Project M Social Thread

[NeoZ]

I mean at a casual level. when I got Melee I was like 9 or 10. Apart from the gravity changes and the speed, everything was easy to learn. Especially since you could auto smash with the c-stick.

Edit: And like I said, this problem could have been fixed by altering the speed and even the camera a bit. I grew up playing Megaman X. Now THAT **** was hard.

I'm sorry if this is kinda late, but MMX, hard?
That games most obvious flaw is that it's insanely easy, don't get me wrong, I love it, it's one of my favorite games of all time, but it's anything but hard.

MM1 on the other hand... I can go through MMX and MMX2 without getting hit, yet I get ***** constantly by the yellow devil.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard

 

[jalued]

First of all: AMAZING work on fixing LD!!!

i'm wondering if it has been universally fixed of if it needs to be adjusted for each character? Has the change meant that characters always land on their ankles, and is it now dynamic like melee?

If u don't mind me asking, how did you actually solve the problem?

 

[GHNeko]

First of all: AMAZING work on fixing LD!!!

i'm wondering if it has been universally fixed of if it needs to be adjusted for each character? Has the change meant that characters always land on their ankles, and is it now dynamic like melee?

If u don't mind me asking, how did you actually solve the problem?

Also, whoever told you that doesn't know what they're talking about. Nothing will need to be rewritten completely, as the main code changes exactly what needs to be changed (allowing the bottom stage collision point Y offset from TopN to be determined normally from the SCD bones' offsets instead of forced to 0). Allowing it to not be 0 just opens up a can of worms since the game often references the SCD bottom offset for all kinds of things where they should have had it looking at TopN Y offset, but since they are normally identical at all times in Brawl it didn't matter if it used the wrong one for something or wrote one directly onto the other. Most of the other codes that go with it correct those issues.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

People have been talking about how to get the general audience of Brawl interested in P:M, and I have a couple ideas. Go somewhere, set up a tent or something, and get random people to play P:M (kind of like what Microsoft did with Windows Vista), telling them that this is a prototype for the next Smash Bros game they will all have the ability to play test. Once they've gotten comfortable and (hopefully the Clone Engine is done by this time) play with the new characters and new stages, tell them that this is a mod called Project:M and if they want to play it on their own all they need is a Wii, a copy of Brawl, and an SD card. Any casual Smash player would likely be ecstatic that such a thing exists (trust me, plenty of casuals would love to see Mewtwo in Brawl) contact all their friends who play Smash about it and tell them to try it as well, spreading the fan base and earning P:M legitimacy. That's the only way hype will spread away from Smashboards. The moment you post that new CSS in a forum and show Mewtwo fighting Lucario, they'll be hooked. That's the key to winning the casual audience, none of them will care about balance or competition, and if P:M is marketed to them in this manner, then they will only feel alienated and tell their friends about all these stupid tourney***s who think they can do better than Sakurai.

 

[GHNeko]

hahahahahahahahahaha

you're joking right?

basically, your great PR plan is to lie to casuals and pretend to be part of nintendo's company to showcase a mod of a game that you're masquerading as the 4th installment of Smash.

and that the way to play the prototype is to use an existing copy of brawl and an sd card

so they can follow the instructions to see homebrew stuff that obviously has nothing to do with nintendo

to play this game


looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool


come on now

really?

 

[Slashy]

What about kidnapping random people and forcing them to play at gunpoint?

Or getting Shanus on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon? (Kinda like what Nintendo did with the 3DS)

 

[MonkUnit]

Kidnapping people and forcing them to play Project M when they have a gun to their head is waaaaaaay too extreme. looooool

 

[Slashy]

That post was sarcasm

 

[MonkUnit]

So was mine.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That really doesn't seem like that bad of an idea... Sure, it's kind of a publicity stunt, but hey–think it wouldn't get people's attention?

EDIT: To be fair, it probably would not work well for casuals on Project Melee...

 

[Cemetery]

You people need to get out and socialize more.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I think the biggest way to get casuals to play is first not show them the demo, rather wait to the final release to show them. That way they can't misunderstand that it is being worked on, and that all characters will be there.

After that best way would be word of mouth, all it takes is one person to get 3 people interested, and those three ppl may gey 7 ppl, and so on and so on.

It will take time before it becomes popular because it isn't publicized like a real game, but eventually it should gain speed.

 

[Slashy]

"Marty Marty, you have to come with me to the future!"

"What's the matter doc? My kids turned out just fine."

"No no it's Brawl, Marty. It's going to split the smash community. It's lucky that there's a fix in the future for this. You need to come back with me and prevent the Brawl competitive scene from ever forming!"

 

[kenshen]

You people need to get out and socialize more.

life whats a life ??

 

[MonkUnit]

I have to admit it. I laughed at Slashy's post.

 

[ValTroX]

After you get it right, show us a video/gif of Link's nair landing correctly

 

[Crispy4001]

I think the biggest way to get casuals to play is first not show them the demo, rather wait to the final release to show them. That way they can't misunderstand that it is being worked on, and that all characters will be there.

Actually, I wouldn't agree. If it's presented right and they still knock the "Demo" for not having all the characters, that's a degree of bias and stupidity that Project M will never be able to win over. Full release or not.

These aren't usually the people who will nitpick about the mechanics not being Melee-like enough. Largely because they wouldn't pick up on the differences. We were right to try and introduce Project M through the demo to GAF, 1up, and the like. Especially for the reason that Monkunit mentioned here:

...so that they aren't misinformed and won't misinform others.

One last thing: I don't like the idea of referring to them as casuals. That term can open a hornet's nest in the same way tourney*** can. The habit needs to stop somewhere, even if it doesn't often lead to trouble here.

Better just to say a general audience who likes Smash.

 

[MonkUnit]

BTW Thank you Crispy4001 for being such a great PR person. Keep up the good work.

 

[Crispy4001]

I PR because I love.

 

[MonkUnit]

Best part about Slashy's post. Marty's expression.

 

[ValTroX]

lol yes it was Monk

 

[shanus]

Let the PMBR (and crispy, you did a boss job) worry about PR. I think the success of PM's demo launch hype was a testament to how we did. There will always be haters, but controlling the hate and messaging is a key part to the hype train.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

basically, your great PR plan is to lie to casuals and pretend to be part of nintendo's company to showcase a mod of a game that you're masquerading as the 4th installment of Smash.

and that the way to play the prototype is to use an existing copy of brawl and an sd card

so they can follow the instructions to see homebrew stuff that obviously has nothing to do with nintendo

to play this game


looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool


come on now

really?

If you read my post you would have known that this idea is nearly identical to a publicity campaign Microsoft had for Windows Vista- this is the commercial I'm talking about. The idea is to introduce the mod as something else to reduce the stigma of using a hack. Initially, yes, I will admit it is lieing. However as a whole I don't think it's an awful idea. (though certainly not a good one, if nothing else because of inconvenience of setup) They would be told how to install the mod before they left and would be fully aware it was a mod- not a fourth Smash Bros game. While the idea isn't really feasible on a larger scale, it's certainly possible on a couple college campuses. The idea is rather irrelevant anyway given the PMBR isn't going to worry about PR until the final release.

 

[Crispy4001]

If you read my post you would have known that this idea is nearly identical to a publicity campaign Microsoft had for Windows Vista- this is the commercial I'm talking about. The idea is to introduce the mod as something else to reduce the stigma of using a hack. Initially, yes, I will admit it is lieing. However as a whole I don't think it's an awful idea. (though certainly not a good one, if nothing else because of inconvenience of setup) They would be told how to install the mod before they left and would be fully aware it was a mod- not a fourth Smash Bros game. While the idea isn't really feasible on a larger scale, it's certainly possible on a couple college campuses. The idea is rather irrelevant anyway given the PMBR isn't going to worry about PR until the final release.

The PMBR isn't a corporation trying to sell a product.

I'd rather see them try making a well-edited and concise trailer showing off what makes Project M great, in a way that any Smash fan could get. When the time for a the full release comes, of course.

 

[Slashy]

JKT, the moment you start advertising P:M like that outside of college campuses (I.e. fairs, big name conventions) you justify legal action from Nintendo against the P:M team.

You do bring up a good point, the P:M team should make a greater effort to bring awareness outside of tournaments at anime conventions and MagFEST.

 

[GP&B]

Yeah, the difference between the PMBR and Windows in this scenario is that the PMBR is not Nintendo. Claiming to be Nintendo while also doing modifications undesired by the developers and promoting it as the next Smash installment (and good luck with that) is not going to put you in a good position at all.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Again the moment the game is released it won't be instantly be popular like a full fledged game like brawl. It will take time before word of it starts to spread and people find out about it. Millions aren't following a dojo like for brawl.

 

[Slashy]

But yeah, it would be a good idea to bring P:M to non Smash related conventions, that might get the casual community involved

 

[Crispy4001]

Just saw this today over at shoryuken:

http://shoryuken.com/f7/*ucc*-ark-iii-conway-ar-4-2-11-$1000-feat-jwong-fubarduck-lil-majin-261820/

Happened yesterday unfortunately, but it's cool that they brought Project M along.

 

[jahkzheng]

(Sorry for the late response - heh, it was late and I went to sleep.)

It's not whether they have good points or not, it's what their mistaken points are. I'm also not just looking at it from a smash community perspective, but in the wider lens of fighting game communities and people who generally play videogames.

(point of my last post was that the graphics on the n64 were not 64 bit, they were 32 bit, because nothing can go higher than 32 bit at all, because that's the standard the industry decided on because the human eye can't perceive much more than 32 bit.)

Hmm... ? I was simply referring to the appearance of smash 64 on a largely graphical level. And I only said "64 bit" since the N64's graphics were generated by a 64 bit processor. I suppose you're talking about the fact that most of the games used 32 bit operations - and I'm sure smash was one, but I'm not certain. But I'm very skeptical of the claim that "nothing can go higher than 32 bit at all" simply because of standards... maybe that was true for the N64's gen, or maybe I just don't understand. If you want to tell me in detail, give me a PM - I'll be gone for the next few days anyways.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh wow.

So they fixed landing detection.

 

[slimpyman]

Oh wow.

So they fixed landing detection.

heck ya. maybe its a wip, or whatever, but either way, the progress made in the past few months totally overshadows any developments in the past... hopefully they can include this in the patch.

 

[Ecks]

I'm sorry if this is kinda late, but MMX, hard?
That games most obvious flaw is that it's insanely easy, don't get me wrong, I love it, it's one of my favorite games of all time, but it's anything but hard.

MM1 on the other hand... I can go through MMX and MMX2 without getting hit, yet I get ***** constantly by the yellow devil.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard

Well I can beat most megaman games easily now. Bosses barely even touch me in zx.

But when you're 7 years old, megaman games are hard as hell.

Edit: And I meant the MMX games, not necessarily the first one

 

[GP&B]

MMX games are kind of hard the first time around (X6 has awful stage design though so **** that), but they become much easier with experience than the original MM series. MM1, MM3, and MM5 have always been fairly hard for me (MM1 more for some of the technical problems in that weren't in later games).

 

[ValTroX]

heck ya. maybe its a wip, or whatever, but either way, the progress made in the past few months totally overshadows any developments in the past... hopefully they can include this in the patch.

I don't believe they will release the patch without it, so we have to wait 'til they completly figure it out

 

[Ecks]

I'm willing to wait for a patch with dynamic landing detection. Even if it means waiting till june or july.

 

[jalued]

I'm willing to wait for a patch with dynamic landing detection. Even if it means waiting till june or july.

i hope it doesnt take that long, but yeah its definately worth the wait

 

[Strong Badam]

Just read the past like 5 pages of this thread.

I hate people.

 

[Evilagram]

Actually, I wouldn't agree. If it's presented right and they still knock the "Demo" for not having all the characters, that's a degree of bias and stupidity that Project M will never be able to win over. Full release or not.

Look, we can't give up on people just because of their natural bias. I think we should present it to these people in its final form, so that they have nothing to nitpick at. There will be no argument that the team is incompetent.

We can't just say, "You either accept this or you're stupid and ignorant for not liking our unfinished product." That's getting rid of a ton of potentials just because you have no persuasion skills. I've dealt with a lot of bad artists who say something along the lines of, "If you don't like it, don't look at it." It really comes off as an excuse to avoid criticism.

It bears repeating that I'm doing a ton of research into public relations, and one thing worth mentioning again is that your approach to talking people makes a HUGE difference. If you approach someone the right way, you can convince them of nearly anything.

It's a good idea to plan out PR now, but I think actual promotion should wait until the final version of the mod, because it means an easier time getting people on board when we don't have to worry about it being unfinished here or there.

One thing that needs to be recognized is that Project M has a lot of potential. Imagine if we could revive the competitive spirit that Melee had? Brawl completely dissipated that. Melee threads used to be a regular occasion all over the internet, but now they are scarce. We could bring that back, but only with the right approach to it all.

People have been talking about how to get the general audience of Brawl interested in P:M, and I have a couple ideas. Go somewhere, set up a tent or something, and get random people to play P:M (kind of like what Microsoft did with Windows Vista), telling them that this is a prototype for the next Smash Bros game they will all have the ability to play test. Once they've gotten comfortable and (hopefully the Clone Engine is done by this time) play with the new characters and new stages, tell them that this is a mod called Project:M and if they want to play it on their own all they need is a Wii, a copy of Brawl, and an SD card. Any casual Smash player would likely be ecstatic that such a thing exists (trust me, plenty of casuals would love to see Mewtwo in Brawl) contact all their friends who play Smash about it and tell them to try it as well, spreading the fan base and earning P:M legitimacy. That's the only way hype will spread away from Smashboards. The moment you post that new CSS in a forum and show Mewtwo fighting Lucario, they'll be hooked. That's the key to winning the casual audience, none of them will care about balance or competition, and if P:M is marketed to them in this manner, then they will only feel alienated and tell their friends about all these stupid tourney***s who think they can do better than Sakurai.

In terms of this whole "Tricking people" method, that's ********. Don't come to the people on false pretenses. Letting them play, then informing them of it being a mod is a decent idea, but don't claim you're nintendo.

Just saw this today over at shoryuken:

http://shoryuken.com/f7/*ucc*-ark-iii-conway-ar-4-2-11-$1000-feat-jwong-fubarduck-lil-majin-261820/

Happened yesterday unfortunately, but it's cool that they brought Project M along.

This is very nice

Hmm... ? I was simply referring to the appearance of smash 64 on a largely graphical level. And I only said "64 bit" since the N64's graphics were generated by a 64 bit processor. I suppose you're talking about the fact that most of the games used 32 bit operations - and I'm sure smash was one, but I'm not certain. But I'm very skeptical of the claim that "nothing can go higher than 32 bit at all" simply because of standards... maybe that was true for the N64's gen, or maybe I just don't understand. If you want to tell me in detail, give me a PM - I'll be gone for the next few days anyways.

Nothing can go higher than 32bit, COLORWISE. The N64 has a 64 bit PROCESSOR which it used to calculate the 3d.

Processors and colors COULD go higher than 32 bit, but nobody has a screen that can display 64 bit COLORS, and it's generally considered a useless effort.

I say this because I'm a huge pixel art buff, and I am sick to death of people calling things 8 bit.

 

[Crispy4001]

Look, we can't give up on people just because of their natural bias. I think we should present it to these people in its final form, so that they have nothing to nitpick at. There will be no argument that the team is incompetent.

We can't just say, "You either accept this or you're stupid and ignorant for not liking our unfinished product." That's getting rid of a ton of potentials just because you have no persuasion skills. I've dealt with a lot of bad artists who say something along the lines of, "If you don't like it, don't look at it." It really comes off as an excuse to avoid criticism.

It bears repeating that I'm doing a ton of research into public relations, and one thing worth mentioning again is that your approach to talking people makes a HUGE difference. If you approach someone the right way, you can convince them of nearly anything.

It's a good idea to plan out PR now, but I think actual promotion should wait until the final version of the mod, because it means an easier time getting people on board when we don't have to worry about it being unfinished here or there.

One thing that needs to be recognized is that Project M has a lot of potential. Imagine if we could revive the competitive spirit that Melee had? Brawl completely dissipated that. Melee threads used to be a regular occasion all over the internet, but now they are scarce. We could bring that back, but only with the right approach to it all.

Again, Project M isn't a product. It's a fanmod. The way we approach promoting it is still important, but ultimately people will take to it or won't. Or be open to the concept or not. That's not an excuse, it's a reality.

Those who grasp at whatever straws they can to insult it without playing it (ie: Project M sux look they took out characters! It's not by Nintendo therefore it sux, etc) won't change their mind. Us trying to talk them into it over a forum won't work, period. Basically, we can't convert the trolls, and it's dumb to try.

Those with misconceptions they can own up to if corrected, perhaps. But trolls, no. That kind of bias should be regarded as pretty much irreconciable, given the outlets we have to work with.