Project M Social Thread

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

Ohmygod they 1) Look cool, 2) Serve as a nice way to show people that L canceling exists, and 3) Are utterly insignificant in their duration, get over it.

1) no they don't
2) people already know they exist and should be able to hit them, plus you can already tell from animation
3) of course they are, they just look stupid
keep the flash if you must, but tone it down is all i'm saying

 

[Krautrock]

I like the flash.

 

[humble]

figure out how to fix them and I gladly will

This is probably stupid, but isn't the problem that airdodges can be interrupted by Zairs? If that's the case, wouldn't that imply that in the airdodge page of characters with Zairs, they'll be a IASA for Zair there? Or is it hard coded?

You could remove shield grab, since we have jump cancelled grabs now anyway, and just make it so R+A doesn't register as a grab input, or in the air a zair input. Though I don't think people would be happy with losing shield grab...

Or in the airdodge page, put a line to disable using grab/zairs?

Make the start of Zairs momentum cancels, or reduce the momentum, so that even if you airdodge into it, you don't get that ridiculous speed and distance?

(Obviously it isn't that simple, or shanus would've easily figured it out...)

--
Maybe just leave them in the game, since all the characters with Zairs happen to also not be very good, and could use the option? If you increase Zair landing lag, and decrease the damage and hitstun from them, you could make them less useful for attacking so they don't overcentralize the characters play.

Really I'm divided on the issue of Zairs in P:M. On the one hand, it's a cool tech that gives speed, a solid approach, and more options to characters in desperate need of that. On the other hand, it's potentially overcentralizing because it might be the best option the character has- look at vBrawl Samus, it was zairs all day with her too, and now with AGT Zairs I'm worried it could negatively effect the playstyles of the Zair characters and instead make them spammy and boring characters. I think if it could be kept for all the positive reasons of speed, options, and depth, while preventing it from being effective if used consecutively, perhaps by making it fairly inconsequential on hit.

posting for epicness... me and redhalberd double snake at pound 5!

Snake dittos in PM will actually be really interesting, especially since Snake happens to be vulnerable to his own strategies. Please record your matches Sneak, so we get more sexy PM snake videos.

TBH I'm really confused as to why that video was made public. I SD'd twice, and it's not even using the current build of MK...we've had 2 updates since then. I don't mind so if they put it up without asking me that's all good but I have a feeling it may just be a mistake... Anyways hope you enjoy if anything. We're working hard to remove the gimmicks but keep what makes the character fast and fun to play as.

The video was obviously an accident since it has now been removed, and when it is of an old build featuring poor play with a character that isn't meant to be seen yet, it shouldn't have been up even temporarily.

I get the feeling no matter what Pit will be epic in teams. Partner saves via arrows!?!? WHAT!!!???

Pit's projectile just lends itself to teams, and I think even in P:M that won't change. A controllable fast moving projectile is practically the ideal weapon for teams. Interrupt opponent, manipulate it around your teammate to hit the opponent, aim and save your teammate while recovering, it's properties would have to be changed quite a bit before it gives up it's throne of the best teams projectile.

that was some real nice tech skill but it looked so awkward, especially the zairs and the flashes for l-cancels

Zair AGTs provide essentially a fast movement option in the air, coupled with an attack with great range. It is a byproduct of MAD, and right now it cannot be removed without side effects.

When L-canceling, the white flash is helpful without being obnoxious, and it helps provide an instant way to recognize a successful L cancel. If you don't enjoy the way it looks, at least acknowledge that it does help some people and can be beneficial to play without detracting anything- its a graphic effect, if you want, you can remove it easily for your personal use. The overall feedback regarding it has been positive, and it will help people to L cancel- think of it as a showcase of technical skill each time you L cancel. People can easier recognize that you are consistently L canceling- if it is bothersome to to many people, the flash can be shortened and dimmed.

 

[Sterowent]

i'm pretty sure they don't want to remove zair AGT, humble; the huge distance it covers is the problem.

 

[shanus]

Yeah lol, removing zair from an air dodge would be uhhh... not good.

Adding a momentum stall resulted in them being unable to grab the edge

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

nah we're keeping the flash

 

[[TSON]]

if you remove zair from airdodge zairs probably wouldnt even work anymore.

 

[.Fade]

Yeah lol, removing zair from an air dodge would be uhhh... not good.

Adding a momentum stall resulted in them being unable to grab the edge

Any explainable reason a momentum code would negate ledge-grabbing? Coding-wise, I mean.

 

[shanus]

Any explainable reason a momentum code would negate ledge-grabbing? Coding-wise, I mean.

Not exactly sure, I also had negated gravity at the time as well, so that could be a contributing factor.

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

nah we're keeping the flash

will it be toned down at all or will it stay as is?
i never said to remove it anyway

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Um....why would they EVER remove shield grab? I mean...just no. That's a terrible idea. and I'm too lazy to say why, it just is. (fail argument)

I like the zairs. It there a way to give them more landing lag? or just lag in general? I think that would help.


EDIT: Also, I noticed that the flowers on Dreamland 64 aren't quite right. Oh well, I'm sure that' just nitpicking and it'll be fixed. The stage pack for P:M will be AWESOME!!!1

 

[.Fade]

Not exactly sure, I also had negated gravity at the time as well, so that could be a contributing factor.

Huh. Maybe I'll try testing it. =3

Any specific PSA coding you used? I figure I can emulate the moving airdodge with a momentum code.

 

[OverLade]

The L cancel flash is a great addition that helps noobs and Brawl players who want to get into melee but doesn't hurt melee players. I don't even notice it when I play...

 

[ruhtraeel]

Yeah Z-airs look pretty OP right now... the distance and the frames it takes to come out. Spacing FTR (for the ****)

 

[o-Serin-o]

LOL nobody's gonna use Brawl characters after this game finishes.

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

LOL nobody's gonna use Brawl characters after this game finishes.

If it plays exactly like melee(the top tiers at least) then i would definitely agree, save for goofing around

 

[.Fade]

LOL nobody's gonna use Brawl characters after this game finishes.

Haha, I disagree. Brawl characters with Melee physics? That's the new experience this project promises. Sonic, Wolf, and Ivy are the ones I'm really looking forward to, Fox and Falcon are old news to me :D

 

[shanus]

Huh. Maybe I'll try testing it. =3

Any specific PSA coding you used? I figure I can emulate the moving airdodge with a momentum code.

0E080400 to kill all momentum
0E060100 to set gravity to 0
Waited around 15 frames or so
Reenabled gravity with 0E070100

 

[FireBall Stars]

I like the flashing

I liked the Zairs

I also liked more Sneak's Snake than Redhalberd's Snake. :X

And I'm pretty sure that I'll be maining Sonic over Mario and Ike.

 

[Plum]

Your double Snake vs Plum and I double G&W MM?

I should have no problems taking off for work this far in advance
Now to start saving up my crappy part time wages for a trip...

 

[GwJ]

Speaking of all the MK talk, I played as him at Apex at the PM TVs. He's definitely not ready yet. Other than the Up-B, his moves all have minor adjustments from what I noticed.

 

[Plum]

I also liked more Sneak's Snake than Redhalberd's Snake. :X

Sneak does some flashier things which makes him more entertaining to watch, but Red Halberd has some **** good reads.
Dthrow > Dthrow > Ftilt > Dthrow kind of things aren't as visually exciting, but I'm still very impressed with Red Halberd. And he did have some nice stuff like C4 sticky, Uthrow > detonate for the kill. And that second hit of Ftilt > Dsmash mine across the stage was hot

 

[JCaesar]

I should have no problems taking off for work this far in advance
Now to start saving up my crappy part time wages for a trip...

Awesome! We need to finally meet. And team.

 

[Krautrock]

If it plays exactly like melee(the top tiers at least) then i would definitely agree, save for goofing around

What are you talking about? I can't speak for you obviously, but of course people are going to use Brawl characters. Why would anyone even bother playing this if that was the case? Just for balance? Hah. Melee players are perfectly content with that game's ****ty balance. The introduction of new (and viable) characters is a major part of this project's appeal. It promises an entirely new metagame (*gasp*).

laffs

 

[MDU]

I really want Metaknight to be awesome. I think he should keep all the brawl physics so he can be just as likable in P:M like he is in Brawl.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I really want Metaknight to be awesome. I think he should keep all the brawl physics so he can be just as likable in P:M like he is in Brawl.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


oh thats a good one...

 

[Strong Badam]

Um....why would they EVER remove shield grab? I mean...just no. That's a terrible idea. and I'm too lazy to say why, it just is. (fail argument)

when did anyone mention anything about removing shield grab?

I like the zairs. It there a way to give them more landing lag? or just lag in general? I think that would help.

yes. the problem though is the abnormal amount of distance traveled during it.

EDIT: Also, I noticed that the flowers on Dreamland 64 aren't quite right. Oh well, I'm sure that' just nitpicking and it'll be fixed. The stage pack for P:M will be AWESOME!!!1

there won't be a stage pack. all of the stages will be included with project m.

 

[FireBall Stars]

Sneak does some flashier things which makes him more entertaining to watch, but Red Halberd has some **** good reads.
Dthrow > Dthrow > Ftilt > Dthrow kind of things aren't as visually exciting, but I'm still very impressed with Red Halberd. And he did have some nice stuff like C4 sticky, Uthrow > detonate for the kill. And that second hit of Ftilt > Dsmash mine across the stage was hot

Yes! Sneak does things more flashy. Those RedHalberd reads that you said are somewhat familiar for me in Brawl+, so I guess it's because of that, newer thing grabs more attention.

Looking forward for more Snake videos from both players.

 

[kaizo13]

so what's the news on Snake's side B?....any new ideas?

 

[humble]

Um....why would they EVER remove shield grab? I mean...just no. That's a terrible idea. and I'm too lazy to say why, it just is. (fail argument)

I like the zairs. It there a way to give them more landing lag? or just lag in general? I think that would help.


EDIT: Also, I noticed that the flowers on Dreamland 64 aren't quite right. Oh well, I'm sure that' just nitpicking and it'll be fixed. The stage pack for P:M will be AWESOME!!!1

I know, I was just throwing out random ideas on how to remove the AGT Zair glitch. I don't want to remove the Zairs, but I do want to keep the characters with them deep, and a single mechanic that surpasses all others to the point of being overcentralizing is unappealing and I would like to try and prevent that.

Speaking of all the MK talk, I played as him at Apex at the PM TVs. He's definitely not ready yet. Other than the Up-B, his moves all have minor adjustments from what I noticed.

From watching the videos, MK looks like his general playstyle is shaping up nicely, and he just needs some changes to accentuate that.

 

[.Fade]

0E080400 to kill all momentum
0E060100 to set gravity to 0
Waited around 15 frames or so
Reenabled gravity with 0E070100

Lol it works for me =3
went a slightly different direction, Zair has no altering momentum when pressing z, but momentum cancels after an airdodge. Grabs ledges out of adzair. It's sloppy, but can be cleaned up if I spend more than 10 minute on it =P am I missing anything important?

I'll post the PAC hopefully soon, once I get my comp back. =]

 

[shanus]

Lol it works for me =3
went a slightly different direction, Zair has no altering momentum when pressing z, but momentum cancels after an airdodge. Grabs ledges out of adzair. It's sloppy, but can be cleaned up if I spend more than 10 minute on it =P am I missing anything important?

I'll post the PAC hopefully soon, once I get my comp back. =]

i had only tested one iteration of it, but i also executed mine from fighter.pac which will run earlier than your code, i could prolly just install into the subactions instead

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

What are you talking about? I can't speak for you obviously, but of course people are going to use Brawl characters. Why would anyone even bother playing this if that was the case? Just for balance? Hah. Melee players are perfectly content with that game's ****ty balance. The introduction of new (and viable) characters is a major part of this project's appeal. It promises an entirely new metagame (*gasp*).

laffs

wow ok ******* i said people would use them for fun but if it's played competitively at a side tourney, why the hell should a melee player switch from the character they've been using for years to a brand new one? what's with the ****ty balance in melee argument? of course it's not well balanced but brawls balance is a lot worse.

 

[Deleted member]

The zairs are indeed overpowered, but not in balance phase at the moment so who cares.

But something interesting is AGT Zair momentum to grab off a successful Zair hit. Works for Tink and Link. Might work for Lucas or Samus, but I have no idea.

It's a pretty interesting and fun mechanic.

Edit: It doesn't work on shields though. The lag frames to grab start up frames aren't safe.

 

[.Fade]

wow ok ******* i said people would use them for fun but if it's played competitively at a side tourney, why the hell should a melee player switch from the character they've been using for years to a brand new one? what's with the ****ty balance in melee argument? of course it's not well balanced but brawls balance is a lot worse.

Maybe they practiced with a new character. Like, at home. Cuz it's fun. :3

 

[Krautrock]

Obviously Brawl's balance is worse. I don't disagree with that, but it's also not at all relevant. I was simply pointing out that if not for new characters there is little reason to play this over Melee, and most Melee players probably don't care much about the additional balancing that is going to happen.

I personally main Sheik in Melee, but I would definitely look into trying a new character in Project M. I don't think that's at all unreasonable.

Either way this is a pretty pointless discussion. I don't know why I'm even bothering replying.

 

[Plum]

Saying that no people will use Brawl characters is making the assumption that only Melee players will touch the game, and all 100% of those Melee players will refuse to use a different character than the one they use in Melee.

Too bad there are plenty of Melee players who also play Brawl, and plenty of Brawl players who will be playing PM once it is available. Those are the people who will use Brawl characters, because they already know that character well and will be able to adapt to changes quickly. Just look at Sneak and Red Halberd as prime examples.

Oh and let's also ignore that some people enjoy low tier characters because the playstyle fits them more than top tier characters. So even if the game lacked balance there would still be plenty of people playing Brawl characters because they enjoy the character and don't care that they are bad. Why else would Taj play Mewtwo, or Axe play Pikachu, or Bum play DK, etc.

 

[Strong Badam]

mentioning that brawl's balance is worse than melee's is fairly pointless, as this isn't brawl. this is project m.

 

[.Fade]

@shanus: Yeah, I'd say subactions is the way to go.

Samus Zair DL Link:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?lwkxgc1t4gyy12f

The momentum in the airdodge emulates a Melee airdodge, albeit exaggerated. Pressing Z during the airdodge will result in a momentum-canceling zair, ala Melee.

Pressing Z without airdodging results in no change to momentum.

Yes, it's sloppy, and a couple of codes are completely unneccesary. Yes, I understand the problems with using an LA-Float, and that can be fixed with more time.

This should be tested in vBrawl [w/ File Patch 3.5.1 of course], as that's all I have =3 If any PM playtesters want to use it, I recommend removing the momentum code in subaction 46 Main.

The coding is done in subaction 46 [Main and Other], EA [Other] and EB [Other].

Tell me if it works. It works for me =]

 

[Dingding123]

The zair tricksies are cute, but...I wanna see some landing lag. If samus and link's grabs have lag, their zairs should too. Not a ridiculous amount of it, but enough to where it isn't always a ridiculously good approaching option.