Project M - Yoshi matches

[OninO]

So, I've been thinking about run up down-tilt a la Marth as an approach option. When spaced right the range on his tail is very very good. I'm pretty sure you could d-tilt Marth's shield from outside his grab range when spacing correctly. The knock back is guaranteed if it connects and it's a lot quicker than dash attack (I was reminded of this line of thought after seeing Scatz dash attack Lucas in neutral and get punished for it). You guys should give it a try.

Also for Scatz:
You DJC fair is on point vs. Lucas
As is your spot dodging of PK Ice

Your DI during his combos is a bit off though. Try mixing up your DI from hit to hit.

Also you over use down-b in neutral. It's punishable on reaction.

Edit: Also, your uair chains are so crisp, it's really nice to watch. Makes fantastic data on the Lucas match up, In the last couple of mins you get a uair chain on him that goes to about 50% the hit from 50 to ~60 leaves him too high and he acts out. I don't think that's possible to continue with uairs, so best bet is an egg for continuation. Great example of uair chain.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Recent videos of my Yoshi in making. Despite having a few terrible missed L-cancels and screwed up DJC Nairs, I kept things well composed. Still a lot of parts I need to fix though. Video got sped up due to recorder issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npe7lZASRGc&list=PLmOE4XgHqBjp-aOUyUo7N6lVGwGgST-62&index=1 (vs Lucas)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX7SMKIHa1A&list=PLmOE4XgHqBjp-aOUyUo7N6lVGwGgST-62&index=2 (vs Kirby)

Btw, **** Kirby and his short *** ;-;

Your movement is super on point. If I may say 2 things though:
You should work Eggroll into your game a bit more, I saw it only a few times. It's a great option for movement and approaches and mindgames in general. It's very useful for tech chases as well.

Your game seems to be somewhat the opposite of mine, you play very defensive and I play Hyper-Aggression. I do think you need to punish harder and learn more hit confirming. You play Hit-and-Run (Which works, obviously) which that and the defensive game I assume comes from playing brawl, but try to be a bit more aggressive and ballsy with extending your punish game.

Everything else I see is very very solid. Just work on more aggression, that would be my only advice, whatever it's worth.

 

[Scatz]

So, I've been thinking about run up down-tilt a la Marth as an approach option. When spaced right the range on his tail is very very good. I'm pretty sure you could d-tilt Marth's shield from outside his grab range when spacing correctly. The knock back is guaranteed if it connects and it's a lot quicker than dash attack (I was reminded of this line of thought after seeing Scatz dash attack Lucas in neutral and get punished for it). You guys should give it a try.

Also for Scatz:
You DJC fair is on point vs. Lucas
As is your spot dodging of PK Ice

Your DI during his combos is a bit off though. Try mixing up your DI from hit to hit.

Also you over use down-b in neutral. It's punishable on reaction.

Edit: Also, your uair chains are so crisp, it's really nice to watch. Makes fantastic data on the Lucas match up, In the last couple of mins you get a uair chain on him that goes to about 50% the hit from 50 to ~60 leaves him too high and he acts out. I don't think that's possible to continue with uairs, so best bet is an egg for continuation. Great example of uair chain.

Thanks. That's actually my first time playing Yoshi against a competent Lucas, so there was a ton of stuff I was learning while playing. I'll probably have much better DI when I get more practice in that MU.

All the tech-flubs I was making made me resort to using Down-B to compensate since he would never SDI the Jab or the first hit of Down-B going into it. I have more issues with Yoshi in neutral than I do anywhere else, and I've been trying to figure out why exactly. That's still a on-going process that I have to fix.

I don't remember many spots that I got punished for using Dash Attack. The times I tried to intentionally throw it out were when I was tech chasing. x-x

As for your run up D-tilt idea, I think it's situational depending on the character Yoshi is playing against, but it would be very effective since it's tough to truly punish a correctly spaced one.

Your movement is super on point. If I may say 2 things though:
You should work Eggroll into your game a bit more, I saw it only a few times. It's a great option for movement and approaches and mindgames in general. It's very useful for tech chases as well.

Your game seems to be somewhat the opposite of mine, you play very defensive and I play Hyper-Aggression. I do think you need to punish harder and learn more hit confirming. You play Hit-and-Run (Which works, obviously) which that and the defensive game I assume comes from playing brawl, but try to be a bit more aggressive and ballsy with extending your punish game.

Everything else I see is very very solid. Just work on more aggression, that would be my only advice, whatever it's worth.

Eggroll has been the last thing on my mind mainly cause the applications I see from it aren't as complex as DJC & Eggs are right now. I've been working on tackling the harder parts before doing it. Plus, I also think it could be punished upon poor use if people paid more attention to how it's being used, but that's a theory right now lol.

Somwhat. Brawl made me learn to not commit until I know I have accurate punishes, and my Yoshi is still fairly weak, so most times I try to make sure I'm not forcing approaches (was notorious for doing it back then) so that I don't blow myself up running into attacks / traps. Even then, my lack of aggression comes from the degree of punishment I'm able to dish out. I'm somewhat familiar with DJC combos, but not enough to extend to a point I don't have confidence in. I just naturally had a more counter-based style than anything when I started playing smash competitively.

Thanks for the advice though. It gives me some ideas that I can test out in training mode the next time I get to play.

Also, does anyone have advice vs Kirby? His squat interferes with my jab game, and since he's so small, it's tough for me to use aerials effectively (add to his priority)...

 

[OninO]

I haven't played against any really proficient Kirbies, the one I did play against, I found it sufficient to bait dash attacks, shield and punish with grab or upsmash out of shield depending on where he ended up. Combine this with bair walling (a fast falled bair has a great, low-to-the-ground hitbox) in the early neutral until he can't cc the jab anymore.

Also fast-falled fair, either DJC or just SHFFL'd will connect no matter how small he crouches and is actually almost neutral on shield (I think -1 on shield). Space it at the tip and he definitely can't grab you out of it. If he shields it just dash away on land (I think that's faster than wavedashing back).

 

[OninO]

Also, experiment with down throw to down air. This works on floaties at early percents and if you nail it will take them almost past cc range in one move.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Yeah yoshis wooooo..so much passion

 

[Devinchi]

Also, does anyone have advice vs Kirby? His squat interferes with my jab game, and since he's so small, it's tough for me to use aerials effectively (add to his priority)...

Oddly enough, I have a friend who mains both Kirby and Lucas, so I have picked up a few tricks. The Kirby matchup is one you gotta take kinda slow because he's slow floaty. It's really difficult to get combos bigger that a couple of hits because he can usually throw out a nair to break combos. I try to start out racking up some percent with egg toss and dtilt, mainly to avoid getting grabbed. (Kirby's dthrow tech chases are crazy!). Once you got some damage on, more follow up options open up, but make sure to back off when you can't follow up. I usually end up finishing him with either dthrow>uair, grounded downB, and the occasional f/dsmash at around 80-90%

One thing to note is that a DJC nair will beat Kirby's dash attack every time, as will a properly spaced or crouch cancelled grounded downB. Also, when Kirby tries to approach with a side cutter, more often than not he'll follow it with an aerial. Make sure to wait til that aerial is out and you can get a good punish. I find it best to use grabs sparingly in this matchup because they're hard to get for not much reward. Yoshi can't grab or egg lay Kirbs if he's crouching, landing after most aerials, or even using his dash attack (thats right, the fireball is too low to swallow), and a whiffed grab by Yoshi is easy to punish. And even if you do, you can't get much going off of it. Only throw one out if you got him scared in his shield.

 

[WINK ;)]

I am contemplating picking up Yoshi.... but I do not understand what a parry is or how to do it? Is it similar to the buffering roll mechanic at all? Also, what is the best way you all have found to DJC?

I know zero Yoshi tech really, he is just fun to play.

 

[OninO]

Hi Wink,

Parry doesn't work the same in this game as it does in Melee, so don't worry so much about it.

For DJC, if I'm DJC'ing a nair out of shield then I press Y followed very quickly by up on the control stick (tap jump on). If I'm DJC'ing a turn around nair or fair in neutral I just double tap Y.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I don't use tap jump, but as starting out, learn to incorporate eggroll into your game early, it's a good crutch for a new Yoshi player. Grabs are godlike, so use those when you can. Figure out your tricks and learn what strings well for you. DJC is something to learn too, but focus on usage in movement and to follow combos and such. DJC shorthop Aerials are great and all, but they won't do you any good to know them until you can get something out of them.

and Parrys are only for grabs in PM right now, so if you read that you're vulnerable to a grab, Shield. If you catch the active frames of the grab with the 6 beginning frames of Shield, Yoshi will ignore the grab.

 

[Deviljho]

So many Yoshi's in this forum... I'm growing excited alot... You guys should see some footage I've got...

But, I'll wait just a bit longer.. I'd give some critique, but it appears you all have it handled...

Glad to see the rising Yoshi's Keep it up everyone <3

Dude, I placed 3rd a while back in a small tourney in OceanSide a week ago! Could you CNC my earlier matches? :3 I'll record more play of me soon. My skills have improved since then as well.

 

[WINK ;)]

Hi Wink,

Parry doesn't work the same in this game as it does in Melee, so don't worry so much about it.

For DJC, if I'm DJC'ing a nair out of shield then I press Y followed very quickly by up on the control stick (tap jump on). If I'm DJC'ing a turn around nair or fair in neutral I just double tap Y.

Is parry not viable in Project M?

 

[TomBoComBo]

Is parry not viable in Project M?

If you use the Grab ignoring part, yes, it's very viable. The move-eating parry from Melee has yet to be finished, so it's not reliable

 

[V3ctorMan]

Dude, I placed 3rd a while back in a small tourney in OceanSide a week ago! Could you CNC my earlier matches? :3 I'll record more play of me soon. My skills have improved since then as well.

which ones am I looking at, I actually (FOR ONCE) have some time to look at some matches, so if you (or anyone) would like me to CnC lemme know now please.. thanks guys

 

[Deviljho]

which ones am I looking at, I actually (FOR ONCE) have some time to look at some matches, so if you (or anyone) would like me to CnC lemme know now please.. thanks guys

Yo VMan, here ya go:

Whattup Yoshi's? It's been a while since you've seen my Yoshi! Well, thanks to my new capture card, I've got vids!
All are against Angel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmnbNVdTug (Yoshi Vs Zelda)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZiRZONCPU (Yoshi Vs Pit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORA2F0J4ymw (Yoshi Vs Zelda)

Feel Free to CnC me!

Thanks for doin this for me bro!

 

[V3ctorMan]

Allirght, sorry DJO, on the late response.. I wanted to respond while I was at my cpu, rather than while on a phone.. ^^

Ok, so Im going to try and remember everything that I saw off of memory here, and i'll refer back to the matches for specific things too.. Ok let's get started..

Allright, so for "in general" things that I'm not a "HUGE" fan of that I noticed, is that when you're high in the air without a jump or unsure of your options... you tend to "Yoshi" Bomb back to the stage.. Though, in "most" cases this worked out for you, there is in general no real purpose of this, besides "hoping" your opponent hits it. It's not the best option, and it's not exactly safe either.. You'd be surprised, how simply coming down, towards the edge, or even just maneuvering away from your opponent will work out for you.. Promise (I'm not saying it's flawless, but it's safer, with the right concept of it. Maybe even a properly timed aerial of your own... (Even coming down with a Dair, you'd be shocked at the moves priority.. <--- this is in comparison to melee dair..

When you're in shield you tend to bair OoS quite often, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but at times, there were better options that covers this.. TRUST YOUR DJC out of shield.. <--- this is RIDICULOUSLY good with this character, and way too underused (from what i've seen) I do see you Nair OoS, which is solid, to increase your hitbox range, but at lower % try implementing the DJC's to maybe start some combos..

This next thing is something I believe I'm just "indifferent" on with the other Yoshi's but i'm NOT a fan of eggroll airborne.. I understand why it's used, and even the hitboxes, but with Yoshi's egg now exploding upon impact, I'd rather throw an egg or two slightly to force a position, rather than the eggroll, "I understand the movement, the egg can do airborne, but just at high levels of play, I haven't warrant any "major success" with it. I'd almost rather, anticipate a move, I do admit, sometimes it can be used as mindgame, but at top level play, I don't believe it's going to warrant any kind of success, to be overused as such... then again my only practice are high level players who have "seen" it often... perhaps to someone who doesn't see it, may work?

Not many DJC's Seriously use these/learn these... these are sooo good, I promise <3

Don't end your combos so early at low %.. Dthrow<DJCUair<Utiltx1(2)<DJCUair... or Dthrow<DJCNair<Ftiltx1(2) often leads to jab resets... Be creative with Ftilt, Utilt, DJCUair, DJCNair, <---- all of these are amazing combo moves. :

I will agree that Eggroll, on the ground, is useful/effective, but I do use it alot less than most of you that I've watched.. I'll usually only use it for techchases... be careful when using it to just blindly approach an opponent, again it worked for you during these matches... but at higher levels most cases it will get punished... Eggroll is improved, it's surprisingly good, however you don't want to show it off enough to where your opponent figures it out.. It's improved.. it's not OP (despite popular belief) any character with a projectile you'll learn to lessen it's use) Since you do like to use it though, something you may want to "experiment" with is Eggroll OoS. Seriously.. reverse your momentum upon which direction you started your eggroll, once you hit the stage. It isn't foolproof, but will surprise an unsuspecting opponent.

When your opponent is at high% Don't Nair OoS <--- it's not that it's not good but remember you can USmash OoS now) and with the buff it got, it kills early in both of these matchups.

DJCNair<Fsmash shield pressure is safe in both of these matchups on shieldgrabs, and in general, try using this rather than your late Fair approach all the time, Remember in these matchups if you're uncertain about pressure and how safe it is, do try and attack behind the characters shield.. Yoshi is quick enough to get behind shields on shield pressure even when starting from the front of the shield... Crossups

Not many ECE's.. Eggs are very good use these <3

What's with the Dair(s) OoS? I think I understand in terms of trying to build %, but you were getting punished for using these, and not gettng too many positives from it.. (I won't say it's a "bad" option" but there are indeed better choices" I do understand trying to build percentage..

Interesting to see you throw an Egg to recover, then use your Eggroll to get back on the stage, using the egg to cover your eggroll... I don't fully agree with this choice because, if you get hit, during that you don't have a jump. MOST cases you're going to get hit anyway, but that's what you have to use your DJarmor for, it's much better to DJcounter, and receive damage rather than do nothing in return.. I agree there are certain situations this worked out for you, but again, it's safer to just get back on the stage without a risk of your jump.

Woot Dthrow to Yoshi Bomb combo on no DI, glad to see you've noticed it works ^^

Glad to see you and the Yoshi's know how GOOD Yoshi's pivot grab is.. <3

That's all I can remember for now, I'll likely watch one more time before I go again, I love watching Yoshi's play and see how everyone develops! I want to help as many of you as I can.. ^^ I've watched most of the matches here, if anyone wants any feedback, i'll do my best to get to you promise... ^^. So glad to see so many Yoshi players in P.M. if only there were this many of you for melee.. ^^

Random notes: Remember Yoshi can do ANYTHING OoS guys... (It's tough to mentally remember this) But shield<DJ<release shieldduring DJ)<(neutral position) Of course you'll need to be quick, and very precise.. But Dsmashing or Fsmashing oos, is a nice way to throw off some DI.. (Practice with this, before trying to add it to your game) It took me nearly a full day to get it subconsciously and I'll still be too slow at times, but it's a new area to explore in terms of OoS options.

I'm nearly certain i'm missing more, and I'll watch again.. Hope this helps for now man! <3 Keep it up everyone, I can't wait to see everyone develop! ^^

 

[King of Hoboz]

Random notes: Remember Yoshi can do ANYTHING OoS guys... (It's tough to mentally remember this) But shield<DJ<release shieldduring DJ)<(neutral position) Of course you'll need to be quick, and very precise.. But Dsmashing or Fsmashing oos, is a nice way to throw off some DI.. (Practice with this, before trying to add it to your game) It took me nearly a full day to get it subconsciously and I'll still be too slow at times, but it's a new area to explore in terms of OoS options.

Its a shame I can't show you any footage from our Yoshi main, Airborne. Kentucky has no streaming at all, its really tragic. Anyway, he found a trick for that very thing ^ and I figured there's no point in keeping it a secret for so long.

In P:M, if you have tap jump on, you can hit up on your analog stick and down on your C-Stick at the same time and it'll perform an instant Double Jump so low to the ground it'll ground you. We think the reason this happens is the C-Stick tries to copy the analog's motion and performs 2 jumps at once.

You're welcome Yoshi Mains, have fun with everything OoS.

 

[Deviljho]

Allirght, sorry DJO, on the late response.. I wanted to respond while I was at my cpu, rather than while on a phone.. ^^

Ok, so Im going to try and remember everything that I saw off of memory here, and i'll refer back to the matches for specific things too.. Ok let's get started..

Allright, so for "in general" things that I'm not a "HUGE" fan of that I noticed, is that when you're high in the air without a jump or unsure of your options... you tend to "Yoshi" Bomb back to the stage.. Though, in "most" cases this worked out for you, there is in general no real purpose of this, besides "hoping" your opponent hits it. It's not the best option, and it's not exactly safe either.. You'd be surprised, how simply coming down, towards the edge, or even just maneuvering away from your opponent will work out for you.. Promise (I'm not saying it's flawless, but it's safer, with the right concept of it. Maybe even a properly timed aerial of your own... (Even coming down with a Dair, you'd be shocked at the moves priority.. <--- this is in comparison to melee dair..

When you're in shield you tend to bair OoS quite often, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but at times, there were better options that covers this.. TRUST YOUR DJC out of shield.. <--- this is RIDICULOUSLY good with this character, and way too underused (from what i've seen) I do see you Nair OoS, which is solid, to increase your hitbox range, but at lower % try implementing the DJC's to maybe start some combos..

This next thing is something I believe I'm just "indifferent" on with the other Yoshi's but i'm NOT a fan of eggroll airborne.. I understand why it's used, and even the hitboxes, but with Yoshi's egg now exploding upon impact, I'd rather throw an egg or two slightly to force a position, rather than the eggroll, "I understand the movement, the egg can do airborne, but just at high levels of play, I haven't warrant any "major success" with it. I'd almost rather, anticipate a move, I do admit, sometimes it can be used as mindgame, but at top level play, I don't believe it's going to warrant any kind of success, to be overused as such... then again my only practice are high level players who have "seen" it often... perhaps to someone who doesn't see it, may work?

Not many DJC's Seriously use these/learn these... these are sooo good, I promise <3

Don't end your combos so early at low %.. Dthrow<DJCUair<Utiltx1(2)<DJCUair... or Dthrow<DJCNair<Ftiltx1(2) often leads to jab resets... Be creative with Ftilt, Utilt, DJCUair, DJCNair, <---- all of these are amazing combo moves. :

I will agree that Eggroll, on the ground, is useful/effective, but I do use it alot less than most of you that I've watched.. I'll usually only use it for techchases... be careful when using it to just blindly approach an opponent, again it worked for you during these matches... but at higher levels most cases it will get punished... Eggroll is improved, it's surprisingly good, however you don't want to show it off enough to where your opponent figures it out.. It's improved.. it's not OP (despite popular belief) any character with a projectile you'll learn to lessen it's use) Since you do like to use it though, something you may want to "experiment" with is Eggroll OoS. Seriously.. reverse your momentum upon which direction you started your eggroll, once you hit the stage. It isn't foolproof, but will surprise an unsuspecting opponent.

When your opponent is at high% Don't Nair OoS <--- it's not that it's not good but remember you can USmash OoS now) and with the buff it got, it kills early in both of these matchups.

DJCNair<Fsmash shield pressure is safe in both of these matchups on shieldgrabs, and in general, try using this rather than your late Fair approach all the time, Remember in these matchups if you're uncertain about pressure and how safe it is, do try and attack behind the characters shield.. Yoshi is quick enough to get behind shields on shield pressure even when starting from the front of the shield... Crossups

Not many ECE's.. Eggs are very good use these <3

What's with the Dair(s) OoS? I think I understand in terms of trying to build %, but you were getting punished for using these, and not gettng too many positives from it.. (I won't say it's a "bad" option" but there are indeed better choices" I do understand trying to build percentage..

Interesting to see you throw an Egg to recover, then use your Eggroll to get back on the stage, using the egg to cover your eggroll... I don't fully agree with this choice because, if you get hit, during that you don't have a jump. MOST cases you're going to get hit anyway, but that's what you have to use your DJarmor for, it's much better to DJcounter, and receive damage rather than do nothing in return.. I agree there are certain situations this worked out for you, but again, it's safer to just get back on the stage without a risk of your jump.

Woot Dthrow to Yoshi Bomb combo on no DI, glad to see you've noticed it works ^^

Glad to see you and the Yoshi's know how GOOD Yoshi's pivot grab is.. <3

That's all I can remember for now, I'll likely watch one more time before I go again, I love watching Yoshi's play and see how everyone develops! I want to help as many of you as I can.. ^^ I've watched most of the matches here, if anyone wants any feedback, i'll do my best to get to you promise... ^^. So glad to see so many Yoshi players in P.M. if only there were this many of you for melee.. ^^

Random notes: Remember Yoshi can do ANYTHING OoS guys... (It's tough to mentally remember this) But shield<DJ<release shieldduring DJ)<(neutral position) Of course you'll need to be quick, and very precise.. But Dsmashing or Fsmashing oos, is a nice way to throw off some DI.. (Practice with this, before trying to add it to your game) It took me nearly a full day to get it subconsciously and I'll still be too slow at times, but it's a new area to explore in terms of OoS options.

I'm nearly certain i'm missing more, and I'll watch again.. Hope this helps for now man! <3 Keep it up everyone, I can't wait to see everyone develop! ^^

Wow, thanks so much V3ctorman! I'll be sure to use these notes! :D

1) Yeah, I do bomb to the stage. I'll definitely work on that.

2) I have DJC's down, but You're right. I use them too little. I'm starting to use them more, and I'll work on putting it in even more.

3) I actually like a combo of the two. Egg toss to give you good positioning, and egg roll to give mobility.

4) Again, I don't use em enough. I'm working on improving that, and getting DJC Uair (Lcancelled) down.

5) I'm starting to use that less, and starting to use it more like what you stated. Tech Chases.

6) Note taken, I'll work on those OOS Smashes. Any tips? Like jump-> cStick?

7) mmmm.... That sounds tastey. Ima gonna learn them combos!

8) Again, note taken. I'll look into it, but I've had great results with it, and some punishes... Lol

9) Need to learn them combos.

I took some of that out of order. xD and didn't address some of it, but I really appreciate all that help! I'll work on everything you said and become a top playah like you! Thanks again man! :D

 

[Alphicans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJTXRat7jW0

I tired my best guys

 

[V3ctorMan]

That's a tough MU my good man, I have some advice I can give you, next time I'm free.. I only watched the FD game, but I saw many opportunities you had... but I wanna give in depth help, rather than text by my phone..

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah it's just scary playing m2k lol. Like when I played the other fox in my bracket it was easy, getting all of my punishes but m2k has subtle DI that really makes it ambiguous as to what to do + I was barely missing things and getting firefoxd for it >_>. Overall I was scared vsing m2k so my game suffered, but I think I did respectably considering it's m2k.

 

[OninO]

Alphicans, you don't seem to use many thrown eggs, how come?

 

[Alphicans]

I only use them to take up space when an opponent is above me, but since fox is such a fast faller I don't see much benefit to using them. I think they take up valuable frames where fox can think and come up with setups to mess up my day. I'd rather use movement options to create pressure than throw a telegraphed egg.

As a fox main myself, I know I'd relish in the moment of every egg toss if I were vsing a yoshi

 

[V3ctorMan]

I was "assuming" he was talking about from the edge. I'd have to rewatch, but I don remember seeing any.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Fox vs Yoshi is an easy matchup. Just rising N-air when you get him off the stage and you win

EDIT: And grab. Grab all the time

 

[Alphicans]

Lmao no dude it's not easy, not if the fox is good... Rising nair is great but it can sometimes really **** you over if firefox connects with you cause then your jump is gone (your SA won't cover your ass)

 

[V3ctorMan]

Yeah Yoshi v Fox is in no terms "easy" not at all... ESPECIALLY at top level..

 

[TomBoComBo]

I personally don't have trouble with spacies at all. But it may just be my playstyle.

 

[V3ctorMan]

you haven't played any really high level spacies then... that MU is not fun at all

 

[TomBoComBo]

We shall see

 

[Alphicans]

I know you said spacies/fox in general but do you know who m2k is? Like you can't just suggest to me to grab all the time vs the best PM fox in the world...

 

[TomBoComBo]

I know who he is, I know what he's capable of, and I know he's the best. I feel that when you get a grab or are able to knock an opponent down, it becomes Rock-Paper-Scissors as far as DI and tech options. Be it M2K or anyone else, they have the same number of options, all you have to do is read and cover the majority of them. Then all you have to do is convert the hits.
Am I saying I can beat M2k's Fox? Hell no. I'm saying that no matter who the player is, if you can out-mindgame them and not mess up in following up, the odds tip in your favor more and more.
I fought Wizzrobe about a month ago, He's solid as hell. I lost because of nerves, stupid mistakes, and MU inexperience. Making mistakes against top players is where they will destroy you. But when I got Wizzy on the ground, or took away his options, he became just like every other player. All I had to do was read and convert.
Personally, I know the spacies MU very well. Grab-Upthrow and later Downthrow will always give ways to follow up. On top of that, they force the opponent to take 1 of 4 options: tech left, tech right, tech neutral, or no tech at all. If they don't tech, then they have a new set of 4 options: roll left, roll right, get up, or get up attack. My Yoshi can cover 3/4 of those options in both cases. I play a very read/punish oriented game. As far as Fox recovering goes, Yes as I said before, Rising N-air takes all options away from spacies. If you can hit them with the disjointed hitbox of the N-air, it's an easy ledge-hog or it's simply death. Yes, Alphicans, if you get hit with the starting frames of the fire fox, you'll end up dying, but that's only if you rising N-air from underneath Fox. I Jump down when he's halfway through charging firefox and intercept his trajectory. If you get hit by that, it means you traded and you'll be knocked back on stage. Wolf has it the worst of the 3, neither of his recoveries will even trade with N-air, N-air will just eat them.

All in all, I personally am not scared of spacies no matter who plays them. M2K is amazing, at my level, there isn't much hope in beating him. But if he goes Fox, I can at least not be afraid of him. That's my thought process in all of this.

 

[Deviljho]

Fox vs Yoshi is an easy matchup. Just rising N-air when you get him off the stage and you win

EDIT: And grab. Grab all the time

You haven't played against a good Fox then. IMO the mu is slightly in fox's favor.

If you doubt me, I've played westballz in pm. I got massacred. Vectorman also knows what's up.

Spacies are fickle little things... I have a leg up on spacies around my level, but higher and it's slaughter. Again, slightly in fox's favor.

Yeah it's just scary playing m2k lol. Like when I played the other fox in my bracket it was easy, getting all of my punishes but m2k has subtle DI that really makes it ambiguous as to what to do + I was barely missing things and getting firefoxd for it >_>. Overall I was scared vsing m2k so my game suffered, but I think I did respectably considering it's m2k.

And you did well! Awesome job! I heard m2k moved here to SoCal so I wanna play him sometime just for the experience. My only tip is play every game the same. Sure you're playing m2k, but why be nervous? It's a great opportunity! You're going to be inherently nervous (I was facing HugS, I can only imagine your terror against m2k) but try to enjoy it, and destress. Again, awesome job!

 

[deeseejay]

Yeah I would agree, in my limited experience the Fox match up isn't as cut and dry in Yoshi's favour.

How do you guys deal with insane shield pressure? Especially from above?

 

[Airrogance]

Yeah once again, tombo you're saying grab all the time for another match-up as if it somehow makes it easy. What if fox plays campy? How are you gona' get a grab then? The match-up is in no way easy for yoshi and i definitely think it's in fox's favor.

Fox is still a monster

 

[waifumagnet]

Yeah, Tom. I think you need to play actual good spacies because let's face it: We don't have any good spacies in Tampa sans Lade and Noel. xD

 

[TomBoComBo]

What? I'm not allowed to have confidence in my play style? It's my Opinion guys. I explained why I feel the way I did, no reason to bash me over it. Yoshi is a very very versatile character, we all have our own ways to play him.

 

[waifumagnet]

True, true. Idk we'll see. :U

 

[Scatz]

Just to throw this out there, but I tend to feel like Yoshi has a few issues in his neutral game. Is this just me, or anyone else felt a similar issue?

 

[TomBoComBo]

Just to throw this out there, but I tend to feel like Yoshi has a few issues in his neutral game. Is this just me, or anyone else felt a similar issue?

What do you mean? I feel that the combined use of eggroll, wavelanding, grabs and quick aerials, he's got a damn solid neutral game. Where do you see the hiccups?