Project M Social Thread

[DarkDragoon]

lol <3 coders, sorry I can't suggest anything easy~

>_> Its not a problem if you don't suggest anything possible/easy...its just putting a bunch of text on the wall that will just be passed over.
-DD

 

[peachfvl]

*randomly appears from lurking*

Why not combine shanus´ idea with dant´s. What I mean is make swalloing waddles charge the jet hammer(can be charged up to 10, the doos make the count increase by 2, dees by 1). Each charge will increase the distance D3 will travel using the jet hammer and the amount of damage it does, but the hitbox will only appear if you press A(to give you more control). Once you use down-B the charges are depleted.

Also if you could use taunts to order your minions to attack,jump or turn around would be nice. Maybe giving taunts IASA frames at the end or make them jump cancelable after certain amount of frames wouldn´t make D3 a sitting duck.

 

[shanus]

Since this thread has been lacking direction lately, I'd like to stir up a more appropriate topic at hand: A discussion of melee hitbox data porting for less clear-cut charactes (read: mid or low tiers)

The idea here is discuss the following four characters:
Link
Ness
G&W
Pika

Which moves would like to see keep their brawl properties and which would you prefer to see melee-exact hitboxes?

Now with these characters, obviously some creative freedom is available on changing things that didn't work for them before, i.e. pk flash, but try and keep the discussion more oriented on direct hitbox ports.

 

[humble]

but if he's busy controlling his minions wouldn't that make him a sandbag while he's doing so?
wouldn't fox/falcon/anyone faster than bowser tear him apart while he's doing it? wouldn't you need to increase the amount of hits his waddle ****ers take so they last more than 2 seconds? would you be able to combo the waddle ****s? grab? i'd like to see a wombo combo on a gordo. that'd be fun.

oh how would he control the gordo? like a demonic heat seeking missile with death instead of explosions?

No because he can stop/start controlling them at any time, and generally he isn't going to be sitting back and sending them at his opponents- like you said, they'd get bypassed really quickly and be ineffective. And yes, increasing their health would be good. You don't send them to act independently, you use them in conjunction with your own play to pressure an opponent.

Say you summon a waddle, then approach your opponent with it close behind you- you attack, and your opponent has a harder time punishing because as soon as you input the attack, you move the waddle to attack and cover your lag. Or you draw a waddle behind your foe, and have it attack them from behind while you shield. Used haphazardly, they're a bad tool- used strategically, they can be quite good. You could have a waddle behind an opponent, and hit the opponent, attack with the waddle, which keeps them in range and in hitstun so you can followup. It's all in how you use them, how you put them to use.

You could combo them sure, but there isn't much point and you're leaving yourself open for the DeDeDe to attack you. You can't grab them- really, if you focus your attention on the waddles and not DeDeDe, you won't be winning- kill as many of them as you like, he has an infinite stock.

We'd remove the gordo probably, or change it to something else.

 

[GP&B]

Since this thread has been lacking direction lately, I'd like to stir up a more appropriate topic at hand: A discussion of melee hitbox data porting for less clear-cut charactes (read: mid or low tiers)

The idea here is discuss the following four characters:
Link
Ness
G&W
Pika

Which moves would like to see keep their brawl properties and which would you prefer to see melee-exact hitboxes?

Now with these characters, obviously some creative freedom is available on changing things that didn't work for them before, i.e. pk flash, but try and keep the discussion more oriented on direct hitbox ports.

Link for sure. I'm pretty sure he's got far superior aerials on almost every one of them. Also, his UTilt (which I know was getting fixed up anyways) needs Melee hitboxes so it can reach completely behind him.

 

[humble]

Since this thread has been lacking direction lately, I'd like to stir up a more appropriate topic at hand: A discussion of melee hitbox data porting for less clear-cut charactes (read: mid or low tiers)

The idea here is discuss the following four characters:
Link
Ness
G&W
Pika

Which moves would like to see keep their brawl properties and which would you prefer to see melee-exact hitboxes?

Now with these characters, obviously some creative freedom is available on changing things that didn't work for them before, i.e. pk flash, but try and keep the discussion more oriented on direct hitbox ports.

Well obviously G&W's parachute should be returned, and personally I always preferred Melee G&W's dtilt.

For Link I mainly want back all his specials, besides the spin in the air. I think his boomerang, arrows, spin, and bombs were all better in Melee.

Ness I'd like to see his yo-yo's returned to Melee status.

Pika I think his uair mostly, can't remember Melee pika too well.

 

[Sora-kun]

Since this thread has been lacking direction lately, I'd like to stir up a more appropriate topic at hand: A discussion of melee hitbox data porting for less clear-cut charactes (read: mid or low tiers)

The idea here is discuss the following four characters:
Link
Ness
G&W
Pika

Which moves would like to see keep their brawl properties and which would you prefer to see melee-exact hitboxes?

Now with these characters, obviously some creative freedom is available on changing things that didn't work for them before, i.e. pk flash, but try and keep the discussion more oriented on direct hitbox ports.

yay shanus takin' charge

ok so

Link
-melee dsmash
-melee u tilt.
-z air range of melee link. or samus at least at least. melee grab range would be sweet.
-melee bomb hitbox. (if possible w/o too much issue)
-----
ness
-pk2 doesn't get half distance when it hits someone.
-maybe have pk flash explode faster when you let go of the button? i know there's a slight delay or something.

 

[GP&B]

... shanus was talking about mostly porting Melee hitboxes, not changing up other things >_>.

 

[Sora-kun]

... shanus was talking about mostly porting Melee hitboxes, not changing up other things >_>.

huh? oh sorry i didn't see that part..=/ my bad then. i'll edit it lol

edit: there i made it shorter

 

[Dingding123]

How handy; I've been having a Ness phase in melee recently, so I can definitely help with suggestions for him.

...however, I'm no hitbox guru hope this helps anyway.

pkFiyah - Let it have a large enough hitbox to where one is unable to DI out of immediately like in Melee, and on a side note it should create a pillar of fire even if it hits someone's shield.

Yo-Yo's -Larger radius and slightly larger hitboxes. Shouldn't be able to reach where the yo-yo's go with any of his tilts, by far.

pkFlash - ...well, you could leave it as is like the warlock/falcon punch, or you could have it have a much larger hitbox when it explodes, as well as being much faster in general.

jabs - should have large enough hitboxes to where they aren't fully replaced by the bullet kick.

Sorry if any of this has been done in brawl - I'm just looking at things that need fixing that are straight from melee.

 

[a nub]

Haven't played brawl in a long time but let's see:

Pika definitely needs melee nair and uair. I think his usmash and fsmash were weaker in brawl so those should go melee. His specials were better in brawl iirc so those should stay I guess.

Ness's yo yos were pretty useless in melee except for yo yo glitch so those should probably stay brawl. Melee uair was **** on FFers so that needs to return. idk what the stats are for brawl nair but melee one with land lag reduced to 7 from 11 could be good occasionally for shield pressure. Range still sucks compared to fair but idk what else could be done, unless brawl's has a bigger hitbox.

For G&W, I think last time I saw him on a stream he still had brawl dthrow. What if the melee dthrow replaced his uthrow?

 

[JCaesar]

The idea here is discuss the following four characters:
Link
Ness
G&W
Pika

Which moves would like to see keep their brawl properties and which would you prefer to see melee-exact hitboxes?

Oh and if anyone even brings up G&W's fishbowl nair, my giant pig will eat your firstborn son.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Fishbowl!!!

 

[Sora-kun]

Oh and if anyone even brings up G&W's fishbowl nair, my giant pig will eat your firstborn son.

what if we have 2 daughters only?

anyway i thought the parachute was superior to the bowl =/

 

[GP&B]

Yeah, anyone who bothers to bring up the fishbowl has not seen the 'chute.

 

[Oracle]

Will yoshi's shield have the lightshield shenanigans that it does in melee?

 

[Revven]

We don't even have regular light shielding in...

 

[BEES]

Yeah, anyone who bothers to bring up the fishbowl has not seen the 'chute.

I would hope there's some way both attacks could be incorporated into G&W's moveset. Like having the fishbowl be the nair, but he could down cancel his up+b very early into the parachute, and the parachute would have its Melee properties.

Something like that would be cool... and complex.

 

[JCaesar]

No, it would be stupid... and gay.

 

[GP&B]

Definitely gotta consider the homosexuality of that idea.

/funnyguiz

 

[.Fade]

I would hope there's some way both attacks could be incorporated into G&W's moveset. Like having the fishbowl be the nair, but he could down cancel his up+b very early into the parachute, and the parachute would have its Melee properties.

Something like that would be cool... and complex.

Technically, fishbowl can be mapped to Z-air, which is absurdly simply to code in PSA. =]

Then again, and custom Z-Air isn't very Melee-like, now is it? =P

 

[I R MarF]

The parachute basically makes Mr. G&W a giant hitbox that KOs... the fisbowl is obsolete in comparison.

Since this thread has been lacking direction lately, I'd like to stir up a more appropriate topic at hand: A discussion of melee hitbox data porting for less clear-cut charactes (read: mid or low tiers)

The idea here is discuss the following four characters:
Link
Ness
G&W
Pika

Which moves would like to see keep their brawl properties and which would you prefer to see melee-exact hitboxes?

Now with these characters, obviously some creative freedom is available on changing things that didn't work for them before, i.e. pk flash, but try and keep the discussion more oriented on direct hitbox ports.

Pika's melee uair, definitely.


Also, on a side note (this doesn't have much to do with hitboxes) but can Ness's Yo-Yo be fixed so it can dip over the edge while charging like it could in Melee? I'm not sure if you have already done this but its a nice edge guarding tactic, IMO.

 

[JCaesar]

That and the fact that FISHBOWL IS ********.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Technically, fishbowl can be mapped to Z-air, which is absurdly simply to code in PSA. =]

Then again, and custom Z-Air isn't very Melee-like, now is it? =P

Zairs too eh???

G&W should keep his Brawl Dsmash since his Melee one has tricky to sweetspot and it's sourspot is weak and easy to punish.

G&W's ftilt should come out faster IMO.

 

[.Fade]

Zairs too eh???

G&W should keep his Brawl Dsmash since his Melee one has tricky to sweetspot and it's sourspot is weak and easy to punish.

G&W's ftilt should come out faster IMO.

Not too much faster, because the hitbox sits there for like ten years once it's out anyway.

 

[Little England]

im surprised nobody brought up minion control

for example, what if he only had waddle dees, and every time he say ftilts, the waddle dees attacks, every time he turns, etc. Or somehow map his downB to some form of waddle dee control?

Cool idea. I'm going to flip it.

Throw a waddle dee. He'll stay out and walk around the field like normal. Press down B and hold B to make DDD go into his crouching pose. While holding the B button down you can control Waddle Dees to move left and right and do their attack with A. DDD will be crouching whenever he is in control of his minions. I think this can work the same with waddle doos.

if you don't think they dominate than you're simply wrong
also a long time ago mango won genesis with falco/puff
the only reason they don't win nationals is that the 2 best in the world play puff and it's hard to maintain a high level of technical consistency over long periods of time
the spacies (most notably fox) dominate at a local/regional level, look at the characters ranking list in the melee discussion to see what I mean
edit: here's that list http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267771
pm related: will falco be able to gatling combo? sounds like it has potential to make him even better

Mango won Genesis with Puff. He did not go all Falco. Even so, Mango is clearly an outlier. And the fact that the two best players in the world play Puff and it's hard to maintain consistency with spacies over a long period of time is CLEARLY a testament as to how undominate they are. That rankings list means so very little. People thought Marth was the dominate character in the past, and then they thought it was spacies, and now Puff.

Perhaps our definitions of "dominate" aren't the same. Dominate to me is Metaknight.

 

[Little England]

woops

ignore.

 

[L/A/W]

No, it would be stupid... and gay.

That and the fact that FISHBOWL IS ********.

this gw's brawl nair is retarted

also pikachu melee: u-air, usmash, nair brawl: other smashes, thunder, t-jolt, other things
gw: brawl: smashes, bair melee: the rest
ness: don't know anything about ness
link: melee everything barwl link is so bad

 

[Plum]

ddd will probably have a slow wd like all other fatties...i wouldnt count on it

His friction is definitely in need of increasing.
Right now though he can wavedash like a little

Spoiler

or big

Luigi though

 

[OverLade]

woops

ignore.

OMGGGGG ITS LLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEE.

Sup?

 

[iLink]

OMGGGGG ITS LLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEE.

Sup?

Lol that's what I said


Also if you guys are still considering the minion control thing, an idea I had was that he goes into his crouching animation and any waddle dee/doo on the screen does their basic attack such as the leap or the little shock.

 

[.Fade]

Actually, Brawl Pika D-Smash >>> Melee. I guess nerf the Brawl one a little bit to make it more DI-able.

 

[Sora-kun]

this gw's brawl nair is retarted

also pikachu melee: u-air, usmash, nair brawl: other smashes, thunder, t-jolt, other things
gw: brawl: smashes, bair melee: the rest
ness: don't know anything about ness
link: melee everything barwl link is so bad

except his range. brawl link range and first 2 hits of his jab, brawl u smash and i think that's actually all that got better in terms of hitboxes (jab simply works in brawl unlike melee where it has like no stun)

 

[Deleted member]

The vBrawl moves and hitboxes which involve Link's sword attacks seem more disjointed than Melee's which helps him undoubtedly.

Melee Link's dsmash is better than his brawl version due to the hit path being straight up for a fair/nair follow up depending on opponent and percentage and the possibility of it shield poking.

His bair is also better as the vBrawl because the first hit has set BKB to guarantee the 2nd hit more often, but the move leads to no follow ups and doesn't really offer much. Tweak the BKB or hitpath on that to see a more interesting follow up.

Change the Arrow QD for Link from reduced lag to zero lag.


The same generally applies to the P:M Pika using the vBrawl moves modified to match Melee's functions. Those moves tend to hit in a more disjointed manner. Dtilt, Utilt, jab, ftilt, and fsmash are noticeably more disjointed than his Melee counterpart's.

Also Pika's momentum and speed feel appropriate and useful. His vBrawl grab range and his P:M JC grab range also far exceed Melee's pitful grab as well.

Pika feels good. I can only think of improvments like the Melee up air and 64 back air to him. He's fantastic.

 

[Dingding123]

To everyone suggesting that link's QD arrows should have zero landing lag:

imagine melee falco's SHlazer spam.

Now imagine two melee falcos SHlazer spamming with FF off.

Now replace the two falcos with one link, and the lazers with arrows.

I'm all for buffing link some, but there are some lines that should not be crossed. His metagame shouldn't revolve around his arrows, especially to the point that it would be pointless NOT to QD arrow every time you land.

Spoiler

......on a side note, what the heck is up with humble and that cucoo bombs idea.

Edit: I really like the D3 minion idea xD That would be awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

To everyone suggesting that link's QD arrows should have zero landing lag:

imagine melee falco's SHlazer spam.

Now imagine two melee falcos SHlazer spamming with FF off.

Now replace the two falcos with one link, and the lazers with arrows.

I'm all for buffing link some, but there are some lines that should not be crossed. His metagame shouldn't revolve around his arrows, especially to the point that it would be pointless NOT to QD arrow every time you land.

Spoiler

......also, what the heck is up with humble and that cucoo bombs idea.

Lol. You seriously think Link with his lagless arrows would rival Falco's wall of lasers?

Watch a video with Lambchops.

 

[Dingding123]

Meh. Maybe I stretched that.

1 link with lagless QD arrows, shooting twice per SH = SHL'ing falco x 1.5 speed.

There we go.

 

[Sora-kun]

To everyone suggesting that link's QD arrows should have zero landing lag:

imagine melee falco's SHlazer spam.

Now imagine two melee falcos SHlazer spamming with FF off.

Now replace the two falcos with one link, and the lazers with arrows.

I'm all for buffing link some, but there are some lines that should not be crossed. His metagame shouldn't revolve around his arrows, especially to the point that it would be pointless NOT to QD arrow every time you land.

Spoiler

......on a side note, what the heck is up with humble and that cucoo bombs idea.

Edit: I really like the D3 minion idea xD That would be awesome.

if the cucco idea made it in i'd facepalm hard and give the devs an angry stare. i think his arrows should be at least useful in some way. maybe give him bomb arrows when he shoots an arrow while holding a bomb? but that might actually hurt him some because some links like to be kewl and use specials while holding a bomb.. idk

 

[Dingding123]

if the cucco idea made it in i'd facepalm hard and give the devs an angry stare. i think his arrows should be at least useful in some way. maybe give him bomb arrows when he shoots an arrow while holding a bomb? but that might actually hurt him some because some links like to be kewl and use specials while holding a bomb.. idk

OOH! The bomb arrow idea again! I've actually thought this one through since the last time someone brought it up:

While holding a bomb, if you start charging an arrow and press A, you quickly wrap your bomb around your arrow and the fuse on the new bomb arrow is set to 3 or 4 seconds. The bomb arrow arcs more than arrows do, and do an extra 8-9% damage. The knockback of a fully charged bomb arrow is the equivalent of a bob-omb's.

 

[Little England]

OMGGGGG ITS LLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEE.

Sup?

sup

Lol that's what I said


Also if you guys are still considering the minion control thing, an idea I had was that he goes into his crouching animation and any waddle dee/doo on the screen does their basic attack such as the leap or the little shock.

That was my idea! lol