Pulp Fiction Mafia - Game over! - Mafia wins!

[#HBC | Dancer]

Vote Count

J (1) - Evil Eye
Evil Eye (1) - J
Circus ()

Not voting: Circus

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch!

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm not offering a deadline extension, sorry.

Well that's a shame. =/

Oh well. Guess that just means time to speed some things up.

 

[Circus]

Okay, but seriously, you guys should get whatever you have posted, like, as soon as possible. There's some stuff that I want to ask/say to you, but I don't want to do it until you guys have presented your ****.

I haven't done a full reread yet (there are a few exchanges that I specifically want to go back and find), but I did skim back through the early posts and am not coming up with anything revolutionary yet.

You guys need to start making some arguments against each other.

 

[Evil Eye]

Man that's some eerie ****. I was literally just comin' here to say this, heh.

So yeah, it's getting uncomfortably close to crunch time. With that said I'm just gonna try to get up my D1 stuff tonight and let you chew on my observations and whatnot while I try to plow through the rest. Trying to finish the whole load in one go just isn't feasible... and probably would only make it harder to digest.

@mod: Can we at least get, like, another day to make up for the nonstop ****ing bad gateways?

 

[Evil Eye]

Man that's some eerie ****. I was literally just comin' here to say this, heh.

So yeah, it's getting uncomfortably close to crunch time. With that said I'm just gonna try to get up my D1 stuff tonight and let you chew on my observations and whatnot while I try to plow through the rest. Trying to finish the whole load in one go just isn't feasible... and probably would only make it harder to digest.

@mod: Can we at least get, like, another day to make up for the nonstop ****ing bad gateways?

 

[Evil Eye]

Case in point: It took like five god damn minutes between clicking "post quick reply" and that post actually showing up, and there were two of 'em.

And that's pretty much the site's current barometer for when it is functioning.

 

[#HBC | J]

I was actually gonna come in here earlier and ask where you two were again but got distracted/didn't wanna annoy too much since I assume you both are busy on the weekends.

Circus, I'll have pretty much everything up tonight for ya. I've even made it simplistic instead of gargantuan.

 

[Evil Eye]

Alright. I really wanted to get this in last week because it is such a behemoth.

But it can't be helped. There is a lot to say. If I can, I will try to condense it down to its finest points soon. But the Day merited this degree of analysis because it was so god damned long. This might be the longest D1 ever in the history of SWF mafia, and as such analyzing its developments needs you to go above and beyond... as painful as it is.


So, I don't know. Read it. Read it in chunks if you have to. But they don't call me the wallmaster for nothing. I do not waste space.



Preface: There are a lot of reasons I didn’t make any bones about lynching J yesterDay, and that seems like as good a place as any to start. I’ll be as brief as I can; Gheb’s play was terrible, and J’s limitless fountain of activity after he stepped up properly had finally started to pollute my read of him in a favorable manner.

Did J do much of anything to deserve the lenience I granted him D4? Not really. Even then I expressed that my suspicions hadn’t really gone anywhere, but been affected greatly by Gheb’s deteriorating play. This remains true, but I must admit that J’s willingness to throw himself every which way, building up various connections to the entire cast on any whiff of interesting play, had finally started to win over my gut. I’d say I’d really begun to feel like the jig was up and we had our bad guys pinned to the wall and our comrades labeled the moment I finished that umpteenth reread and started drafting my case on Gandhi – and these feelings were rather cemented when Gandhi flipped. Everything just fit so well. Gheb had to be scum. J, warts and all, had to be town, albeit of dubious quality.

But I looked the reality of ending D4 quickly in the eye, and I blinked. Why? Because I still had some meager doubts. Because I have never quickhammered, never had a sufficient reason to do so. Did I, here? I wondered on it, then ultimately decided – as I always seem to – that there’s never a sufficient reason to end a Day quickly.

And so I pledged to reread yet again, dreading it but still enthused. And then… well. You know. A certain event made the tedious game that is mafia become, to me, the most unpleasant thing that I would have to face in my daily grind. I had said I would reread this game, but you know what? I just couldn’t. I opened the thread a bunch of times, and it just sat there. Like a wall. There was no pushing through it, and no climbing it. I’m still struggling with that, but it’s getting better.

This brings me to the other side of the coin. Despite my philosophies about using a Day, if town has a mislynch and we’re in a non-mylo-near-endgame phase, with a clear candidate? More often than not, I can’t muster up the necessary f***s to give the game. My playstyle is draining even when I enjoy mafia. I may never reach a state in a game where I’ll just “rip off a bandaid” and continue, but if we have a “bandaid lynch” that seems like The Sure Thing and a ML to use, my attention will have a hard time pointing elsewhere. It’s a combination of those Sure Thing elements, my confidence in my own endgame abilities, the benefits of eliminating a costly mislynch before m/lylo, and the toll extensive mafiaing takes on my personal time and energy. It’s just so much easier to talk it out a while, ultimately rip off the bandaid after all, and brace for the battle of endgame. Hell. The exact same thing is happening in a game that doesn’t exist.

Take all that, add in The Event, spice heavily with Gheb’s awful D4 play and the fact that his D3 play was by far the worst of the remaining cast… and, well. Here we are. At the battle.

And battle we shall, J. Welcome to boner town.



For the sake of keeping this behemoth as short as possible, I will focus on new intricacies and quirks I notice as I go through, with all we’ve learned up to now. There will likely be some parallels to my old case on J. However, I’ll probably end up revisiting that old case, dusting it off, and seeing what I still stand by. I’ll even cross-reference it with J’s numerous defences.

Here we go.

An interesting thing to note before we begin is actually yet another another reason a Gheb lynch so vastly outprioritized the idea of lynching J. I mentioned J’s readiness to engage absolutely anyone. This included, of course, Laundry and Gandhi. For better or for worse, J was willing to dust it up with them and/or call them town without batting an eye. Gheb’s interactions, on the other hand, seemed so stilted and opportunistic. It was so much easier to accept Gheb as their scumbuddy… almost infinitely so, really.

But now that I’m faced with the luxury of that confirmation, I have found things. And they add up in such a strange manner. This will be explored in addition to regular ol’ garden variety scummy Jness.



DAY ONE


So. The infamous Wagon of Fun. We all know what it is by now, and it certainly caused us to exit RVS with a vengeance, if nothing else. To reiterate just so it’s freshly on the table, that wagon was basically borne of a skype call where there was a bit of a collective grumble about the Axel hydra, a little while before the game filled. Ryker quite gleefully stressed that he really did want to quicklynch them, while I bit my tongue and noted to myself that I should watch his execution of the wagon for scumminess, as he’d surely use the whole debacle to gain a mislynch as scum in SvT and then use the genesis of the Wagon as a shield D2. But that’s something I’ll go into in more detail another time.

The group assembled there consisted of, if memory serves, Ryker, Gorf, Laundry, Gheb, and myself.

So imagine my surprise when, oh so eagerly, Gandhi gets in on that action. Sure, early wagons are sexy and a great way to exit RVS. But this connection requires analysis when Gandhi has flipped scum and both Gheb and Ryker have basically flipped town.

Consider the implications. What’s Gandhi trying to do here? Fit in with townies, for starters. With J as a scumbuddy, does this not utterly maximize the ultimate gains? The third vote of an RVS wagon is what turns it from a couple of RVS votes into a wagon.

How would you have looked back on this if we lynched J D1 and he flipped scum? It’d probably look pretty good on Gandhi, right? Obviously Gandhi couldn’t be seen as having scumhunted, when Axel hasn’t properly posted, but would you expect this behavior from a scumbuddy? The first vote in a game often one you can make on absolutely anyone with zero consequences. Putting it on a scumbuddy is ballsy, and unnecessarily so.

And the same can point and conclusion can be drawn from the reverse. J ended up surviving D1. We lynched somebody else. If Gandhi were to be lynched in the future, this early connection would always be there, and inevitably distance them. J would look better. Especially if he’d played well up to that point. So, while you wouldn’t expect this behavior from a scumbuddy, the actual damage is so minimal and the potential gains so solid that it’s a damn good scum play.

This kind of stuff is the connection/disconnection manipulation scum yearn for. Add in the fact that Gandhi commented on the fluffiest and most nonthreatening possible thing to accompany his vote, rather than having anything to say about the comments he was following – mostly Gheb with his poem about a dream in the night and vultures, and Ryker’s completely awesome Commander Stryker picture which was basically a “wagon gogogo” post.

Yeah. It looks pretty softbally. And one of the number one things I look for in endgame rereads is scumbuddy softballs. But this doesn’t even compare to the softballs later on.

The best part is, Gandhi hops off onto Choice just a few posts later, at the first opportunity. X1 in particular loves to do this kind of crap. Get in a scumbuddy’s face a little bit, then swipe at lower-hanging town fruit later on. You know who else he did this with? Laundry. That whole metamorphosis was well-documented in my D3 case on Gandhi.

But let’s move on. There’s so much more to cover.

The Wagon gets on down to L-2. Axel posts “My oh my what a game so far.” Laundry replies “Is that all you’re going to do?” Choice asks him to clarify.

Axel.

And yes, I agree with your post. He's doing nothing to refute Gheb's claim nor really anything to suggest he's town. I don't get why he's too accepting of an impending quicklynch.

A few things of note.

1. He latches onto that whole fiasco about “Gheb’s claim” early. I still don’t know what the hell Gheb was thinking if that phrasing wasn’t a gambit, but this reaction is pretty telling, I think. We know Gheb was town, and we know Laundry was scum. Isn’t this exactly the kind of thing Laundry might say if he worried Gheb actually did have some kind of N0 ability? For the record, I think confirmation stage actions are totally batty, but they happen, and some people don’t share my feelings.

With that in mind, I mean, just look at that. He’s already in follow-the-cop mode, and think about the insane spoils he’d reap if scumJ got lynched from this. He also lightly buddies Choice in this post, whom we also know to have been town.

2. If J is town, what’s the percentage in this post? Laundry’s points have too much venom for the mere weight they’re carrying, and that would show on a reread if J were to be lynched and flip town. Transparent as glass, man. Laundry’s better than this. He’s selling himself too hard.

He’s selling himself here because he’s positioning. And because he’s trying to fit in with numerous townies here. And because he expects J to flip scum. I’m ****ing positive of this. There’s no gain here for SvT. There is every gain here for SvS.


Axel’s reply:

Gheb doesn't have an info on us. He just wants us dead because he has a slight distaste for both heads of this hydra's playstyles. So he thinks combined we are gonna be the biggest annoyance to him and thus it would be the best person to lynch D1 whether it be a scumlynch or a ML. He is also using said claim to bait reactions as well.

*shrug* There's nothing to worry about.

Doesn’t this post look pretty god damn strange when you reread and know that Gheb was town?

Fact: Gheb was town.

Fact: Gheb was pushing a probable quicklynch on Axel.

Fact: Gheb is a big ol’ scurry power player.

Fact: Axel has no problem with any of this, for some reason.


I believe I went into this a bit way back on D1. Well, now it looks so much stranger. Gheb is doing something that he should think is scummy. But he doesn’t. He’s chill.

Does that make sense to you for Axel-town? Oh, sure, Gheb’s trying to lynch us no matter what we are. Yeah, we’re at L-2 on what I’m describing a flimsy and yet legitimate lynch push and as such is pretty much preposterous bull ****. But it’s all goooood maaaaan. He’s just, like, trying to lyyynch meeee. No biiiiiiiig.

The rather baffling perspective he puts forth here also assumes immediately that Gheb is town. Slip?

Rather than point out everything I just did, Laundry sticks to stupider, easier to answer, and generally kinda scummy criticisms. Or rather, just one. ONE stupid, easy to ansy, generally kinda scummy criticism.

Gorf makes his scummy ol’ “somebody tell me what to ddddooooo” post. Axel votes him. Hey, it was understandable! At the time anyway! …but it’s hard not to suspect OMGUS and opportunism looking back on it now. Especially when Axel later says that they’ve made a SOLEMN PROMISE TO NEVER VOTE EVER without consulting the other head.

Laundry makes damn sure to get a comment in about that votepost… even if it’s a completely insubstantial comment. That points to nothing. About anything in particular. At all. Nor does it comment on the actual vote. Even though he’s pressuring J. But hey, at least he’s seen commenting on J!

Gorf asks to be told what to do. Ryker tells him, and then Laundry agrees. Bam, L-1.

It continues on a bit with some more Laundry fluff, Ryker doing his Night at the Roxbury Link “someone end him” thang. Axel AtE’s about the dumb town. Laundry reminds them that they “HAVE HAMMAH”.

Not only is Laundry just parroting Ryker with the ol’ “hammer yourself” schtick, but it’s again a great way to be seen pressuring someone. But does it really apply any pressure? Who’s gonna self-hammer a few hours into D1? ****in’ nobody, that’s who. No, not even J. Christ, not even Tandora. It’s empty, it’s got no HEART, man.

This whole bit kinda Abbot & Costellos itself for the rest of the page.

Nabe is town.
Gheb is town.
Ryker is scum.
Gord is scum.

Take my words as fact and good luck town.

Choice is probably scum too. He could just be noob though dunno.

In this post, Axel takes several concrete stances. They are pretty eyebrow raisin’. I’ve always thought so. But look at them now.

Gheb is town. Ding! Continuing from where he left off, Axel has already begun to buddy Gheb. This is much easier for scum to do than, y’know, questioning what was obviously faulty behavior – well, from his allegedly town POV, that is.

And doesn’t this seem eerily familiar? Gheb is pressuring him. Trying to get him lynched, and he is buddied in response. I later attacked J with a vengeance… and was buddied in response. This tactic is ditched later on when it has failed to obtain the desired reaction twice outta two times, and resulted in a myriad of callouts after the more notable offence of it (buddying me). What do you do when, as a chameleon, your disguise isn’t working? You change your disguise, of course.

And, conspicuously enough, the next people to really attack him are … wait for it. Laundry and Gandhi.

Methinks we’ve found a pattern, Watson.

Ryker is scum. WHOOSH. Airball. And why is Ryker scum, when Axel has literally accused him of the EXACT SAME THING he has assumed GHEB to be doing? Except with the added fact that he gives Ryker an actual, concrete (and NULL) motive? Unlike Gheb, who’s just doing this for no particularly specific (or, y’know, TOWN) reason?

Incoming another airball: Choice is probably scum you guys huhuhuh whoops. Turns out he’s the cop.

Gord is scum huhuhuh whoops. Just can’t make those three-pointers, can he?

And guess who’s town with Gheb? Nabe. You may remember him from such hydras as Afro Gandhi, the MAFIA GODFATHER. Y’know, the one that if investigated would return as TOWN. Well that’s not conspicuous at all.

And for the love of God, WHY ISN’T LAUNDRY ANYWHERE IN SIGHT ON THIS LIST!? He has joined this wagon and made actual, ingame points about Axel (despite their crapitude and mild scumminess) and repeatedly called for their hammer (mostly self-hammer). This is something neither Gheb nor Ryker have to their name. Why is he not even MENTIONED!? SERIOUSLY?

I’ll tell you why. Because they are scumbuddies. SERIOUSLY.

Whew. I didn’t mean to get so riled up there, but seriously. That post is ridiculously scummy. And I believe it’s very carefully crafted, too. He has one correct town read, which happens to be a power player that’s doing the same **** he thinks someone else is scum for. He has three incorrect scum reads, two of which would be easy mislynches. And he has a town read on the mafia godfather. The goon, who is pushing his lynch in a similar manner to two of the above townies, goes completely unmentioned.

The AtE levels of this post break your AtE Geiger counter for a reason. It’s meant to make you feel bad and step back from lynching Axel. However, if that were to fail for some reason, think of all the insane red herrings it would open up. This would be the most hotly discussed post on D2, with endless WIFOM to discuss. And it’s all about townies, with the exception of the godfather, who may be investigated N1 for that reason. Gheb was also a possibility, but he was pushing (and started) the wagon, and thus probably a less likely target. Not that it’d incriminate Nabe/Afro anyway, but this opens up a possible godfather investigation.

Laundry’s absence is the scummy cherry on a scummy mothaf***in’ sammich. Yeah I put cherries on my sundaes. Deal with it. Unlike Afro, a rather left field addition to the list, Laundry’s a lowly goon. Exclusion is the best thing to do with him if you’re scumJ. For townJ? Even an “I can’t figure him out” is pretty god damn compulsory, given that he threw as much or more heft behind the whole thing as the two townies that are on it.

I mean, I feel like I’m starting to talk in circles here, but it’s because every god damn thing about this post is so scummy, and every facet of that scumminess wraps back into another. It’s a ****ing Klein bottle. Of scum.

The other head endorses this post, by the way!

Kay time to be rational, why has a player been put to L-1 within less then 12 hours of the game opening and the pure basis of the reason is, "Hammer him already." There is a select group of weak people on this wagon that just go along with whom they think are good so they can just hide behind them.

Anyways, can someone tell us what exactly I am supposed to respond to besides, No I do not want to be lynched.

J clearly has the opportunity and – if he were town -- motivation to pressure some people based on this post, but doesn't. Also doesn't seem to mention any of these "weak people" in P81, unless Choice is one of them, and that read was incredibly passive. Only the Gorf read could fit the bill, and again, he isn't mentioned here.

This post is a pointed accusation with NO target. The pointed accusation is about a very scummy thing and very much worth pursuing; the only reason not to do so is fear of retaliation. That ain’t town.

Furthermore, you know who perfectly fits the bill of the kind of person he’s describing here? Laundry. Deliberate exclusion of a scumbuddy? I think so, Pinky. I thinkkkk so.

Axel FINALLY says SOMETHING about Laundry. Specifically, he puts Laundry and Ryker on an even keel, saying that they’re “serious about lynching him”. Laundry has stopped bringing actual points to the table after those initial poor ones and reduced himself to requesting a hammer that wasn’t going to come, and generally pursued it in a slapdash and frivolous manner. Ryker’s posts actually feel more deadpan and focused on this goal to me, which of course completely fits what he said he was going to do before the game started.

So here J finally is. And here we have another gorgeous moment of active disconnection. J looks good on a Laundry flip. Laundry looks good on a scumJ flip. Ryker also looks bad on a Laundry flip, which would give J the leverage needed to take him on.

And best of all… he says nothing at all about Laundry’s alignment. What he thinks about Laundry, or what he’s doing. Nor did he do so in the earlier post of reads. Yet Ryker gets a stance. Why is that? For that matter, why is Gheb suddenly not being mentioned when he’s also made it clear he’s dead serious about the lynch, and the Axel slot has expressed this to be the assumption they were operating on?

I’ll tell you why. Because Axel wasn’t trying to frame Gheb, but they were trying to frame Ryker. They knew all the connections I just pointed out would be dredged up, and they knew it because they were scumbuddies with Laundry.

(inb4: “Gheb was telling us to get our act together”. So what? Did he not start this wagon and talk extensively about his desire for your deaths? Was that not the assumption being made about Gheb’s play?)

More talking to Gheb and stuff.

Then suddenly… This.

…What? Seriously? First page fluff when ****’s clearly out of RVS?

What is the objective of bringing this up? And why Gandhi, whom they thought was town?

Ugh.

Axel also makes this post in response to a good question.

Remember, this behavior is all [somehow] town! But Ryker’s scum for the same behavior with an actual motive driving it that is null. And Laundry is “serious”. Whatever that is. Who knows!

This definitely feels like a mere sidestep of the whole push so that he doesn’t have to engage Gheb.

Gandhi then applies some of my favorite stuff… softball pressure!

Half the damn post is dedicated to nulltalk. The rest is basically coaxing him to play better, framed to look like actual pressure, albeit through sound advice.

Axel ignores this, unvotes, and needs to talk to the other head.

Gandhi prompts J for this.

@Afro Gahndi: What is there to counter? Lol, kay, the votes consist of everyone jumping on the wagon, just to jump on. How does one refute that correctly? You can't do so. It's simple.

@Choice: This side is getting closer and closer to just making a decision without consulting the other side. n_n

Again, he ignores the advice (disguised as pressure) by Gandhi, addressing a point that wasn’t really being made.

Ironically enough, in the process, he passively threatens to do exactly what Gandhi was telling him to do. Watch out, Choice! I’m gonna maybe vote you perhaps maybe if I feel like making a decision about something. Y’know. Maybe. I might.

Or y’know, I would but man the BALL AND CHAINNNNNN mannnn. (This is going to be a common excuse, and it doesn’t hold any more air now than it did back then).

Gandhi replies in the obvious manner – he reiterates what he actually said in the first place.

Reply?

@Afro: That's what this side is thinking but we made a promise not to vote anyone before we consult each other first simply because of our last mishap in Celebrity mafia of us being so discombobulated.

This is an absolutely terrible reply. I’ve been saying this for so long I swear I’m gonna have an actual blue face when I shower later. But it’s true.

Tell me how to defend myself! “Start a wagon of your own, show us you’re town.” How can I show you I’m town when I have nothing to defend against!? “I just told you, start your own wagon.” But I wanna keep treading water!!!

Seriously. D1. You’re complaining about being under fire for no reason, while aggressively refusing to do anything. And the excuse is STILL ****ing ****. I can’t! I promised my other head I’d NEVER vote without talking to the other head!

I’m going to assume somebody got quickhammered because of stupid misplaced votes on one of their part in Celebrity, or whatever. That’s the only kind of scenario where “hurhur gotta be careful with my VOTE” (sound familiar?) becomes a valid concern. Not D1. When most of the cast votes are on you. When an entire page earlier you had four concrete reads and one strong peripheral read. God damn it.

Okay. Whew. Deep breaths.

Now, let’s take a step back and look at this whole interaction. I know it blew my mind for a while when I was rereading. It doesn’t look like they’re scum together, does it? Not at first. But, really. How much pressure is Gandhi actually applying? None. He’s gently chiding Axel with softballs. Axel replies with dumbness and gets away with it (I’ll illustrate that more in a moment).

The MANNER by which they communicate seems to be that of unaligned players. The CONTENT does not reflect this at all. Hell, why does Axel show more concern to Gandhi? He thinks Gandhi is “town”, correct? And Gandhi’s vote is on Choice. Which means it could move to Axel – it could hammer.

But Axel is unbothered by this, and just goes on as he was, aggressively refusing to do anything. What a prickly one he is. Because they’re scumbuddies, and he knows he’s not in danger. Another observation of note is that he doesn’t counter-question or counter-analyze Gandhi, which he has happily done to everyone else on his wagon – everyone, that is, except for Laundry.

Appropriately enough, Gandhi accepts that preposterous answer and immediately changes the subject. Hey, sound familiar? Yeah, I talked about how X1-12 ****in’ loves doing that **** with scumbuddies. And then I pointed to him doing that **** with J. And now here he is doing that **** with J after RVS.

I’ll just quote myself from my Gandhi case:

How was that in any way an acceptable reply? It stunk so much worse than dodging the issue did, and someone applying legitimate pressure should have chomped at the bit on this one imo.

Instead Gandhi just accepts the lamesauce excuse and... sets his sights on our resident Steven Seagal: lawman. After gleaning over it so many times, I can't see this interaction as anything but either fauxhunting or staging. And either way, Gandhi's scummy for it.

A piece of the puzzle eluded me. But now I see the light.

Gandhi dismissed his point after that outrageously bad explanation because he was looking for a reason to do so.

The unaligned “manner” can be faked by minimizing your communication with the other. The unaligned “content”, on the other hand… well. That’s harder to fake, and this looks like anything BUT that. As they say, when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, etc etc etc.

And then suddenly a Choice wagon! In order, Gandhi, Jerkus, Shina (improperly formatted vote). Soup is standing by with an FoS.

Zen pops off this big ol’ reactionary post, which pays some special attention to Choice. But he dooooesn’t quite vote. Not yet. That would come dangerously close to doing something after all. He also prattles off the same **** as earlier (who knows which head first said it) about how there’s nothing to defend against, still refusing to start an investigation or wagon of his own.

Plenty of the post is also dedicated to unnecessary fluff, and the one time it addresses Gandhi is about that stupid fluff **** that got pulled out the cellar earlier and had once again receded quite a while prior. Also drops a Jerkus buddy in there, in a rather flat and unsubstantiated manner and “oh I think your town but the OLD BALL AND CHAAAAIN won’t let me etc etc.”.

He then posts again, stating his lack of desire to deal with Ranmaru. He’s sure to mention WL here in a long list of apparently “dumb” people.

Except Ranmaru actually asked a very logical question. Granted, there was one dumb question borne of misreading and stuff but hey. That’s Ran. Ran’s question about those reads, however, is a good one about something that has been burning at me for this entire game, and it’s nice to have it neatly confirmed that the baffling nature of them is because J is scum.

J seems to answer, as promised.

Except… here the contradiction is made oh so clear. Gheb is town because of “how he is playing thus far.” Ryker is scum because … of how he is playing thus far, apparently.

Except they were both trying to do the same ****ing thing.

I can not stress the utter contradiction here enough. I think Ran called his *** out on the read dump, and J scrambled for logic that wasn’t there. Because he was talking out of his ***. Because he’s scum.

It’s also interesting that Axel finally joins the Choice wagon here, after a whole lot of talk and not one quarter-step of walk. It’s interesting because another player (Ranmaru) has joined the game, and seemingly trained their sights on him. And Choice hasn’t backed off. He sees that he can’t tread water any more. He needs action. And the easiest action is to join the second biggest wagon, scumhunting be damned.

So he flops onto Choice, haphazardly pointing out a “textbook scumtell”. Apparently not, eh? I said this last time, and now I’m gonna smugly repeat myself: Did I mention I don’t like people who play out of textbooks? People who play out of textbooks don’t want to have their own opinions on the table.

Basically the Choice argument just goes on with Axel as a counter-aggressor. In my first big post I detailed missteps I felt Choice had made, but also that I felt the pressure J/Axel applied was way the **** out of proportion and opportunistic. Also, I’d like to take this time to point out that it’s until Choice has two votes, an improperly formatted third, and an FoS that Axel goes for Choice, and more importantly that this is the first sign of him being even remotely aggressive.

And, so with all that in mind, I went for J instead. This play still looks like all those things, and it all carries on until Choice (a newbie, remember) seems to fluster himself and blurt out a few unfortunate noobtells that can look very scummy in the right [manipulative!] light. Like “textbook tells”.

PS, he doesn’t like Ran.

What a twist! Especially when Ran’s only real post had some good questions in it. Sure, and a couple dumb ones but hey. Dumb=/=scum.

And then they fluff up the thread by talking to each other in the thread. About how they’re totally not talking to each other… in the thread. For ****’s sakes.

By the way, you know who hasn’t posted in a pretty long time? Afro or Laundry. Watching over your scumbuddy, guys? Seein’ where things go?

Here’s one of my favorite new gems.

Notice the people Ran asks him about. Specifically, Laundry. But also Gordito, who ends up dying in the place of not only J, but Laundry as well.

The better part of a page goes by, and I bust in like Garth and vote for Axel.

Only then does Axel post and despite posting twice, he completely teflons the question.

People argue out the Choice wagon, slowly adding mass until he hits L-1. Axel says nothing this entire time. Apparently coming when called by a jokevote was the only thing on the agenda.

Choice falls off of L-1. Then gets bumped back up by Shina. Choice starts doing nonstop ISOs. Axel continues to not be here.

Seriously. How is this not scummy as ****? He plays just long enough to find another wagon, dabs his toe in the water, then when it’s warmed up by a few other voters, hops on. And pretty much f***s off. Until summoned by a vote, and only to answer to that.

Not the question for a read on the person he ended up helping lynch, who flipped town, or the person he said was town (more on THAT later!), who flipped scum.

Really now. Really now.

Axel’s back after the wagon has hit a serious stall. And unvotes. I’m completely confident Axel was watching that thread the entire time, waiting for the chance to punch it through the goal line.

And then another long, sprawling and reactionary post that doesn’t go anywhere in particular.

Though there is one bit in there of note:

Shortly after a section where he continues to hammer in that “RYKER AND LAUNDRY WERE SERIOUS” comparison, Axel replies to this from Jerkus:

Shin and Ryu makin' me crazy with the not contributing while posting, but I'm particularly wary of Washed for some reason.

(already zeroing in on dat scum, ‘tseems)

With this:

By Ryu do you mean Ryker? If yes, what is different about WL from Ryker? If not, why did you fail to mention Ryker? And still what is different about WL from Ryker?

Why would Ryu mean Ryker? Why wouldn’t it mean exactly what it says… Ryu. Red Ryu. The player in the game. That was doing exactly what Jerkus said, and that was actually comparable to Shina while Ryker was not at all.

But no, he goes on. Why didn’t you mention Ryker!?!? What’s different about Laundry!?!?

Rawr, how dare you attack my scumbuddy but not Ryker for doing similar things.

Seeing a pattern?

Then this little snippet later in the same post:

You not thinking Ryker is scummy for trying to quicklynch me is noted.

Holy balls how many times is he going to avoid talking about Laundry!?!?

Seriously they are SCUM. TOGETHER.

Gets at Soupy a lil’ bit.

I mean I wanna forgive him because Soup’s play was kinda wonky early D1, but hey. The facts is the facts.

Errbody goes full ****** for a while and Axel glides back into the shadows.

Then Laundry comes back and addresses Axel, which puts a stop to that. Conversation starts at P327, for interested parties. They basically trade accusations of mental ***********, and don’t do much of a damn thing to pursue the other guy or call ‘im scum. Just… call ‘im ******** a few more times. Aight den…

Hilariously enough, with P330, Laundry ninja’s Axel keeping the dialogue going. And the post he ninjas him with? Quoting something Choice said and saying it doesn’t line up. Positioning to get off dat bus and onto the first townie wagon of the day, am I right?

Yes. I’m right.

And then they trade some more barbs about mental capacity. And then with P337, Laundry calls ran out. But, he has been ninja’d by Axel, continuing the discussion! This is some Benny Hill scumbuddy **** right here, man.

And they KEEP GOING. With only the barest traces of accusation, after many posts exchanged. But then Laundry finds a vote he likes. That one I pointed to earlier. Y’know, the opportunistic and ****ty one. And then he finishes the lines of discussion at present, and caps it off with:

“why the **** are we discussing this still i wanna move onto more important things since that wagon's done”

Transition complete? Smooth, bro. Had me goin’ for a while there.

Oh, but they keep going. But Laundry also keeps trying to transition out of it.

And then they successfully pull it off, with P347-8. A nice, gradual stop. You didn’t pass over into the intersection, either! Nice work, boys, I’ll see to it that you have your driving permit in no time at—

Hey wait a minute.

Oh, and Laundry keeps doggin Soup (and others). Then votes Soup.

Transition complete!

Laundry continues on and on with the others.

Ryker and RR finally enter. Axel’s gone. Again. Laundry gets in the face of a few others, including RR, whom he probably knew was inevitably going to take a rain of fire from Ryker.

After a whole buncha arguing, in P425, Laundry softly defends Axel:

I guess? I find it a moot point. Just like I find Axel's nonchalance to his voting him a moot point, it's shifty and hard to justify for or against, Axel was just assuming that the entire thing was a piece of **** gambit that wasn't going to happen.

Note the deft touch with which he does so. There’s nothing overt about it, and in fact it’s damn near a fence-straddle. But it’s there, and the feather touch of it is the worst part.

Finally, some time around when Ryker casts that first vote for RR, Zen announces that J is replacing Axel. Kay.

Amidst all this, Ryker disappears again, J still isn’t back, and Laundry slips off of RR and goes on the prowl for easy prey, again.

J finally gets back in the ****. He buddies the absolute **** out of by Jerkus and me in this post.

He also deflects the vast majority of my points with three words: “That was Zen”. He uses them like a magic spell. Yes, several of the points were about “blah blah, but J on the other hand…” However, many of them weren’t, or were simply given no satisfying answer whatsoever. The point about his batty concrete reads went unaddressed. The point about refusing to take action with so much as a ****ing vote on ****ing D1 went unaddressed.

Christ, he even admitted that he has to take credit for what Zen said. But didn’t. Many of the points I made about J applied just as well to Zen because they were about knowledge and experience, not really who it is in particular. He really relied on “that was Zen” to be his ticket out of that one. And while I admit finding out I had the “who’s who” all wrong knocked me for a bit of a loop, I did even within the post I was making note that my points still stood.

But yeah, then suddenly buddying. Then he quotes my exasperation with Gheb about the wall thing and goes all ME TOOOOO WE’RE IN THIS TOGETHERRRRRR. He quite clearly tries to pull me into his corner with that one. In fact, let’s look at this town and scum reads from that post (because he was kind enough to post a full list when no one asked for that and I still think those are stupid at best and scummy at worst)

Evil Eye
WL
Soupa
Circus
Afro

EE & Jerkus & Soup – Turbotown Muscle Squad all day err day

Laundry & Gandhi – SCUM. SERIOUSLY. BOTH OF THEM. Come on. Come onnnn. Come on. Come on. Come on.

His scum list is merely: Gheb ‘n’ Gorf.

So J wants Gheb and Gorf to eat some rope. Laundry wants basically anyone that isn’t a townie he’s buddying or Gandhi to eat some rope. Including Gorf. Gandhi wanted Laundry at last blush but is going to change his mind when he gets back. Seeing some coordination, here?

P688 has one snippet I want to address.

Another thing, I usually do dislike the person who tries to become the town leader which Gheb has been trying to do to push who he wants lynched lynched like EE for example.

~.-

Gheb is scum. For trying to get the person he wants lynched… lynched…

Je m’excuse. Ma francais n’est pas trés bien, mais … avez-vous perdre te cerveau!?

Sorry, sometimes when I read stupid things my brain kinda breaks. Like, this is just a whole other level. I don’t know if I missed this back in the day or if it’s been so long I’ve had time to repress the memory of reading this post or what but… jesus.

Like, the nature of Gheb’s attack on me was pretty ********, but J attacks him for something so primordial and null it’s just. I don’t know what. It’s such a horrible attack. My assumption here is that J was just looking for something to beef up some meager attacks, and was hoping his buddying me and trying to haul me into his corner on the Gheb thing would basically make the work do itself.

Plus he has Gorf to fall back on.


Snippet of 690:

Then out of WL/Ryker, who would you rather see die and why?

Earlier in the post he told Laundry he likes him “more than Ryker”, then asks him what to think about Ryker. I admit this is kind of ballsy play for a scumbuddy, but eh. J might have said some stuff I thought was dumb, but he ain’t no chicken. And, hell, just a bit later on D1 Soup says J loves to buddy his scumbuddies, so there ya go.

It doesn’t hurt that he’s seen questioning him, either. But anyways, the snippet I’ve covered is him asking Shina (town). It’s an interesting question. Interesting because she’s town, and Ryker is town, and Laundry isn’t, and J wants to know which one she wants to die. This could have been packing a cannon that never got to go off because Shina decided to be inactive and suck all the balls.

Laundry makes the first bones of his Ryker push. He doesn’t like the deflection to Zen, but doesn’t mention the attacker buddying until it is pointed out by more than one other person, at which point he agrees with it.

Just a bit later in P764, Laundry says J’s being invited to the useless party. That’s the useless party – NOT the scummy party.

P784: J would rather lynch Gorf than Ryker. Gorf is an easier lynch by far. He straddles this border, though, noting that good responses from him probably won’t be enough for him. This is the first of several “anybody but me” moves by J.

P786: Laundry’s good with a Gorf lynch. Soup then dishes up a Gorf lynch, and J pounces. Huh. That’s… that’s kind of familiar.

Laundry finds out Ryker’s internet is fixed, but J decides he’s staying on Gorf.

Dislike this snippet of 794:

It was a joke. YOu said Ryker would not be able to respond for a while then as you said that people did stuff (me and Soupa finalizing our votes on Gord) then say that he actually could respond to see what you get from it. Haha.

I never like people putting their words or intentions in someone else’s mouth, and when it comes to saying you’ve not only parked your vote, but saying it on behalf of someone else, it is scummy. It comes across as framing this as the Day’s play. This is the kind of **** I used to catch KevinM for back in the day with the dinosaurs and yadda yadda. Jedi handwave the people you’re talking to and frame the situation as what you want it to be.

Which was a Gorf lynch, in this case. Gandhi and Laundry are nowhere near the menu.

Gandhi finally says something again in response to Choice saying he doesn’t think his wagon has been given the proper foundations to stand on.

What do you think of what Axel said about your slot? What do you think specifically of the individuals on it and their reasoning?

Again, he’s not pushing J. He’s just mentioning him.

Gorf gets a third vote, starts posting, argues with J. J ain’t havin’ it.

P856: Choice replies to Ran’s Gandhi callout, saying he’s down with that lynch and votes accordingly. In the next post, J, Gandhi, and Gorf are all in his scumpool.

P940-41: J ninja’s me and asks me what I think of Ryker. The post I was makin’ when I got ninja’d had me asking people what they think of the LaundRyker. J replies that he likes WL as town.

Gandhi’s 1005

I think J is townish, X1 says scummy.

Hey look, a hydra head split. One that allows them to stand against a J lynch at the moment, but still join it if necessary to pick up some street cred. The kind of street cred a redonkulously coasty godfather needs.

This comes just a few paragraphs after the hydra head split I pointed out back on D3. Remember that one? Someone asked whose play they like the least:

Laundry. Our heads agree, but where X1 sees a bit more malintent, I just see the same bad vibes I get every game.

BRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr!

And, naturally, he hangs out on Laundry. For now. But, naturally, he moves, in the end. Chickens out. Looks the devil in the eye and blinks. lolforeshadowing? Yes. Foreshadowing.

Here’s one of my favorite Laundry posts.

The moral of this story is: Don’t lynch useless people! They’re useless not scummy leave them alone they’re not scummy don’t lynch them!

…

Hey wait a minute…

Laundry’s 1044, likewise, feels like opening the “get on J’s wagon” door. Just in case.

I think this because the rationale expressed in the post is so damned flimsy, it’s quite clear he simply wanted to express some suspicion of J before he even read the post. And yet, J had an impoverished “wagon” of two votes. He wasn’t an easy or obvious wagon at this point by any stretch of the imagination.

…and yet, Laundry wants a clear lane to swoop onto that wagon. Maybe because, oh, I don’t know, he and J are scumbuddies, and he’s worried a storm might toss up and splatter on J before he can position correctly? After all, there were a fair few people not on the wagon that expressed potential willingness to be on it.

And just a few posts later he fencesits another J post, stating that J’s use of the “fakeness” scumtell can’t be supported but agreeing with J’s conclusions about Ran.

Laundry vs Ryker really starts to develop. Town is still scattered.

P1136: Gandhi finally posts some more content. He buddies me pretty damn hard (WHY. WHY CAN’T TOWN THAT ISN’T CIRCUS EVER BUDDY ME. EVER.)

But he had three notable reads: Choice (#1 scumpick, it seems) ; J (#2, it seems) ; Laundry (wishy-washy; I feel better about him buttttttttttt).

If you consider J and Laundry his scumbuddies, his bases are loaded here. It’s the perfect D1 checklist for mediocre scum:

-First lynch preference is a townie that’s taken serious fire [x]
-Second lynch preference is a scumbuddy that’s taken serious fire [x]
-Third lynch preference is drastically mitigated, but also a scumbuddy. Just in case. [x]

He also notes that Ryker is also a “potential scummie”, meaning that he can also flipflop and take Laundry’s side if that becomes a possibility.

J rebuts the TLDR summation of my case. I’ll get to that another time, I think. Later in the same post he blows a load of reaction on Gorf.

P1160: Laundry says he can “remember why J [him] scummy vibes.” Disengaging a losing argument for dat bus option? Right after said bus option is whacking the beehive that is an already-kinda-suspicious Ranmaru? And after Soup has still gone null on J?

Yeah I’d say that’s a good move for scum. Especially when I’ve called him out (on a shortlist) as someone that in particular has insignificant content on the matter. Or, y’know. Is avoiding it.

And here’s where it gets reaaaaal ****ed up.

You have a lot more points and you're a lot more thorough in your suggestions. It's a really well-developed case and J's responses either were "whoops okay", "I can't defend myself against this" or "lol reaching". That's cementing this in my eyes.

Dependently, I agree with your case and it has definitely influenced my read. I would put J above Gorf at least and maybe above Circus now on my reads at the moment. Your case really cemented my thoughts and J's response was the air hardening it.

1. Cemented? Cemented what? I think I’ve shown pretty conclusively that Laundry’s pushes on J have consisted of hot air – hot air that is readily abandoned whenever an easier target comes along.

2. Laundry’s been taking heat for his Ryker push. He knows it’s backfiring. He knows there’s a good chance he could go down. Not a bad time to open bus.exe. Either way, SOMEBODY’s gonna come out with some serious townpoints. And they may yet get that mislynch, which brings me to…

3. He’s still leaving Gorf as another possible lynch, and has Jerkus as someone that still might be above J.

This post lets him buddy the utter hell outta me, talking about how I’ve really influenced him. At the same time, he stresses several times how I’m cementing a read that was already there, when he really hasn’t made a single substantive point about J in the entire game, and there was plenty to work with. Instead, he was off spinning other webs.

Oh, and for all that cement, he sure has a hard time finding. Y’know. A vote. Which might have made J, about whom he feels so cemented now, a lynch candidate. But, of course, he doesn’t. He just makes a show of how much I’ve really won him over, really cemented that case he was totally already pushin’.

Because they’re scumbuddies. God damn it.

Sure enough, immediately after that post he makes a fresh scum callout on Ran if Ryker etc.

P1169: Gandhi gets in on some of that J chiding. And, well, chidin’s about all he gon’ do. The only other person he address in this post is Laundry, trying to “win him over” to the Choice lynch being a real lynch.

First of all, we’ve seen Gandhi try to “win over” a scumbuddy earlier in this game – Axel, way the hell back in RVS. I think these are the only times he tries a “win over [person]” tactic, and I think it’s a ****ty distancing tactic.

Second of all, look what winning Laundry over would do – Laundry would end up going for Choice, not J. Not that he’s voting for J, but Laundry wouldn’t have to make a show of going for J, either. Because, you see, he’d have been won over by that oh so diabolical godfather. Rawr, he’d say in later days after scumJ has flipped. That wily Gandhi pulled me onto the town cop but I totally had the janitor in my sights. I’m so town you guys.

P1171: Laundry insists on keeping his vote on Ryker, still, but stresses that he’ll “probably” hop onto J. If he “fail to find anything”.

Gandhi and Laundry keep talkin’ to each other a lil’ bit. Not unlike the J/Laundry conversation, it seems oddly spontaneous. But if you look at it, they really just dance around each other. Just like J and Laundry did.

Then comes another Laundry post that’s top 5 for sure:

Looking back, I was wrong when I said it doesn't imply meta. I think I was trying too hard not to contradict myself and ****ed up as a result. There is some meta involved, but it's not the point of the case. It just strengthens it.

I agree, though, the case has been kinda weak and I've been strongly considering switching to J's wagon but I'm not done with Ryker yet and we've still got a little bit of time.

God he’s still doin’ that. Still!

Seriously you guys oh man that J guy but I’m not done with Ryker but oh man J’s gonna get it one of these days lemmetellya.

This post from J contains a response to Gandhi and a callout to Laundry. I find it absolutely fascinating that they’re both placed right next to each other. Formatted in the same manner ‘n’ ever’thang.

And look what he does! He calls Laundry out on “flipp[ing] like a switch.” Which he did! But does he make anything of it? …no. Apparently not. Oh, sure, J offers “on my town flip you have a scum WL.” But that’s quite a few steps removed

What we have here is the first inkling of what some people call the Double-Bus (all the way, across the sky). It’s perfect when multiple mafiats are in a bad situation, because even in the worst case scenario (one of falls into a burnin ring o’ fire), good comes of it. Specifically, town points for the survivor. Best case scenario, they get a ML and can yell at people for not lynchin dat scum earlier, which they toootally were gonna.

J posts again just a couple minutes later, seeming to remember that he just perked up about Laundry without actually posting any substance or generally much of a reason to be doing so. And note that even in this “Oh, yeah, right, REASONS…” post, J doesn’t wanna throw a vote down. Still comfy with Gorf.

Jerkus comes in with pretty much the first post that made me go all oh man this dude is so town. He doesn’t take any **** from Laundry and calls his *** out with a vengeance, drops that vote.

This is just minutes later, remember.

…and so was J’s sudden follow onto the wagon. Jerkus’s callout was legitimate, yeah, but what he was calling out was also so readily apparent with its scumminess in the first place. And note that even here, dropping his vote on Laundry, J is quoting something he said and saying he “might have a point”.

So, Laundry is ignored for what feels like decades and completely shirked when it comes to the issue that was apparently magically illuminating for Gheb and Ryker. Then he’s just town, even after he starts attacking Ryker with his “blah blah meta, but this totally isn’t meta, but etc etc”.

But, when and only when he applies pressure to J, suddenly he’s just so scummy. But neither of them want to vote for each other, of course. But then Jerkus sledgehammers through any shred of towniness one might have seen or paved over Laundry’s incidents with! And suddenly J just HAS TO vote for him.

Furthermore, Jerkus’s vote on Laundry was what made this a real, proper wagon. Third vote, son. And I really can’t stress just how BS what Laundry said was, nor how severely Jerkus kicked his ***. And J swoops in literally right after and nestles a cozy vote to put Laundry at L-3.

Seriously? **** smells.

Jerkus and Ran have an oddly prophetic conversation from 1204-1206.

Responding to this, J says

Can you read? Before Circus even posted I was expressing disdain for WL. In fact just look at the two posts ABOVE Circus'. I said I agreed with Circus and that wasn't the reason I was solely voting him.

Yeah, except he was town until he started to apply (mediocre) pressure.

And man, here’s that classic attitude. Someone votes for someone that is scum, but that’s not known yet. Someone calls them out for the manner of their vote. “Ex-cuse me, sir? I was voting for them before (insert town dude that is kicking said mafioso’s *** in)!!!!”

It’s the kind of comment that reads as stilted, and more than just a little too prophetic. I can recall one more person making such a post off the top of my head, in this game – Afro Gandhi.

Speaking of!

Circus are you on V/LA or anything? I Like what I've seen from you so far and want more

If you think J is a scapegoat then what do you think of EE who started the attack on him?

While your at it do you think there's a Washed/Choice connection or are you just saying they're both scummy? If you see a connection the bring it up please

@J: You think a town EE would be reaching and tunneling? You also sound desperate to hear that someone agrees with your defence - for the record I don't and its full of redirection

Buddying but he “wants more”.

Oh look, staging. Jerkus, who apparently has something to prove when looked at by Gandhi, needs to comment on me and my attack on J. This totally looks like puppeteering. At best, Jerkus might reply that he doesn’t care for it one bit, and bam, two powerhouse townies start dukin’ it out. Also J is taken out of some of the spotlight. At worst, he gets to fish for what he’s supposed to think.

In the meantime, he’s perfectly content to fencesit and limply pressure J. Questioning him about townEE? What’s that gonna accomplish? What he asked Jerkus was a far more direct and investigative question. And it ain’t a coincidence that Jerkus is town, but J ain’t.

But, oh, he doesn’t like the defence and it’s “full of redirection”, which totally isn’t a point he’s parroting the absolute hell out of.

They keep talking about this point. The way Gandhi drives in that meta-point about me and my being better than reachy tunnely cases and the whole “reeeaaally, J, he’s not suspicious?” tone gives him licence to go after me if J flips at some point. Which is exactly what I think he was positioning for. It’s also staged to look like he’s pressuring J, but he’s pressuing him about meta. C’monnnn now.

Then Gorf comes in and starts givin’ it to J, so Gandhi slinks into the background.

P1236: Oh hey, Laundry’s finally willing to vote J. After J has voted him. Which he followed Jerkus by doing, and otherwise would have kept on doin’ the same ol’ non-votin IGMEOY shiznit. Laundry calls him out in a hilariously hypocritical manner.

Really though. Is double bus.

Jerkus, you even almost had it back here!

I'm sure you did; pretty much everyone in the game has. But you're only committing strongly to him now because your Ryker case crumbled and J's an easy target.

There’s an extra layer; his case on Ryker crumbled and he deferred to J because he’s his scumbuddy, because no matter what happens, good comes of doing so. More importantly, though, J didn’t have a single vote on him at the time. Not one. Perfectly safe move for ‘em.

Laundry, meanwhile, is chillin’ at L-2. Why would he vote for scumJ? Here’s a better question, man. Why the **** wouldn’t he? If he’s goin down, J needs street cred for D2 or mafia’s gonna get curbstomped. This kind of street cred might be obtained by, y’know, making a half-hearted double bus when you’re in a serious bind and possibly on death’s door.

Seriously.

Despite calling Laundry out for what would from his POV as town basically be horridly-timed OMGUS (not to mention all the grimy **** Jerkus suggested), J moves on and talks about Ran suspicions. He stresses how strange it is that Ran puts the lynch pool as Laundry ‘n’ J, and says it’s odd because of all the Gorf talk.

Alarms goin’ off yet? No? How about when he starts calling Ran out for thinking Scumdry = scumJ, even though in the past I’ve made posts he liked with about the same content level based on if X is [alignment] then _____?

Challenged for an explanation of his sudden Gord/Ranmaru scumteam, J offers this up.

There are a few disturbing things about this post. First of all, the post he’s following up said he can specifically see a Gord/Ran scumteam. Not that one being scum would/could incriminate the other, which is totally a different thing don’t even start that pedantic argument, J. To be “seeing a scum team”, you need some good, substantive connections that you are seeing right now, without flips needed to confirm anything.

What he has offered here is not remotely that solid. On D2 with one of them flippin’ scum? Totally. But in this post J shows you Ran directing the lynch to Laundry and J and says “This is it. This is them being scum together.”

Here’s a crazy idea: Maybe Ranmaru didn’t find Gord scummy. It’s not like he was opaque about his doubt, nor about finding Wash and J pretty damned scummy. So, what, he’s scum for trying to direct the lynch onto people he finds scummy that are lynchable, instead of just anyone that’s lynchable? Man that **** wouldn’t even be scummy for good players, much less Ranmaru, who is kind of a legend for his communication snafus. Stop the ****ing presses, a townie would rather lynch someone he thinks is scum than someone that can die easily (and is town, it turned out)! What is this ****? Why is Ran scum here?

The next point is a real damn big stretch. If you don’t know something, you don’t know it. What’s scummy about that? What’s scummy about not having mafia delusions of deity-like omniscience? He didn’t know what to think of the Gord vote. And yet, he did know what he thought of J’s vote. He thought it opened up Laundry’s options under pressure and allowed for some serious distancing with a shot at standing up to the microscope in the long run.

And J just… calls him out for not yet knowing what he thinks of something. What? And the point where he says that Ran’s point about scumJ=Scumdry wasn’t substantiated is just… completely untrue. It’s literally said, right there, in the damn excerpt. The connection is scummy because J followed Jerkus on the vote in a manner that distances himself from Laundry while giving Laundry more options to exercise under fire. It’s right ****ing there – yeah, it’s in Ranmaruspeak, but it’s still there.

Read that excerpt. Ran hit the nail right on the ****ing head, and I’m kind of ashamed that I didn’t notice this before.

And then suddenly BAM! No more Laundry, let’s lynch Gorf after all! But he still doesn’t like Laundry! Seriously he doesn’t like him not even a little, remember that guys! Remember that I, J, do not like Laundry!

Now his reads are town for EE, Jerkus, Soupy (turbotownies with all of the biceps), town for Gandhi (whaaaat), and scum for Ran, Gorf, and Laundry. That’s two townies and a mafiat. Good odds for a scumbuddy, thur. Push your buddy without pushin’ your buddy.

Another thing to note is that of his three scumpicks, Laundry is the easiest one to disengage later, because it’s not tethered to another person. It’s just floatin’ there, all free like, ready to float right on away if given the opportunity.

He keeps at Ranmaru after getting a perfectly reasonable clarification. Soup gets at Ran a bit. J is quick to me-too him and says he’s happy locking down his reads. His reads which contain only the heavily-distanced goon on the scum list (who is currently padded from danger by a shaky scumteam case), and the godfather on the town list. Easy sleazy peasy, man.

Soup reacts to being called town by J’s list, saying that he has never done so before. J is quick to reply with some rather… blatant AtE buddying. And what’s J doing here? Remember that this is in communication with someone who had him on the **** list, in addition to being largely not considered scummy. Thus, Soup was a danger to J. And sure enough, after this post… Soup is starting to lean town on J. Because the manipulation is working.

That whole damn list achieved nothing but offering up handjobs to townies. Who else was town, and on the list? You, Jerkus, for starters. Almost no one had a cross word for you, and you didn’t like J much – but you like Laundry far less, and could also potentially mislynch Choice in the future. You were a good person to keep alive, and J was grooming you for it already. All he had to do was get you on his side, and so he tried.

I’ve already talked about buddying me. I’ve already talked about how damn near every scumteam I face has some mafiats on it trying to make bros with the bull. So I won’t go into it anymore, other than to **** my eyebrow at how prophetic it has ended up being (J, Laundry, Gandhi)

Then, of course, you have Gandhi. The godfather. Yeah.


Unfortunately, this is around the point Ran starts to drift out of lucidity and ends up badgering Soup in a standard Ranmaru fashion. This goes on for the better part of a day (this game is ridiculous, seriously), and Choice slips a J vote in there, citing that he also sees a bit of a connection.

J steps up and argues it out with Ran a lil’ bit. He then cites Choice’s post in which he made the vote and said he “get weird townish vibes”. Uh. Okay? Why?

What did saying this in the thread accomplish? What did it accomplish, more importantly, for the town? Yeah, sure. People didn’t like Choice much. But Choice wasn’t a lynch candidate anymore, with a meager single vote on himself. All this accomplished was give J a way to extend an olive branch to Choice. Nothing about it serves town. Hey kid – I like your MOXIE.

Christ, at least when J buddies me he offered actual reasons for doing so. Here it just seems like he felt compelled to respond to a post in which he was voted against, and stumbled over finding something to say about it.

Here’s a strange scumtell to discuss, but it needs pointing out. J, as scum, likes to bluff. More importantly, though, he likes to weave tiny, insignificant bluffs into his posts. Often, these little bluffs will give off an awkward, scripted vibe that just doesn’t sit right. You are likely to write off these feelings. Too much gut, you might say.

“It’s different to say the least”. Look at that explanation. Put it in your head, think about it from that perspective. Does that make sense? Does it make sense for “it’s different to say the least” to lead you to “town”? More importantly, does it make sense for you to post that in the thread, where everyone can see it? What does it accomplish? What are you trying to accomplish?

Now think about it from scum. You’ve been voted for, in a rather substantial post. You figure you gotta say something. But what to say? You’ve already backed off of your scum read on the poster, and they’ve brought up some good points about you and your scumbuddy, Laundry. And, hell, the town can only handle you going after so many people that first went for you at a time. Well, you can try a good ol’ “now THAT’S what I’m talkin’ ‘bout” tactic. Make it look like they’ve earned your favor, somehow. Offer up a vacuous compliment. Then continue on about your business. Yeah. That’s the ticket. Hell, maybe he’ll even second-guess his points; he’s expressed doubts within the post itself, after all!

These weird little gut-rumblers pop up somewhat often with scumJ, and they should never be ignored. If you have to ask yourself what town benefit could possibly come form a J post, the language feels off, and you ultimately can’t think of any benefits that aren’t self-serving, you’ve probably got yourself some scummy J behavior. I’ll point out more of these lil’ shindigs as I find ‘em, and I’ll link to a favorite example of mine from other games to illustrate what I mean.

More stuff happens. J pushes his scumteam with a shaky ISO. Not much of interest happens other than RR putting Laundry at L-2, I think.

After an eternity in the shadows, Gandhi shows up and votes for J. Apparently he lost his post twice in a row, so he offers up some cliffnotes. The reasons contained therein? Decent enough, actually. Not great, but decent. But he’s voting for J. So J’s totally town right? He was trying to save the goon by… wait.

Uh, yeah. Why stick your neck out in that manner to try to save the goon? A goon that is twisting in the wind as it is and will live and die on their own actions? Sometimes things seem to have an apparent meaning that conflicts with what a more logical analysis offers.

Gandhi doesn’t want to bother with Soup and Ran, despite allegedly having had things to say to them. Soup and Ran are both town. On J, however, he’ll offer substance – but not much. From my perspective, J has to be the janitor.

Here’s what I’m seeing: Gandhi comes in. Laundry has been flailin’. He’d be an easy lynch to seal up, but he also may argue his way out of it yet. Best to leave him to his own devices – a bus is not the ideal play here. On the other hand, Gandhi can vote J, offer four very basic points as his rationale without pushing it, and leave the actual momentum to the town. If J goes, he flips janitor. And Gandhi looks great, because he put the mythical Third Vote on him. Or Laundry gets lynched, but Gandhi can keep pushing J D2 or back off based on what looks better in the heat of the moment. If he keeps pushing, that jan flip will silence many a hater. Or maybe they’d have enough red herrings to work with. It gets all quantum ‘n’ **** at this point.

The point is, it didn’t make a hell of a lot of sense for Gandhi to come in and slap a crap vote on a townie. There was too much scrutiny on scum at the time and he’d already taken flak for his coasting. Voting scum was the smart play, and J was in less danger. With a tiny, limp lil’ post, Gandhi can park his vote on J without doing much of anything to actually drive J’s lynch forward.

Laundry shows up. He offers a minor callout or two to J, then spends the remainder responding to individual

X1 comes back against J. Notice something? All his points are… well, about minutia. “You did keep asking people to etc etc.” What does that have to do with anything? What does asking for people to comment on these things mean, in regards to scummy behavior? Does a point like that actually DRIVE a lynch FORWARD? Does talking about people agreeing with facts of a case DRIVE a lynch FORWARD? Rather than, oh I don’t know, discussing the facts themselves, or finding some of your own?

Then he fluffs up the end of the post by calling him a ******.

Seriously. This is the same kind of **** he did when he was “pressuring” Laundry.

Speaking of Laundry, Soup expresses his willingness to lynch Laundry, but requests the hammer. He cites the fact that he feels like the only person bothering to fight the lynch as the rationale.

Interestingly enough, J tries to cheer the lil’ guy up. Aw shucks, but he was just starting to move toward a scum lynch! A scum lynch of someone J also said he thought was scum! Yet, here we are. Here we have J framing “don’t lynch Laundry” as “don’t give up! You can do it!” Talk about positioning, whew. This is some seriously underhanded **** right here.

He says that “we” need a Gord case to get him lynched. We’re both in this together, Soupy!!! Soup, however, expresses a little more relaxed cynicism – why should he make a case when he’s already done what he can?

J offers this “motivational advice” in return .

Smell that? That’s the smell of J gently guiding Soup away from Laundry, while paving over the entire interaction as just some good-natured motivational speakin’. This is the kind of **** I talk about when I call J the AtE guru. It’s also the kind of **** I was talking about with regard to stilted “look how town I am” little posts that don’t look quite right.

Read that hokey last line there and tell me it doesn’t smell of irrelevant hokiness. Rawr, I’ll never give up! Cuz I’m so town!

Laundry’s back! And he wants a piece of that Gorf butt!

Ran immediately calls him out. So J’s not deserving of the lynch anymore? This backs Laundry into an interesting corner. Laundry quickly replies that if he didn’t, he’d have switched to Gorf. He’d have a hard time doing that, of course, when J has already made exactly the same move. Furthermore, Laundry would look like absolute hell if a J lynch snuck behind him right after he hopped off and J flips mafia janitor. Ran votes for J, and once again is having some kind of savant warrior moment:

He quickly changed to Gord meaning that he didn't REALLY think WL was scum. It would seem to me that J was trying to distance onto WL.

I mean, really. How is that not exactly what it looks like?

Another sycophantic little quip from J, this time for someone that thinks he is town. Convenient.

This post by Laundry actually really had me thinking Gord and Laundry might be scumbuddies at the time. Mission accomplished, apparently? Seriously, man. They’s hidin’ in plain sight.

Ryker asks J why he shouldn’t lynch him. J’s reply? A nonstop carnival sideshow of excessive AtE and WIFOM. All he actually does, contentwise, is concede that some points are good and others are “utter crap”. While not pointing to either. The rest is fluffed up with WIFOMy mentions that there are more reasons to lynch him than not, that we would gain connections, etc etc.

The dialogue continues. Ryker pins J to a wall with this one. Ryker has been fairly consistently willing to lynch J on D1, and too much of a nonpresence to really make it happen. Same can be said for Laundry. Andddddd who dies N1? Ryker. I’m assuming he was the target because he got janned. And he was startin to really hate himself some J.

J claims at L-3, and then Soup puts him at L-2. In reaction to this, J decides that there just hasn’t been enough WIFOM, and so we have some more weird self-metaing, and this time nobody asked for it.

And then some more WIFOM and AtE and he even drops the ol’ “I’m not going to spoonfeed you” classic oh god it’s so bad.

Seriously. That’s like, verbatim some whiny bad guy in the gallows talk from a certain bad guy from a certain game that certainly doesn’t exist. There’s a reason talk like this is so ubiquitious, dawg.

Ryker continues to hit dat ****. Interestingly enough, although Ryker is pinning J for completely fair points, J’s AtE manipulations actually seem to be working. Through them he is managing to whine and aggravate Ryker until he starts to want to think he is town, regardless of whether or not that is justified, because he wants to not lynch J for being such a pain in the ***.

…kinda like a certain bad guy in a certain game that doesn’t exist. The difference here is that the tactic is “big crying anime eyes” instead of “chiding taskmaster”. (@J: I know you can’t answer to this, but this stuff refers to a BRoom game where a bad guy flipped with almost identical behavior. And, no, I’m not going to not mention it, because the parallels just kick my *** all over the place with déjà vu and it’s absolutely relevant)

Laundry posts to call out some kinda “self-preservational” post by J. Pretty weak.

But then, just a post or two later, he says this.

Get it? He’s challenging J to “remove the cement”. If J defends himself well, Laundry can move on to Gorf or whomever, and it’ll look right because you see he was just showing some BREVITY and such. If J does not defend himself well, Laundry leaves it there, maybe pushes it a little more, and if J flips it’s a big ol’ I-told-you-so-fest. And it still looks alright because dangit he was still bein’ all aggressive-like! Either way, Laundry HAD to make a post of this nature because of the predicament J was in, and so he phrased it in such a way that it keeps his options open.

And then he goes off to yell at Soup and Ran s’more.

I’m not touching J’s defence for a number of reasons. For starters, it’s so bloated and outdated. Second of all, his defence of things I’ve pointed out in here, like his unusual decisions to move onto Ran and Gorf from Laundry for example… him going back and looking for things after the fact to justify them doesn’t interest me. It’s what he had to say THEN, at the time that is scummy. Obviously going back to reanalyze it is going to look better. Hindsight is 20/20, and all that. But making a marginally okay to good post about Ranmaru being scummy ages after expressing this opinion and backing it up with scummy, shallow points doesn’t do a god damn thing to dissuade said scummy, shallow-pointmaking.

So on it goes. Gandhi doesn’t care for J, still. Unsurprising, since although the particular points Gandhi was pursuing at this point were so petty, he’d taken a fairly concrete stance on them. That would make it impossible to disengage without looking scummy. So he keeps pursuing J on these petty, relatively easy to argue grounds. And once again, a J-anitor flip would look absolutely fantastic for Gandhi, but he’s not putting in the real work to make it happen.

And here’s a nice, interesting split: Laundry’s reaction to the defence.

Laundry challenged J to “prove him wrong”… and apparently, he did. And now he gets to slowly disengage, and they can carry on as highly distanced scumbuddies. Or J will be lynched, and the godfather will look totally awesome. Oh, plus he doesn’t actually take the vote off. Y’know. Just in case. Has to make sure it’s actually save to disengage before doing so.

Here’s a fun one: despite J having risen up as probably the favored lynch of the Day, and being the lynch Gandhi allegedly wants, here he is offering to switch the Gord. Rather than, y’know. Put up some god damned content and drive in the J lynch.


Christ, I’m starting to repeat myself this late in the game. Here’s the TLDR of the end of D1:

J, Laundry, and Gandhi kinda chase each other around in circles for a while, and then Gorf gets lynched, in spite of how badly they howled for each other’s blood at various stages throughout the Day. And that, old friend, says everything you need to know.

(But I’m going to say so, so much more. …to the detriment of my health…)

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

That wordcount...

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

That wordcount...

Yea... 502 Bad Gateway approves.

 

[#HBC | J]

Hmmm well that's not as bad as I thought. Okay I'll debunk that after I finish my posts.

There is going to be more correct? I hope so, looks fun.

Hopefully they aren't all as fluffy.

 

[#HBC | J]

No but seriously, who the hell writes this much ON ONE DAY PHASE?!

Like dear lord I am in awe, but in fright at the same time.

Can you at least provide some sparknotes to it if you plan to do more? We only have a little over 2 effing days.

 

[#HBC | J]

This is sooooooo effing karma to all the times I posted walls in games.

Karma is a *****.

I gotta stop complaining and actually get to doing things but grah I am so GRAH right now. You are freaking scum and posted that much text? Especially considering what little in comparison I did.

/end salt rant

=======

Time to get back to my posts. I can't deal with that now and will work on it later.....

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Deadline has been extended due to crashboards. The new deadline is July 15th, 11:59pm.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm terribly sorry but I cannot finish my response to EE's post at this hour. I've worked on it for like an hour and I still have so much stuff to plow through. Then I have to finish my own posts and then prepare to battle against at minimum 3 more of those. And I only have 3 days to do so?

This is like impossible but I have to do it. And it just so happens this starts when I have major play rehearsals and clubs/parties. FML graaaaaaaah.

I need some rest to get back into this.

 

[#HBC | J]

I will say one thing though Evil Eye before I go for the night. I didn't come all this way in the game just to see Circus be manipulated by you and me being used as a final ML to your victory when I have been fighting this entire god damn game and put up with so much stuff.

I will not lose because as town I don't get ML'd. It's intimidating yes, but you will be going down Evil Eye.

 

[Circus]

Wow. I read that whole thing, and wow.

EE, scum or town, however this ends, you gave me a lot of hearty laughs in that post. Respect.

J, fair warning, that 2808 totally makes me want to lynch you. I do not envy you. If I were in your position, regardless of my alignment, I would probably just shake my fist at my computer screen for an hour and then go cry in a place where my tears can't ruin anything valuable. That's a **** of a lot to deal with.

I will say one thing though Evil Eye before I go for the night. I didn't come all this way in the game just to see Circus be manipulated by you and me being used as a final ML to your victory when I have been fighting this entire god damn game and put up with so much stuff.

I will not lose because as town I don't get ML'd. It's intimidating yes, but you will be going down Evil Eye.

Big talk. If the walk ends up matching, then we may have a show on our hands.

@Mod: Thankyouthankyouthankyou for the deadline extension. Much appreciated.

 

[#HBC | J]

So effing livid and sorrowful. I had been responding to most of EE's post and then I lost the freaking tab that I was working on it and grah. Stupid 502s

I have to go against that wall AGAIN and honestly I don't want to. I reaaaally don't but I have to.

And Circus, I always put on a show.

 

[#HBC | J]

Circus, could you ask a few of those questions, things? I'm gonna be trying to stay up and get that....thing....handled and under control.

 

[Evil Eye]

Well, I appreciate your situation and all, J, but I have a lot more yet to do and you've had plenty of time to either respond or post your own stuff. Plus you're scum so I'm not exactly sorry.

So, yeah. Since I just finished this, here we go.

Again.


Preface: I didn’t want to bother too much with Twilight any more than I did the last leg of D1; I’d displayed, time and time again, the way Gandhi, J, and Laundry all played with suspicions of each other without actually doing anything to drive them forward. I detailed and analyzed what feels like a million different examples and interplays, in which they would dance around one another and then set sail from port when the winds were favorable.

But there is one post by Gandhi that I want to draw attention to. Specifically, this excerpt: Gheb scum upon a J scumflip.

You know why this sets off alarm bells? Plenty of reasons. For starters, J was looking like one of the lynch plays for the next Day. That makes a comment like this a very strong one to post indeed. If J gets lynched, Gandhi starts going after Gheb on D3, and can pull up this kernel if anyone calls him on it. If Gheb gets lynched D3, they’re 2/3 mislynches to victory. Just one more needed. And you can cycle D3 out for D4 or otherwise, too. Maybe Gandhi would have to bus both scumbuddies. Maybe J would find a way to survive D2. Who knows.

What I’m getting at here is that this is a twilight comment, and Gandhi had absolutely no obligation to say anything. But he chose to say this. And what good is this to say about a townie you’ve been pressuring and ostensibly trying to mislynch? Not much. Not when J almost did get lynched on D1 and therefore would have a VIP seat in the Can Die Club D2. At this vantage point, J had a huge chance of dying on D2, and if he were to flip as a townie, where is Gandhi? He’s holdin’ the bag, man, that’s where he is. The bag of ****. (I italicized that for emphasis. Pretend you can see it.)

The only real benefits from slapping this in the paper trail come from J being scum. For townJ, this is a sloppy, unnecessary, and generally stupid remark. Nothing is accomplished. Nothing points to that as a productive, proscum thing to say. It’s better to not say it at all.

No, Gandhi quipped that in here because if J were to go down in flames on D2, it would be a precedent set to allow them to pursue a powerhouse townie, causing it to look gradual and justified. Add in the fact that people have an entire Night to cool down and that he might not have to back up this talk with any walk (which is why I hate long Twilights, so so so much), and well. Don’t look good.

There’s also this duo of posts: one, two.

This is about Gandhi hammering Gorf. I still think that was a stupid point, but that only makes the fact that J decided to parrot this offensive point all the more intriguing to me. Earlier, he also parroted Jerkus and myself wrt Laundry’s ****ed up “look at me and I guess you and etc” post, which was in response to who should be looked at D2.

See how desperate J was to be seen talkin’ to and pressurin’ them scumbuddies?

Remember what I said about people having Twilight + N1 to cool down and thus making it very possible that you will not have to back up a statement of suspicion, regardless of how strong it is? Yeah, that’s exactly how I feel about this post.



DAY TWO

And with the above said, you should consider something about D2 – town was down FOUR players. Four! That’s two 100% failed phases right there.

Not only could scum absolutely afford busing… it needed busing. J almost got lynched D1. Laundry almost got lynched D1. Gandhi took some heat from a big chunk of the roster and was a publicly accepted vig possibility.

Furthermore, three of the deaths from D1-2 were inactives, and one was Ranmaru. The pool of easy targets had basically been dramatically slashed. Better to bus now and kill a strong player at Night than to risk the entire game being blown open by transparent defences of one another. Especially when they’d been so well-distanced.

And so, it’s unsurprising that, just minutes after D2 starts, a mafiat votes for one of his scumbuddies. The most fun aspect of this is that it is J on Gandhi. It makes perfect sense; Gandhi and Laundry had sturdy connections, while J and Gandhi had started to get serious in T1.

But more importantly, look at the context here. J, who was the lynch candidate immediately behind Gorf and still a likely target., votes for Gandhi, who although somewhat reviled had never accumulated more than two votes in all of D1. Simply put, Gandhi was going to take a whole lot more charred earth before he was going to be lynched. Especially when you consider the earliness of this vote; how often is the first person to be voted for in a Day phase actually lynched? It’s ****in’ hard to get that done, man. This is by far the safest bus route available to them. Lastly, reflect back on the way J and Laundry kept dabbing their toes in the water when it came to voting for each other, despite “pressuring” each other. But now, when town is down four bodies and literally right after D2 starts, BWAM, J starts things off with a godfather vote.

And seriously, look how awful some of that rationale is. How is the reasoning of “I didn’t want to place trust in everyone else to get the hammer in” BS, much less the Guinness World Record-like BS J is making it out to be? Town incompetence causes dumb **** all the time, and three hours of discussion just… really isn’t that much discussion at all. Especially not when there’s a long twilight after to work with anyway.

I wasn’t in the least surprised to see J’s reads. Soupa and RR are both, to put it politely, townies that can be manipulated, and sure enough J has done so to both of them. I am the townie that J has already promised to buddy forever and ever so he’s kinda stuck with that one for a while.

Excluding myself, Gheb and Jerkus are the strongest townies left, and sure enough they’re in the nulls. J leaves himself open to mislynch or nightkill either of them and have it do little to effect his current standing. It’s also interesting, because both Gheb and Jerkus were lookin’ rank after D1, and even moreso to someone that knows who the scum is. Y’know, such as scum. The Gorf lynch was in many ways Gheb’s baby, and Jerkus backed down from Laundry and onto Gorf.

Then to top it all off, you have Choice as another lynch candidate. Do I really need to discuss what J’s doing here? He “pins” the godfather early on (ridiculously early, for generally **** reasons), and has the very town Choice as his scumbuddy. Whom he came off of D1 and was generally defending. And y’know who Choice is? “Runner-Up: Most Likely to Be Scum” ~ Alumni of D1, that’s whom. Convenient.

This post reeks of foresight and planning. And I’m gonna damn well say it again, it’s a long list of reads of the whole damn cast that no one asked for. For someone that said they’re not going to spoonfeed earlier, J sure has been vacuously and unnecessarily transparent. Look at me! Look at how little I have to hide! Uh that is to say, nothing is what I have to hide, if you insist on quantifying the amount that I have to hide! Which is nothing!

With a dab of manipulatively picking town reads that are unlikely to be lynched and likely to be buddyable.

And then this:

I re-read this game during the night and came to a few revelations. Some gonna keep to the chest but I seriously urge that Afro should be a lynch candidate for toDay.

Hey guys I have stuff to say about scumhunting I’ve done but I’m not gonna say it.

Granted I did similar stuff in a game that doesn’t exist, but the differences are rather grand. For starters, I actually followed through in that game that I’m not playing and that doesn’t exist, and what I ended up divulging was significant. I was also gambiting to get a properly pressured reaction before commencing a push.

Here, J is just… promising that he has reasons to believe what he believes. And not divulging them, ultimately. The other big difference is that J is being closemouthed about these supposed breakthroughs, but was willing to barf up his read on every single player literally one post ago.

Does this fit someone that’s actively trying to get Gandhi lynched? No. It absolutely does not. All this shows is that J wants to be seen as trying to get Gandhi lynched, and seen expressing his suspicion of Gandhi. Hell, he can even champion the fact that he got there first. But by ultimately refusing to post a case, J didn’t do the most important part of any lynch pushing – he didn’t push the lynch and give people a damn reason to follow him on it.

J then makes this post, directed at Gandhi. Notice the nearly psychic level of guilt he assigns to someone having the audacity to address Laundry in the way he had. Almost like he, y’know, knew what Laundry was going to flip in the first place (or vice versa).

Then in this post, J says two townies he’d be willing to lynch out of his town and null list. Aw shucks, but he already put so much pressure on Gandhi!!! This is just gonna mitigate that and keep his options op—ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Oh look, Jerkus. You were onto him again!

What is the point of saying these things unprovoked? Also, is this what you consider "keeping things close to the chest?"

Good question!

*insert .gif of that shot from every cheesy TV show or movie where people slowly turn to the audience*

Also, it’s interesting to note that Gandhi just. Doesn’t say anything to J in this time. At all. In his P1946, Gandhi offers a scant two lines to J and then moves on to other subjects, questioning a whoppin’ four different people. His next [real] post addresses Soup about stuff he dug up.

Meanwhile, Laundry pretty much instantly zeros in on Choice. That ain’t gonna change any time soon. Check his posts in the thread from there (P1972) onwards. He ain’t gonna be mentioning J for quite some time.

This post of J’s was than and remains still scummy as ****. I don’t think Wash did a single scummy thing on D1 that you didn’t call out shortly thereafter. This is just comparing apples to, I dunno. Cancerous space oranges that are actually alien spores meant to take over the Earth. Or something.

Point is, it’s scummy. So’s this. The stuff he said to you, Jerkus, is dumb and doesn’t really make any sense/refute what you asked him. The responses to Gandhi are just light arguing with no actual direction. The only accusation he makes in that entire set of response is buddying, which ain’t nearly enough.

But the cream filling in that scum cake resides here:

Choice/Afro scum.
WL is back in nulls, and I don't support his lynch anymore.

LAUNDRY SUSPICIONS DISENGAGE. COMMENCE TOWN LYNCH LANE-OPENING.

I'd vote Choice for a couple of reasons to put him at L-2 and I have no problem with his lynch but I wanna continue pushing Afro.

I’ll vote for Choice but I wanna keep pushing Afro make sure you take note of the fact that I wanted to continue pushing Gandhi just in case I end up switching to Choice and even though I refuse to make an actual case on him.

PS Hinthint winkwink win me over and I’ll join your mislynch guys nudgenudge

And then this! Christ I wanted to keep this shorter but almost every damn thing J did on D2 is scummy.

EE/Gheb, tell me why you like Circus again and what is your current read on him?

Soupa, Choice or Afro?

Circus, if you present an actual case on WL, I might oblige you with a case on Afro.

I’d like to point out that this post is the genesis of my openly stating that I like Jerkus. Notice that I didn’t mention him at any point on D1 other than my first big post, wherein I cited a few concerns? It’s because after that point, nothing you did seemed scummy and was generally in line with what I think. You called out scummy **** when it happened and gave it the measure of pressure it deserved, and no more.

I’m sure a big chunk of J’s “case” on me is/was going to hinge a lot on my “constant buddying”. But I haven’t been. This question forced me to answer that I do in fact have a town read on you, and retardtastic assumptions and pressing of this issue by RR and probably others made me continue to talk about it. It was out of my hands. The only times that I started to behave in a manner regarding you that could be stretched into buddying start after you’d been cleared by the ****ing cop. And I only began truly behaving in a buddyish manner after not only the godfather but the cop too had flipped.

J’s going to try to act like treating someone I always thought was obvtown and who ended up as cleared as possible without being a ****ing Innocent Little Girl… exactly as I should be, is buddying. That is bull****. Don’t let him.

Here he asks one of his loudly stated, nobody-asked-for-it town reads whether we should be going for Choice or Afro. So, he started the day with Gandhi and one of Choice/Laundry. Then Laundry goes back to nulls, and it’s Gandhi OR Choice. Hint hint, pick Choice. He even puts him first. C’mown.

Best case scenario: Follow townie as meat shield for mislynch. Worst case scenario: Open bus.exe, win town points, profit.

This is pretty much just preposterous and I refuse to waste any time explaining why. It’s self-explanatory.

P2002-03: Wash calls out J on a minor thing, but does it with LOTS OF SWEARS so you know he’s SUPER SERIOUS (even though he’s still voting for Choice and is going to be pushing Choice in crunch time).

RR votes Gandhi. It’s on kinda dumb reasoning, but hey. It’s RR.

Then suddenly, a wild J appears!

I'll try and do an Afro case toMorrow if time permits me.

Well gaaaaaaadZOOKS, Sarge! We ain’t seen that ‘round these parts befo’! Except, y’know, the other times.

But then just minutes after that post:

As soon as I said that I regretted it. Weird that hasn't happened before...

Uhm, actually I recant my statements for the time being, but Choice should be the lynch toDay. I'm honestly confused at the current time but I'll get back to this, till then Choice can go.

Unvote
Vote: Choice

RR's 2006 is weird and doesn't sit right with me.

Man did that one throw me for a while, at the time. If it’s a disengage, after all, it’s one of the worst disengages I’ve ever seen in my years playin’ this game. But you know what? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Let’s look closer.

Well, for starters, he’s moving onto Choice. That’s L-2 if I’m not mistaken, and that’s bad enough on its own. Regardless of the circumstances, he just moved from the godfather to the gawddamn cop.

But I think there’s more to it here. J’s been hittin’ people with his rhythm follow stick before. I believe he’s even been called out for it already. I think he made that post and realized that he was falling into a formula – a formula that wasn’t working. I think he followed RR with his promise of a case because RR was a townie, voting for the godfather. It just seems like the thing to do… in the abstract. But then, looking at RR’s reasons for doing so… y’know. They were ****.

And I think J realized his error, and tried to disengage as much from that as anything else. Hell, the suckitude of RR’s post might even make the disengage easier in the long run. It probably did; he hasn’t been called on it at all from mid-D2 to now, has he? But that **** is still scummy.

J realizes he’s following a townie for a bad reason, this time, and to differentiate himself from the poisoned water, he goes for toDay’s other favorable candidate – Choice!

Who just so happens to be a mislynch!

(also in the process of doing so he’s calling out a bad post by a townie, which could of course prove to be just the spark needed to “grow” into a ML, if town goes that route)



This post looked almost too scummy to, well, be scummy. But looking back on it, it only gets scummier – and like I said. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

lol @ this post?

I don’t even know where to begin. Although I was testing Jerkus a bit by stating I felt it was probably more a dumb post than a scummy one, I didn’t really find him scummy for it. I just wanted to see a nice, concise, Jerkus-tastic answer so I could un-narrow my eyes and continue about my business. But J comes forth right away and whammo! Apparently that “card thingy” he said he was hiding is that he thinks Jerkus is scum.

…

What.

So first Jerkus is null, but now when an opening seems to have appeared, turns out he’s scum? Yes, J did mention keeping a “card” to himself earlier… but what of it? For starters, he was holding a whole deck hostage what with his revelations about Gandhi that he refused to produce. He’s also agreeing with me that it’s more “dumb” than scummy, and yet he clearly said in the prior post that RR’s post didn’t sit right with him. Dumb or not, you don’t say that **** about a play if it ain’t scummy.

Look at how J’s play has evolved over the short gametime that D2 has provided:

Start: Gandhi and one of Choice/Laundry. Pushing Gandhi.

Middle: Gandhi and Choice. RR is the scummiest town read. Jerkus is scummiest of two nulls. Pushing Gandhi, edging toward Choice.

Now: Choice and Jerkus. And maybe Gandhi? He has gone on the record to say he’s “recanting” his statements about them, though. So yeah, doesn’t count. Pushing: Choice.

Look at the way that **** is metamorphosing. This dude is like a mothaf***in’ amoeba up in here.

And seriously, why in the unholy mother of **** was he hiding that scumpick, when he was barfing up literally every other read, including his town and null reads, and which among them he’d be willing to lynch?

He doesn’t even stop there, though.

*shrug* May just be me since everyone else has him as town but I don't care for his WL attack after re-reading the game and something's off but I need to put my finger on it.

Here, J even makes sure to mitigate it with the ol’ “COULD JUST BE ME THO HA HA HA”, and says that he doesn’t like Jerkus’s attacks on Laundry on a reread. Which is weird, because J loved them at the time, and the points raised remain completely and utterly valid. Jerkus’s disengaging of Laundry and moving to Gorf, now there’s something you could have questioned. But this?

Nah man. Nah. This **** is scummy as all hell.

J asks Laundry whom he wants to lynch toDay.

Sticking with Choice or you. Liking Choice more over you, your stunt last page has me worried. Red Ruy can go on at that list.

Laundry sticks with Choice or J. I’m not actually sure what the second sentence means, it’s grammatically unclear whether he means he “likes Choice” more than J, or “likes Choice for a lynch” more. Either one is nastay. If he’d rather lynch Choice, well. That explains itself. If he likes Choice more for town, that don’t impress me, considering J’s adequately labeled “stunt” is awful and any good scumbuddy would know it.

Well, that and he’s still voting for Choice, the townie.

Oh and he’s adding RR to the list. Muddyin’ dem waters, I tell you what.

J & Laundry carry on in that way that they do.

Then J says he thinks Laundry is town.

But it’s okay, J’s still town because you see, he expresses that he doesn’t want to think he’s town, and points to something he doesn’t like about Laundry in the process. Man. Have cake eat cake much?

They carry on some more, accuse each other of selective this, selective that, yadda yadda, then the conversation ends and they’re still on the same wagon. I’ve italicized the important part for your convenience. Y’know, the one that might have gotten lost in all their fluffy conversation and softball pressuring.

RR claims. J talks to him a bit oh man you really dunnit now.

Then suddenly this post. Hey look, a townie pushin’ a scumteam with Jerkus and Gandhi on it. Since J is already pushing Choice, those are some damn good odds.

Also he’s not feelin’ EE cuz y’know buddybuddybuddy. Always with the buddying. Why does scum buddy me.

Here’s one of those posts I was talking about with the ******** “EE is defending Jerkus herp derp” stuff. This is going to be a theme for like. Two Days or some **** ugh.

Super unrelated but I’m surprised I missed the line “You will get into show business.” For some reason, seeing that as RR’s drunken response to J being glad he’s not an adult drinkin booze and such is making me kill myself laughing. The fact that it’s typed perfectly puts it over the top.

But yeah back to the scumhuntin’ n ****.

Oh and then there’s THIS post.

Hey look at that guys. He’s liking Jerkus, a townie, MORE AND MORE. More and more than the townie that currently has his *** in a sling (Choice), on a wagon that was helped along by J. Gandhi is, of course, forgotten. Despite J’s assertion that he digs that Jerkus connection.

I guess we’ll have to lynch Jerkus to find out right? Only way to be sure. Then we’ll KNOW that Gandhi is scum, once scum is only one mislynch from victory. Unless town decides they don’t dig the connection, of course. Then we can lynch someone else. Preferably a townie. Teehee. I’m so rambunctious.

Whoops. Went off on a bit of a tangent there. Scum overload.

Speaking of scum overload, after Jerkus needles J a bit, he gets a rather mindblowing reaction out of him:

I said I am not pushing Afro at the current time, hence why my vote is on Choice.

It's really quite simple.

And now it seems you are defending Afro a bit, why is that?

Holy ****ing balls.

If I reread on D4, I’m pretty sure I’d have noticed that.

I mean LOOK at that ****.

Jerkus pokes J in a few sore spots and BAM, he’s calling him out on defending the MAFIA GODFATHER.

Sorry I keep falling into Ranmaru speak but OH MY GOD THIS POST.

Look at it. Look at the deflective language! Look at the way he goes all OHHH DEFENDIN THE MAFIA GODFATHER ARE WE HMHMHMMMM?? Could his longterm intentions here be any more transparent? Oh my god this post.

That’s all I have to say. I need to move on so’s I can regains my composures an’ whatnots.

(But, seriously. Oh my god. That post. That post – oh my god.)

Jerkus posts this.

My response: Yes. Just that word, yes. And also the things I said. Hindsight is such a *****, eh J?

Seriously though, J could not be more obvscum right now. That post. Oh my god.

That post.

And now this post.

So, now his concrete stance is that RR and Soup are town and “[e]veryone else can be fair game”. Phewwwwwwwww. Quite the transformation we’ve come through on this journey, haven’t we? Leavin’ the door open just a little wide, no?

Now I am in the nulls, and Gheb is town. And Gandhi is a typical “wait and see”, but J is sure to add the caveat that he doesn’t like them and go into detail on it. However, Choice is still scummy, and above Gandhi in that regard. Wash/Jerkus “contain one scum”. Wait, huh? That’s funny, last time you said anything on the matter, you said you think he’s town.

Yesyesyes reads change. But this **** is gettin’ redonkulous. Especially when Gheb just voted for Laundry and raised points about him. But hey, what else is new; J’s piggybacking a townie’s opinion in an opportunistic magic. Well, I guess I’ll tell you what’s new – he’s getting better at hiding it.

The most bothersome excerpt is this one:

WL, tell me why I shouldn't vote you. You need to present more stuff if you wanna get myself lynched or you need to present stuff on Choice as well.

J wants Laundry to tell him why he shouldn’t vote for ‘im. Except… Gandhi seems to be quite clearly his next scumpick down the line… right? He also frames the current scenario rather methodically as Laundry pursuing J, when in reality Laundry still has his vote on Choice and hasn’t made any push for J at all toDay.

Look at the way J’s suspicions of his scumbuddies open up like a fan once Choice retracts from Sure Thing Lynch status. Which he pretty much was, chillin’ at L-1 with all the hate he was takin’. But Gheb unvotes, whacks a vote on Laundry, and suddenly J’s narrow focus widens to include more mafiats.

The way J keeps making a show of “thinking out loud” with his reads is dangerous, because it lets him play fast and loose with them, slippin’ around like a bar of soap wherever the wind may allow him. But I’m looking back, and I’m realizing they really are his downfall. And I want YOU to realize it. This dude is so scum, man. Smell it. Smell it with your nose.

In this post, J softly defends Gheb from your accusations. You know what’s funny, Jerkus? He had no real bones to pick with your assertion about scumJ/Scumdry. He just defended Gheb against your inclusion in that team. Slip?

Furthermore, just look at how he’s white knighting Gheb. He defends the posting restriction? Really? Does anyone seriously still believe that could be a possibility? Hell no they don’t. J’s just defendin’ him cuz he town, and so he’s defending him on all fronts.

Really now. I only held out the possibility because I saw the vague possibility that Jules Winnfield might have a badass posting restriction along those lines. But RR had already claimed Jules, and the game was lookin’ pretty standard in design, so I knew it was just bogosity. And so did J, but y’know, he was scum in Defend A Townie mode. Which means you defend errrrthang.

Attacking you on the “solid townies” thing is just a 100% parrot of Gheb, to boot. Oh, and a strawman. Which is… pretty much just what he was accusing you of doing wrt what Gheb was doing with Red Ryu.

Funny stuff.

Laundry gets back and keeps at Choice. Then Choice comes back, and ends up voting for Gandhi, and talking about Jerkus a bit as well. He don’t like ‘em.

J replies with this. Notice the “subtle” way he reinforces that he “got there first” with those opinions. Notice the way this is just yet another subtle way to buddy Choice.

Notice that despite all that his ****ing vote is still on Choice oh my god.

Then this Laundry post:

I dislike how J and Choice keep talking about Circus as scum but don't really point to why they think he's scum. It seems worthless and like they keep trying to put a lighter out there and hope something catches. Pretty sure that's FUD.

You see, Laundry’s genius comedic stylings may have gone over your head. They’re rather subtle; I believe he studied the dramatic arts at Oxford and Cambridge.

The punchline here, old chap, is that he says he dislikes what both J and Choice are doing, but he keeps his vote on Choice. You see, because Choice is still the most favored lynch, and therefore there’s no reason to differentiate the two in scumminess. He dislikes both for the same thing, but he’s voting one – the town one.

Just another in a long, long, long line of “look at me! Look at me pressuring [insert scumbuddy]!”

Oh look J’s finally found an actual reason to keep his vote on Choice, albeit a poorly articulated and possibly nonexistent one.

Laundry keeps on keepin’ on, seriously trying to hammer in the Choice lynch. He and J have an even fluffier-than-usual conversation. Check it out yaself near the bottom of page 53 if you’re interested.

Jerkus ain’t havin’ nunnalldat and votes for J. J reiterates that Choice should die. He also deflects Jerkus’s sudden zeroing in onto Gheb by saying that Jerkus hasn’t done enough to elaborate on his GhebScum read, and counterquestions him, telling him to beef it up.

He also drops the “which even EE asked you about” card. Which, y’know, kinda reeks of him knowing I’m town and you’re town and tryin’ to pull in a third party one way or the other. Also yeah, there’s that whole inherent, blatant, neon-sign screaming hypocrisy thing.

J then posts this overreactive nonsense. What’ll you do when I FLIP TOWN HM!?!?!? Wow. Yeah, you better watch out, J. Quicklynches abound when people enter the PERILOUS LAND OF L-4.

He then asks Laundry for his reads on me and Afro.

Drink it in, there. J. Asks Laundry. For his reads on me and Afro.

One inactive townie that posts in big bursts and one inactive mafiat that posts in big bursts.

Gee, I wonder what kind of responses he wants here?

Sure enough, Wash is null-leaning-town on both me and Gandhi. He says we’ve both made good points at times but also been incredibly inactive.

Brrr. That identical language. Doesn’t that scream red herring to you?

J doesn’t entrap Laundry with a question about just a scumbuddy. He adds a townie in there that’s been playing somewhat similarly. This allows Laundry to paint us with a conspicuously similar brush. Hell, Laundry even keeps himself open to lynching either of us with this post, which is of course just what he needs. The godfather bus lane is open. The powerhouse-but-somewhat-inactive townie lane is open.

The cherry on top: He emphasizes that I’ve been more inactive than Gandhi. Gandhi’s inactivity was, of course, starting to bite him in the ***.

But he doesn’t outright say he wants me lynched more…

By pointing this out, I’ve probably ninja’d some of the hogwash J was gonna load up his mudhose with. Good! Suck a ****, scum.

J retreats to the batcave or whatever to think and says he’ll be back in a few hours.

When he returns, he decides that out of Choice, Choice is scum, and he’s liking Laundry more.

I mean. Do I need to say things to these moments anymore, or can I just keep pointing to them and then cross my arms assertively?

J responds to Jerkus’s pressure. There are numerous what-the-**** qualities to it. For starters, he replies to the Gandhi point that he’s “not doing a case on Afro”. Well, that’s all well and good.

Except Jerkus wasn’t making a case on Gheb either.

The middle of the post consists of fluff, WIFOMy AtE (JUST YOU WAIT MOTHA****A JUST YOU WAIT FOR ENDGAME),and emphasizing null points (I’m POSTING THE MOST DUHHHH I’m SO TOWN).

Also, curiously enough, he lumps me in with Afro – again. And when the hell did I say I was gonna make some big revelatory post, anyway? I just said I was going to read up and post some proper substance, then got butt-****ed by life and other-game johns and became inactive. J is blowing it up into this massive promise I never made.

I’d also like to draw particular emphasis to this callout/wtf-reaction combo:

Also, Washed/Choice is a false dichotomy. Our lynch is not limited to one or the other. Who do you want to lynch toDay, with the entire player list to draw from? Do you now have a pro-town read on Washed?

Heh, seems rather like what I’ve been noticing.

With one missing, crucial layer: Washed and Choice is in the dichotomy because Laundry is scum that scum can afford to lose whose *** is chewed up enough to make him an easy lynch. Choice is in the dichotomy because he’s town whose *** is chewed up enough to make him an easy lynch.

Anyways, the reply:

Apparently my vote on Choice is invisible and my constant saying of wanting him dead. Also my dislike for you seems transparent as well. I have a null-leaning town on WL.

Except J’s been throwing his dislike all over the damn place with only the barest symptoms of focus. And he’s brought very damned little content to the table for a Choice lynch and generally seems chomping at the bit to hop on any wagon that would serve him.

Jerkus, you were almost onto him in full, here:

I'm aware of your vote on Choice. But given the way you've been talking, it looks like that vote is there simply because he looks scummier to you than Washed does.

J was indeed choosing from easy targets here. But there’s one step farther that we can see now, with the power of greyskull hindsight:

Laundry was scum, Choice was town. That’s why J was voting for him.

Also, I just gotta point this out:

You're scum; get lynched. There's my case.

Hey Jerkus, think you could give that guy a call? Maybe invite him to this lylo? He seems like a smart dude. I wanna hang out with that guy.

Gandhi posts again. Ostensibly he’s still on Choice, considering he rebuts everything Choice says… but…

Suddenly, two quick paragraphs and a J vote?

Hahaha, what? Yeah, no. The players on that hydra are better than to disengage one town lynch for another in such a haphazard, slapped together manner. This is just Gandhi cobbling together points that had generally already been made and a few weaker ones of his own and gettin’ in while the gettin’s good.

Remember that there’s no Laundry wagon right now.

And now let’s look back on Gandhi. All flaws in how he goes about doing things, he’s playing a perfect godfather right now. Gandhi was one of the first to really suspect Laundry and push against him, but later dropped him for other pursuits and ultimately ended up on J. J flips toDay, that looks fantastic for him. He went off other targets D1 for the janitor. And by voting here, he’s following a solid townie in Jerkus. If this one rides through, and Gandhi steps up his play right to the last curtain fall, he’s ****ing golden.

I’m pretty sure I don’t have to tell you why this J post is crap. Especially when half of it is “lolucan’tread”.

But take a peek at the end. He lumps you and Gandhi together. See, by attacking you as a collective, even if his actions gain momentum, there’s still a significant chance of a townie getting mislynched as a result. That’s why he’s gluing you together like that. Plaaaain ‘s day.

Gandhi post. He defends Jerkus against J.

Get it? Gandhi’s toootally town, because when we lynched J he flipped janitor and then I mean just look at that post! He’s defending Jerkus, a townie!

Or, in this case, swap out J for Gandhi. He’s toootally town, because Gandhi was defending Jerkus against him.

Oh and at the end here:

That's my big post. Nabe has a post on Choice coming but dunno how long it is

REE REE REE REE! HYDRA HEAD SPLIT HYDRA HEAD SPLIT

So basically HE wants to lynch J, but THE SLOT miiiight just wanna lynch Choice. The town-approved mislynch.

Don’t pass the sniff test. ****’s staged, son.

This J post speaks for itself.

Well, J? Am I sayin’ enough? Does this cover “anything else [you] have done all game”? Yeah. I’d say it does. You’re scummy. You were scummy on D1, you were scummy on D2, and you were scummy for all the **** Jerkus said you were scummy for on D2.

And it’s because you’re scum.

He’s scum, Jerkus.

And then more Laundry on Choice action. Also he asks Gheb, Jerkus, and myself for our opinions on [insert loaded statement]. What do we have in common? We’re powerhouse townies, of course!

Then there’s this ****fest. It’s J making a case against Jerkus, saying his attacks on Laundry are bad and opportunistic and unfair and his butt smells.

That’s pretty much all I need to say, right? I mean. It’s bad.

But we have to go deeper (inception sound)! J accuses him of OMGUSing Laundry on a “bad point”.

…a bad point that he followed Jerkus on. Wouldn’t it still be a bad point, and OMGUS, at the time? Yeah, reads change. But how in the **** do they go from “good point buddybuddy votevote” to LOOK HOW SCUMMY THIS EXACT SAME MOMENT AND ACTION IS!

And I mean, that’s all without mentioning the obvious: Jerkus was right, his point was good, and Laundry was clearly OMGUSing him what the **** am I reading.

Oh and you have the part where Jerkus apparently talked about Choice being Laundry’s scumbuddy and J demands to know what happened to that. Get it? You’re supposed to be connecting CHOICE (a townie) to Laundry, not scum to other scum! The nerve of these kids today! But, yeah, just another in a loooong line of J using his knowledge of who the scum is to inject sly, underhanded accusations into the game.

You also have him saying that Afro is scum on a Jerkus flip. Like I said before! I guess you just gotta, y’know, find out! No way to be sure but to lynch Jerkus! Oh, Jerkus is town? Well, ****. THIS CHANGES EEEVERYTHING. Now I have to RETHINK THAT SCUM READ ON GANDHI WHICH I WAS SO SURE OF AND PURSUED SO EXTRAVAGANTLY.

The post ends in a Jerkus vote, of course. And Soup follows him. What the **** kind of black magic does J have that causes people to follow him around like the pied piper on such awful posts? And more importantly, where can I get some? It would save me a lot of time and all nighters, I tell you what.

And then… ugh. This.

Ahem.

This is also another reason I don't like Circus, he acts like he knows Soupa is town and that he is trying to discourage anyone from even taking the notion that I am town. He tells Soupa that he is being pulled around by me which is wrong for a couple of reasons:

More like “This is also another reason I don’t like J, he acts like he knows Soupa is town and that he is trying to discourage anyone from even taking the notion that J is scum via active manipulation, as opposed to scumhunting. Or helping lynch scum. Or generally anything good.” am I right?

Yes. I am right. God damn it.

Laundry talks around himself in a circle about what he thinks about JvJerkus. Specifically, he doesn’t see Jerkus as scum. He thinks J’s posts are fluffy and reachy and repetitive. But he’s “struggling to find that… case and its maker town.”

Well. Glad to know you’re struggling, bub. What a shame – if you’d only struggle a bit harder, you might have said something useful in that motha****in post. Instead you have him hemming and hawing his way through it. Oh, and he still wants a Choice lynch.

But… he’s sure to say “J going would be helpful.”

…but he still fishes for a Choice vote from RR.

This ***** more transparent then the invisible man, man.

Gandhi shows up. Posts all this stuff about Choice. Leaves vote on J.

After Choice claims, he says this.

Once again, it’s the kinda thing that looks good/disconnecting when you look back on it in your memory. But Gandhi said something similar on D1, and proceeded to make no effort to move votes onto J. And what happens here? The exact same damn thang.

But with a twist! Just nine minutes after that post, Laundry claims doc.

I think Laundry told Gandhi, somehow, that he was going to do it. I think he warned Gandhi that he was going to throw in a hand grenade that would turn the whole thing into a fiasco about him. This was by far the safest time to stress a scumbuddy lynch, because Laundry was clearly fishing for the real doc to make the most out of a worst case scenario.

That J wagon of a meager two votes, which Gandhi is allegedly rallying support for? Yeah, it was destined to get lost in the flood. And it did.

Immediately before being cc’d, Wash says this.

Oh my god. So much WIFOM.

Does he have the nuts to do what it looks like he’s doing?

Yes, he totally ****ing does. He absolutely does have the nuts. Scum does that **** all the time. Plus the play totally works on the off chance that he doesn’t get cc’d and lives on to continue playin the game. One bus avenue, one mislynch avenue (the last they’d need).

And then after the cc, and his doom is made clear.

Seriously. He definitely has the nuts.

Christ I bet he really thought this post would WIFOM a ton of suspicion onto Jerkus.

Hell, here’s a confirmed example:

Choice

Laundry

THAT WIFOM OH MY GOD MY HEAD.

Now that Laundry’s hammered, Gandhi requests a normal Twilight length, and Posts this.

INCOMING SPOILER:

SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE

Also, Gandhi attacks CHOICE. Well holy **** I can safely say I didn’t see that coming.

Especially now that he’s down one scumbuddy.

C’mon now.

Oh, my bad! He totally questions J! And as he is certainly known to do with scumbuddies, Gandhi asks the tough questions. He really backs him into a corner, makes him answer the truly labyrinthine questions that this game has raised. No mercy is spared.

Does anyone have a reason for a short twilight that isn't getting the flip faster? J, your reason is what?

…Hey Gandhi will you sign that softball and let me take it home, pretty please? My brother’s a huge baseball fan, and he’s hard at work overseas working on the Libya campaign. Seems like a really cool gift for ‘im, and you’ve obviously got softballs to spare

J wants to lynch Gandhi or Jerkus tomorrow probably.

Well it’s nice that he’s finally zooming in on scum instead of dancing the meringue with them and then running the **** away. What a shame RR already said he wants to lynch Gandhi and Gheb already expressed literally the exact same goddamn opinions oh my god so much parroting.

And, once again. Scum and Town, in equal measures. And boy howdy does scum need itself a mislynch!

And that’s the end of D2. Sorry for the length, again, but there was just too much scum. I tried to make it as edible as possible, but I know it’s hard to revisit all that stuff and try to choke it down. I recommend sriracha; the burn of the hot peppers kills the scummy bacteria.

 

[#HBC | J]

Well, I appreciate your situation and all, J, but I have a lot more yet to do and you've had plenty of time to either respond or post your own stuff. Plus you're scum so I'm not exactly sorry.

What?!

Are you kidding me? You have posted the longest post in DGames history as a scum-case against me when there is 2 days left in the game and then you post ANOTHER huge *** wall just to make my life an even worse hell and then have the gall to say, "Well you have had time to respond to everything and post your own stuff.". I have had to stop what I was doing to respond to your one post and I am still working on responding to it because of how long it is.

Plenty of time? I've had like what yesterday and then you add on even more to the load? Are you kidding me?

What you are doing is the epitome of anti-town behaviour. You are making these massive walls in this situation that require so much time and so much effort to bulldoze through when we do not have that. Also you have been telling the bold faced lie that you have been shortening these to the smallest you could have. To say as such is simply that, a lie.

I also, ya know, have a life? I don't have the time to just spend responding to mafia stuff. But that just set me off a bit that you said I had time to respond when you are making it impossible for me to even respond.

 

[#HBC | J]

****

I hate this. I lost everything and by everything, I mean everything. All my quotes, all my responses, and all my stuff. I mean this is going to be the THIRD time I am responding to EE's wall(the first one) and I have to go back and get quotes as well but grrrrr this is so damn infuriating.

I don't even wanna look at this game for a bit. I'm just sick of having to read EE's monstrous garbage and then just lose what I put damn effort into.

I'll be back in a bit with hopefully everything done.

 

[Evil Eye]

Dude, come on now. I'm not going to stop trying to convince Jerkus to take my side on this just because I have a lot to say and we don't have much time. That doesn't make any sense.

I was going to mention this later, but it's absolutely relevant now. You first posted inklings of EE suspicions and that you'd supposedly blown the whole thing open on like... the thirtieth of June. That's two weeks ago. And you haven't gotten a thing up in this entire time. Just buzzed away about what a busy little bee you were.

And now, after all that, you're going to attack the fact that I'm writing big posts? Seriously? That's what you're putting up? Why not some of the **** you've been working on for two weeks?

This AtE is ridiculous.

 

[#HBC | J]

Well EE that suspicion on you was a case of why GhebTown and EEscum in the current situation but since the lynch happened on Gheb I couldn't use the comparison case so I had to trash it.

No, I am not asking you to stop trying to convince Circus. I am telling you the amounts you are posting is ridiculous could be shortened down to a massive amount.

 

[Circus]

Circus, could you ask a few of those questions, things? I'm gonna be trying to stay up and get that....thing....handled and under control.

Mmmm, no, I don't think so. I would find it much more helpful to just read whatever you have to say to EE's walls, and maybe anything that you had started getting together before that (if you still have it). To be honest, I wasn't expecting even EE to go this far out with his case, so I have essentially nothing to ask him. I was mostly just planning on asking you both follow up questions about things I figured you guys would omit in your respective cases on each other and see what your reactions were. But EE's left nothing to the imagination, and as a result, I would probably just get the info I want from your response to that anyway, if you're able to manage it.

I'm going to be honest with you. Especially after EE's D2 wall, I really just I want to hammer you right now. I want to hammer you so hard. I want to hammer you so hard that the gay subtext isn't even subtext anymore. The only thing that's stopping me from aggressively and enthusiastically sodomizing you (metaphorically speaking), is the fact that I'm still in a post-I-was-wrong-about-Gheb conviction funk, so I feel the need to give you the hugest benefit of the doubt of my life.

 

[#HBC | J]

Circus, I want you to be brutally honest with me. Do you even care what I have to say against either of EE's walls? Have you even re-read this game?

You say you are giving me the benefit of the doubt, but from my PoV no you aren't. You just sound as if you are having me post to be fair and that you don't care because EE has manipulated you to the hardest degree.

 

[Evil Eye]

I can cut my arguments down? No, J, I'm pretty sure the depth and strength of my analyses (despite them being, gasp, long) are why Jerkus is leaning to me. You played a complex game with your scumbuddies, and it required complex analysis to convey this reality to Jerkus. Asking me to condense it to some kind of baseline is asking me to argue out of my element, and therefore, weaker. I won't indulge that.

And that's always been my priority -- communicating to Jerkus. Your well-being and ability to answer to what I have to say are not my concern. So I'll use as many damn words as seem to be necessary, and in large games and in endgame, that tends to be a lot me. You don't get to take that and spin it with your AtE into me being some moustache twirling sociopath that's just trying to torment you from the depths of hell with my blackened heart. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything and is nothing more than trying to attack me on the basis that I'm attacking you at all and frame the scenario as somehow nefarious.

Regardless of what your original case hinged on, you had two weeks to organize your thoughts which were already to a certainty, and here we are at the razor's edge, and your play on D5 consists of throwing FUD on my words, going all "y so srs" when I don't stand for it, promising to get things up and not doing it. And a whole lot of fluff about how town you are and how scum I am. And, now, AtE.

Enough. Yes, crashboards sucks. Yes, you have a life. Y'know what, J? I have a life too, and crashboards isn't any kinder to me. I've managed to put real content and investigation on the table, while here you are still AtEing, saying that I've manipulated Jerkus "to the hardest degree" as though tear-stained cheeks will turn your opinion into a backed up reality.

Maybe it's not the nice thing to say, but it's damn well the truth. I've done things toDay, you've talked about doing things toDay, but the only real THING you've been doing is become acidic and *****y about the things I'm doing.

I made a case. I am still developing my case. You are attacking this, attacking my mannerism, appealing to emotion in the most primordial sense of the concept. I've been persuasive; you are being manipulative.

I want to believe we're beyond that at this point, Jerkus.

 

[Evil Eye]

EBWOP: and in large games and in endgame, that tends to be a lot for me.

you had two weeks to organize your thoughts which were already forged to a certainty

 

[#HBC | J]

Okay I'm just gonna refute this quick but first off I have something to say to you Circus.

Remember D1 when I made my two huge defense walls? Do you remember what you said during those times? You said you were not going to read them because of the fact that they seem long and I doubt you have ever even read those defense. However when EE comes around with the biggest most superfluous wall in the history of DGames you read it and say "Omg EE you are like soooo amazing and like just goodness me I am infatuated with what you did.". I mean personally it's like a smack in the face because you hold a double standard and biased just because it's EE and you expected something. You even made me give you spark-notes to my 3 cases+Defense because it was long but when EE does it, oh no god forbid someone ask him to crunch his post down. Then when he does it again with his D2 post you act even more infatuated with what he has just presented.

Let me do the first case:

-Half of the post is him simply inflating the RVS wagon as a reason to call me scum. He tries desperately to reach for a point saying that the RVS wagon can be used as a connection case between Me/Afro/WL. Simply put and to keep it concise, it's utter bull****. The RVS wagon was completely a joke against me (which is the normal in DGames, just check the newest edition of the semen meme) and zen(who had just fumbled in Super Heroes). Also notice how EE doesn't even mention his part in the wagon where he was the one to put me at L-1 (and where he kept his vote).
- Next he tries to bring up a meta argument that I usually buddy my scum-mates which is a lie that we all know. Circus, you have info saying otherwsie because of Mafia Royal Sleepover. In fact, I have never buddied my scum-mates and the only game that could be said I do so is Bingo mafia and even then I was the prime bus by the mafia traitor! Also if we wanna talk about buddying, what about Afro's/WL's constant buddying of promoting EE being super-duper obvtown? There was a blantant disconnection between Afro/EE D1 and the only time Afro commented on EE was to say he was town and the only time EE commented on Afro was to complain of his inactivity. WL on the other hand even wrote a post that shows the incredible fakeness of promoting EE. I would also like to bring up EE saying the null tells argument. He even used me as an example being that I AtE AND Buddy regardless of alignment so therefore it's a null-tell. Yet he tries to use that as a reason to call me scum? Are you seeing the BS yet?
-He then tries to manipulate that I was calling my scum-buddies town with my other town reads but guess what EE? READS CHANGE. Practice what you preach because you said yesterDay that reads change and that I shouldn't be quibbling over what was said D1. Yet when it comes up as ammo you can use against me you change your tune. However even then that is a weak connection because the argument could be brought up that normally wouldn't I put my scum-reads in the nulls/leaning scummy? Or at least not have both of them as town? Oh wait, isn't that what you did? Huh you tell tales but forget your own.
-Then let's go into my Ranmaru read since you brought it up. He was playing scummy and guess what you forget to mention as well EE, you even FoS'd Ranmaru yourself (while withholding your vote against your super-duper mega scum-pick at the time). But no you go into the WIFOM of me doing that to safe WL and that I was clearly just doing all that because of "X, Y, Z" but x100 for emphasis.
-You also say Ryker was NK'd because he was targetting me/WL D1? What is with you and delving into the NK WIFOM and trying to use that as ammo against your opponent? It's weak and can't be substantiated by anything.
-I find it hilarious he doesn't even touch my defense but he has the time to over-analyze and over inflate pretty much every other post I have made. You say my defense is outdated and over-bloated. Such hypocrisy in that statement because that is exactly what you are doing. You call my defense over-bloated but it was actually 3 cases+defense and that it is outdated info. Isn't your case "outdated info"? Don't even get me started on the over-bloated thing because I will want to post gifs to explain but I am so disgusted about using gifs I doubt I will ever use them again.
-An interesting point, you bring up that Afro's random hammer of Gord was weird because he had been pushing me but in your very next case you say "I am not going into J's offense on Gahndi because using that reason a.k.a. the hammer as a reason is dumb?" You are making contradictions.

======

Now let's go into EE's play during D1.

EE did absolutely nothing D1. The most he did was post a case by me and just let it sit. When he asked questions he never followed through with the answers he got and seemed to just ask the questions to just ask them. A.K.A. Pseudo-scum-hunting. Then when the J case goes nowhere he complains like a little child and asks for everyone to comment on it and begs for people to please give insight. From this a contradiction arises in Afro. He calls me out for wanting people to comment on my defense against EE which is what I never did and there are quotes to back this up. Yet he never comments on EE practically begging for people to comment on his Jcase but instead calls him town because of it. Then WL comes along and says "Hurr durr you are so good EE, J is scum." I would also like to bring up in the time of this quote EE had never voted me but UNVOTED me when the time came for it. After he asked people to un-forget me, he did nothing with anyone's responses and the most he did was just continue to mafia arm-chair critic post. He rolls in around after my defense and seems just as gung-ho as everyone else about the Gordito lynch, he even offered to hammer. Does he see fit to mention this now? Yet he never explains what compelled him to switch off his super-duper scum-read that he hasn't voted for since the RVS incident. In fact he never even pushed me that hard, he just stuck a case there and let it sit.

That's D1 now onto the rest of the game.

 

[Circus]

Circus, I want you to be brutally honest with me. Do you even care what I have to say against either of EE's walls?

Yes. I find EE's walls extremely persuasive, but I'm giving you an honest opportunity here. It's up to you to take it, as daunting a task as it may seem. If there are weak spots in those walls, then this your chance to knock them down. If you don't think you have anything really compelling to say against what EE has brought up (or anything to say against EE, independent of his walls), then you can just tell me that you're scum now and I'll go ahead and put you out of your misery. Or hell, you can self-hammer if you really want to. But that's your call. You can choose to fight, or you can choose to give up. I'm just warning you that, if you're choosing to fight, then you're going to have to bring your biggest knife if you want to stand a chance in my mind.

Have you even re-read this game?

Myself? No. Though I feel like I have after reading EE's posts. If you have things that you specifically want me to look at (exchanges between certain players or certain Days that you think were particularly revealing), go ahead and give me some directions and I'll check them out. But I'm not going to do your work for you. I may try reading over the game before I make my final decision before deadline, just to try to get my own opinion really settled outside of the input I get from you guys, but I'm not finding that necessary right now. And even so, you can't expect me to reread the game and just come to a town conclusion on you after what EE has presented. I'm going to need more from you than what you've given so far. I don't see everything. You have to show me what I'm missing. One of the biggest things that EE has done which makes his case so convincing is provide possible intent behind players' posts that leads to motives I hadn't considered before. If you're town, then you know EE is scum and can examine his play in this game with that knowledge. You have to present EE's play to me in a way that I, as a less informed party, can see it for what it really is. Based on his interplay with the flipped scum, based on his voting history, based on whatever it is you think matters. But you have to make the points yourself.

You say you are giving me the benefit of the doubt, but from my PoV no you aren't. You just sound as if you are having me post to be fair and that you don't care because EE has manipulated you to the hardest degree.

I wouldn't do that to you. Hell, I wouldn't do that to me. If I really didn't care about what you had to say at all, then this game would be over right now. You still have a chance to make your case here; I'm just letting you know where my head's at. The way you decide to play with that information is up to you.

I know that trying to roll a boulder uphill is a **** job, but complaining about it isn't going to get it done. You have to start actually pushing.

 

[Circus]

NinJaaaaaaaa.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm sorry but I have to leave soon for about 2 hours and then go chill with some chicks. I'll be back after that and get to debunking EE's 2nd case and presenting my D2 view of EE and possibly D3 since he doesn't have much material for either day.

I know I am complaining alot but I don't know what to say about it, regardless though I'm not really mad or the like it's just getting annoying to do so much and then this stuff happens.

 

[Circus]

Okay I'm just gonna refute this quick but first off I have something to say to you Circus.

Remember D1 when I made my two huge defense walls? Do you remember what you said during those times? You said you were not going to read them because of the fact that they seem long and I doubt you have ever even read those defense. However when EE comes around with the biggest most superfluous wall in the history of DGames you read it and say "Omg EE you are like soooo amazing and like just goodness me I am infatuated with what you did.". I mean personally it's like a smack in the face because you hold a double standard and biased just because it's EE and you expected something. You even made me give you spark-notes to my 3 cases+Defense because it was long but when EE does it, oh no god forbid someone ask him to crunch his post down. Then when he does it again with his D2 post you act even more infatuated with what he has just presented.

Before I even read the rest of your post, I'm just going to respond to this, because I figured you would bring this up. And the fact that you did does not shine a very attractive light upon you.

The circumstances between EE's walls and yours are completely different. In fact, they actually hold almost nothing in common, aside from the fact that they're all very long. Yes, in general, I dislike having to deal with long posts, but there are several key differences that make EE's recent posts not only fine, but arguably necessary, while your posts were anything but.

EE's posts are him doing exactly what he needs to do, in endgame, to win. He's not defending himself; he's attacking you. And really, he's not exactly attacking you so much as he's talking to me about you. And that's exactly what should be happening. There are no other players left; there is nothing else to discuss. The only thing to examine here is you v. him, and how you each relate to past actions and flipped players. It is not just the central focus of toDay; it is the only focus left for the game.

Your posts from D1 are not even comparable to this. You posted them at the very end of D1, during the chaos of trying to find a D1 lynch which, as you know, is the biggest scramble of the game because of how little information we have to base it on. It is not the time for self-preserving posts like yours. There were lots of other people to try to get reads on and there were lots of other accusations being made that needed to be addressed. Dealing with your giant defense of yourself (which was triggered by your own inflated sense of how against the ropes you were—in truth, you weren't in as tight a corner as you thought you were), just added noise to an already noisy situation. In the midst of trying to scramble the entire starting roster into deciding on a majority that would be willing to lynch someone specific, you drop a couple of giants posts full of fluff just talking about how totally town you are. You were not helping town find a proper lynch; you were not trying to gain any information for the town; you were not trying to gain any information for your own reads. You were, I will emphasize again, unnecessarily defending yourself from the heat you had received that Day, when we had more important things to be figuring out. It was just a big distraction.

And your defense posts were not filled with enough substance to justify their length. There were portions of your defense where you just conceded to your attacker (btw, Washed did that too). The big event that was "J's Super Defense for Great Honor and Glory" was of your own design—you inflicted it upon yourself, for no reason other than to make yourself look town, which is not a townie's main objective.

The exact opposite is true of EE's posts.

EE's posts are actively helpful and persuasive. EE's posts suggest legitimate interest in convincing me to lynch scum. Your D1 defense posts suggested paranoid scum trying to get his own neck off the chopping block before it had even really gotten there, while everyone else was busy trying to put out fires elsewhere. EE's walls are not about proving to me how townie he is, or bragging about what he's gotten right so far, or really anything about himself. He's showing me, in a very, very, very long and exhaustive way, why you look more likely to be scum. That's the way it's done.

Focus on things that are actually going to help me think EE is scum, rather than just complaining about how unfair you think I am. Whether you like it or not, I'm the obstacle you have to cross in order to win, and whining about what you perceive to be a double standard does not do anything to change the read I have on you, nor the read I have on EE. You have my permission and encouragement to make your posts as long and comprehensive as you think necessary for this situation. Just make them actually count.

 

[#HBC | J]

I have so much disgust looking at Circus' 2833 because of how wrong it is.

Back to the other important things though:

D2

EE during D2 didn't push anyone but continued to just sit there and do nothing. (Yes apparantly you two have info about that one game that distracted him more in that game but honestly it does call to bring up that he simply was a non-presense all game till now.) His D2 play was him just sitting on the fence not pushing anyone or anything. The most he did was continue to defend Circus his townBro when I was gunning for him for a majority of D2. I continued to push that Circus vs. WL was S/T and I had Circus as the scummy. Afro was also on my radar from what I said in twilight and when asked after much berating I did come up with why I found Afro scummy. When WL does his stunt he comes in and just says, "WL u so scummy y." and says that he is pumped because of a scum-lynch always sets his fire. This wasn't true because he didn't do much of anything D3. He continued to psuedo-scum-hunt throughout the entire day and never really follow up on questions he asked. There was even a couple of posts where EE had brought up something that was a direct question to WL.

[Collapse=Evil Eye/WL]

Really though, what the hell are you talking about? Who's "people" here? Who's "you"? Is that supposed to be Gandhi and Jerkus, respectively? Because if so that's some hyperbolic bull **** right there friendo

oh

10oreohs

@J: I wasn't aware I'd already offered a read on Circus. I like Circus, and have liked him, because has brought up legitimate issues with users that often mirror my own thoughts. And the logic by which he reaches them is good.

Completely agreed with him in your spat, by the way. His suspicions of Laundry have been rather apparent to me this entire time, while you've teased revelations about Gandhi and kept them to yourself. While simultaneously offering town reads for no particularly good reason. Hiding scumpicks and showing town reads? What is this, opposite day?

J, what's your read on RR? On Soup?

[/collapse]

This is a perfect example of what EE has done a majority of the game, he questions people and when people answer with whatever he doesn't do anything but move onto the current topic and buddy whoever has the most town points. Here EE questions WL and when WL just goes "Oh" he doesn't do anything? What the hell is this? The third post is the very next post he makes but he ignores WL's response and just focuses on buddying Circus. Also he never pushed WL at all but continued to just sideline whatever happened. Most if not all of his D2 play was him saying "Don't worry guys! Got a post coming! Gonna lynch dem scummies" and buddying of Circus throughout. Yet he never followed through. Never did a post surface or anything.

So yeah D2 = Inactive/do nothing EE. He just promised stuff which he never followed through on, asked questions that he never followed through on, and buddied Circus.

 

[#HBC | J]

D3

Okay well going into D3 we pretty much see a carbon copy of what EE had done D2. Except now he actually seems to be putting some effort. It was insanely weird why EE had decided to post an Afro case because everyone had been wanting him to be lynched yet he just did it to do it it seems. There was no point of it whatsoever besides to just look like that he wasn't bussing Afro. The timing was also off because Afro was literally at L-1. RR brought up some points saying that he thought that the scum-team would most likely be Circus/Afro/EE in that order and EE's next post was just him RR was dumb and it dropped. I would like to bring up a weird note, EE didn't vote Afro after his cases. In fact, EE never voted Afro or WL in the entire process of the game. The most of anything you see from EE is these cute little jabs after his first J case. He's ridden his way here to LyLo based purely on his Circus buddying.

As you may notice a similarity with the D2/D3 paragraphs that they are small and not much but still have points to them. It's simply because EE has done nothing much at all.

D4 coming up shortly.

 

[#HBC | J]

Now onto D4 which is by far the scummiest of them all for EE.

Evil Eye throughout this entire day actually did something that can be talked about in more then just one paragraph! A major point is his Gheb push. The entire town seemed to be leaning towards Gheb however EE started to begin the poking of it all. He said "You pushed Circus HAAAAAAARD yesterDay bro. Like insanely hard." which is just a fallacy. Gheb did no such thing at all. In fact, EE has the story backwards. I was the one pushing Circus hard and there are walls of battling to back this up. In fact I even ask EE a question about Gheb's push on Circus and here are the quotes that follow.

[collapse=Evil Eye's reasoning on Gheb's push]

EE, can you tell me how Gheb has been pushing Circus extremely hard within these posts?

[collapse=Gheb D3]
[/collapse]

J, think for yourself. Gheb didn't make a lot of posts on D3, but with the posts he made, he pushed Circus. Despite Gandhi's play. Despite the cop clear. He didn't stop pushing Jerkus until the momentum stalled, but all the while was willing to let you take point on the push for him.

Like I said, the only actual move he made toward a Gandhi lynch was the abrupt 180, and a quickhammer nobody but him wanted.

Well EE, couldn't the same be said to me using that logic?

Sans the quickhammer.

...what's your point, J?

You asked me to show you how he pushed Jerkus in those posts. And I did.

The fact that he abruptly 180'd on the issue and quickhammered, while you seemed to move more organically to Gandhi's lynch has everything to do with it. And the way Gheb let you push Jerkus while leaving his vote there, and without adding much to the push, just looks like him using you as a meatshield.

Well my bad seems I didn't clarify what I wanted.

You said he pushed Circus extremely hard, I don't see that in those posts. You also just said he just left his vote on Cirucs without adding much to the push and used me as a meatshield seems contradicting.

So what did he do, did he push Circus extremely hard or did he just use me as a meatshield?

This is what happens when you tunnel people, J. You badger and badger and badger away, and you try to pry out contradictions that aren't there.

I just said he pushed Jerkus hard. I didn't use an special qualifiers to paint him as foaming at the mouth for the lynch. With what little Gheb said at all, he was after Jerkus, in place of Gandhi. And he kept at it.

He didn't ADD much, no. That has nothing to do with the degree to which he was trying to get Jerkus lynched. It just means he wasn't producing anything compelling, and he wasn't the loudest voice on the stage. You, meanwhile, were all over Jerkus. This suited the cause of a scum Gheb trying to get Jerkus lynched and, in the grander scheme of things, trying to win the game in general.

Thank you for clarifying, now I understand what you meant.

[/collapse]

At the end of all this I just decide to drop the argument and nod because EE was just becoming to not make sense anymore. There was a contradiction in his whole talk about Gheb's push being hard that at the beginning of the day EE had pointed Gheb as foaming at the mouth for Circus' lynch but then he goes back on it and says that actually I was an that Gheb was using me as a meat-sheild. Then when I ask "What is it, one or the other?" he says that I am just being dumb and badgering him and tunnelying him to extreme lengths. No offense but da hell at tunneling EE of all people? He has been my most consistent null-read the entire game after D1. So basically his major reasoning for GhebScum was a load of bull. However Circus didn't catch onto this biggest he is becoming more and more his whipping boy plus the fact that Circus was tunneling Gheb on complete garbage conjecture as well.

Let's move onto the next thing he does which was respond to my half-and-half post. If you recall I was "happy" with that post. Absolutely not because that was just part of what I was doing. I needed to make it seem as if Gheb had no shot of convincing me because that is where Gheb really gets aggravated a bit. I just came from a game where I unintentionally riled up Gheb and caused him to flip a switch which lead me to read him a whole lot better so I decided to do this test. EE's post was really fluffy. He over-analyzed the questions and answered them with extreme caution which I didn't like at all. He was trying too hard to answer those questions correctly and when a point came up that he didn't like he just said to go back and read and see what he actually has done. What he has actually done is a whole lot of nothing. He also conflicts some things he has said prior to the game. He also says he has never been consistently wrong? Well alright then, I'll get to that later.

Next is a little part of EE that shows pure manipulation of what Gheb did.

Oh, hey. There's that vote that, based on Gheb's content, he should have made pages ago. Coming in at the most convenient possible time, no less. With Jerkus expressing doubts of ol' EE and EE himself having missed the boat on a reread opportunity that could have ended in a vote, you slip the vote in like a shank. Putting me in a bind where everybody looks at me with cross eyes because "Why would Gheb do that anyway???" and placing a wall between me and my ability to vote you without looking like I'm incriminating myself. That about right?

Slick, but not good enough.

Gheb had been saying it was between J/EE since the Day started and he had even been expressing opinion on favouring an EE lynch over a J lynch. Yet right as Gheb votes EE, EE says "Oh the vote doesn't matter because he is only voting because Circus is expressing doubt in me." It was a strawman of why he voted. Damn scummy sir.

Next thing to bring up, EE has done another slip. He has been calling Gheb scum the entire time and the day had been forming up to be an EE or Gheb lynch. But even after EE had finished making his poorly constructed case on Gheb, he never voted him. Similar eh? Though no one pushed him on it because he was away at the time (though I brought up that it was weird for the second time.)

Finally we come to the Gheb vs. Me battle which finished my plan up in a fell swoop. Gheb had gotten angry at the time and legitamately thought I had hammered him at the time of discussion so what I was talking to was the real Gheb. If he was scum and thought he was truly hammered, he wouldn't have talked the way he did because the game would have been over. There is also the ditzy question I asked both of the ancients(EE/Circus). Is Gheb a ditzy blonde? Hell no. He is analytical and certainly not the type to a.) forget his own role to a point of sounding stupid because he forgot about the janitor. and b.) the way he acted when he thought he was hammered. c.) Why as scum would he even vote Circus besides pursing his scum read? Like my god that move in itself was major frustrated town vibes to Circus' logic. He had every right to be mad at Circus because his logic was bad for Gheb scum but EE's reasoning was even worse because it was a misconstruement of Gheb's actions instead of a bad meta/connection case. (oh look that's a majority of EE's case there! Trying to connect me to the scum-buddies and not actually focusing on the scumminess I have done.)

I have not been "sitting in a corner going 'Gheb is scum Gheb is scum'." That's a ****ing outrageous misrepresentation of just, every god damn thing I've been doing.

jesus christ I ****ing hate this game.

Vote: Gheb

This is EE responding to something RR said. He says he isn't and he AtE's his point home but when reality...that is all he had done. He came up with BS reasoning to call Gheb scum and also continued to just say "Gheb scum yo." Now let's go back to his Jscum case. That's exactly what he did there as well. He just posted it and said "Jscum scum yo." but never push it. He hasn't pushed a single damn thing this game till now! His Afro case was pure opportunistic bussing at it's finest. His push on Gheb, almost a carbon copy to what he did to Afro. His J case? He focused on the most talked about person D1. He is doing the same thing over and over and you are simply following him Circus.

EE: Extremely opportunistic and uses selective / inaccurate accusations - accuses me because of me attacking Circus [doesn't mention that my accusations were legitimate], which isn't a scumtell. Discredits my push against WashedLaundry, which was way more decisive / conclusive than my "push" against Circus. This is a clear misconstruction of the facts FOR NOTHING BUT HIS OWN BENEFIT HOW MUCH SCUMMIER DOES IT GET GOGDAMMIT. His argumentation is highly manipulative and a lot of things are cherrypicked / swept under the rug to make his cases look way more substantial than they are.

Look at this Circus. Look at it hard because it is exactly the truth of what he Evil Eye had done and Gheb was 100% on the right track. D4 he misconstrued so many things that both Gheb and I have pointed out lately but you didn't want to hear anything of it. All of his argumentation is manipulative BS.

Gheb was 100% right while you were dead wrong on EE.

D4 is the day I wanted to capitalize on and now I am gonna move onto another post I have.

 

[Evil Eye]

Ugh. Lack of sleep is catching up to me, so I might have to go to bed and roll my sleeves up tomorrow.

However I'd like to say that J's D3 in particular is just a ****ty and haphazardly slapped together rehash of his push on me from D4, which I've already refuted. To an almost prophetic degree. And yet here he is, saying some of the same ****, verbatim.

In particular, read my responses starting with "First of all, no it didn't." and also "This is a ridiculous repainting of what happened."

J's reply was EXCELLENT WORK, YOU HAVE SOLVED THE RIDDLE! ALL THE GAPING HOLES IN MY ARGUMENT WERE DELIBERATE. He reiterated this fact later while pressuring Gheb, to justify his coming off of me and moving back onto Gheb.

This is some bull**** right hurr.

 

[#HBC | J]

However I'd like to say that J's D3 in particular is just a ****ty and haphazardly slapped together rehash of his push on me from D4, which I've already refuted. To an almost prophetic degree. And yet here he is, saying some of the same ****, verbatim.

You bring up a quote from D4 to argue my D3 paragraph. Nice. I also explained all of that as well.

In particular, read my responses starting with "First of all, no it didn't." and also "This is a ridiculous repainting of what happened."

J's reply was EXCELLENT WORK, YOU HAVE SOLVED THE RIDDLE! ALL THE GAPING HOLES IN MY ARGUMENT WERE DELIBERATE. He reiterated this fact later while pressuring Gheb, to justify his coming off of me and moving back onto Gheb.

This is some bull**** right hurr.

Get some sleep, then read. I already explained that as well in my posts.

 

[Evil Eye]

....are you ****ing kidding me.

I brought up a quote from D4 to answer to your D3 because that quote answered to you making the same arguments about D3 and showed clear, undeniable lies in your analysis of D3.

And you're still using those points.

You can try to weave your reactions into your Master Plan if you want. The fact of the matter is your pressure was **** and contained not only excessive reframing of what was going but lies (I cannot stress this enough). How can I "try too hard" to answer something like that "correctly"? Am I supposed to answer it incorrectly? Should I not break down pressure that is crap right down to the marrow? What's fluffy about that? Do you even know what fluffy means? What were you looking for? A less thorough answer to thorough (and thoroughly bad) questioning?

No, you applied **** pressure and in reaction to my answering "too correctly" you backed off and went after Gheb. And afterward you swept it all into a dustpan as part of a grand Master Plan, and are continuing to do so, which of course apparently absolves you of all those ridiculous fallacies and (gonna stress it again, maybe third time's the charm) lies.

Except you're still using those same points, and those same lies.

Jesus christ.

Alright. This is my last post on the matter until you're done. Finish your **** and I'll take the floor tomorrow.

 

[Evil Eye]

...or whenever.

I might be riled up enough to stay up now.