Project M Social Thread

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

The essence of Melee is in its high speed and fluidity yet tight control, technical precision, free-form combo game, and mediocre recoveries leading to exciting edge-guarding.

It is this overall feeling that we want to create first and foremost.

This

also, I sent ya a pm Shell, did you get it or was it full?

 

[Shadic]

bowser will not be low tier... I can say this with ease... why doubt he will not be good if it's not even been tested...

You didn't pay attention to what he was saying. He said an exact Bowser from Melee would be low tier. You know why? Bowser is low tier in Melee.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

You didn't pay attention to what he was saying. He said an exact Bowser from Melee would be low tier. You know why? Bowser is low tier in Melee.

I know he's low tier in melee

doesn't mean that with he's new model, big arms and shell (for Bair and stuff) also Fair has he's arms stretched better, Ftilts stretches he's arm better

just don't change he's animations, let them be, but copy all hitbox data from melee to brawl, since he's body is quite more flexible in brawl he's melee self as for dash speed, weight, SH start up, landing lag, etc, and damage, KB and all he will be better

make that be he's buff, ganon is being animation tweaked and all like in melee, but let bowser be flexible but with he's melee power, KB, damage etc

you know what I mean, you know I got a certain point, if he's hitboxes were conected to the same bones as melee and same hitbox size and all, he would still have better range cause he's more "flexible and big"

let that be as for now... if this doesn't turn out to be... i'll be dessapointed, and use jigglypuff intead since I'm a jigglypuff player (but a bowser fan)

I love bowser... since I was... 6 years? and that doesn't mean I want him to be top tier or not, but I want to prove that he's melee self with brawls model will not be bad

Edit:

** a difference I saw while using debbug menu in melee*

I saw that bowser's Ftilt had bad range, but the hitbox itself stayed more time, unlike brawl the hitbox terminates earlier but the result in brawl is that it has better range

so, if you see what I'm seeing, he will not be as bad as you guys point it, just keep this in mind plz... balance will occour after the beta, and I will test the bowser you call yourselfs low tier vs top tiers and post alot of videos so you can see he's not bad

 

[Rikana]

Namq, sorry but I'm quite confused what you're trying to get across. You agreed to Shell's definition of Melee:

The essence of Melee is in its high speed and fluidity yet tight control, technical precision, free-form combo game, and mediocre recoveries leading to exciting edge-guarding.

It is this overall feeling that we want to create first and foremost.

Yet, you want Bowser to be his Melee form (at least 75% of what he is in Melee from what you said). But, even if Bowser was Brawl+'ified, he'll be suitable for Melee's mechanics since that's what the team's been trying to do.

Whether or not he's going to be low tier, that will be decided when balance comes into hand. Right now, they're just trying to Melee'ify them. By that I mean they're going to give him movesets which does have similarity to Melee but at the same time, they're gonna have Brawl+. It may not even be 75% in the end but if it makes him better than his original Melee version, why not leave it as that? It won't put him as low tier. Also, its Melee 2.0 which means its an altered version of the original; they don't need to have an exact copy of Melee.

I hope that made sense.

Edit: Offtopic. I found my old SWF account.. its dated back in January 2002. LOL.

 

[humble]

Is it more important to the developers to make the game as good as possible, or as close to melee as possible?

 

[Wind Owl]

Physics are definitely going to be as close to Melee as possible.

Characters themselves lean towards Melee but will take on the "as good as possible" schema if it doesn't deviate too far.

 

[Shell]

I don't think those two are mutually exclusive.

The goal is to get the physics/movement/feel (simply put, the 'engine') to be as close to Melee as possible, but to get each character's move set/available strategies to be as deep/powerful or 'good as possible.' The top tiers are already good, so they will simply be as close to Melee as possible.

edit: Ninja'd by Wind Owl in fewer words.

 

[GPDP]

I don't think those two are mutually exclusive.

The goal is to get the physics/movement/feel (simply put, the 'engine') to be as close to Melee as possible, but to get each character's move set/available strategies to be as deep/powerful or 'good as possible.' The top tiers are already good, so they will simply be as close to Melee as possible.

I agree with this. Problem is, some people seem to adopt the mentality that if something was a certain way in Melee, it's automatically good and should be replicated.

IMO, I don't want an exact Melee replica. I want a game that feels and plays like Melee, yes, but Melee itself was not a perfect game. Some of its flaws should be improved. Powershielding is one of those areas. I think it should be looked at and made better, yet some people are content with replicating it to the tiniest detail, just because "that's how it was in Melee."

In other words, I don't want Melee. I want Melee 2, i.e. an improved Melee. Obviously it will be improved in terms of character balance and the greater amount of characters, but I think even some of the mechanics themselves can be made deeper or more responsive, while still keeping the Melee "feel."

 

[shanus]

Things arent going to simply be exactly melee, since thats pretty much impossible. We really are trying to hit the melee feel though, since its critical.

We have taken a bit of creative freedom, and it so far is a ton of fun. It still needs work though,

 

[Archangel]

@GPDP It's a bold statement and almost taboo to some but I have to say I agree. However before we can improve melee it's important that we replicate it first.

 

[GPDP]

@GPDP It's a bold statement and almost taboo to some but I have to say I agree. However before we can improve melee it's important that we replicate it first.

Some things need not be replicated, however. For instance, who honestly wants the developers of P:M to take precious time and hard work to add in the stupid powershield slide from Melee just for replication's sake? I mean, ok, I'll admit I'm not exactly a Melee expert, and there MAY be a reason why having the slide makes for a deeper shielding game than not having it, but I've yet to see a compelling argument.

I guess all I'm trying to say is, some people are too afraid of turning off the Melee crowd, as if having a few aspects of the game not be exactly like in Melee would turn them off forever, and I'm afraid such attitudes may hold the game back. I've even heard people say Melee players won't play this without importing all of the old sound effects or even model sizes! Do we honestly buy that? I refuse to believe Melee players are so shallow and worshipful of a game so as to denounce a more than worthy sequel on such vapid grounds.

I think if they reject this game (and so far, I've only seen a tiny minority of Melee fans who really do reject it on grounds that "it won't be exactly like Melee"), it will be because it's not faithful at the more general level. I think most realize it obviously will differ in various details, but as long as they can, for the most part, play this game like they play Melee, they will be satisfied. And I have full confidence that the team will achieve this.

 

[Deleted member]

As for the elbow.. let's just say that Ganon and Falcon already have different animations for P:M, but it's not what you think....

Spoiler

hype!

I can look into N64 Falcon U-smash, though, since that seems to be pretty popular. In defense of the Melee U-smash, it was pretty **** against fast-fallers, setting up for a knee against most DI's at a surprising range of percents... and then killing after that stops working. It's also one of his few mult-hit moves.

Shell... you're too cool. lol.

Ganon's Usmash and Dsmash fit his character's archetype well. So do Falcon's 64 Usmash and Fsmash, but I'd think flak would come from Melee players. Differences between the character's move animations would be pretty sweet though...
Idk what you guys are up to, but I'm sure I can expect something great.

Hype.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So did you guys decide to give ganon his brawl side b or his melee side b, sorry if this has already been asked?

 

[GP&B]

Brawl+ easily. Flame Choke adds so much to tech chasing with Ganondorf.

 

[Wind Owl]

We haven't decided. Magus gave a comparison of the two and they each have strengths and weaknesses. We might implement both, or just one. We don't know yet.

 

[GP&B]

I see, but how would you do both?

 

[superyoshi888]

I'd rather have the Flame Choke, personally. It's the one good thing about Barlw Ganon and it is a lot of fun as well.

His Melee Side Special just doesn't feel like it is worth reviving.

 

[FrozenHobo]

its not. flame choke >infinitely> gerudo dragon

 

[shanus]

I dont think we have any plans to truly alter his side B. Adds a nice flavor to his game

 

[Deleted member]

Implementing both sounds pretty good.
Choice to set up combos with dragon, or tech chase with choke. Also has potential for mindgames.

Will Yoshi revert to his Melee physics or have B+ physics?
I mean, will characters with better physics in vBrawl/Brawl+ replace physics in P:M or will all characters strictly have Melee physics?

 

[FrozenHobo]

if you want to use both of ganon's side b's then maybe implement it like samus's side b: tilt for one, smash for another.

 

[Rikana]

Or we can make it choke if its in the air. On ground, it will be his melee sideB.

 

[JayFizzy]

Are you guys able to change out sounds? Because i think that the item pick up noise sounds reallyyyy close to fox/falcos's shines.

 

[GP&B]

I find it more appealing to give him both options at any given time, only if that's within the limitations of what you can and cannot change in his moveset (as in, whether it's even possible in the first place).

Even Flame Choke's ground options are excellent. It's putting your opponent into an immediate need to escape and prediction plays a ****load into this (follow an unteched Flame Choke with Dtilt or immediately wavedash/run in either direction in preparation for a tech roll).

 

[GP&B]

Are you guys able to change out sounds? Because i think that the item pick up noise sounds reallyyyy close to fox/falcos's shines.

Yeah, I think they've done noise-swapping (and have even removed sound actions for some things) for a couple of things like the heavy-hit effect (to an extent since they're limited to Brawl's sounds). I imagine if they can find the byte for calling the item sound effect, they could probably do it.

 

[Rudra]

I agree with Ganon having both Chokes if its possible to code.
Flame Choke to Flame Choke chase to Gerudo Dragon (or Dthrow) to Aerial would be sexy, though in the case of the aerial version of GDragon, would it still pop the victim upwards?

 

[Sterowent]

hey, hey, giving him dragon in the air will just leave him with a falcon flavor. if both forms are going to be used, i'd rather see him given the aerial choke with less lag pains and keep the dragon harder to land.

but, in truth, i'd rather just see the choke remain, because if both were implemented, one of two things would happen: 1) the choke in air would blow, because stomp > choke > ganoncide or techchase could happen if it was made to be fast enough not to blow, or 2) like i said, aerial dragon would just feel like falcon again.

besides, how many options do you guys really wanna see ganon have with his monster dmg coupled with effective combos? the choke can seriously do that for him already, right? if he was given both, you'd have to sacrifice a bit of transparency for a mindgame tool that's arguably not gamey enough to do him good, barring the devs creating a huge shift in speed and tempo between them.

 

[Sneak8288]

If adding both is possible, you should make the choke happen if you hold B and dragon if you let it go

 

[Deleted member]

Ganon's old Melee Gerudo Dragon while not being used too often, gave him a great set up into combos and kill moves.

It is semi similar to Falcon's except in the air Falcon's is a meteor.
Falcon's Raptor Boost sends them straight up 90 degrees followed up by more boosts on FFallers, combos, or kill moves.
Ganon's sends them up 45 degrees behind him giving him a grab, combo, set up kill, or tech chase.

It's very similar but different enough from Falcon's to give it a spot in his arsenal.
Besides, multi functioning moves cant be a bad thing to his overall metagame... Just count how many things Fox can do with just his shine...

 

[ValTroX]

Meh, if coding both is possible, it would be good, but I'll certainly settle with just the choke.

 

[Dan_X]

@shell: omg.. Falcon with his N64 usmash would be... Breathtaking. That was the most ****** move in N64. I loved it. Seriously. I'd take it over his Melee usmash any day of the week. He'll still play similar to his Melee self even with the change. I'd love you if you made this happen! :D

 

[JCaesar]

Are you guys able to change out sounds? Because i think that the item pick up noise sounds reallyyyy close to fox/falcos's shines.

I highly support this. The current shine sounds are awful. In fact, the Brawl sounds in general just suck.

 

[Dan_X]

I'm all for changing as many of the brawl sounds as possible. Melee sounds were much better. Either way... Don't think that's possible until a file replacement 4.0 is produced. I hope that happens. Any word on said code?

 

[Revven]

4.0 is already made but it's pretty much buggy with everything (including the SFX) and PW isn't even working on that right now anyway.

 

[Akuma2120]

Question, for characters like Ganondorf, are you gonna make them just like their melee counterparts? Because I would think we'd also want to keep the few unique changes that were given in Brawl that separated him from C. Falcon. That is unless people enjoy clone characters...

 

[ValTroX]

Some changes are staying while some are being reverted. For Ganondorf, Dtilt, Ftilt will be melee's, while he retains his upB and sideB from brawl.

 

[GPDP]

Some changes are staying while some are being reverted. For Ganondorf, Dtilt, Ftilt will be melee's, while he retains his upB and sideB from brawl.

WAT.

Don't tell me we're losing the Leonidas kick!

 

[ValTroX]

ya, we are, because Ftilt in melee could be directed, it's useful for edgeguards. I loved brawls ftilt too, but that's that

 

[Shell]

I'm not sure where you heard that, ValTrox.

F-tilt is currently still the Push Kick for a couple reasons. First, Ganondorf does not have the animation slots or .pac slots for an angled F-tilt. We might be able to rectify this with some creative coding, but it's hard to say.

Secondly, the Push Kick works well in punishing several of the possible Choke follow-ups.

Its range has been slightly extended, and the foot no longer lingers out there so long, though.

 

[shanus]

Ganondorf ftilt is staying as is. Don't know where you heard otherwise.