BS. People actually pay attention to crap like that? Backwards edge grabbing should stay. Period. There's no good or logical reason to take it away in the first place. It should've always been there. >_>
If you keep backwards ledge grabbing, then you remove the skill of being able to do a quick edge hog alla wavedash backwards and you make edge hogging really easy even when you are out of position to do so. In melee, you had to plan ahead and good players were able to move in such a way that allowed them to have a ton of options despite the "limitations" of the game's rules. When I mean limitations, I mean the things that Brawl just throws away leaving the gameplay sloppy. Sometimes restrictions make things a hell of a lot better and melee is certain no exception
Kupo -- I think you're basing too much off of trying to make the melee cape work. And you know what? Against good players it didn't even work that well.
Before you say anything, go watch SilentSpectre play against Waffles. If he recoveries high getting caped is completely ineffective... so much so that it's almost always better to try for a bair. When recovering low, SS would purposefully recover backwards and sweetspot, and you know what? Even if HMW caped him he would still grab the ledge. Granted, the Jeff recovery will **** you up and can't be representative of everyone, but he manages to avoid dying at least 70% of the time he gets caped.
Trust me, I know all the recent matches because I follow them and I play melee these days...but thanks for using an
exception to try and prove your point. But still, I can disprove a lot of your points anyway
Caping high is pointless
This isn't exactly true. By caping high and turning them around when near the ledge, you effectively
remove the ledge as a recovery option. This means that they are forced to land on the stage to avoid death which sets up for more punishment. If you have reverse grabbing in place, this no longer works anymore (or at least as effectively as in melee) because you still have the option to grab the ledge.
Caping at high levels of play is more ineffective than effective
No it isn't. It is a tool that can be used to limit options. Against all characters, you're standard option of recovery is being taken away. Space animals are forced to up b straight up to avoid being *****. But you can't
just consider pros with this. You are also making it easier for noobs to survive the cape because they would be able to grab the ledge anyway. It definitely has its place but it won't if you can grab the ledge backwards.
Caption falcon still grabs the ledge
Despite the fact that falcon can grab the ledge backwards, if caped while doing a normal up b, he will not grab the ledge backwards and will get gimped. If falcon uses a reverse recovery, it will take more time to get in position and it will restrict his aerial mobility will make it a little easier to edge hog. A simple wavedash on the ledge will put a reverse recovering falcon in a bad position or you can just simply charge a smash. So, no the cape is not pointless.
Falcon's example applies to all
Absolutely false. You didn't say this but implied it through your choice of examples. Take the characters that
can't grab backwards in melee no matter what. The cape ***** their normal recovery if you manage to land it. If they try to pull a reverse up b on you, well by
not caping, they effectively screwed themselves. For those who think its unfair that some can grab the ledge backwards, I disagree because while falcon can reverse grab, his recovery in comparison is actually quite ****ty to those that can't.
I would also like to add that the possibility of adding the cape off stage as part of a combo would be much more effective in melee than in P:M where you have reverse ledges. If you take the doc falcon example again, lets say that doc decides to do a Bair>cape combo off stage. Despite the fact that falcon may still have another jump (or not) in melee he would be a huge disadvantage because he would be forced to up b in order to grab the ledge as a recovery option. In P:M, that cape would be useless because falcon can still double jump and grab the ledge. Theorycrafting? Maybe....but the point of this paragraph was to prove that the direction you face should be very important because in melee...it
is. Its a limitation that is actually exciting and by removing it would definitely not make it feel like melee at all.
Then there's the recent Brawl+ GSH cape. By adding a bit more KB to the cape it functions perfectly well in this backwards grabbing environment, and when you factor in the reduction in grab range on top of that it'll work even better.
I do realize that one could just increase KG to the cape and pits shield, but that only is a band aid that "fixes" that particular problem when reverse grabbing effects more than just 3 moves.
The point is, I agree that it may be necessary eventually to change backwards grabbing, but I don't think we should have our minds so set already or base so much of our argument off a single move type. Let's try backwards grabbing with shrunk range first.
Whatever but be warned
Backwards edge grabbing allows for more creative edge guards with every character, not just for characters like Marth (bair, forward B), Sheik (reverse needle cancel), Jiggs (jump, forward B), Fox/Falco (forward B, reverse shine), etc. who can turn in the air whenever they want. Reverse edge grabs will help in balancing Project M.
Idk about you, by to me, finding ways to get around the rules of the game was most exciting. Exploiting the DK charge punch so you can change directions is being amazingly creative which adds technique and challenge. You lose the sense of creativity when you completely remove all the restrictions this being one of them. The other is RAR which I won't get into.
