won 1. you haven't lasted in bracket long enough to play me at either of the tournaments we've both attended.

nor do you use snake in high level play at all, let alone for the past 3 years.

don't even try.

i never said snake had unwinnable mus, but he does have hard ones. this is what i said.

and i can disregard opinions, if they come from bad players. funnily enough, good players probably have a pretty good understanding of the game. espc when it comes to their own character.

/rant/

whatever, i'm done in this thread. ignorance alone is ok, but when combined with arrogance, really pisses me off.
 
Remastered

Remastered

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The fact that you mentioned arrogance made me lol.

Anyway, now that 'Captain (I'm right, you're wrong *fingers in ears* lalalalala) Ego' is gone. I have decided to have the next Luigi's Dungeon tournament on the 19th November 2011.

I am expecting a pretty decent turnout for this one, given that 9 people from Animania have messaged me back showing very decent interest. This probably only means 2 will show up, but eh heres hoping they are keen.

I will do up my usual Luigi Banner for the LD thread soon. How is the PR image coming along Leish??
 
CaLibUr_1337

CaLibUr_1337

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J-Birds said:
@Snake has no bad MU's, never has
i lol'd

I think what is trying to be said, is that yes snake has disadvantageous but they arent bad enough for the better player not to be able overcome and win the majority of the time.
55/45 and 60/40 matchups are quite winnable by playing better than your opponent
none of his matchups are auto loss, but when they are unknown to you, they feel much harder than they really are.
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^^^^^^ This x100

All this arguing started because (I'm pretty sure) someone said Snake is bad which then sparked rage from players that use characters below A tier because they have to deal with worse or more negative MU's

Moral of the story is Snake does have fairly easy exploitable weaknesses but he is still a great character. Also people shouldn't be disregarding what Attila and Luke have to say when it comes to a character they main and have a lot of experience with.

However

While I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular here, if a Snake main does start whinging about his weaknesses then be prepared for people who main characters from B tier and below to tell you to grow a pair.
 
J-Birds

J-Birds

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Oh no the melee tournament is on the 19th as well i guess i wont be able to attend the brawl one, bah what a shame!
 
Remastered

Remastered

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Really the only day I could do it for 2 months sorry guys. Didn't even realise it was the melee tourney date too. Were you going to come to the brawl tourney anyway J-birds? Maybe for some Yugioh atleast ;).
 
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