Project M Social Thread

[Xebenkeck]

Just because there other better tools to edge guard with doesn't make the use of moonwalking disappear. Moonwalk bair with falcon is pretty useful but just not the BEST option

This, an example is that in Brawl, falco's dtilt is a good move, but no one uses it bcuz ftilt is a better option in almost all situations. Likewise moonwalking is useful, just there are other options that are better/safer/easier to do.

 

[ETWIST51294]

My question to you is, What exactly is your goal by saying moonwalking isn't useful?

Ther isn't one. I'm just telling you guys. The only thing I really know in smash is falcon, I ****ing KNOW falcon. The only other person who posts here that I know actually knows hhow to play falcon that posts here is strongbad. So I'm just telling you falcons moonwalk isn't useful. You can go to the falcon biards and ask them if you think I'm wrong. I can guarantee they'll tell you the same thing. It's situational.

Edit: sneak knows how the play falcon too since he has all of that exp. With $mike and Nando.

 

[Sneak8288]

lol changed after the edit

 

[Crispy4001]

Anyhow, I'm curious how the LD fix might affect the Brawl newcomers (or what we know of their builds so far). It's a little hard for me to think up examples though, nothing like Ganon at least.

At least that mention of Snake's back-air working out well pages back is good.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Lucas uair can be djc real low to the ground now i guess, and, i would have to check frame data, but he may be able to double fair in a short-hop now.

 

[Evilagram]

Which includes trolls.

Your idea that Project M can be for every Smash fan is a high minded concept, but something that when taken too literally would get in the way of bringing people around for the long run.

There's a difference between being skeptical and dismissive. Entertaining the dismissive people as if they'll come around eventually is how you derail a discussion and push skeptics towards taking a side or (more likely) distancing themselves while the old farts bicker. Take it from a forum moderator of a well-known gaming site (1up) ... keeping a ****storm from happening allows your message get out clearer.

Trying to your darnedest to 'convert' the dismissive is how you get a ****storm. You may think you can change them, but ultimately its not worth it.

Is this thread a ****storm right now? Because if it is, then it means my methods don't work.

The thing is, on the internet, most people don't persuade, they argue and rage. With the right wording, even the dismissive can be reasoned with. Again, I say this because I've done it. I've gotten myself unbanned from sites and put on the payroll before with the right wording.

Arguing with people who are dismissive is not a matter of proving their points wrong, it's a matter of asking them to elaborate on their points, and trying to reason with them, which means making them decide their points are wrong, not pointing out why they are wrong.

Arguing with people and convincing people are two different ballgames and that is something that needs to be understood.

 

[Crispy4001]

Is this thread a ****storm right now? Because if it is, then it means my methods don't work.

No, not really. But you can't possibly relate discussion in here to the discussion ... out there.
The devs troll this thread harder than anyone, pretty much. (in jest, of course)

Arguing with people who are dismissive is not a matter of proving their points wrong, it's a matter of asking them to elaborate on their points, and trying to reason with them, which means making them decide their points are wrong, not pointing out why they are wrong.

Arguing with people and convincing people are two different ballgames and that is something that needs to be understood.

And I agree with most of that. For an argument, it's possible. But convincing the dismissive that they were acting somewhat thickheaded won't convince them in itself to try it. Gamer98 in the GAF thread is a great example. They made a good case, but he's certainly not going to be trying the demo or the final release. I'm just glad more words weren't wasted.

 

[Strong Badam]

Falcon's moonwalk is more for aesthetic appeal than actual practical use. Modern days Falcons such as S2J and Hax rarely use it at high level play, and it's for a good reason; there are better options.
Falcons like Silent Spectre play the game more for fun and to please the crowd than specifically to win, which is why he moonwalks more than just about any high level Falcon player.

 

[Evilagram]

I certainly can relate discussion in here to discussion out there, because all this discussion is a matter of the way we talk to each other, the pace of the conversation. This type of thing can happen ANYWHERE as long as you led the discussion right. As said, I've had this happen on 4chan.

Gamer98 is the type who only stopped in once to say his piece and leave, not everyone is like that. If someone cares enough to reply more than once, I guarantee that I can convince them.

Gamer98 is not representative of the entire dismissive populace.

When someone like that comes up, you ask them to elaborate on why they think the way they do. If they do not reply, it is not worth bothering with. If they do reply, then it is possible to persuade them.

 

[Crispy4001]

I certainly can relate discussion in here to discussion out there, because all this discussion is a matter of the way we talk to each other, the pace of the conversation. This type of thing can happen ANYWHERE as long as you led the discussion right. As said, I've had this happen on 4chan.

Except the trolling or outright dismissive attitude we're talking about doesn't crop up here, or at least hasn't in a long time.

Here's an analogy: you're trying to compare the taste of an apple to an orange by describing them both as fruit.

When someone like that comes up, you ask them to elaborate on why they think the way they do. If they do not reply, it is not worth bothering with. If they do reply, then it is possible to persuade them.

If only. It is possible to make an attempt to persuade them.

 

[ETWIST51294]

PMs are a useful feature on SWF.





>___________________________________>

 

[Crispy4001]

Yeah, I'd be ok with that.

It'd still be nice to hear some more thoughts about LD relative to the Brawl newcomers.

 

[Evilagram]

Taking this to PMs.

 

[MonkUnit]

They work just fine. As for moves like snake's bair, you don't sink into the ground. What else do you really need to know about brawl chars with the new LD?

 

[Crispy4001]

They work just fine. As for moves like snake's bair, you don't sink into the ground. What else do you really need to know about brawl chars with the new LD?

I dunno, if it's easier to get in Lucas' back air from a short hop (fast fall)? Stuff like that. It's not really a need to know, just curiosity to what less obvious things it might aid.

 

[crush]

Falcon's moonwalk is more for aesthetic appeal than actual practical use. Modern days Falcons such as S2J and Hax rarely use it at high level play, and it's for a good reason; there are better options.
Falcons like Silent Spectre play the game more for fun and to please the crowd than specifically to win, which is why he moonwalks more than just about any high level Falcon player.

SS doesnt play the game "more for fun". its necessary sometimes, especially out of a dashdance. SS also never really sandbags/plays for fun/to please the crowd. moonwalking is very useful for falcon, most falcons (including mango, who cant moonwalk to the left) have trouble moonwalking in certain directions for some reason.

 

[Xebenkeck]

How does wario's dair function? his legs are above his head, so when does it detect when he lands considering he is up side down.

 

[Strong Badam]

Kinda like how Fox's u-air animation has his feet above him during part of it?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Sorta, cause isn't the bone attached to a characters legs or in between them? I don't know much about the topnbone

 

[MonkUnit]

How does wario's dair function? his legs are above his head, so when does it detect when he lands considering he is up side down.

Wario's dair functions as a meteor. He is detected on the ground when his butt hits the ground. TopN hits the ground at that point.

 

[kaizo13]

umm.....Wario has a new Dair BestNess

 

[Xebenkeck]

umm.....Wario has a new Dair BestNess

He does lol, can't say i've seen it yet then. Or noticed it in the streams

 

[ETWIST51294]

He just falls really fast with a butt slam.

I couldn't L cancel it when i had the chance to play with him. lol

 

[Metmetm3t]

What is the back room's opinion on the amazing grab range boost pivot grabbing gives?

It seems like it makes some 2gud tech chases even better :\

 

[Rikana]

I see no problem with boost grabs.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Pivot grabs aren't boost grabs. I have no problem with pivot grabs either.

Are boost grabs coming back? You know, dash attack immedietly grab? Could you guys make it a good AT?

 

[kaizo13]

the grab range isn't actually increased in pivot grabs is it? so whats the problem?

Edit: and i believe boost grabs are simply just harder to execute similar to how DACUS are now

 

[ETWIST51294]

the grab range isn't actually increased in pivot grabs is it? so whats the problem?

I think it is, I'm not 100% though. I'm prolly wrong.

Edit: and i believe boost grabs are simply just harder to execute

What? Boost grabs are just JC grabs but you press A intead of Y. Same timing.

edit: oh you mean boost grabbing is in? I haven't even tried to see since it was so useless in Melee.

 

[Strong Badam]

Boost grabbing is canceling your dash attack with a grab within the first few frames. It's only noticeable on Fox/Falco/Sheik in Melee because everyone else doesn't have good, fast movement on their dash attacks.
It's still present in Project M and generally more viable on more characters.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Boost grabbing is canceling your dash attack with a grab within the first few frames. It's only noticeable on Fox/Falco/Sheik in Melee because everyone else doesn't have good, fast movement on their dash attacks.
It's still present in Project M and generally more viable on more characters.

Oh, it's noticeable by more, noticeable in a retardeed way. lol Like Falcon's is basically a standing dash grab.

 

[GHNeko]

Hey! Sonic's moonwalk is hella useful.

You just gotta be creative with it.

Also you guys didnt even donate to Magus. Ya'll should wait extra time for a patch for that.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

I will sometime soon hopefully. The next time its possible for me.

 

[Rikana]

Neko is donating his 3DS to Magus.

Boost grab in Brawl with Snake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIlcvTChcL8

Boost pivot grab in Brawl with Snake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPKWvjeug2g

 

[ETWIST51294]

Is boost grabs the same way in Brawl? And is the pivot boost grab just a dash into a pivot grab?

You guys should totally explain Brawl techs to me.

RAR?

Wavebounce?

Anymore I should know? I know DACUS.

 

[Archangel]

anyone know if they plan on doing something with edgehoging? For me so far it literally does not work anymore. You perfect time it and get up and they still grab the ledge....that isn't right....

 

[Metmetm3t]

well it's stuff like this that i was talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpn8X9uhKIM&t=144

 

[ETWIST51294]

I don't see the problem with it really. Techchasing is fun.

 

[MonkUnit]

anyone know if they plan on doing something with edgehoging? For me so far it literally does not work anymore. You perfect time it and get up and they still grab the ledge....that isn't right....

That would be ledge occupancy, which we have not been able to edit yet.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Is boost grabs the same way in Brawl? And is the pivot boost grab just a dash into a pivot grab?

You guys should totally explain Brawl techs to me.

RAR?

Wavebounce?

Anymore I should know? I know DACUS.

RAR - reverse aerial rush, press the opposite direction right before you jump cause you to keep all forward momentum, but your chacters back will be facing forward.

Wavebounce- setting c-stick to specials and while going one direction, pressingthe c-stick the opposite direction will cause you do your side-b with a backwards momentum

Glide Toss - performing a roll and throwing a item at the same time causes your character to slide a fair distance

DACUS- you know

ShieldStun SDI - you can SDI while in shield stun

B-reverse - pressing the opposite direction right before doing a B move causes your character to turn around and perform the B move in that direction. Sometimes adding a wonky momentum shift.

momentum breaking - fastfalling your fastest aerial allows you to jump earlier which allows you to stop momentum from being launched.

ummmm. i think those are the major ones besides the million character specific ones.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Thanks. Damn, I need the character specifics. >_>