Project M Social Thread

[5ive]

I know a lot about Brawl/Brawl+ Pika. I'll PM Axe/Anther to see if they can try to help us out.

 

[Team Giza]

I'm in love.

Is there any plans to change some of the brawl-exclusive characters movesets to make them feel more like the belong in a melee environment?

 

[Shell]

Knowledge about one or the other is only so helpful... it's the changes from one to the other that are important -- having one person that knows a lot about Melee and one that knows a lot about B+ isn't as helpful in this instance as someone who knows a medium amount about both.

Let me know if you can do this in the next few days, otherwise I will just tinker with Pikachu+'s moves until I get a solid feel for what's changed.

@Gizka... of course! The real question is.. what makes someone "melee?" Here are my guesses, feel free to make suggestions:

1) Moves that flow together to promote a general combo game
2) Interesting tech-chasing options
3) Fallspeed, (duh)
4) Technical ATs

The first ones are easy, but creating new, technical ATs from scratch that aren't too arbitrary or OP can be challenging.

 

[cubaisdeath]

I can't wait to see MK personally

 

[5ive]

Knowledge about one or the other is only so helpful... it's the changes from one to the other that are important -- having one person that knows a lot about Melee and one that knows a lot about B+ isn't as helpful in this instance as someone who knows a medium amount about both.

Let me know if you can do this in the next few days, otherwise I will just tinker with Pikachu+'s moves until I get a solid feel for what's changed.

@Gizka... of course!

Well from the Project M set I have, everything feels really similar to Pika+. It seems as though I can use the metagame developed from Brawl+ straight into Project M.

If anything, I'm knowledgeable in the metagame differences between Pika+ and Melee Pikachu.

In my opinion, I would like to see a mix of Brawl+/Melee in PikaM.

 

[Team Giza]

@Gizka... of course! The real question is.. what makes someone "melee?" Here are my guesses, feel free to make suggestions:

1) Moves that flow together to promote a general combo game
2) Interesting tech-chasing options
4) Technical ATs

These are the most important. But mainly 1 and 2. However I don't know if general combo game is what is needed for some characters. I feel that what made melee good was that you got a sense of offensive momentum. A lot of this game from the 1 and 2 but there are other ways to accomplish this. I'll post up some characters idea I have a bit later on.

I'm loving the video but I don't think that some of the knockback in the game is working quite as much like melee as I would have hoped. But this is pre-alpha so I suppose that is to be expected. Looks amazing. The trailer was very well designed.

edit: whoops nevermind, wasn't watching the video closely enough.

 

[Shell]

Ah good, it seems there was a misunderstanding earlier, then. Right now P:M pika more or less is Pika+ with modified physics.

I just would like a list in the difference between moves for Brawl+ and Melee, and how those differences affect his overall metagame. For example, the addition of QAC is huge, I believe he has an abundance of new kill set ups in Brawl+ over Melee etc. etc.

If you could just PM something like that to me that would be lovely. Then I'll work on tweaking some things in the next week or so and let you try it out.

 

[ValTroX]

From what I remember:
1)Brawl's thunder was way faster than Melee's. Pikachu can almost instantly attack/move after getting struck by the thunder, he had cooldown on melee.
2)Uair spiked if you hit with the right spot(Melee)
3)DSmash is similar to B+ in melee
4)Bair was not a multi hit attack(Not really sure but I can check it out if necessary)
5)Nair had more killing power in Melee
EDIT: Also FSmas/USmash were really powerful at Melee

 

[The_Guide]

Has anything been planned for D3? I'd love to hear how he operates in this game.

Speaking of the King, I'd love it if you guys could give his jet hammer some sort of momentum boosting AT. Like the glitch, but possible to perform consistently.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

uair has four different hitbox. two of which spike.

 

[Shadic]

hey shanus, if you look at this link, it might help a TON
http://www.bigprojects.net/sean/ssbmhitbox/ssbmhitbox.html

Holy crap that's amazing. It's a shame it's not complete.

or since this is supposed to be more like melee, how about his MELEE fair and dash attack? lol

His Melee Fair is meh. His Dash Attack is horrible. You get punished for hitting until relatively high percents, and at that point, you can't combo out of it.

Also, regarding Link: His Bair needs to be like his Melee one. Here's an example: Clicky. (Pretty sure it's the right video, but wouldn't load for me. )
Anyways, his Bair is amazingly super fancy in Melee. Need that back.

 

[cubaisdeath]

Well from the Project M set I have, everything feels really similar to Pika+. It seems as though I can use the metagame developed from Brawl+ straight into Project M.

If anything, I'm knowledgeable in the metagame differences between Pika+ and Melee Pikachu.

In my opinion, I would like to see a mix of Brawl+/Melee in PikaM.

isn't that the general idea? I think that its good to have both metagames implemented at the same time. it creates a genuinely fresh experience.

I think the main change that needs to be implemented, is the nair in general. it was a great link in melee, you could do a lot of cool stuff with it, more than you can in vbrawl/b+

EDIT:

His Melee Fair is meh. His Dash Attack is horrible. You get punished for hitting until relatively high percents, and at that point, you can't combo out of it.

whaaat? his melee fair was great, not as good as the 64 one sure, but it does its purpose. his dash attack can combo into a lot of stuff, trust me. it IS weak until like 50-70%, but you shouldn't be dash attacking much in the first place.

 

[ETWIST51294]

The uair was a semi spike from the tip of the tail. You could also do it backwards but I don't remember how. Axe knows.

 

[Team Giza]

Wait, does Wolf's shine cancel on landing ala SSB64 Fox? If so, I love you all.

 

[ValTroX]

Yes Giza, Shanus stated that one page back

 

[Revven]

Yes Giza it does.

edit: ninja'd. D:

 

[DarkDragoon]

Has anything been planned for D3? I'd love to hear how he operates in this game.

Speaking of the King, I'd love it if you guys could give his jet hammer some sort of momentum boosting AT. Like the glitch, but possible to perform consistently.

Well we would like to start by having DDD able to airdodge without breaking the game.

From there who knows.

Wait, does Wolf's shine cancel on landing ala SSB64 Fox? If so, I love you all.

Yes, you are correct.

And I gave wold a lot of interesting changes that really emphasize techchase from air->ground->air and stuff.

Hes an active character.

-DD

 

[TL?]

I would like to see Reverse aerial rush(RAR) and grabbing ledges from both side stay in Project:M. Here's some pika info for ya:

Most useful parts of Melee Pika:
Super strong Usmash
Uair tail spikes
Nair
disjointed and long lasting side tilt
uthrow or dthrow to usmash combo

Brawl/Brawl+ Pika
Falling fair combos into lots o stuff
thunder is less punishable
fthrow and dthrow are most useful
bair is multihit
Quick attack canceling

 

[DtJ Jungle]

N64: uair has 4 hitboxes
N64: each covers a different area and comes out at a different time in the aerial
N64: 1st hitbox, behind pika
N64: this is usually used for rising uairs etc.
N64: it pops them straight up
N64: 2nd hitbox, slightly behind and above pika
N64: this reverse spikes
N64: 3rd hitbox, above and slightly in front of pika
N64: this spikes
N64: 4th hitbox, in front of pika
N64: this hits them slightly up and behind you and it usually useless outside of forcing spacies to tech



N64 explaining to me how pika's upair works.

 

[Shell]

Yeah, I've seen that... however, I'm not really sure what the distribution of frames is for each KB.

That is, I'm pretty sure there are 6 frames for 4 different KBs, meaning some get two frames, some get one.

I was going to try and figure this out using AR in melee, but if someone already knows that would save me some time.

 

[xDD-Master]

A funny idea about Snake:

You know how he can cancel Nade-Holding-Animation by Grab / Shield. It would be somewhat cool if he could end this with everything, like an air-dodge in the air and so picking up the nade, sounds cool, would may be overpowered idk :S

Just a random idea I got when sawing Air Glide Tossing xD

 

[cubaisdeath]

I would like to see Reverse aerial rush(RAR)

every smash game has RAR. I'm guessing you want to see the Brawl version the most, since it was the only one that let you keep momentum.

which brings me to question, can you RAR JC grab? it would be like a cheater pivot grab lol

 

[Team Giza]

Yes Giza, Shanus stated that one page back

Wrecked. I missed that somehow. Now I feel bad.

If I can find my gamecube stuff I will see what I can do on action replay.

which brings me to question, can you RAR JC grab? it would be like a cheater pivot grab lol

If you can RAR JC pivot grab it would be more amazing!

 

[ETWIST51294]

What is RAR? I must not be to useful in melee >.>

 

[Rudra]

Reverse Aerial Rush: Allows you to turn around while jumping from a dash, very useful for characters with good bairs...plus you keep your momentum from the dash

 

[cubaisdeath]

What is RAR? I must not be to useful in melee >.>

its terrible in melee. it stops your momentum completely. its best in brawl, and semi useful in 64 if your character has low traction (fox, jiggs, etc).

 

[Shell]

XD master: Snake's ground game is ridiculous right now with the addition of a wave dash. Really, I'm not sure what to do with him...

Right now he's Snake+ with more gravity.. which is to say that his overall metagame is still very similar to Brawl's zone with projectiles until kill with a tilt / bair/ uair. Not necessarily very "melee" but maybe that's not a problem, I dunno.

I'm sure MuBa will have plenty of ideas.

 

[Wind Owl]

I think trying to "Melee-ify" Snake would be a big mistake. Even if his game is to camp and then kill when they get to the right percentage, he now has to deal with other characters catching up to him and (I assume) fastfaller comboing him. I really don't think a campy character would ruin the game, especially if he's mid-tier.

 

[Lovage]

why don't you guys just play ssbm

 

[shanus]

Wait, does Wolf's shine cancel on landing ala SSB64 Fox? If so, I love you all.

yep, it does

 

[ETWIST51294]

There was campy characters in melee too. Samus, Ylink, Link, and Peach to a certain extent. I don't see why we can't have another one.

 

[5ive]

why don't you guys just play ssbm

A good question. It's a fun project for us, as we love to code things. Also, it's not like Melee was absolutely perfect in terms of balance, so we're polishing that up and adding some fresh new tactics.

The fact that it includes Brawl characters and makes many Brawl players closer to home (hyphen smashing, dacus etc) makes this worthwhile for many.

You're missing out on one big factor. People who play in areas where there are literally no melee players but themselves. What do they depend on? Guess what? There's wifi hard coded into Brawl.

I play melee but I'd love playing melee with a bit of twist with something refreshing as well.

10charsssssssssssssss

 

[HoN3Y64]

why don't you guys just play ssbm

cause king dedede.

 

[.Fade]

why don't you guys just play ssbm

Some of us still do, like me. One reason to play this is a bigger roster, I guess. Why do people assume we can't play both? =P

 

[TL?]

why don't you guys just play ssbm

Melee is awesome but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy other games too.

 

[mercy]

That trailer is sexy, I want to play NAO.

 

[Zook]

why don't you guys just play ssbm

More characters, better graphics.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Graphics don't mean sh*t.

I do want to play with more characters tho.

 

[superyoshi888]

More characters, better graphics.

Debatable. Depends if you use Brawl's standard textures or not. Sure, they're more detailed than Melee's, but they are way too desaturated for a Nintendo game. Plus, Melee Falco's sexy Red Jacket.

 

[Lucarioiloveit]

great, this project is awesome