Project Proposal: We can make custom moves fast, easy, and legal

[ChronoPenguin]

That's cumbersome.
It's not lengthy to just have them select the moves. All you need is the sizes.
No one is going to make what 81 different sets for each size of Mii per Wii U.

 

[Luco]

We can always use default miis for the sets and then have those players choose the most popular ones based on what they want for their particular mii.

I dunno, I doubt the Miis will be too big of an issue though.

To update you, Ness boards have gotten on board with this really well, we've figured out all but 3 of our sets and 1 of those 3 might be agreed on already, not sure just yet.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I mean if the point is convenience when it comes to Mii's and Paletuna everything the game ships with everything available so set limits aren't really a qualm while appeasing the logistics.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I uploaded a version of the Bowser Jr. thread onto Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/c...al_standard_custom_moveset_project_bowser_jr/

Does anyone want to upvote it to help it not fall by the wayside?

----

Speaking of statuses. The Ganon board is progressing pretty well.

2322 seems to be a pretty popular combination, and has made the top 3 already. It's now a bit of a toss up between some other moves.

One big snag has been figuring out which neutral people prefer where.

 

[QuickLava]

I think for Mii's we could ask specifically about sets for neutral height/weight Mii's if anything. Otherwise they'll have to transfer it from their own 3ds. I mean really, if someone is legitimately maining a Mii of all characters, it'll almost certainly be saved on their 3ds, height, weight, moves and all. Palutena should be no different from any other character, we can and probably should have 8 presets based on popularity. I don't think them being unlocked from the start should really change anything since there will still be a top 8 regardless. If there's time to be saved, we should take it.

 

[Deleted member 278362]

On the subject of custom moves being brung forth to the competitive scene, shouldn't we refer to them in an AAAA format as opposed to a 1111 format? I believe the set names become more memorable that way.

"b-b-BACA.."
"WE HAVE [X] WITH HIS BBCC META KNIGHT"
"..AND [X], PLAYING STANDARD SHEIK"

I'm sorry.




"ayyyyyyyyyy BAAB"

 

[Nintendrone]

On the subject of custom moves being brung forth to the competitive scene, shouldn't we refer to them in an AAAA format as opposed to a 1111 format? I believe the set names become more memorable that way.

"b-b-BACA.."
"WE HAVE [X] WITH HIS BBCC META KNIGHT"
"..AND [X], PLAYING STANDARD SHEIK"

I'm sorry.




"ayyyyyyyyyy BAAB"

They're coded with numbers because the game labels the moves that way. Each special has versions 1-3, which makes it simple to recognize even if there's localization differences.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Well, the Bowser Jr thread did pretty well I guess, here is a Bowser thread if you guys could help upvote it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2nup5m/official_standard_custom_moveset_project_bowser/

---

At this time, I really am at a loss with the Ganon thread. The conflict between thrust and sword rages on, now leaning to thrust.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

On the subject of custom moves being brung forth to the competitive scene, shouldn't we refer to them in an AAAA format as opposed to a 1111 format? I believe the set names become more memorable that way.

"b-b-BACA.."
"WE HAVE [X] WITH HIS BBCC META KNIGHT"
"..AND [X], PLAYING STANDARD SHEIK"

I'm sorry.




"ayyyyyyyyyy BAAB"

The game actually refers to the moves as versions 1, 2, and 3. If we were making up terminology from nowhere, I'd probably agree. However, since the game comes with in-built terminology, we should stick to it.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2nvzsz/official_standard_custom_moveset_project_game_and/

This is the game and watch thread. I don't care for spamming this, but I'd like people to upvote this. The Bowser thread has been pretty active with replies, so I felt it was a good time to upload this one.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I just went through all 51 threads today (took forever!), and here's about where they seem to stand:

Characters most of the way done, vibrant discussion:

Bowser, Ganondorf, Greninja, King Dedede, Kirby, Link, Lucario, Luigi, Ness, Robin, Rosalina, Shulk

Characters most of the way done, simple discussion (few posts but easy to draw results):

Charizard, Dark Pit, DK, Dr. Mario, Fox, Ike, Lucina, Marth, Mega Man, Pikachu, Pit, Villager, Yoshi, Toon Link, Zelda

Characters who have some progress (some posts of use but hard to draw a final result):

Captain Falcon, Duck Hunt, Mario, Mr. Game & Watch, Pac-Man, Palutena, Sheik, Samus

Characters who still need some more attention (low activity, would require me to make up a lot on my own):

Bowser Jr., Diddy Kong, Little Mac, Meta Knight, Mii Brawler, Mii Swordfighter, Mii Gunner, Olimar, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, Zero Suit Samus

Characters who have gotten zero attention, no posts:

Falco, Jigglypuff, Peach, Wario,

That one board (actually more than enough to use when it's said and done):

Sonic

 

[DunnoBro]

I'll try to make a google docs of the sets we have and contact prominent/vocal members within the boards to provide input on customs for the lesser discussed characters, and/or start polls if they are needed.

I'll also be trying to get with VGBC/Xanadu to let me have a powersave station to unlock all the customs on everyone's 3ds and upload our sets on the Wii Us people bring. (Probably not this week though)

As for duck hunt, I think we pretty much have the final result. He's like sonic, default set is best except for personal choices (and a lot of his customs are useless. 1-shot can, all side b customs. only the gunmen and recovery get switched around)

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I believe this represents a complete solution to the logistical problems both in terms of move unlocking and in terms of set-up and selection time,

None of this is really present outside of selection time for Miis.

So I wouldn't really worry about their threads.
Not that sets for anything but Gunner are really varied in truth.

 

[Raijinken]

I support this idea. Already ground out the moves on my 3DS, so if anyone in the Raleigh area needs slots to copy, let me know.

 

[DunnoBro]

Here's where I am on the google docs so far.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZWWmlFNtJmTLOuEEBeRDR0krH9uVxoi8qaVWWPTvvjQ/edit?usp=sharing

* = Lack of discussion, but seemed concise enough.
** = Severe lack of discussion, sets were either formed from other threads or after consulting single individuals.
*** = Poll likely needed.

Some characters like ganon and donkey kong may not have the luxury of using their 7/8 slots for 2222/3333 due to the wide variety of sets their players like to use with them.

Please reply here or pm me to get access to edit. Would really like some help on this with so many chars lol... Just someone to work backwards alphabetically while I go regular would be a huge help.

When the list is complete I was thinking we could throw it around to see how much people agree with it, then tweak it to fit their needs. I also think it'd be a huge help if people uploaded sets to the exact same slots as each other so competitive players could confidently pick their number and play. (Also, if a set needed to be deleted to add a non-standard set, the color should be the most awkward color of that character to make it more obvious something is up)

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I set up the best poll I could think of for the Ganondorf debate on the forum. Let me tell you; it's tough to take all this in. I can only hope it works in the end.

I also opened up the discussion on the sub reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2nyrhc/official_standard_custom_moveset_project/

 

[popsofctown]

I wouldn't stress out about Rob, I know I'm the only one that posted about him at length but I think that's a result of his custom specials being beyond boring. It's a mixture of garbage moves and strict upgrades. It seems like there is astoundingly little case to be made for the usefulness of n2, n3, u1, and d1. Permutations of what's left might leave some holes but should be decent.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So this may be partially off topic (or has been covered before) but I didn't see a thread for the Wii U version. Have we come up with an "optimal" way to unlock custom moves on the Wii U version yet? Classic mode was pretty clearly the best in 3DS, but on Wii U, I'm not having the same success with that method

In general, I'm seeing a lot more equipment and fewer custom moves through classic, and it doesn't seem biased for the character I am using any longer.
I've actually had some decent success in Master/Crazy orders, and even trophy rush... but I wondered if there was a "well duh" way to grind them out this time.

 

[DunnoBro]

IIRC smash tour can be semi-idled for customs. Do it while watching movies and stuff and just check back every 10 mins for home run contests and the like. I think a turbo controller may fully automate the process but no one's tested yet and I can't find mine lol

 

[popsofctown]

So this may be partially off topic (or has been covered before) but I didn't see a thread for the Wii U version. Have we come up with an "optimal" way to unlock custom moves on the Wii U version yet? Classic mode was pretty clearly the best in 3DS, but on Wii U, I'm not having the same success with that method

In general, I'm seeing a lot more equipment and fewer custom moves through classic, and it doesn't seem biased for the character I am using any longer.
I've actually had some decent success in Master/Crazy orders, and even trophy rush... but I wondered if there was a "well duh" way to grind them out this time.

Keep in mind the optimal tournament administration involves DS anyway so there is not a lot of desire to pressure people into fully unlocking their wii us

 

[Fenrir VII]

Keep in mind the optimal tournament administration involves DS anyway so there is not a lot of desire to pressure people into fully unlocking their wii us

It was mostly for my knowledge. If a Wii U is fully unlocked, those setups can be transferred to 3DS too, so it really works both ways.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

The Ganondorf forums are in a hell of a toss up about the neutral Bs. http://smashboards.com/threads/warlock-punch-vs-blade-vs-thrust.380780/#post-18105109

It really comes down to preference, and I think that as things are now, 3333 should be thrown out for the sake of fitting at least a copy of one of the priority movesets with a different NB.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The Ganondorf forums are in a hell of a toss up about the neutral Bs. http://smashboards.com/threads/warlock-punch-vs-blade-vs-thrust.380780/#post-18105109

It really comes down to preference, and I think that as things are now, 3333 should be thrown out for the sake of fitting at least a copy of one of the priority movesets with a different NB.

I'm not going to comment in the main thread since I'm nowhere near a Ganondorf main but I prefer Blade just so he can use the damn thing for once.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Oi, it's rough. I knew from the start there was no easy solution to this problem, but the poll said that Blade should take priority, and that's what it's doing. It's not even like the Crash Bomber, danger wrap scenario where they are both good moves. Ganon players just pick one move, and hate the other two. In the end, Blade seemed to have popularity for 1v1, and was generally agreed to be better than Punch and Thrust in 2v2 so it won out. Hopefully when Wii Us have all customs available, this problem can be a thing of the past.

2322
2122
2121
2332
2132
2321

is what came out of the situation. Ganondorf will benefit for when all Wii Us have customs unlocked because so much seems to work for him. AA you're free to change this if you want if you believe you can find a real middle ground here.

 

[Toxicroaker]

So, is Ganon the first one done? Cool. Are any of the other characters done? I want to add the custom movesets to my 3DS, because I have no idea what the standard for 90% of the characters will be.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

So, is Ganon the first one done? Cool. Are any of the other characters done? I want to add the custom movesets to my 3DS, because I have no idea what the standard for 90% of the characters will be.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZWWmlFNtJmTLOuEEBeRDR0krH9uVxoi8qaVWWPTvvjQ/edit#gid=0

This Doc is the closest thing to a compilation list thus far, but it hasn't been updated yet.

 

[Luco]

Ness boards are almost there. We have a complete list of 8 potential sets, we're now just in the stages of reviewing them and deciding whether we want to edit them or whether the list looks good. Expect ours to be done within a couple days.

 

[19_]

edit: this post was full of miss info sorry.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Rosalina's 3 core sets seem agreed on if raw numbers are any indication, so now we're (I'm) doing a poll to decide on 3 supplemental sets. Yay progress.

 

[Starbound]

I just want to get this off my chest.

Ever since the wii u release I have not seen a single wii u tounament running customs.
I remember look at the CT article saying xkatar not using customs don't panic. Oh I am panicking especially since I saw someone asking D1 on twitter about whether the smash community was not down with customs in which he replied "default all the way".
PLEASE don't bash D1 one on this. Doing this will make things worse.

I want customs to get off the ground and it seems as if the popular voices of the community seem as if they have already given up. I really hope this just because they don't see what we are doing here. But honestly, I think they just want to ignore the problem of working for customs and take the easy way out.

This sucks how incredibly short sited this decision is. Here you have a game that is constantly criticised as Brawl 2.0 which its's NOT, but I can't understand why you ignore an awesome addition to this game that that can change that opinion.

At this point I hope that rumor of Nintendo sponsoring apex is true. We could really use there help now.

In a later comment on that tweet, D1 said that the only reason they're off is because not ever setup has them yet.

Given that at the time of the tweet, the game was only 3 days old, it's totally understandable that customs were off.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

In a later comment on that tweet, D1 said that the only reason they're off is because not ever setup has them yet.

Given that at the time of the tweet, the game was only 3 days old, it's totally understandable that customs were off.

It will hopefully be moot in a few months anyway, but I do worry about the long term effects of this. Will TOs be resistant to allowing custom moves later simply due to inertia? I honestly don't know.

 

[19_]

In a later comment on that tweet, D1 said that the only reason they're off is because not ever setup has them yet.

Given that at the time of the tweet, the game was only 3 days old, it's totally understandable that customs were off.

Thanks for letting me know. I cant see that pic though.
edit: can now.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

It will hopefully be moot in a few months anyway, but I do worry about the long term effects of this. Will TOs be resistant to allowing custom moves later simply due to inertia? I honestly don't know.

The smash community can get cemented very quickly. It will be a bigger uphill battle if custom moves aren't allowed soon. As long as we are diligent with this project we can hopefully make it easier for TOs to move to full customization. A bitter pill to swallow for a better future for sure. However if this works, I do look forward to the future of customs. I am especially eager for Ganondorf who definitely has a fantastic number of options at his disposal.

 

[19_]

The smash community can get cemented very quickly. It will be a bigger uphill battle if custom moves aren't allowed soon. As long as we are diligent with this project we can hopefully make it easier for TOs to move to full customization. A bitter pill to swallow for a better future.

I'm really worried about fate of customs more than anything else if that hasty post I made says anything. I do want more stages but things that customs can do for the meta is too exiting to pass up.

As i said before (and this maybe a dumb statement) I really hope that the rumor of Nintendo sponsoring Apex is true. I hate to bring politics into this but is important for the point that I'm going to make. Apex has gotten a lot of flack for not hosting project M (I really hope this comes back next year) and due to the fact they are hosting "brawl 2.0" does not help matters. Thing is custom moves have the chance to change the way people think about Smash Wii U which would most likely benefit Apex. Problem is how to unlock them for a huge number of wiius; I mean Apex is huge. This is why I hope Nintendo sponsorship is a thing. Nintendo wants to show off as much of there game as possible so if they find out we need help showing off customs they may just lend a helping hand.

This is just me wishful thinking. I also don't want to start an argument about Apex drama, no thank you.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So, I agree with urgency. I'm beginning compilation work right now. I want to clarify what the immediate plans are; many of you have done a great deal of work helping with this project, and for that I'm very grateful and also a bit relieved to know that I'm not fighting the good fight alone.

I'm going to try to put together a preliminary list of results tonight. Some creativity will be implemented in filling out options for characters who have gotten a poor response which is thankfully fairly few of them (so many of you guys rock; honestly I underestimated the organizational challenges but also underestimated the community support I'd get). We're going to look over it internally to make sure there are no huge holes. I plan to make it public Thursday. This will NOT represent a final list; this will be the "get it out now" post so people who run tournaments and want to use customs have this system available in some form ASAP. It will receive substantial revision no doubt over the rest of the year (when I plan to finalize v1 and put it on a scheduled revision process, probably bi-annually). I'll also be producing some kind of an explanation as per how to set it up and generally administer a tournament with customs legal with them not unlocked on most or even all of the set-ups. Thanks for all th help so far, and things are progressing very smoothly.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Let me say this: If I never have to deal with those Reddit guys again with serious questions, it'll be too soon.

I hope things go well. It's been fun trying to help the smash scene in some small way.

 

[Luco]

Yeah i'm really happy we've been able to help you on this Ampharos, I think people knew the idea behind customs outweighed the logistical issues and although i'm normally scared to take the leap with these things and just put them out there, i'm really happy and satisfied we did and that it's been of at least some small use. Rest assured you have ours, and the vast majority of the wider community's backing. Here to help man, so let us know if there's anything more you need done (for instance, advertising the project to local TOs, that kind of thing) and we'll do our best! *thumbs up*

 

[Xinc]

Not gonna lie, having hard times getting custom moves. Just getting useless equipment. >.<

But I do support custom moves. IT adds more variety to the game and allows the game to not go stale (like Brawl kind of did).

 

[DunnoBro]

Personally I doubt sm4sh will go stale like brawl did even without customs. The balance and inherent fun is just plain superior, of course I believe customs will only add to that.

 

[Leonyx]

How can we help this effort if we're only tourney watchers? It's aggravating watching tournament streams not support custom moves, but I'm afraid I'd give poor advice to the Olimar boards, seeing as I don't have access to 1v1 players where I'm at. Even if I were to play with someone online, I wouldn't feel like a good authority figure to make moveset calls.