Project M Social Thread

[shanus]

Still a Space Animal. So my point isn't exactly invalidated. But thanks for the correction.

He is also the top melee player who entered, so his placing is in no way reflective of his character.

 

[slartibartfast42]

Ok, I am definitely not reading through this whole thing to see if what I want to post already has been. Anyways, I'm really loving this release. I love how techs from Brawl and 64 are still in like jumping into reverse bair and taunt canceling are in. Even thought it's not JUST like melee, it's very similar and very fun and easy to get into from having played melee.

Anyways, I would like to point out one problem I noticed... Marth's counter still does not have set knockback. I was playing my friend, he was fox, went to upthrow uair me on FD when I was at around 120% and he was around 80%... I used counter (because I actually do that in melee sometimes >_<) and he hits me and dies off the top. It was hilarious but I think you should fix that if you can XD.

 

[Revven]

Anyways, I would like to point out one problem I noticed... Marth's counter still does not have set knockback. I was playing my friend, he was fox, went to upthrow uair me on FD when I was at around 120% and he was around 80%... I used counter (because I actually do that in melee sometimes >_<) and he hits me and dies off the top. It was hilarious but I think you should fix that if you can XD.

We're aware of this and have already made a fix to this fairly recently.

Also, as an aside, long time no see.

 

[Vigilante]

Just saying that Fox and Falco are highly technical and their apparent overpowered nature comes with skill. It is hard to get good with them, so at good tourneys, those who play those too are often also highly skilled. Vanz is very good at tech skills.

Link is nowhere as technical, but he requires mindgames to be good. For the boomerang to be used efficiently, bounce it. The floor works well in most stages. Bombs can be dropped without being thrown. And titls, especially up tilts, can be used for combo purposes. If you can't play tricks on others, Link may not be the best choice.

 

[The Upholder]

<3 Link

and I haven't seen slarti in a long time either, where you been at?

 

[Brian_Link]

He is also the top melee player who entered, so his placing is in no way reflective of his character.

My point was more directed that it wasn't a Melee mid-low tier character that won. It was a standard top tier Melee character that won. I was trying to get to the point that its not surprising that a high tier character won Pound 5, but we should expect to see some of the mid-lower tier characters win in future tournaments. But I'm going to shut up before I make too much of a fool of myself.

 

[JCaesar]

Shanus's point is that this tournament was won by the player, not the character. And once you see the videos of GFs, you'll realize how close this tourney was to being won by Zelda instead of Fox.

 

[GHNeko]

My point was more directed that it wasn't a Melee mid-low tier character that won. It was a standard top tier Melee character that won. I was trying to get to the point that its not surprising that a high tier character won Pound 5, but we should expect to see some of the mid-lower tier characters win in future tournaments. But I'm going to shut up before I make too much of a fool of myself.

This is pretty insulting to Vanz lol

 

[hotdogturtle]

but just buffing characters won't change the match-up all to much. Maybe you have to avoid some new big damage combo's, but that doesn't change the match-up move a still beats move b.

That's not even true in the slightest bit.

Changing characters drastically changes matchups.

 

[Brian_Link]

This is pretty insulting to Vanz lol

I'm not trying to insult Vanz. I realize he won a very competitive tourney. I realize he is an excellent player. I'm not saying that he only won because he used Fox.

All I'm saying is a Fox, a very well established character, won the tournament. But in future tournaments, we shouldn't be surprised when its not Fox, Falco, Shiek, Marth winning, because the other characters can claim the spot due to how well they were buffed. JCeasar, your post in my view only adds to what I was trying to say to Jojo. Recall he said "but just buffing characters won't change the match-up all to much."

I'm sorry for not being as clear enough and for insulting anyone if I did, that was not my intent.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've PLAYED link against a few really good melee players in my area, and I personally think that Link may be a little TOO buffed up. What a character can't do is just as important as what they can do, it really adds to their depth and makes them interesting to play, working against your weakness, nay making your weakness an asset is what makes the game fun.. I personally feel like Link may have lost too many of his weaknesses making him flow a lot better (I kind of liked the clunkiness..) But anyway, it sounds like A2Z lost a few matches expecting to own like he did Bbrawl and came immediately to the forums to lay out his grievances. Not only that we have people here rousing to support him because they probably played link for 2 matches and didn't fare too good as well.. I highly doubt many of you claiming link to be a bad character really took the time to PLAY him for more than say.. 10 matches. think about the amount of time it took to develop jiggs's gameplay before she was considered a decent character.

Uh, no. I didn't lose to anyone and start complaining that Link sucked. I picked up the character, experimented with stuff, beat some people who didn't know what they were doing, still saw where Link's limits were, and realized that Link was still bad for the same reasons as usual. If I was losing with this character, I would be complaining that I suck at this game.

Hell I enjoy moves like Link's Up-smash, Up-B, F-tilt, and N-air, but the MAIN thing Link has going for him is some situationally good reward on hit. His projectiles are still bad for actually forcing people to do anything, and his approach sucks. So basically his best strategy is walling, which he's GOOD at, but walling sucks in Smash when you don't have strong camping to back it.

Furthermore you're really understating how much Link is hurt by the new mechanics in recovery. The reason Link's recovery was so good in Melee was because the hookshot to stage was obnoxiously good at avoiding ledgedrop tactics. Now he gets ***** by them like anyone else does (except for Fox and Jiggs), and the Bomb recovery isn't exactly what I would call reliable enough to get around that.

And honestly I'm personally shocked at how long it took people to realize Jiggs was good, though it probably doesn't mean anything that back when I bought Melee, I personally found it obvious that Jiggs was good. But seriously, analyzing tools is a lot simpler than you're letting on.

 

[shanus]

At the same time, we buffed his aerial upB momentum (horizontal and vertical) potential and hitbox size to better cover gimping options until we can fix zairs, so while it doesn't competely give him the same recovery as before, it also addresses the weakness too. It's pretty obvious recovering with his upB now how much better it is than in melee (and brawl).

Seems your analysis forgot that crucial detail, sir.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Three words for crying out loud:

Ledge drop tactics.

 

[Revven]

I really really think that's enough A2Z. You've made your point clear and we've made our point clear. Should Link need some OTHER kind of buff, he'll get it. Otherwise please drop the subject, it's been going on far too long already. Thank you for your feedback.

 

[shanus]

Three words for crying out loud:

Ledge drop tactics.

Yeah, they were stupid easy on his upB in melee because its priority and mobility was *terrible*, so he had to require on zair so much more as just a pure requirement for recovery. Now he has a significantly more functioning upB, so he isn't as limited in using it for a decent recovery. Yes it's not perfect or as diverse as his melee zair, but your speaking to it from such a top-level that you don't even understand that it functions well from practice. Hell, you probably didn't even know upB was changed because the more you post, the more it seems you haven't even played the game for more than 5 minutes.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I personally don't even think Link needs a recovery buff. Recovery is overrated in Melee, unless you're Jiggs. I don't feel like repeating that what I'm looking for is balanced on stage tactics.

Yeah, they were stupid easy on his upB in melee because its priority and mobility was *terrible*, so he had to require on zair so much more as just a pure requirement for recovery. Now he has a significantly more functioning upB, so he isn't as limited in using it for a decent recovery. Yes it's not perfect or as diverse as his melee zair, but your speaking to it from such a top-level that you don't even understand that it functions well from practice. Hell, you probably didn't even know upB was changed because the more you post, the more it seems you haven't even played the game for more than 5 minutes.

I'm actually pretty well aware that you changed his Up-B. I read the Dojo site constantly.

Okay take Marth's Up-B. It's hitbox and distance are UTTERLY stupid. Still gets wrecked hard by good ledge games. It's the reason why Mario vs Marth actually isn't unwinnable for Mario.

Links Up-B really isn't any better. Hitboxes mean jack when recovering against someone who is occupying the edge. Yeah mobility kinda helps, but if you have to land on stage to avoid getting ledgedrop *****, that still sucks massively.

 

[shanus]

I personally don't even think Link needs a recovery buff. Recovery is overrated in Melee, unless you're Jiggs. I don't feel like repeating that what I'm looking for is balanced on stage tactics.

We don't think so either, we'd love to get his melee zair back, but we can't yet.

As I said before, I'm open to discussing Link balance changes, but as far as I can tell, Link mains seem pleased (Izaw, BRLINK), others as well. We had polled skler on what he thought needed changing for melee Link to be viable, and we installed those buffs and more. I'd like to see a high-level link player use link and from there, we can judge accordingly.

Okay take Marth's Up-B. It's hitbox and distance are UTTERLY stupid. Still gets wrecked hard by good ledge games. It's the reason why Mario vs Marth actually isn't unwinnable for Mario.

Links Up-B really isn't any better. Hitboxes mean jack when recovering against someone who is occupying the edge. Yeah mobility kinda helps, but if you have to land on stage to avoid getting ledgedrop *****, that still sucks massively.

Brawl ledge occupancy makes this argument entirely untrue. Also, the lack of light shielding into edgehog also changes edgeguarding marth as well.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Brawl ledge occupancy makes this argument entirely untrue. Also, the lack of light shielding into edgehog also changes edgeguarding marth as well.

I don't get what you're talking about. It's not hard to ledgedrop **** Marth's Up-B in BRAWL. It's not the best option the majority of the time granted, but seriously, it's not hard to actually ledgedrop and hit Marth out of his recovery in that game if you really want to do it.

I'm personally not seeing the loss of lightshield edgehog being a huge deal, given that most of the Marths I play usually DI well enough to land on stage if necessary. At any rate the point I'm making is that ledgedrop tactics are really really good.

Yeah Brawl ledge occupancy kinda forces you to think a little more, but really, the fundamentals behind ledgedrop tactics really never changed.

 

[Deleted member]

How does Link not have decent walling and camping?

I feel like the addition of z-air tremendously helps Link both wall and camp.
Not to mention a better boomerang, bombs, and even arrows...

I think his forward air is more disjointed than Melee's as well, but I'm not sure.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Link has good WALLING.

His camping sucks. How is he going to force Fox to do anything besides laser camp him? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Deleted member]

By using his walling and pressuring Fox into an unfavorable situation that Fox is forced to pick a choice from a limited pool of options.

Probably is gonna depend on the stage as well. Dreamland and Battlefield are likely to be more favorable for Fox.

Link has the ability to do this. He's not his feeble, ****ty Melee version anymore. He has so much more at his disposal to deal with Fox.

 

[Stevo]

Link M's run attack is pretty good at catching campy foxes off guard

 

[ClinkStryphart]

About the Wi-Fi in japan its true that its flawless because unlike US they actually fixed their connections awhile back. There was a post about some time ago. I dunno why they never bothered trying to fix the US sides.

 

[The Upholder]

oh god just stop already.

 

[GHNeko]

GG No A.

 

[GPDP]

About the Wi-Fi in japan its true that its flawless because unlike US they actually fixed their connections awhile back. There was a post about some time ago. I dunno why they never bothered trying to fix the US sides.

 

[The Upholder]

 

[slartibartfast42]

OMG. Falco400. I've been playing the meleez in canton a ton. But now we play project M too ^_^ How have you been without much of a brawl scene in Cleveland anymore?

EDIT: You should look at the ohio thread on smashmods.

 

[Ecks]

Do correct me if I'm wrong but, the pmbr intends to release a final build eventually with every character being "viable" and after a tier list is made (should give enough time to develop the metagame) they will make subtle changes to bad characters to make them better right?

if so, why is this whole link thing still going on?

Edit: And I found Link to be really good in the demo. I'm not a Link main so I won't discuss anything regarding him.

 

[JCaesar]

^ More or less yeah. The one thing we will not do is make hasty balance changes to characters whose metagames have barely had their surface scratched.

 

[Ulevo]

So in other words, A2Z should stop posting about Link already.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I have been having troubles, sonic will not recover, link, marth and snake can not run. What is going on?

 

[ValTroX]

^Very good question, wtf is up with your controller/console?

 

[Ecks]

^ More or less yeah. The one thing we will not do is make hasty balance changes to characters whose metagames have barely had their surface scratched.

And since Link is a popular character, I'm positive his metagame will develop.

So there you go.
This whole Link thing is pointless. If a character is bad then they will do something about it. Theres no need to worry, it's just a demo anyway.

 

[Ecks]

I have been having troubles, sonic will not recover, link, marth and snake can not run. What is going on?

Check your gct. This happened to me when I used marth m with the brawl plus gct. (that and major lag on his moves)

sorry for double post, It's my ipod's fault.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Shanus's point is that this tournament was won by the player, not the character. And once you see the videos of GFs, you'll realize how close this tourney was to being won by Zelda instead of Fox.

talking about this anyone know when the videos will be put up? I really want to see what a good zelda looks like

 

[ValTroX]

question, metal cavern goes over?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Mushroomy Kingdom

 

[MonkUnit]

talking about this anyone know when the videos will be put up? I really want to see what a good zelda looks like

The Pound 5 Project M Demo videos should be going up this week courtesy of JCaesar! http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007

question, metal cavern goes over?

STGMARIOPAST_00.pac and STGMARIOPAST_01.pac (Mushroomy Kingdom)

 

[Lolo_knight]

I have been having troubles, sonic will not recover, link, marth and snake can not run. What is going on?

Ok i thought that was only me.... my characters like.. go into dash then run then dash again while holding left or right on the controler, mostly classic controler or waybird (i dunno how to spell it) while they function without a flaw in melee, i even cleaned the classic controllers (disamble them) what about the gct i should check?