Project M Social Thread

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS' recovery will be fine, except down-b which they already have plans for.

I'm not really worried about ZSS in Project: M. It's been shown that just adding hitstun makes her naturally good.

stingers, I would compare her playstyle more to Captain Falcon than Sheik, although they are both similar to her playstyle.

 

[stingers]

lol what...zss cant approach with sh aerials...nor can she dd camp she is too slow...and her grab game is unsafe as ****...how in the world did you come to that conclusion

 

[kaizo13]

...wait...you guys finally decided to resize models?!....tell me it's true!

 

[Wind Owl]

We've made a lot of progress on ZSS this week, in light of the character PAC injections. Expect videos within a couple weeks, but until then, try to hold off on discussing her as she'll probably play differently than you expect (but not drastically).

...wait...you guys finally decided to resize models?!....tell me it's true!

Yes. Models right now are 94% the size of their vBrawl counterparts, and the only thing that needs to be done is specific size adjustments relative to Mario.

 

[o-Serin-o]

You guys need to just work until it is 100% complete.

I'm tired of games like B- and B+ getting changed right after I get used the the current addition of it.

I've yet to update B- because of it <_<

 

[Revven]

And we are o-Serin-o, that's why it's closed alpha lol. The people talking in here either don't have the game, have played once or twice before, or are one of the devs (like me) who have it.

 

[GP&B]

Yeah, I believe they're planning to release an open beta when it feels very much like a completed game meaning all characters are finalized and the physics feel perfect. By that point, balance will start coming into the picture as a primary goal and even then, updates will occur very infrequently.

 

[stingers]

Why do you guys want to release an open beta again

Like what's your goal there

 

[Wind Owl]

So that people can playtest and submit bugs... What's any open beta for?

 

[GP&B]

Not a dev (obviously), but I can understand your skepticism of an open beta. However, I'm pretty sure they want to make it open when it met the conditions I described. That way, nothing feels incomplete and feedback should more or less stay on the topic of balance (which will probably be taken into consideration more from top level players rather than this thread).

And the point of releasing is so that tons of others can enjoy what great players have already proven is a fantastic gameplay experience. At least, that's what reason I find for it.

EDIT: There's obviously that which Wind Owl mentioned too. That would actually be the main reason.

 

[Revven]

Why do you guys want to release an open beta again

Like what's your goal there

It wouldn't be anything like Brawl+ at all where it's constantly changed everyday if that's what you're thinking. It'd be like WindOwl said, anything we may have missed on the way of development that may need fixing (bug related), otherwise it's just to get it out to the public for a long period of time and see how it goes.

 

[OverLade]

Balancing the game like the guy who posted right before you said...

Natural development of the metagame will create things developers couldn't forsee and some of them may have to be changed...

 

[stingers]

Submit bugs = A-OK, but that can be done in private. You guys should try to find as many bugs as you can while it's private, and then release when it's finished. Any bugs found after that should just be left in unless they're like...obviously not right and completely ruin gameplay. Then you release v. 1.01 or whatever. It shouldn't start with 0.5...

Playtesting = Why would you even consider this? Private playtesting is fine, but giving it to the masses to "playtest"? When you publicly release something, people are going to treat it like a finished product, and having to deal with any changes are going to put people off. This isn't a PC gaming community, patches for balance in competitive fighters are really off-putting.

 

[Dingding123]

+1 for the ZSS rocketjump downB idea, and +9001 for taking out her tether grab. That's way too risky of a grab for someone as fragile as her.

All this open beta talk gets me thinking...will there be a closed beta? And who all will be able to try out the game? Me and my friends, right? Or will P:M just go straight from closed alpha to open beta?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

lol what...zss cant approach with sh aerials...nor can she dd camp she is too slow...and her grab game is unsafe as ****...how in the world did you come to that conclusion

In vBrawl, sh rar bair is a pretty common approach and spacing technique.

I was mostly referring to their juggle game and the fact that many moves exist for similar purposes. They of course do not play exactly alike or anything.

 

[Smile]

Curious, can you still wave OoS in this?

 

[ruhtraeel]

How bout ZSS has her tether grab, but it instantly retracts if it misses (close to a regular grab's frame duration)?

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

In vBrawl, sh rar bair is a pretty common approach and spacing technique.

I was mostly referring to their juggle game and the fact that many moves exist for similar purposes. They of course do not play exactly alike or anything.

Falcon and ZSS?
really?
edit: to all those who didn't like how i voiced my opinion on the bowser changes that weren't official, deal with it. Especially you randoms that just suck up to the mods/devs. I've spent a long time playing melee and I know a lot about the game. People have very high hopes for this project, myself included, and I don't want to see the idea of 2.0 and mindless following mess it up. Don't get so butthurt that I didn't like your idea, and don't tell me to leave. If you can't take the feedback then why bother with the project? That's all, I'll try to refrain from those types of posts again

 

[stingers]

How bout ZSS has her tether grab, but it instantly retracts if it misses (close to a regular grab's frame duration)?

Like Olimar?
o.o Olimar's pivot grab is broken. The only thing keeping him from top tier is his recovery, and I'm being 100% serious there. If ZSS had a similar pivot grab, she would be INSANE.

 

[Crispy4001]

Playtesting = Why would you even consider this? Private playtesting is fine, but giving it to the masses to "playtest"? When you publicly release something, people are going to treat it like a finished product, and having to deal with any changes are going to put people off. This isn't a PC gaming community, patches for balance in competitive fighters are really off-putting.

Boo-hoo to those whiners then, should they exist. They get the chance to play it earlier. Those with at least a peanut sized-brain will realize that anything in Beta is subject to change. Even us stubborn fight'n game types.

And to top it off, it's unlikely that everything will be completely peachy at release as well, no matter. I'm of the mindset that it'd be better just to call whatever the first publicly available version of P:M is a Beta regardless.

 

[Gindler]

Like yoshi's pivot grab? I could see ZSS with that

 

[Wind Owl]

Submit bugs = A-OK, but that can be done in private. You guys should try to find as many bugs as you can while it's private, and then release when it's finished. Any bugs found after that should just be left in unless they're like...obviously not right and completely ruin gameplay. Then you release v. 1.01 or whatever. It shouldn't start with 0.5...

Playtesting = Why would you even consider this? Private playtesting is fine, but giving it to the masses to "playtest"? When you publicly release something, people are going to treat it like a finished product, and having to deal with any changes are going to put people off. This isn't a PC gaming community, patches for balance in competitive fighters are really off-putting.

We didn't ask you.

 

[stingers]

Sigh...please tell me I'm not alone here...

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

I'll stand up for stingers on parts of this. If you release a beta, people are stupid and will treat it like a final. Then people will learn strategies and cool things with their beta characters and they will be upset when changes are made. If you do this you must REALLY stress that this is a beta, maybe make the title screen say beta or something, and have a disclaimer next to the dl link. It will make your fanboys really happy but things could go wrong

 

[kaizo13]

public Betas give more good than bad....plus they already mentioned it will be very under control

+who doesn't wanna play P:M?

 

[Wind Owl]

No, seriously. Why are you bringing this up?

1. It is not your decision.
2. We have seen the mistakes Brawl+ etc. have made and are keen to avoid them.
3. We're not ********.
4. The decision hasn't even been finalized and isn't even relevant at this point.

I honestly cannot for the life of me understand why you're bringing this up other than to just find something to ***** about.

 

[ICHIGOBLEACH]

And we are o-Serin-o, that's why it's closed alpha lol. The people talking in here either don't have the game, have played once or twice before, or are one of the devs (like me) who have it.

Yeah, I believe they're planning to release an open beta when it feels very much like a completed game meaning all characters are finalized and the physics feel perfect. By that point, balance will start coming into the picture as a primary goal and even then, updates will occur very infrequently.

No, seriously. Why are you bringing this up?

1. It is not your decision.
2. We have seen the mistakes Brawl+ etc. have made and are keen to avoid them.
3. We're not ********.
4. The decision hasn't even been finalized and isn't even relevant at this point.

I honestly cannot for the life of me understand why you're bringing this up other than to just find something to ***** about.

he didn't bring it up, and we voiced are opinions on the beta. im sure you guys can release it just fine. instead of telling us why you're not ********, why not just respond to each point made?

 

[GP&B]

Sigh...please tell me I'm not alone here...

Probably. Anyone who was around for Brawl+'s development knows all of the issues with its progress and it's incredibly obvious that the same mistakes will not be made. That has been stated very clearly several times.

 

[Revven]

I'm fairly certain we responded quite finely to what your questions and concerns were. At this moment in time, a beta would just be the game as finished as it can be and any bugs found that we did not find would be fixed which I assume none of you would have a problem with. Balance is not a thing on our mind right now, when it comes time to that then we'll have a better answer for you about that but right now, we're focused on getting the game to feel right and a beta likely will not come for some months now so please, be patient, and respect our decisions towards a schedule for how the game will be distributed.

 

[shanus]

It seems like whenever I leave this thread goes to **** again!

Commenting on our open beta:

As someone who was one of the leaders of Brawl+ for quite some time, I can say I won't make the same mistake twice. B+'s iterative patches were unsettling for many players and rattled any form of consistency that players tried to grow upon, and will not be present in Project M's development process.

The purpose of the open beta is really to make the product available to the masses in a state that we are proud of and think of as "near-complete." Think of it as a less ****ty version of starcraft 2 beta: designed to annihilate any last minute bugs as well as fix any last minute gamebreaking bugs. We will not be making frequent balance changes.

However, remember that while we have a solid team and a top notch armament of willing melee pros to test with us, we are not a professional game development team and this is a hobby, which we are not paid for. We don't have the full tools of a QC team and bugs may persist despite are numerous hours of testing. Stingers, this is the purpose of an open beta. We do the best we can, but if there is a serious bug, or a game-breaking infinite, it will be patched. However, you won't be seeing some character reworked in patches unless it is indeed gamebreaking.

Hope this helps, I wrote it quickly. Ask me questions and ill try and answer in the morning.

 

[Gindler]

I did enjoy playing Halo: Reach beta. Got to kinda play it before it actually came out. Kinda nice when you think about it

 

[XkaruX]

Is Brawl's pivot grab still in?

 

[GP&B]

The main thing about professional betas is that they do 1) the playtesting session as mentioned and 2) give the public a small taste of what the final product here. With what shanus said, #2 simply doesn't apply in this case because this situation does not call for that. It's going to be 90-95% of the real deal.

@XkaruX, yes.

 

[shanus]

Also, additional point, please try and be respectful here as well.

I know stingers has good intentions because he enjoys the game, but I hope people can stop trolling and keep the discussions legit. As someone who has been working on this for almost 9 months now, please try and keep this professional out of respect for our hard work.

 

[XkaruX]

But, wouldn't vB's pivot grab make tech-chasing much easier?

 

[kaizo13]

on topic of beta....will it be fully Wi-fi capable on release?


EDIT:

XkaruX it's called RAR and i've already questioned it plenty of times on this thread but devs. think it's a good mechanic and i agree it opens up many options (but i still don't think it belongs in this project....i mean u can give everybody 10 jumps and ofcourse it will give them better/more options...but do you really want that in Melee?)

*drastic example but you get the core of my point

 

[stingers]

as long as you wont make any balance changes after the open beta is released. then theres no problem. but the name open beta kind of goes against that lol

 

[GP&B]

Well, I thought the intent was only to make a compiled balance change throughout the cast after at least more than half a year if seen necessary. It's a top priority that the metagame develop heavily on the finalized characters so that minor things can be fixed.

 

[stingers]

Why would you want to change things more than half a year after the game is released lol. You give people half a year to get used to things then totally just change the metagame on them? Balance patches suck.

 

[GP&B]

It would allow the metagame to mature and make more intelligent decisions about improving characters while leaving the threshold for their play style in tact.