Project M Social Thread

[Plum]

This thread needs more Bombsoldier hype.
Do people remember seeing those Bombsoldier vs Ken videos a few years ago and creaming themselves?

Personally, I think Brawl AT's that add to a character's game are healthy for the game, especially when even top tiers get more to play around with and expand their games with. B reversals add a lot to a multitude of characters games, so it would be a shame to loose them.

 

[Stevo]

looks weird for falco's lasers though....

also doesn't make sense in a realistic way, but then again, what is realistic about a mid air jump

 

[Archangel]

This thread needs more Bombsoldier hype.
Do people remember seeing those Bombsoldier vs Ken videos a few years ago and creaming themselves?

Personally, I think Brawl AT's that add to a character's game are healthy for the game, especially when even top tiers get more to play around with and expand their games with. B reversals add a lot to a multitude of characters games, so it would be a shame to loose them.

That Match reshaped Smash history to me in the same light that Mango vs Armada did. Although If you told Ken and Bombsoldier then that a Puff and Peach would put on the same kind of show in grand finals of one of the biggest events to date they'd have LOL'd in your face.

As for reverse B....I wish there was a way to individualize momentum so that some could do it if needed.

 

[Rikana]

This thread needs more Bombsoldier hype.
Do people remember seeing those Bombsoldier vs Ken videos a few years ago and creaming themselves?

This. Bombsoldier inspired so many people to pick up Falco because of his gameplays against Ken. Though he'd get crushed going against many other Falcos now but he is definitely someone who brought Falco to where he is now.

-----

And if anyone were to test play/make changes to Pit I would nominate Valuno. valpit2gud.

 

[Archangel]

This. Bombsoldier inspired so many people to pick up Falco because of his gameplays against Ken. Though he'd get crushed going against many other Falcos now but he is definitely someone who brought Falco to where he is now.

-----

And if anyone were to test play/make changes to Pit I would nominate Valuno. valpit2gud.

If pit ends up a scrub character I'll bomb all your houses....

Btw What do you guys think of Arrow Cancels?

 

[Sora-kun]

If pit ends up a scrub character I'll bomb all your houses....

Btw What do you guys think of Arrow Cancels?

Does Pit really need Arrow cancels? =/
I think his Side B should be made into something that's actually used <_>
I dun liek the halo.

and the HIYAYAYAZZZ is the most stupid thing ever.

 

[Deleted member]

This thread needs more Bombsoldier hype.
Do people remember seeing those Bombsoldier vs Ken videos a few years ago and creaming themselves?

Personally, I think Brawl AT's that add to a character's game are healthy for the game, especially when even top tiers get more to play around with and expand their games with. B reversals add a lot to a multitude of characters games, so it would be a shame to loose them.

I think the reversals are nice too, but I'd avoid unintentionally making Falco better.

I'm sure it'll do wonders to help stuff like Samus's Missile cancelling, Mario's fireballs, and Pika's thunderbolts, Link's Boomerang, and more.


Slightly, off topic. Falco's lasers don't feel as they do in Melee, but not because of landing detection. Is there a sensitivity/input issue where Brawl does the inputs differently? I think I couldn't use the lasers as well as Melee because there might be an problem there.

 

[Sneak8288]

i have to say that "laser pivot momentum thingy" Bombsoldier is abusing looks awful. Any plans on removing it? it screams Brawl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJhxLN8O5A0

If it gets removed it would take sooooo much away from my snake

 

[Stevo]

it really does look awful though.... (just like the aerial grapple stuff right now, IMO)

 

[Sneak8288]

it just looks awful wit falcos lasers... doing it with snakes grenades is dam near essential for mindgames

 

[Sora-kun]

I think the reversals are nice too, but I'd avoid unintentionally making Falco better.

I'm sure it'll do wonders to help stuff like Samus's Missile cancelling, Mario's fireballs, and Pika's thunderbolts, Link's Boomerang, and more.


Slightly, off topic. Falco's lasers don't feel as they do in Melee, but not because of landing detection. Is there a sensitivity/input issue where Brawl does the inputs differently? I think I couldn't use the lasers as well as Melee because there might be an problem there.

I thought it only worked with aerial neutral B moves?

 

[vectorace]

If pit ends up a scrub character I'll bomb all your houses....

Btw What do you guys think of Arrow Cancels?

don't worry pit is getting some good attention

and he doesn't need arrow cancels now.......at all..........or ever.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

One thing I have noticed about P:M is that everyone seems to live for a really long time comapared to melee. I actually don't mind that; how do the designers feel about it? It was the case in Brawl+ too, where no matter what the dev team did, everyone was still living to like 190%. Is it boundaries? KB? Gravity? What's the deal with that?

As for attacks that hit twice:

I think any attack that uses a disjoint and hits twice in succession (Ike, not Lucario) should use this mechanic. So Marth, Ike, Pit, Link, and Toon Link might all have uses for that. This way it's used some, but not totally overused.

 

[GuruKid]

I thought it only worked with aerial neutral B moves?

B-reversals work with all specials, not just neutral B.

B-reversed Rock Smash is a kickass mindgame. :-)

 

[Sneak8288]

I thought it only worked with aerial neutral B moves?

nah you can do it with any b move i think, I used to do it with zss' side neutral and upb all the time

 

[vectorace]

personally i like reverse DB with marth quite interesting with momentum as well ^ . ^

 

[jalued]

is there any way to remove it just for falco or is that impossible? cause it looks really jerky and out of place with him, especially since he uses lasers alot

 

[vectorace]

is there any way to remove it just for falco or is that impossible? cause it looks really jerky and out of place with him, especially since he uses lasers alot

it looks slower to so its only really effective as a mindgame and the only reason i could see that is to get a DBL laser UpSmash.

but i do agree it does need to go

 

[Sneak8288]

if he would've fast fell it, it wouldn't have looked as bad

 

[JCaesar]

Long lives in Brawl+ were mostly due to weaker kill moves and much stronger recoveries (part of which is the lower gravity). Kill moves and gravity in P:M should be on par with Melee, but recoveries in general are still a bit stronger, not to mention the reduced ledge occupancy. I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing (I personally think it makes the edgeguarding game more intense and active than it was in Melee) but characters in general will probably live slightly longer than in Melee. Oh yeah, almost forgot about the stronger DI too.

And I agree about the 2 part dsmashes. It seems like a pretty cool idea.

I thought it only worked with aerial neutral B moves?

It works with a lot of specials. It worked with all of ROB's specials in Brawl and there were some pretty neat ATs you could do with it.

I mean, I guess that still applies now with P:M but I haven't really fooled around with it much. It was easier in Brawl because the game moved a lot slower and there was a lot less going on at any given moment. Playing P:M is like superfast information overload by comparison and I never really think about wavebouncing.

I definitely don't think it should be removed. More nonbroken technical options = good.

 

[Anth0ny]

holy **** i didn't know you guys got bombsoldier to play it!

Awesome stuff.

 

[Revven]

One thing I have noticed about P:M is that everyone seems to live for a really long time comapared to melee. I actually don't mind that; how do the designers feel about it? It was the case in Brawl+ too, where no matter what the dev team did, everyone was still living to like 190%. Is it boundaries? KB? Gravity? What's the deal with that?

It's the combination of these three things:

1) Brawl characters like Sonic do not have their gravity in the same range as the Melee characters do, meaning they have the gravity values we were using from before Melee .dat files were cracked. We have to go back and revisit them as we either make them fit Melee or just go back in general if we think we finished them.

2) DI, it's still Brawl DI. Yes, Brawl DI allows you to live to ridiculous %s.

3) Some stages that were in Melee (i.e Battlefield) do not have the same death boundaries in size as they did in Melee. This may not be a big factor when you consider the previous two and it also depends on the stage as well, but it's there.

 

[jalued]

if he would've fast fell it, it wouldn't have looked as bad

I think its more that in melee all current momentum is conserved slightly, even marth's sideB stall.

In brawl vanilla however there isnt even a ground to air momentum code (nintendo ftw :/ ) so it meant that techniques like this were effective. But it doesnt suit a melee style game and looks as someone said earlyer: very brawlish

 

[vectorace]

i was actually thinking it was vBrawl DI no wonder.....

 

[Sovereign]

It hasn't been said enough, this is an amazing idea. Are there any other attacks this might work for? Not to over use it but I feel like it's a mechanic that might work for other moves.

I'm trying to get your secret student into P:M, Red. He said if they fixed Ike's Dsmash, he'd totally be down for playing the game. Also, Ike's Dsmash looks like your supposed to be pressing the attack button twice for it to come out, characters the swing like Link and Marth, not so much, since they seem to swing their swords more fluently, on their Dsmashes.

Yeah, I did that. :V Speed of arrows is B- and controlability is exactly half way between vBrawl and Brawl-. No one really seems to play pit in the pmbr, so I haven't really gotten any feedback on it. :/

Well, you should either give the arrows a speed that's just a bit slower than vBrawl's arrows, and put the flexibility back to normal, so that then the arrows are slow enough to curve without the angles and sharp turns. Other then that, Pit seems really solid.

At first I thought Wing Canceling was gone, but then I saw you can air dodge out of them, and viola, Wing Canceled Wave Dashing. It turns it to be a more solid tech than it was in vBrawl, although the timing is ******** strict. I'll give you guys feedback, with the more I come across.

And thanks Juu. ;p

 

[vectorace]

Yeah, I did that. :V Speed of arrows is B- and controlability is exactly half way between vBrawl and Brawl-. No one really seems to play pit in the pmbr, so I haven't really gotten any feedback on it. :/

i don't main pit but i have played him yesterday in fact and some of the ideas that were implemented thus far work very well for him...

his arrows are very easy to loop now as well i can miss 2x and still hit someone xD

 

[Archangel]

Does Pit really need Arrow cancels? =/
I think his Side B should be made into something that's actually used <_>
I dun liek the halo.

and the HIYAYAYAZZZ is the most stupid thing ever.

I mean give his Arrow more charge and Make it like Samus's Neut.B but just not nearly as much damage. However It's faster to Turn around and Cancel Arrow>Bair then it is to Turn around> Shoot arrow, then Bair especially considering that you can be smacked in the back by someone like sheik or marth while doing it.

I think he need a whole new Side B for sure. I think he could use some kind of Quick dash sideB but not exactly something like Fox's or Ike's. As for his DownB Maybe it could come out faster and go away faster if you jumped out of it. Like a Shine except not used for combos....or maybe it could be used for combos idk. Does it have knockback or something now?

Maybe get some ideas from this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7detDcmMKY


I will say this much about pit though. No matter what I see him as a Solid teams partner in the end. Imagine the hype when someone loops an arrow backwards under the stage for a partner save or something like that. It would be crazy.

As for Pit's Wings I was wondering did anyone go through with making his UpB useful as an attack? Meaning the first few frames will hit similar to how DK'd UpB works? If not then that would be useful to try out as well.

 

[curry9186]

Regarding Pit's upB, what if it were made something like Charizard's? Say pit shoots himself up some distance and then just descends after that.

 

[jalued]

Regarding Pit's upB, what if it were made something like Charizard's? Say pit shoots himself up some distance and then just descends after that.

I think it should ascend from between 10 degrees to 80 rapidly (At about wolf's upB speed but with less startup), using his glide animation but with blue wings, then if jump is held, enters the glide animation.

The initial boost should be JC'able (not sure which frames, prob later ones) so that it can be used for wavelanding and other tricksies

 

[Be@st]

Regarding Pit's upB, what if it were made something like Charizard's? Say pit shoots himself up some distance and then just descends after that.

I think it's best as it is. Pit's moveset symbolizes freeform, and his recovery move should represent that. Charizard's UpB is good, damage-wise, but terrible recovery wise, since I've seen so many people SD or outright fail to recover due to it's terrible trajectory and his obese model. I'll input more, later.

EDIT: Oops. My brother's account logged back in... It's Sovereign, though.

 

[Sora-kun]

It works with a lot of specials. It worked with all of ROB's specials in Brawl and there were some pretty neat ATs you could do with it.

I mean, I guess that still applies now with P:M but I haven't really fooled around with it much. It was easier in Brawl because the game moved a lot slower and there was a lot less going on at any given moment. Playing P:M is like superfast information overload by comparison and I never really think about wavebouncing.

I definitely don't think it should be removed. More nonbroken technical options = good.

Hmm i didn't know that @_@
-is enlightened- thnx.

Regarding Pit's upB, what if it were made something like Charizard's? Say pit shoots himself up some distance and then just descends after that.

i swear someone suggested something similar charizard's upB for pit before @_@
if this happened he'd lose his wing ATs though wouldn't he?

 

[FireBall Stars]

Probably charged spin attacks would work if it was even more powerful than normal spin attack of have greater range or the two at the same time.

Like the Great Spin in Twilight Princess and the Hurricane Spin in Wind Waker.

Maybe if it was able to charge a little in air it would make Spin Attack a better recovery move, not for going farther but exactly by boosting its power and range.

The idea for Ike is great, but it needs to have bigger range, the way Ike swings ragnell is extremely stupid way in Brawl Dsmash.

His Final Smash setup attack isn't that broken, it's just the hitbox from the shockwave he makes tha is big. If you take just his sword as hitbox it wouldn't be that good since it's would have some ending lag.

Would it be a good idea to make Ike's counter reflect projectiles?

 

[Revven]

Would it be a good idea to make Ike's counter reflect projectiles?

No.

10nos.

 

[FireBall Stars]

Okay then haha

Any chance currently that any other attack of him will have a changed animation?

 

[OverLade]

I'm trying to get your secret student into P:M, Red. He said if they fixed Ike's Dsmash, he'd totally be down for playing the game. Also, Ike's Dsmash looks like your supposed to be pressing the attack button twice for it to come out, characters the swing like Link and Marth, not so much, since they seem to swing their swords more fluently, on their Dsmashes.
[/B][/COLOR]

Do ittttttt he will fall in love with PM Ike.

 

[Plum]

I think its more that in melee all current momentum is conserved slightly, even marth's sideB stall.

In brawl vanilla however there isnt even a ground to air momentum code (nintendo ftw :/ ) so it meant that techniques like this were effective. But it doesnt suit a melee style game and looks as someone said earlyer: very brawlish

I can guarantee that EVERY single person saying that B reversals look "Brawl" would never think that if they were in Melee as they were implemented in Brawl.
Let's imagine that Melee had momentum shifts with B reversals and Brawl didn't. Everybody would be in here saying that we need to bring them back.

But because Brawl actually added something useful to the game that Melee didn't have we get the opposite. It's a non character specific AT that adds a lot more control over your character's movement. It adds further precision to the usage of specials, and adds a lot of potential for baiting purposes, mindgames, options for punishing and etc.

Don't knock the AT until you actually play with it.

 

[Stevo]

.....still looks ugly

but I'll hold my judgment.

 

[Juushichi]

I can guarantee that EVERY single person saying that B reversals look "Brawl" would never think that if they were in Melee as they were implemented in Brawl.
Let's imagine that Melee had momentum shifts with B reversals and Brawl didn't. Everybody would be in here saying that we need to bring them back.

But because Brawl actually added something useful to the game that Melee didn't have we get the opposite. It's a non character specific AT that adds a lot more control over your character's movement. It adds further precision to the usage of specials, and adds a lot of potential for baiting purposes, mindgames, options for punishing and etc.

Don't knock the AT until you actually play with it.

Said much better that I was going to.

Someone said a bit back that the ability to B-reversal (or wavebounce) might make high tier characters better. If other new streamline techs make a high-tier character better, it just further demonstrates how good that character is. It's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Sovereign]

The idea for Ike is great, but it needs to have bigger range, the way Ike swings ragnell is extremely stupid way in Brawl Dsmash.

His Final Smash setup attack isn't that broken, it's just the hitbox from the shockwave he makes tha is big. If you take just his sword as hitbox it wouldn't be that good since it's would have some ending lag.

If he had more range it would then be broken, imo. Ike doesn't need anymore range than what he already has. He's extremely solid in P:M, but I feel that his Dsmash needs to be tampered with. You also gave me an idea, concerning Ike's Utilt.

The first initial hit for Ike's Final Smash, do you guys think that would look all right as an Utilt?

Do ittttttt he will fall in love with PM Ike.

He's played it with me, and said if it became really popular(which I think it will) he'll play it. He said he'd main Marth, if Ike's not tweaked a bit(Dsmash).

 

[Stevo]

I actually like Ike's uptilt. What is your guys' reasoning behind changing it?
(too slow for meree?)