Okay. Here we go.
J, I’d like to ask you to refrain from comment to this stuff until after Jerkus has read it. I say this because I’d like a pow-wow of my own; you said I got some one on one time, but I can’t think of any point where that was the case. So I’m flashing that card now. Say whatever you want after Jerkus ducks back in, but in the meantime, just pop a chill pill and wait. Please.
So, Jerkus. I’m going to be very blunt. I think you’ve got a little man in the back of your mind telling you to be wary of me. The little man doesn’t see this game; he just has peripheral vision. He knows I have a reputation as one of the best players on the site (I hate saying things like this, but sometimes it becomes relevant). He knows that I have hard to match argumentative and investigative talents. He worryingly tells you to watch out, for the way this lylo appears may simply be a glassblown illusion crafted by me through greater mafia experience and capabilities. The evil one batters the just but weaker opponent to the ground through might and skill, but not the righteous high-ground. Something like that, anyway.
And he cites examples. Recent ones. Frozenflame in the game that doesn’t exist comes to mind. And you were, in all likelihood, just doing it in the same game. This mismatch scenario of the skillful bad guy and the sloppier good guy has inevitably been on your mind, and the little ****** dude in the back of your brain has seen all that go on. Hell, we even have you manipulating me a little in that game we didn’t play because it doesn’t exist, probably building from the foundation of the fact that we think kind of alike. And so he’s yelling at you to worry about that happening.
It seems like it’s “reasonable doubt”. Just you looking out for a spooky scenario. But I fully believe, based on the general meta of those gathered here toDay and based on the recent happenings in our game that doesn’t exist, that this little man has been inflating himself. Exerting himself, polluting a true and impartial vacuum. And it’s making you more likely to chase shadows. More likely to rule out a favorable vibe at any given junction. More likely to punish mistakes that could be made from any vantage point. More likely to glaze over mitigating details.
And most distressingly, more likely to make excuses for bad guy behavior by the other camp.
I don’t think you can deny that this is affecting your judgment on at least some level. It must. It’s too ingrained into the current state of the game, and another game that doesn’t exist. And the difference between this and the similar concern J raised is a big one – with J you’re looking for a specific tactic he has done as scum that worked on you. There is precedent for the behavior you sweat from the player you sweat it about.
On the other hand, with what I’ve described above, I’m just placed at a handicap of circumstance. A general worry of scenario that doesn’t have much of anything to do with me other than that I am good at the game. And as a result, you
will be more likely to discard my arguments (however much they may bamboozle you initially), and you
will be more likely to react more forgivingly to scummy behavior from J. On some level, you’ll even look for reasons to do both. I
feel it happening, even as you stress your impartiality at every step (and I certainly believe you’re trying).
How many times have you paved over off-kilter behavior from J toDay? That’s not rhetorical, I’ll go into it later, but right now I do want you to reflect on it. You’ve made several posts today with an allusion somewhere in them about how J has done a scummy something-or-other,
BUT. The “but” might manifest itself as an actual conjunction in your grammar. Or it might take on a more insidious form, like you coaxing J to play better.
No matter what has transpired, you’ve been consistently moving toward the Little Man’s conclusion all Day. I hope this little preface has given you pause. I don’t know what kind. Maybe you don’t agree at all. But I hope it’s at least given you an awareness of something I don’t think you were considering before now.
Right then. On widdit.
Jerkus said:
I brought this up before, and you responded, but it remains worth noting—if J is scum, the smartest thing he could have done last Night would have been to kill me, not Ryu.
Taking all things at face value, yes. Red Ryu was on his side. I do not deny this.
But I really think you’re neglecting the state of things at the time. If there’s one thing I don’t think your post does justice to, it’s context. Intricacy. As I said, WIFOM has its place in mafia, and if I can think of any scenario than this one, I’ll eat every hat I own. And I’ll fill them with onions first. I hate onions.
Really consider this. First of all, if Red Ryu were alive right now, the same argument could be made. That’s the most basic point I’m going to make. Let’s go deeper (BWAURRMMMMMM). Bear with me; my thoughts are going to bounce around a bit, because my head is literally
bursting with **** I need to say about this and a lot of it intertwines.
I know I said this before. But maybe if I say it again you’ll consider it with more of a vengeance, or something. You tend to be more steadfast in your convictions than Red Ryu. That’s a big point. I don’t know if this is your first game with RR or what your history is with him, but just trust me on this one. It is fact. RR waffles back and forth on a regular basis with most reads, in every single game he plays. On D3 he had me as least likely to be scum of the Unclear Trio. That was from being one of the three scum, with you and Gandhi – and all I had to do was find the time to be active. By the end of the day, after I’d pushed the **** out of Gandhi, RR agreed that any notion of EEscum was now gone. How hard would it be for me to argue him back into that spot? As either alignment?
Not only does RR flipflop like crazy, but as I said, he can be bullied, bamboozled, won over, you name it. You can get under RR’s skin with a certain skillset, and I outmeasure all of these skills when standing against J. I may have started in a gutter, but don’t forget that I started in a gutter with you too (and would have even if RR was somehow alive, or something, based on your D4 posts near the end. More on that in a bit). And I’d just have to win over a weaker townie that’s susceptible to my particular skillset. That doesn’t sound favorable to you? Well, let me keep going. I’m not even close to done, bub.
Here’s a big one; the reasons RR was on me were
horrible. Absolutely
horrible. It was as plain as day. I knew it. J knew it. I assume you knew it but that’s irrelevant. If I lived to D5 and had to answer to Red Ryu, how hard of a time do you seriously imagine me having going up against acid trip fantasyland accusations like mafia usurper, or that I’d been “sitting in a corner going Gheb is scum Gheb is scum Gheb is scum”? Especially when you’d be dead, flipped town, and actually
did do that. Especially when I am the reason we didn’t quicklynch Gheb in the first place. Especially… well, I digress. You get the idea.
Let’s be real. The foundations of RR’s suspicions were ****. Anything RR would dig up I could probably knock down with a yawn. You had said you were leaning on me, and solidly. You didn’t tip your hand to the rest of the table, but RR did. RR didn’t have diddly ****. He didn’t even have two of a kind. Man, he didn’t even have a chance at high card. J
knew this, because RR
broadcasted it. But he also knew that you are a hefty baker’s dozen times the player Red Ryu is. That means that, wrong or not, you were going to have actual, substantial suspicions. The kind he could build upon. The kind that would take a serious investment of time and effort to dismantle – if I could even do it.
Let’s get to another point. For all I’ve said about RR (you could probably make a pretty funny highlight reel of me calling him dumb and stuff throughout our games together), he’s not
incompetent. I do think he’d try to give lylo due diligence. Hell, he said he’d “look at EE vs J tomorrow”. While he encouraged you not to auto-assume I was town, I think it’s pretty clear he wasn’t auto-assuming I was scum, either. He had expressed a lean, same as you. It was just a bit steeper. But I can totally roll boulders uphill. I do it pretty often.
I think I’ve explained at length why needing to convince RR would be friendlier to my abilities. As town I’d have my argumentative skill and the power of THE TROOF to drive me, and RR
would listen. I’m confident of that. As scum I’d need to convince a townie that is vulnerable to my strengths. On the other hand, as a considerably superior player, you would be more likely to see through my bull ****. And BSing is the name of the game for this lylo’s scum (more on THAT later, dear god).
So let’s look at the tail end of D4.
RR asks why Gheb said the game is lost in P2682. J
immediately swooped in to answer for Gheb, stating that Gheb thinks I’m scum over J and you think I’m town over J. I am very confident that he was fishing for your feelings on it. It’s a subtle fish, because he’s talking to someone that’s not you about a comment made by someone that’s not you. But there was nothing gained by answering the question for Gheb other than making damn sure the question was tabled before the issue went cold.
You didn’t provide a satisfactory answer, but you did admit to repeated flipflopping.
Later, when J was still stallin’ on the Gheb lynch, you said this in p2716:
Jerkus said:
J, if I promise to lynch EE toMorrow, in the impossible event that there even is a toMorrow, will you help me lynch Gheb toDay? I know Gheb is scum. I can feel it in my freaking bones.
Remember that J, as scum, knows that Gheb will not flip anything of the sort. He offers up this cheeky response:
J said:
@Circus: Now why are you lying to me w.r.t. you would lynch EE over myself for my vote?
That’s a hard fish. He’s matching your cheekiness with his own cheekiness, while cornering you to answer the question. And, just, look at that stilted phrasing, seriously. I’ve mentioned that before. And I’ll soon be keeping my promise to go into that whole aspect of scumJ in general, but never mind that for now. Just look at it. He makes sure it’s
absolutely clear that he’s saying “Jerkus would lynch EE over J for a Ghebvote” is a lie. But he says it cheekily. So he’s totally not fishing.
He’s definitely not deciding whom he wants to kill in any of the scenarios that could unfold from here.
And you, of course, answered:
Jerkus said:
Answer: I'm not. My mind has gradually changed on which one of you I like better over the course of this Day. I still think he's town, because I ****ing know Gheb is scum, but I'm leaning EE over you now, relatively solidly. I would still give you both a fair shake at making some closing arguments for yourselves and against each other or whatever, but I'm feeling EE more as time goes on.
Does that
seriously look significantly better to you than Red Ryu? After all I’ve said? You’ve both said you’ll look into things toMorrow (you say this later I think), and you both said you’re leaning EE over J. I truly feel I’ve displayed that you’re a better endgame candidate already – earlygame be damned.
Lastly before I bring up the elephant in the room, there’s the fact that J comes into D5 with leverage. You pushed Gheb’s lynch hard. J, on the other hand, was trying to turn it all around at the very end. Because he’s a watchful guardian. The hero we whatever gibberish. A dark knight. This isn’t the kind of leverage that would be mentioned, of course. It’d just kinda hang over everything like a fog. Would you really lynch two people in a row that were shrieking of their townieness, and my evil? This doesn’t apply nearly as well to Red Ryu because he was a backseatsman on that lynch. You were
certain.
And yeah. WIFOM time.
Take everything I just said, and add in the fact that the immediate assumption upon seeing that you’re still alive, even without ANY of that, is “haha EE’s trying to buddy his way to the finish line, you’re so dead, scum, you scummy scum, u so scum y”. Add all of the above and, well. With odds like that, all J has to do is keep things on an even keel and he glides right on to the win.
It’s funny. About a week ago or so, Tom and I were reminiscing about DGames stuff. He linked me to an old thread. He posted it just shy of two years ago, and one of his posts in it resonated with me. I want you to read this post. It’s short.
Clicky
As I said before, WIFOM has its place in mafia. With all the possible-to-miss factors I mentioned above and the fact that your immediate response to being alive was to put me deeper in the gutter, can you really shake
all of that away? Look at this situation. You’re asking the most obvious questions to ask when you see Red Ryu’s corpse. And most importantly, it’s not like you
came around to asking these questions, after a lot of indepth questioning and analysis. You asked these questions in your
first post of the Day, and then kicked me down the ditch. Your first post. Reflect on that. Think about what I’ve said.
Like I said, man. If you take everything at face value, even marginally good scum will trounce town. Every time.
This all comes back to intricacies and context. And how I feel you’re not doing them justice right now.
Jerkus said:
He is right to say that you have been buddying me all game
I addressed this in one of my big posts to some extent, but I’ll break it down in agonizing detail. Hopefully not as agonizing as the last thing. But you’re letting J paint a huge, sweeping generalization over an entire game’s worth of play. And ignoring so much **** along the way.
The first time I mentioned you (ctrl+F for Jerkus), it was to point out something I didn’t like.
I wanted to see your reaction.
After I TLDR’d my post with this:
EE said:
The basic thesis of that post is that I think Choice and Axel are scummy as all **** but not on a scumteam.
Your response? Simply “Yup.”
You then offered this addendum:
Jerkus said:
Although, like, half of the people in this game could fall down respective manholes and I wouldn't mind.
Although I’d pointed out something I didn’t like, you didn’t bring it up, presumably because you knew it was something minor that didn’t merit a discussion. And yet you showed that you’d read what I had to say, and agreed in a forthright manner that didn’t seem scummy, even if Choice or J were to turn up scum.
Simply put, you made a good first impression. And so I kept watch as always, but didn’t mention you again. For a very long time. Because that’s what I do with my closet town reads; ignore them.
Is this your barometer for buddying? I said you raised a valid point because I don’t pus
syfoot around saying where my points come from, and I don’t parrot. I didn’t make the observation that you did initially, but I felt uneasy about it, and then I saw you make a post that raised a concern I agreed with. Thus I asked the town, and expanded on the observation you made by noting Laundry’s behavior after. Is this seriously how you measure buddying? Would you have preferred that I parroted? No, I’m pretty sure we’d be talking about how you pressured Laundry and then I just came in and pretended I noticed it on my own.
And I mean. ****, man. I’d have been doing that with other townies too. Problem is I’ve only been noticing their good observations now that they’re dead and I know who the last scum is. Mentioning you and your point was an observational detail to clarify and further what I was saying. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I mentioned you peripherally here but I really want to believe you don’t think
that’s buddying, unless I was supposed to say that Laundry’s interactions with NO ONE IN PARTICULAR were bad.
I forgot about this one. But I’ll answer to it. I started the day looking at Laundry, and then he made that whiny dumb-*** post. What should I have said? I sincerely did want to see how he would clarify what he said, but I pretty much just thought it was scummy and spin doctory all around. Again, you were just a peripheral detail. But I guess you could see this one as a chainsaw. I don’t know. Pick your poison, I guess, but I feel that I’m showing this whole NONSTOP BUDDYING FROM DAY ONE ALL DAY ERR DAY accusation to be very overblown.
And this is where it actually “starts”, arguably. Shouldn’t my surprise in this post indicate that any buddying you might have seen before was subconscious? Come on, man. I’m good at mafia, but I’m not so good that can recall minutia like that in the tapestry of my posts off memory and produce a perfectly tinkered little answer like that. And even I wouldn’t reread myself just for a simple question like that.
As far as I knew at the time, I’d never said a direct thing about you other than in my first big post. And this is where the “buddying” starts. In reality, it’s me being questioned about how I feel about you. And then it gets questioned again, and again. And it’s pushed as a scumteam again, and again. I wasn’t left much damned choice BUT to talk to you. And don’t you find it even a little suspect that it’s
J that started that cycle? And that the only real signs of my town read thus far were that I agreed with your observations on Laundry and acted accordingly? And now it’s J, here in lylo, arguing that I’ve been buddying you since the very start?
Yeah, I got a bit buddier towards the end. But when there’s only one person who trusts me, that I trust, and whose
judgment I trust, I tend to do that. What’s the crime? You didn’t get carte blanche until after the cop cleared you and I reread the game and everything still lined up. It’s not like I didn’t put you up to any scrutiny. I just didn’t narrate it.
Jerkus said:
(and in fact, so did Afro. And Washed started doing it too, on D2).
Gonna keep this one short – they buddied me too. And “they” includes J. There were a few times I pointed out where they might have been planting a kernel to pounce on me later (I know Gandhi did this kind of thing at least once or twice). Other than that, they just buddied me. I’ve shown this. I’ve even shown you J asking one of them about the other and me, specifically. And they responded in the exact same manner for both.
Does this seem like the kind of **** I’d allow? Have you considered that my early inactivity woes and their buddying me consistently throughout the game makes me a perfect lylo fall guy? And yes. They did it to you too. That doesn’t seem like a smear campaign? Doesn’t it seem weird to you that of the three potential powerhouse townies (you, me, Gheb) the only one they went after (once they realized your potential and unwillingness to take bull****) was the one who couldn’t even express himself flatly fully? That J tried to buddy me into his corner with Gheb? That Gandhi buddied me wrt Gheb in much the same way?
That’s all I’ll say for now, I guess. But come on man.
Jerkus said:
You have also managed to not be on a single correct lynch all game, despite having allegedly been suspicious of both Washed and Afro well before they met their ends. Actually, the only lynch you've been apart of all game was Gheb's, when you hammered him.
This is a completely unfair point, imo.
Can you
seriously look at D3 and tell me that I was gunning for ANYBODY but Gandhi? As I’ve said, again and again and again and again, I was the first person to start zeroing in on Gandhi for actual, substantive points. And then I confirmed that I had finished rereading and
wanted to lynch Gandhi while Gheb and J were both still voting for you and pushing you. And then I set to drafting a case for it, during which time Gheb unvoted but that was all that changed.
When I FoS’d him I specifically said that
it would be a vote as soon as we’re ready to end the Day. It was early yet. It was also
ridiculously clear where I stood, and that the ONLY reason I wasn’t voting for Gandhi was to prevent quickhammers. That I wanted to hear what others had to say. What. Do you think the lynch was gonna magically turn around on someone else? Who? The only other lynch candidate at that point of D3 was you, and I’d keenly walled off that possibility. And if the argument isn’t that I would personally assist another lynch, can you honestly see any other avenues opening after my spat with Gandhi? You weren’t going to vote for yourself, and I obviously wasn’t going to vote for you. For you to get lynched literally everyone else would have to be on board, and RR had said you were low on his radar because of the cop clear. Choice seemed to believe it. Odds of both of them voting for you? Somewhere between “snowball in hell” and “jack ****.”
So, do you want to tell me where and how I was trying to get you lynched, get someone other than you lynched, or trying to passively allow any non-Gandhi lynch?
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Maybe I said I didn’t want to vote because of quickhammer likelihood because
I didn’t want to vote because of quickhammer likelihood. And guess what happened? J voted for him (AFTER my case, and AFTER his response, and AFTER I said I don’t like his claim and still wanted to lynch him), and
he got quickhammered. And the quickhammer was
scummy. And it was one of the main catalysts for a D4 mislynch. And yes, I know I said self-hammer at the time. But it should be pretty clear I would be concerned by any kind of quickhammering, especially since when Gheb did it he looked ridiculously scummy. Desperate scumbuddy busing kinda scummy.
I think if you reread D3 again you’ll see that it’s my case that really, truly makes Gandhi the center of attention, and his reponse to it. The Day shifted at that point from a bunch of people playing mafia and also occasionally tossing a barb at Gandhi to everyone circling him and rubbing their hands together expectantly.
I’d expect a point like that from J, man. But you, Jerkus? Really? That lynch belonged as much to me as it did to anyone on the final tally. It’d be one thing if you wanted to argue a bus (though a bus without a vote is a bit strange – why would I care about quickhammers, at the expense of getting in while the getting’s good?) But to see you try to take Gandhi’s lynch away from me is literally outrageous. What the ****, dude. Here’s the score. I think after my case and especially Gandhi’s responses, it was clear to J that he was going down, and so he got his vote in there because he surmised that Gheb wouldn’t be far. And then he snowed me out of my own lynch. And it’s
working. And it pisses me off.
I’ll give you Laundry, I guess. There’s not a hell of a lot to say to that -- but I will say a couple things. When I said I was rereading the game near the end of D2, I really did. It killed me, but I read the whole damn thing in a sitting. I decided to sleep on it rather than talk out of my *** for the sake of talking. I’d left myself plenty of time to make a decision and push it. When I woke up, Laundry had outed himself with a gambit, got cc’d, and got quicklynched. Does being on a QL of scum that
outed himself with a gambit that got cc’d seriously dispense credibility these days?
That lynch was a freebie. If people had immediately honed in on and started dogpiling him after Choice’s claim, and Soup just claimed like a dumb-***, that’d be one thing. But only Soup voted for him in that interim, while Choice started to zero in. Laundry sensed his doom and made an obvscum gambit to draw out the doc, and it worked, and then he got dogpiled to death.
If you wanna get technical, with how things played out, we’re really all on the same terms with his death. Laundry lynched himself. Note that I’m not saying we’re on the same terms with Laundry
in general. You pushed him at the right times and for the right reasons. I’ve said that before. J pushed him cautiously, without a vote, and followed you onto him after you eviscerated his OMGUS. And then he wasn’t around for the actual lynch. I was inactive, and I’ll say more on that later.
But at the end of the day, because of the conditions that gave birth to it, Laundry’s death really doesn’t prove anything one way or another. Nothing between Soup’s cc and Laundry’s flip can be indicative, because all voting for Laundry in that timeframe proves is that you 1) Were online at the time and 2) Have at least a scrape of common sense, regardless of your alignment.
J was “on” Laundry a whole bunch D1, then he ended up on Gorf’s lynch. Then he was “on” Gandhi AND Laundry, and then he wasn’t. And then Laundry got lynched and the Day ended with J’s vote on you. Then J pushed you on D3 (more on that later) and after Gandhi became the true center of attention amidst the deadlock, he switched rails, and Gheb quickhammered. I got muscled out of the lynch I pushed harder than anybody else, and yes, I’m going to keep ****ing saying that.
Then he was on Gheb when he was a Sure Thing lynch. That train stopped because of me. It was my decision not to end the game. For better or for worse, I am the reason we had such a long D4. Then J just waved back and forth in the wind, and ultimately settled against the tide.
How’s that for hard evidence?
Jerkus said:
Actually, the only lynch you've been apart of all game was Gheb's, when you hammered him.
I didn’t hammer him.
I don’t know what that’s worth, but I didn’t hammer him. I put him at L-1.
Jerkus said:
Reading your posts in a vacuum actually makes you look pretty nice because you do express suspicion of Washed and Afro at a few key parts in the game, which is part of what has made it so easy for me to trust you up to this point. But when including posts from Washed and Afro as well, it becomes interesting how they both seem to almost completely avoid you. You managed to talk about them, but rarely talked to them (and never voted for either of them. Talk about softball).
I feel I’ve covered things wrt their interactions with me. And I think that makes a huge difference.
But there’s more to answer to here. So, this seems like the perfect time to talk about my activity. Or, rather, my inactivity. I’m surprised how little this seems to enter into things, since you saw the same inactivity (or leapfrogging inactivity) in the game that doesn’t exist. But let me keep it short and sweet; this game was moving way, way,
way too fast for me. D1 was like 50 god damn pages. It’s still more than half the entire thread. D2, somehow, wasn’t a whole hell of a lot slower.
Look at my posts from a new perspective: Someone with an exhaustive playstyle that’s trying to catch up, but can’t
keep up. Think about my voting style in other games. How often do I vote when something first catches my eye? Almost
never. It takes seriously scummy **** to pull my vote with that kind of ease if I’m not doing some kind of test or gambit.
If I don’t know what I’m doing, I don’t vote. If I don’t know what I’m doing, I read up, and presumably reread. At which point, I hopefully know what I’m doing. But whenever I would try this for the first two games, there’d be pages and pages to check. Every time. There was too much “doing” to DO. And not enough time to DO it. Tack on a second game, and… come on. But I tried to do it. I kept making time to be there when it counted (end of the Day), and the Day would end during my brief absence. Seriously, man. You’re butt-****ing me with a dildo made of circumstance.
D3 was much more my speed. Less people in this game, less people in the one that doesn’t exist. And it shows, I think. Seriously, reread D3 with what I’ve told you. You’ve read it with J’s… “take” on it. If it can be so called. Now read it with mine. I was
in that ****. I questioned people, pressured a couple people – mainly Gheb and Gandhi – and then I dropped one person (Gheb) and zeroed in on scum (Gandhi). How are you seriously not seeing this? How are you crediting J with the big swing? But I’ll touch on that later.
I talked about them? So what? Sometimes I talk about people. Sometimes I talk to them. Did I make ****ty little insubstantial comments? No, I don’t think I did. Did I ask them a lot of direct questions? Eh. Probably not. But I didn’t ask Ryker or Gorf (m)any direct questions that I can recall. Yet I DID talk ABOUT them. Are they my scumbuddies?
I’m quite certain I showed you examples of Wash and Gandhi dancing around each other in much the same way as J and Wash, and Gandhi and J.
Look. I don’t think you really get my playstyle. So I hope you’ll listen to this. I don’t ask questions of everyone, all the time. And I don’t ask people questions to pressure them – almost ever. Sometimes I’ll offer up a loaded question, if anything. Generally, what I do is build the paper trail. In the meantime, I watch for preposterous scummy behavior, and I’ll start to move in, and if it keeps up, then I’ll strike. Otherwise, I build things up, then when it comes down to it I reread up and make a decision. I build the paper trail by talking about people or two people – it doesn’t matter. I talk about things in the manner that I think will get other people talking in interesting ways either to me or about others or to each other. If you’re the only guy manning the spotlight the cockroaches know exactly where to hide, gnomesayin?
As for softballs, well. If I’d been able to keep up, things would have been different. That’s really all I can say. I doubt you want me to go into what I’d have done at X time, but I’ll say for what it’s worth that I thought Gandhi was town at the end of D1 and for the start and then a good portion of D2. He didn’t grab my attention until I reread near the end of D2, and I probably wouldn’t have pushed his lynch since Laundry hadn’t flipped yet. Laundry was just constantly perplexing because I thought he was scummy as **** sometimes on D1, but then the next time I’d get back, things have moved on and he’s gotten a bit better – just not quite as scummy as the next guy on the block, I guess you could say. My best example is when I said I’d be down with his lynch on D1. I just wanted to reread – ah, but of course, by the time I got around to it things had moved on.
My playstyle just didn’t work for the amount of time I had to invest on D1-2, and I got ****ed for it. I had more time on D3, and the game moved at a more reasonable pace. It made all the difference.
Jerkus said:
Put another way, your assessment of the way Washed and (to a lesser extent) Afro have each individually interacted with J is interesting, but the way Washed and Afro (do not) interact with each other seems like the most solid foundation on which to judge scumbuddy interactions on the whole. In that regard, I can draw more parallels between the interactions of you/Washed/Afro, all together, than I can between J/Washed/Afro.
Well, there’s nothing much I can say to that except that I disagree. Gandhi pressured Laundry, but then made sure nothing came of it. These kinds of interactions were prevalent and persistent when you include J as part of the whole. On the other hand I feel you and I have a lot more in common wrt how the two of them treated us. And J buddied the hell out of me too, while being on your ***. For flavor, I guess.
Jerkus said:
In fact, your unshaken faith in me, as much as I would normally appreciate it, makes you look scummier on D3 than J's suspicion of me does. Scum knew that Afro was the Godfather. From Jscum's perspective, what would be the benefit of expressing suspicion of me, post-Cop clear, before finally deciding to switch to Afro immediately after his claim when he knows that Afro's flip is going to fully clear me? EEscum has much more incentive to commit to his Circus town read beyond a shadow of a doubt (despite the fact that I really could have been the Godfather, even though it wasn't statistically the most likely option)
I thought Gheb was using J, but it turns out another cigar is just another cigar. J was trying to get you lynched. I think you underestimate just how important this was to scum on D3. Ballsy towns lynch people with megaprotown claims or some kinds of clears or what have you all the time, if they make a case for enough scumminess. So lynching you was absolutely possible. And that’s my point. J was trying to get you lynched. He wasn’t just expressing suspicions of you for the hell of it prior to the switch.
Look at the deft hand with which he votes for you. At first he’s following RR and you onto Gandhi. Then he follows Gheb onto you (but it’s to put you both at L-2, of course, don’t take that as a sign of him trying to sway the momentum or anything!!!!)
And then Gheb pushes you hard, and J pushes you
harder, badgering every post you make. Meanwhile I’m zeroing in on Gandhi.
But let’s look at this. Your lynch would mean
everything to scum. That takes it to lylo. They have two bodies and two votes to work with. More importantly, they have padding. They can execute a greater amount of subterfuge to set up the endgamer. And going ML bus ML is a hell of a lot smoother and easier than bus ML ML. And that’s all without mentioning the oh-so-sexy, oh-so-likely possibility of Choice investigating Gandhi. Then they could kill the other clear, RR. Or if Choice didn’t look like he was gonna play ball, they could take him out.
Perhaps most importantly, your mislynch on D3 was a window that was going to shut come D4. Period. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Act now! Call a representative for a free brochure. You were getting mislynched D3 or not at all because Gandhi was the Other Lynch.
Your lynch was what scum wanted on D3.
But REALLY look at the state of things after my case, man. Gandhi was on the stage in front of the red curtain, and he was choking. He couldn’t remember his lines. He was peeing his pants, like that kid from Magnolia. You could smell it, even though he tried oh so madly to hide his legs behind the podium. That motha****a was goin’
down.
So J plays it out textbook style: He says he doesn’t like his claim, doesn’t like his responses, and shivs the vote in. He can bite the bullet toMorrow; Gandhi’s flip allows him to disengage his pressure on you without really justifying the act of doing so. It’s just the only real play to make. Gandhi was going down, and being That Guy that defied it (remember, Gheb had unvoted and J’s vote was still on you) come D4 would have been a
guaranteed loss.
And so J pops in on D4 and is sure to get his vote on Gheb before he’s at L-1. Jerkus, you later credited J with having the opportunity to quickhammer Gheb. I say he didn’t. He’d been going back and forth all day, and a sudden flip or ramping up of pressure, or hammering, would definitely have been the death of him toDay. I think there was only one person still alive that could have quickhammered Gheb and gotten away with it -- me, at the very start. There’d have been no discussion. No argument.
Posts like 2681 make it clear J was still very much willing to jump on and lynch gheb if the opportunity presented itself. If J is playing to his emotions, why is he threatening Gheb while mitigating the threat in the same breath? Shouldn’t he be as cold and needling as possible? Look at this post!
And in P2689, after the Event, J is almost hilariously hypocritical throwing a point up against me, but in the same post, saying he’s not going to push it until I’m feeling better. Ah, but he WILL mention it before I’m feeling better. Y’know, to execute some FUD. Cool story bro.
Most importantly, we wouldn’t have gotten to see J slither around and try to play Gheb and I against each other. He managed to position himself until it became “EE or Gheb”, instead of “EE or Gheb or J”. But nothing had really changed. It was still pretty much “Gheb, except people are occasionally talking about EE”. But Gheb was at my throat enough to draw my ire and narrow my suspicions from a tunnel to a pinhole. And Gheb got lynched, and J’s hands were off. That was the only way to play an extended D4; get us fighting, then be on the other side of the tracks when hammer dropped.
And it happened.
Jerkus said:
since EEscum already knows that Afro's the Godfather and then cleared Circustown will probably hand hold him to victory. And, as I stated in the beginning, I have to believe that's the only reason that I'm still here talking to you now. Look, I've come full circle! I'm gettin' pro wit dis ****.
You’ve come full circle, and now have I, coming back to stuff I’ve addressed. So I think it’s time to end this ****in’ thing.
I don’t think I’ll be posting any more today. It’s a work day, I’ve spent like 10-12 damn hours on this post and my brain is absolute mush. Please consider that courteously when it comes to structure and such. I’m sure it won’t be my cleanest post, but it’s definitely my heartiest, I think. I dunno, I might say some more after I shower and ****, if I feel more aware and such.
And to "die scum" -- no I won't because I'm not you butthole.
