Pros+Cons of each character.

[Célja]

Pokemon Trainer:
Pros: 3 characters in one, can adapt to many situations that doesn't include MK.
Con: Stage Recovery, Fatigue, Ivysaur (lol jk, I <3 my Saur), Not being Pokemon Trainer Red.

 

[ElDominio]

I came into this thread expecting the worst, and I have to say.

Awesome thread. About time.

 

[DBSammy]

Luigi
Pro: Jab, Shoryuken, N-air, Recovery, Killing Power, Overall Aerial Prowess
Pro/Con: Traction
Con: Keep him further than jab distance, you win <- Pretty damn easy for a lot of characters

@FalconsFist/Chase
PT Garbage bro.

 

[B.A.M.]

80% of the people in this thread have no clue what theyre talking about fyi. Seriously this thread is going to misinform new players.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

can we get started my basing these on more actual smash facts?

Pikachu

Con: Strategies rely a lot on projectiles.

I don't really know...

 

[Célja]

@FalconsFist/Chase
PT Garbage bro.

At least my head doesn't get stuck in a wall bro.

 

[BlueXenon]

I updated it.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

80% of the people in this thread have no clue what theyre talking about fyi. Seriously this thread is going to misinform new players.

Is that so? And where are YOUR credentials? Where do you
get the right to criticize peple's advice on charecters they know
and YOU do not know?

If you want to back that up, why don't you go through and correct
EVERY "misleading" peice of advice, starting with mine several posts
up?

 

[PersonallyIPreferDair]

Ness: Cons Long grab release animation.

Lucas: Pros Has the best pummel in the game. Pivot grab cuts down ending lag.

 

[Gardex]

It's a con to be lightweight when you're Falco, G&W, Squirtle, Sheik, Jigglypuff, Fox and ZSS, but not when you're MK(among others)

Sounds legit.

 

[Doc King]

For King Dedede, you could put in that he has good followups, infinites, Best RCO Lag punisher, and good power overall.

 

[Commander_Beef]

About Dedede; I've mained him since the beginning. Check the boards for my credentials:
1. He cannot kill early RELIABLY. His Up tilt's hitbox makes it hard to land, and his down smash is a tad slow. His back air is his best kill move, but should be used throughout his games (becomes stale) since he's not the character he is without it. ForwardAir is good, but just as laggy as down smash. If anything, his killing power is decent, but is not GREAT. Remove that as a strength/pro please.

2. What GREAT combos does he have besides his chaingrab, and his chaingrab --> down tilt on some chars? Just ones with down air (if they are combos), the rest are setups. He doesn't have combo-combos; remove that from the list of pros as well.

3. His greatest weaknesses/cons are: approaching, a general lack of options, slowness (especially air speed) which is complemented by being EASILY punished AND juggled.

Anybody willing to argue? Try me.


I also want to know if the editor, BlueZelda, is really valuing what I'm saying, so get back at me when you can. I don't want false claims in the OP about Dedede.

 

[BlueXenon]

About Dedede; I've mained him since the beginning. Check the boards for my credentials:
1. He cannot kill early RELIABLY. His Up tilt's hitbox makes it hard to land, and his down smash is a tad slow. His back air is his best kill move, but should be used throughout his games (becomes stale) since he's not the character he is without it. ForwardAir is good, but just as laggy as down smash. If anything, his killing power is decent, but is not GREAT. Remove that as a strength/pro please.

2. What GREAT combos does he have besides his chaingrab, and his chaingrab --> down tilt on some chars? Just ones with down air (if they are combos), the rest are setups. He doesn't have combo-combos; remove that from the list of pros as well.

3. His greatest weaknesses/cons are: approaching, a general lack of options, slowness (especially air speed) which is complemented by being EASILY punished AND juggled.

Anybody willing to argue? Try me.


I also want to know if the editor, BlueZelda, is really valuing what I'm saying, so get back at me when you can. I don't want false claims in the OP about Dedede.

I add in what people tell me to add as long as it seems right. I'll change it to what you said since your a DDD main and what you said seems right.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Oh.... all right then. That was easy.
Yeah just that small adjustment and DDD looks fine.

He has a total of 4 jumps, really.
And just to make his pros+cons look more concise, remove the irreflectable projectile thing, seeing as how it doesn't carry much importance for it to be a strength.

 

[BlueXenon]

Oh.... all right then. That was easy.
Yeah just that small adjustment and DDD looks fine.

He has a total of 4 jumps, really.
And just to make his pros+cons look more concise, remove the irreflectable projectile thing, seeing as how it doesn't carry much importance for it to be a strength.

Fixed it. Can you please help with Link?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I see Beef posted but I am going to post also just because.

For me D3s strong points lie in:

His impressive grab range. Tied for best non-tether grab range with

His weight and very high durability. Combine this with his fast fall speed and he is the HARDEST character to kill off the stop.

He has a strong zoning and spacing game.

Chaingrab gives him good damage racking and possible follow up. Tech chasing on non CGables still offer us a positional advantage and the chance to punish hard.

He has pretty legit killing power as well.


His cons are pretty numerous though:

Gets combo easily due to his weight and fast fall speed.

Has no real projectile and gets camped pretty hard.

His recovery covers a good distance but is REALLY punishable. If you get predictable you get ****ed really hard. Especially against MKs. Its a stock if they do it right.

He's pretty damn slow.

He's not good at approaching at all.

His overall moveset is really limited and requires the player to be very creative and proactive in their reads.

His killing moves are incredibly slow or telegraphed. His only reliable one Bair will almost always be stale when it comes time.

 

[Fuujin]

D3

Has no real projectile

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Waddle_Dee_Toss

 

[smashkng]

Ike can get amazing rewards for getting reads in and many of them cover a lot of options at the same time because of their huge hitboxes (best example is Usmash). He also has a great shield dash (he slides pretty far and can shield very early). Ike has a decent grab game and that includes a But Ike can't afford any misspacings on his attacks. His options are generally limited to Jab, grab and aerials. He only has 3 attacks with fast start-up (jab, grab and Bair). His aerials have a lot of aerial cooldown (this does NOT include landing lag or autocanceling frames) though that's not that big of an issue because of their range. He's pretty easy to juggle as well because of his relatively limited options in the air.

And Falco should have "has a hard time landing kill moves" in his cons.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Waddle_Dee_Toss

I'm sorry but try to use Waddle as a traditional camping tool and see how far that gets you against anyone who has decent/good mobility or an actual projectile. Waddles are far from an actual projectile.

 

[Fuujin]

I'm sorry but try to use Waddle as a traditional camping tool and see how far that gets you against anyone who has decent/good mobility or an actual projectile. Waddles are far from an actual projectile.

Pretty sure it still counts a "real projectile", it may not be a very good or effective one but it still counts as a projectile.

 

[deepseadiva]

Hooray for nitpicking.

 

[_Keno_]

"Peach - Almost no second jump"

I would say that her second jump gives peach a very needed horizontal thrust. Its very good when combined with bair.

Her vertical recovery is not terrible... but it and her horizontal recovery are terribly slow and predictable.

All auto-canceled aerials is a good one to add too, especially with her jab speed.

 

[BlueXenon]

"Peach - Almost no second jump"

I would say that her second jump gives peach a very needed horizontal thrust. Its very good when combined with bair.

Her vertical recovery is not terrible... but it and her horizontal recovery are terribly slow and predictable.

All auto-canceled aerials is a good one to add too, especially with her jab speed.

I know Peach's second jump helps her, but it isn't as good as most second jumps.Her vertical recovery is terrible because it has a small edge sweetspot and it can't go on the edge backwards. And good peach players know how to use her horizontal recovery with out being too predictable.

 

[DarkISDA]

Please help with Link


Pros~ Up grab can KO at 150%, excels when he is not near anyone, down special absorbs projectiles and removes some damage(great for team brawls when team attack is on) good side smash(It's also a reflector).
Cons~ difficult to recover, short ranged, long grab release animation.

I don't know if his up-throw can really KO at 150%, but I'm fairly sure his back-throw is stronger. Might want to add it.

 

[Makke]

.....................

 

[-LzR-]

Please help with Link


Pros~ 6 jumps, best air game, can KO early.
Cons~ very light weight ( 2nd to easiest character to KO), KO'd if shield breaks, hard to combo with, very short ranged.

Who did this? It's like the most wrong thing ever!

Best air game? No no no no no no. Not at all. Her air game is above average imo.

Can KO early? WHAT? Not being able to kill for **** is like the biggest reason she sucks.

She also actually has one of the best combos in the game from my experience. Her moves chain together well and 3 hit or more combos are totally the backbone of your game.
UPDATEUPDATEUPDATE

 

[BlueXenon]

Who did this? It's like the most wrong thing ever!

Best air game? No no no no no no. Not at all. Her air game is above average imo.

Can KO early? WHAT? Not being able to kill for **** is like the biggest reason she sucks.

She also actually has one of the best combos in the game from my experience. Her moves chain together well and 3 hit or more combos are totally the backbone of your game.
UPDATEUPDATEUPDATE

I updated it. Can you please help with Link?

 

[Jebu-95]

Link sucks

 

[Makke]

.........................

 

[DarkISDA]

I updated it. Can you please help with Link?

Pro: fast fall.

con: fast fall.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Pros~ Low crouch, great edge guarder, great matchups overall, one of teh best in double battles, can KO very early (Judgement 9 or bucket), can absorb energy projectiles, overall very high priority moves

Cons~ unreliable projectile (No "bad" really, just unreliable) Predictable? depends on the player ofc, DDD/ICs are predictable. problems with disjointed hitboxes, poor groundgame (maybe the worst in the game) Very much lightweight.


update plz!!!!!!

Not to mention when up against the Ice Climbers he is the easiest character to grab. Don't believe me? Go to "training" and try it yourself and you'll be surprised...

 

[Makke]

.....................

 

[smashkng]

Link:
Pros Great Zair, disjointed hitboxes, he has tons of ATs, decent projectiles and good Bair and Nair

Cons: He can't camp very well with his projectiles because they have slow start-up and ending lag which means he lacks good GTFO moves, almost every AT he has is next to useless, terrible frame data, poor mobility and jumps, his moves are weak for him being so slow

Link doesn't have many strenghs and they all get outclassed by other characters unfortunately

 

[BlueXenon]

Pros~ Low crouch, great edge guarder, great matchups overall, one of teh best in double battles, can KO very early (Judgement 9 or bucket), can absorb energy projectiles, overall very high priority moves

Cons~ unreliable projectile (No "bad" really, just unreliable) Predictable? depends on the player ofc, DDD/ICs are predictable. problems with disjointed hitboxes, poor groundgame (maybe the worst in the game) Very much lightweight.


update plz!!!!!!

I updated it.

 

[Azula]

Olimar: Whistle has super-armor, high priority on non-pikmin attacks

Falco: Side-B (phantasm) + lasers are great for camping

Donkey Kong: Down-B has great range and covers against shield dodges, B-Air is one of the best and is great for spacing, Back throw can kill when near edge

 

[BlueXenon]

^ Thanks. I updated it.

 

[Makke]

....................

 

[BlueXenon]

^Thanks. I added some of it.

 

[infiniteV115]

ZSS

Pros
Fantastic aerial game
Decent ground game
Excellent running speed
Good horizontal air speed
Great rising air speed
Good speed (low startup) on most attacks
Good range overall, especially on aerials
Good spacing game with the use of neutral-b, side-b and dsmash
Great at juggling
Fairly good kill power with reliable kill moves
Good recovery
Good at edgeguarding a decent amount of characters
Good at stringing attacks together
Good grab range
Tall + amazing aerials = grab release shenanigans on a few characters
Can fthrow chaingrab a few characters
High jumps
Starts off game with 3 powerful items (suit pieces) that have good speed, knockback, damage and can bounce.
Good glide tosses
Dsmash allows for 3 infinites (Diddy using banana, Wario using tire, ROB cause lolhe'srob) and dsmash + footstool offstage is a guaranteed kill on many characters if done correctly.
Good forward roll
Low crawl
Can dash-attack-lock every character except Kirby at a certain % range
Can dsmash-lock a few characters

Cons
Very light
Cannot trouble dealing with shield pressure
Bad dair = has trouble when she is above the opponent (and in the air)
Long startup on grab = shieldgrabbing usually doesn't work
Horribly long ending lag on grab = easily punished if a grab misses, so grab must be used sparingly
Most attacks don't do much damage individually
Has trouble approaching certain characters
Has trouble getting back on stage (from the edge) against certain characters (or maybe that's just me)
Terrible back roll = can't usually be used safely
Can't glide toss out of a back roll
Crouch isn't as low as crawl = must crawl continuously to keep low
Recovery is bad if she is knocked out of her down-b.
Dsmash & side-b have some startup lag (they are still usable though)
Neutral-b has some startup lag, is slow and doesn't go very far.
Neutral-b can only be completely uncharged or completely charged. (You can't half-way charge it or anything like that)
High short hop makes it harder to use

 

[BlueXenon]

ZSS

Pros
Fantastic aerial game
Decent ground game
Excellent running speed
Good horizontal air speed
Great rising air speed
Good speed (low startup) on most attacks
Good range overall, especially on aerials
Good spacing game with the use of neutral-b, side-b and dsmash
Great at juggling
Fairly good kill power with reliable kill moves
Good recovery
Good at edgeguarding a decent amount of characters
Good at stringing attacks together
Good grab range
Tall + amazing aerials = grab release shenanigans on a few characters
Can fthrow chaingrab a few characters
High jumps
Starts off game with 3 powerful items (suit pieces) that have good speed, knockback, damage and can bounce.
Good glide tosses
Dsmash allows for 3 infinites (Diddy using banana, Wario using tire, ROB cause lolhe'srob) and dsmash + footstool offstage is a guaranteed kill on many characters if done correctly.
Good forward roll
Low crawl
Can dash-attack-lock every character except Kirby at a certain % range
Can dsmash-lock a few characters

Cons
Very light
Cannot trouble dealing with shield pressure
Bad dair = has trouble when she is above the opponent (and in the air)
Long startup on grab = shieldgrabbing usually doesn't work
Horribly long ending lag on grab = easily punished if a grab misses, so grab must be used sparingly
Most attacks don't do much damage individually
Has trouble approaching certain characters
Has trouble getting back on stage (from the edge) against certain characters (or maybe that's just me)
Terrible back roll = can't usually be used safely
Can't glide toss out of a back roll
Crouch isn't as low as crawl = must crawl continuously to keep low
Recovery is bad if she is knocked out of her down-b.
Dsmash & side-b have some startup lag (they are still usable though)
Neutral-b has some startup lag, is slow and doesn't go very far.
Neutral-b can only be completely uncharged or completely charged. (You can't half-way charge it or anything like that)
High short hop makes it harder to use

Thanks. I updated ZSS.