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Project M Social Thread

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Bryonato

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Well... I don't know much about Pokechamps but if you guys would like to come watch some Mother 3 (the game Lucas is from) I'll be streaming in about 45 min. Would love to hang with some of you folks

www.twitch.tv/bryonato

Sorry to interrupt... Please continue with the Pokemon conversation.
 

9Kplus1

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All of the Pokemon listed sans Scyther are heavily impacted by SR (because obviously Scyther was never gonna be OU regardless). Their roles and niches ARE being cut short due to that massive weakness.
Perhaps I didn't make the point of that post clear; but those were just examples of Pokemon that aren't completely useless due to a 4x weakness to SR--much better examples than lolmega.

Moltres on paper sounds ok, but it has too many conflicting things going on... He's an awkward Pokemon for OU, for that niche. It's outclassed as a generic special sweeper or Spec user, so then it's further narrowed down and constricted in usefulness
I don't wanna sound like a wannabe OU player--but have you even used it? Digging for concrete in the sky will do nothing but keep your head suspended above the clouds. I've been using Moltres on my main team since the production of its first Gen V OU analysis; other creditable players have used it as well and don't find it to be 'outclassed as a sweeper or Spec user'. How you can make such audacious statements is far beyond my understanding. Now, onto ripping apart this portion of your post:
You want 100% Hurricane at the cost of weakening Fire Blast, 100% Thunder from other Rain comps, having a Pokemon that's basically worthless defensively sans vs Sun Teams, etc.
Your ignorance knows no limits, does it? First of all, Fire Blast, even with its power halved, hits its intended targets (most Steel-types) for heavy damage. Jirachi is literally the only target that Fire Blast doesn't outright KO; and even then, LO Hurricane + Fire Blast usually secures the KO on SDef variants. Also... huh? Since when is being able to casually switch into Celebi, Lucario, Lando-I (again, I have to stress this one because it's one of OU's top threats), basically every Steel-type, Ninetales, Heatran, Breloom, Gliscor (though, it's not as relevant in OU as Lando-T), a fair amount of Jellicent, Mamoswine (haven't seen Stone Edge in months), basically all of standard hail, and many others worthless? I don't have a clue which metagame you're playing, but in BW2 OU, that's pretty vital.

Oh, and I have my doubts that 100% accurate Thunders mean much when you're OHKOing every-****ing-thing in your path. Granted, it forces Moltres to tiptoe around like, Thund-T, Scarftom-W and SDef Jirachi, but a bit of patience will result in all three Pokemon getting scrapped.

Agility Set won't have the power you want/need, Spec sets are slow and poop easy to revenge, it's not good. Without rain, basically kiss Hurricane goodbye.
Oh, I'm sorry! Base 125 Special Attack apparently isn't powerful enough for OU. I guess that Tornadus-I is super bad in OU after all and deserves nothing higher than UU status. Man, everyone must've been (and still are) following some wack ass standards if they're resorting to using something with base 125 Special Attack. C'mon, I know you're smarter than this.

I also question the idea of Articuno in Ubers, because how would it shine in that role better than another choice? I don't understand Hurricane, in Ubers, from an Articuno... being that amazing lol. Ice STAB is great, but it hits like a weak puny *****. Articuno doesn't even muster 100 base SA, that's not impressive enough to scare off enough threats. What scenarios are popping up, that he's proving to be useful? If a Specs Dragon is out, you either soak the hit switching Articuno in or Articuno is coming in after the faint. The first scenario can get real ugly if SR is around, the second isn't special because plenty of Pokemon can force the switch from Latios/etc Pokemon that just Draco'd. If the Pokemon is neither weak to Ice or Hurricane, you probably won't have the offensive muster to threaten it. If it's a CM user, maybe you can Toxic it, but yeah I'm just not seeing it. It sounds like a huge liability and more like a limited option against the people that don't play Kyogre as well as they could/similar pokes. Special Sponge, but gonna do poorly against Electric and Fire. Not to mention that awful typing is **** for dealing with Priority.
Have you used Salamence + Rayquaza in Gen IV? It's pretty much the same concept. Take something noticeably weaker than a powerful threat in Ubers and use it to weaken said threat's checks and counters juuuuuuuuust enough for them to finish off later. Articuno pairs well with something along the lines of Kyu-W--something that greatly appreciates particular defensive threats softened up a bit before wreaking havoc. It's not something that I would consider practical, but hey, Speed Boost Yanmega in BW2 UU is no better.

Yanmega went downhill with Team Preview, same with Ninjask, because knowing beforehand about Speed Boost Pokemon is a huge boon and can easily allow you to stop or plan for their setup. The only hard flaw that he had in DP (besides SR) was that he just didn't hit hard enough. He had too many counters though, and Team Preview further ruined him (that and SR being used on more than dedicated leads was a bad shift for him)
DPP OU right before the introduction of BW (and by extent team preview) didn't have anymore trouble with Yanmega than early BW1 did. Power wasn't its problem back then; Yanmega hit just about all of OU's top players for either super-effective or heavy damage. Yanmega struggled with separating itself from its competition, Starmie in particular due to comparable coverage on the metagame and 'high enough' Speed stat. To keep things short, if you prepared your OU team for most standard threats, then you'd have Yanmega more than handled. Speed Boost or not, if my team can handle something as simple as FWG core, then it should be able to munch on Yanmega.

also, Ninjask is rarely used outside of the lead position, and even then, the presence of something overall pathetic defensively desperate to set up will be made obvious pretty early in the game. "My opponent lead off with Aerodactyl? They obviously don't want rocks up, so I should keep my revenge killers and / or phazers healthy."

Using Specs took away the Protect option for securing a speed boost, and severely limited you in coverage because you can't afford to be stuck on 1 move and then watch Heatran switch in for free. With a bit more power behind him/better STABS, he would have been nasty in DP.
Better STABs? He Bug Buzz / Air Slash covers pretty much the entire tier lol. Also, Specs + Speed Boost is very ass and I genuinely have no idea how it came into this conversation. But yeah, I definitely agree that if Yanmega had at least base 130 Special Attack, it would rock DPP OU.
 

Vashimus

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The difference is though, that Salamence and Rayquaza BOTH have good attacking stats to break down walls together. You're saying a Pokemon with Base 170 Sp. Attack has trouble breaking past certain Pokes, and needs one with base 95 Sp. Attack to wear them down? Tickling Kyogre with Hurricane isn't going to soften it up any more than hitting it with a Draco Meteor on the switch, which has a good chance of OHKO'ng it anyway. Kyurem-W doesn't really need partners to punch holes in things, as it can OHKO or 2HKO anything in Ubers not named Chansey. With all due respect, Articuno in Ubers way more ridiculous than using Yanmega in UU. Heck, they aren't even comparable.

Yeah, Moltres is actually pretty good in OU rain, as it handles Ferrothorn, Celebi and sun teams beautifully. I should try it.
 

metroid1117

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Random question - who's the most ENTERTAINING player to watch? (Character bias is welcome.)

My favorite is probably Silent Wolf; I enjoy watching characters that require lots of tech skill and technical players that can handle them while playing intelligently. Plus, Wolf is a character that I haven't been watching for 10 years.
 

Bryonato

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As a Ness main I love watching SinisterB. Other players I love to watch would be Strong Bad, Chillin, ELI and really any experienced Lucario player.
 

DMG

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Perhaps I didn't make the point of that post clear; but those were just examples of Pokemon that aren't completely useless due to a 4x weakness to SR--much better examples than lolmega.


I don't wanna sound like a wannabe OU player--but have you even used it? Digging for concrete in the sky will do nothing but keep your head suspended above the clouds. I've been using Moltres on my main team since the production of its first Gen V OU analysis; other creditable players have used it as well and don't find it to be 'outclassed as a sweeper or Spec user'. How you can make such audacious statements is far beyond my understanding. Now, onto ripping apart this portion of your post:

Your ignorance knows no limits, does it? First of all, Fire Blast, even with its power halved, hits its intended targets (most Steel-types) for heavy damage. Jirachi is literally the only target that Fire Blast doesn't outright KO; and even then, LO Hurricane + Fire Blast usually secures the KO on SDef variants. Also... huh? Since when is being able to casually switch into Celebi, Lucario, Lando-I (again, I have to stress this one because it's one of OU's top threats), basically every Steel-type, Ninetales, Heatran, Breloom, Gliscor (though, it's not as relevant in OU as Lando-T), a fair amount of Jellicent, Mamoswine (haven't seen Stone Edge in months), basically all of standard hail, and many others worthless? I don't have a clue which metagame you're playing, but in BW2 OU, that's pretty vital.
I wouldn't use Moltres in OU because of SR and because I don't think it has a great niche besides vs Sun. Nobody really runs hail, so if you stomp the 2% of people running around with a hail team then congrats. Actually maybe vs rain Stall he would be kinda useful, definitely not vs offensive rain.

In Rain, LO Fire Blast does 49 to 57% to SpDef Jirachi. That's an example of Rain seriously hampering your damage to Fire Blast. Using LO may be your best choice regardless, but it will seriously limit the staying time of a Pokemon that already loses half to SR, and you basically stick it out til it faints. If SR isn't up or you spun it away, then things look peachy for Moltres. That's just highly unlikely, although I've seen a few gimmick teams without it (Trick Room, Gravity, etc)

Oh, and I have my doubts that 100% accurate Thunders mean much when you're OHKOing every-****ing-thing in your path. Granted, it forces Moltres to tiptoe around like, Thund-T, Scarftom-W and SDef Jirachi, but a bit of patience will result in all three Pokemon getting scrapped.


Oh, I'm sorry! Base 125 Special Attack apparently isn't powerful enough for OU. I guess that Tornadus-I is super bad in OU after all and deserves nothing higher than UU status. Man, everyone must've been (and still are) following some wack *** standards if they're resorting to using something with base 125 Special Attack. C'mon, I know you're smarter than this.


Have you used Salamence + Rayquaza in Gen IV? It's pretty much the same concept. Take something noticeably weaker than a powerful threat in Ubers and use it to weaken said threat's checks and counters juuuuuuuuust enough for them to finish off later. Articuno pairs well with something along the lines of Kyu-W--something that greatly appreciates particular defensive threats softened up a bit before wreaking havoc. It's not something that I would consider practical, but hey, Speed Boost Yanmega in BW2 UU is no better.
Also means you run from Rain themed Dragonite but that's minor.

125 SA is great, but one of the ways you're advocating to use the Pokemon really cuts into its power. The Agility set will plenty of times lack the power to break through a threat. If you have that set vs Sun, then you hit jackpot sure because you'll basically 1 shot their threats with Fire Blast (if the Sun is already out, everyone better run) and HP Ground. Even Pokemon that resist Fire Blast will be hard pressed to really stand up to it in the Sun. But will it have enough power on its own to sweep a weatherless team? If Rain comes up and they aren't weak to Fire Blast or Hurricane, will you be able to slay them before they likely demolish you?

Agility sets will cover the speed in situations when that's *all* you need. Even with 125 and LO, that's not enough to power through and if Rain is in the way? Even harder.

On the flip side, without agility you are painfully slow. Even discounting the amount of Scarf running around, there are a ton of threats that move faster and will make you sad bird. Heck, a Jirachi with speed runs faster than Moltres, and that's not particularly speedy.


DPP OU right before the introduction of BW (and by extent team preview) didn't have anymore trouble with Yanmega than early BW1 did. Power wasn't its problem back then; Yanmega hit just about all of OU's top players for either super-effective or heavy damage. Yanmega struggled with separating itself from its competition, Starmie in particular due to comparable coverage on the metagame and 'high enough' Speed stat. To keep things short, if you prepared your OU team for most standard threats, then you'd have Yanmega more than handled. Speed Boost or not, if my team can handle something as simple as FWG core, then it should be able to munch on Yanmega.

also, Ninjask is rarely used outside of the lead position, and even then, the presence of something overall pathetic defensively desperate to set up will be made obvious pretty early in the game. "My opponent lead off with Aerodactyl? They obviously don't want rocks up, so I should keep my revenge killers and / or phazers healthy."
Yanmega lameness in early DP hinged on if SR got put up. At least in those days, suicide leads were really common before the Swampert/Heatran/Metagross leads. Azelf Aero etc was everywhere. Bulkier leads came into favor and people accepted both sides getting SR up with the upside of trying to get a favorable position easier.

Ninjask as a lead obviously. Team Preview killed his usage because there's no more surprise anymore. I'm not sure where in all of that, you thought I meant *not* leading with him and starting a BP chain lol.


Better STABs? He Bug Buzz / Air Slash covers pretty much the entire tier lol. Also, Specs + Speed Boost is very *** and I genuinely have no idea how it came into this conversation. But yeah, I definitely agree that if Yanmega had at least base 130 Special Attack, it would rock DPP OU.
Not Specs and Speed Boost, Specs and Tinted. The Specs set was usable because it powered through some of the defensive stalwarts with 2HKO's. Made switching say Skarmory on him a liability. Better STABs, I meant for powering through defensive Pokemon not offensive. His STABs (and HP coverage) as you notice demolish like 75% of the offensive Pokemon. That didn't mean much however if the Pokemon thrown out was sturdy enough to phaze or hit back, and those STABs were not useful for getting past healthy Swampert/Suicune/Skarmory/etc. Speed was the gimmick instead of massive power, which is why plenty of teams that assumed their general scarf check would work suddenly got bodied by him lol.
 

DMG

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leelue

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http://smashboards.com/forums/poké-center.57/

there is seriously a board specifically for that. can't you guys use that :[
They want to talk specifically with the people who are their friends here.

fountain of dreams is a great stage
if you don't want to play on it game 1 use one of your 3 strikes on it just like spacies do for FD against 90% of the cast lol
1) If I could, I would not have FD be a starter at my tournaments anyway.
2) WarioWare needs to be on the bottom row, somewhere. Anywhere. Yoshi's is awful-city, replace that one.
 

DMG

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Wario Ware should probably get a redesign. Like, get rid of the tiny upper platforms at the least, it's ****in awkward and everyone knows it.
 

SpiderMad

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If Yoshi's blast zones were increased just a little bit I think I'd be happy

WW like DMG said is awkward but can't you get use to it..eventually? It's like your common set-ups can't really be well established, and that might be a good thing.
 

traffic.

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Wario Ware should probably get a redesign. Like, get rid of the tiny upper platforms at the least, it's ****in awkward and everyone knows it.
got johns son

learn the map, it's awesome with the top platform exactly where they are for enough of the cast to make it an interesting counterpick and is way better than GHZ in every way. Think of this map as any killroom FPS map, it's close, it's gritty, and you have to be tight to survive.
 

leelue

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The upper platforms are not awkward once you get on my level

I love them and I love what they do. Wario Ware is easily the stage that I find to be the most fun.
Besides
Ganon's ledge jump makes it up there. Awesome.
 

leelue

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I think skyworld is the most underrated stage in the game.
People really tend to Hate it but I love playing on it. I appreciate everything about it except for the damned underbelly.
If only it had a slightly more smashville bottom...

Oh and I don't like that you cant clearly see where the platforms are. I think that they should bring back the brick graphic so you could actually tell without guessing.

Ok so it's got problems
 

Juushichi

sugoi ~ sugoi ~
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It does have a few problems, but I like the aesthetic, the platform layout and everything. Learning to WL on the clouds is kind of... eh but still consistent. It's a fun GnW CP for me.
 

Yung Mei

Where all da hot anime moms at
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i like warioware because everyone dies at 30 percent from the sides, its hilarious /exaggeration
 

Jolteon

I'm sharpening my knife, kupo.
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yo breez convert to twitch.tv in your options ;p

WarioWare is probably my favourite stage in the game. I love it, and its platform layout.
 

CyberZixx

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I like WarioWare, Skyworld not so much. Replace the clouds with actual platforms and It's fine.
 

traffic.

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http://www.twitch.tv/play_for_keeps

Streaming P:M friendlies with Breez, Traffic, and Blunted_Object10! switched to a twitch account on account of everyone being a giant baby over their emoticons. We are here to please you, the people, with our stoned ramblings and janky hijinx. Vancouver is the home of many great gamers, and if we're going to spend hours on end playing this game, then you can spend hours relating to our shenanigans. Rated sfw if you work at a glass blowing factory or a dune-buggy welding shop.
 

trash?

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NNID
????
I've never actually used skyworld, the clouds always kinda seemed silly. I should probably mess around with it in traini--ohmygod snake's mines are barely/not seen if you plant them on the clouds.

please don't ever change this stage it's too beautiful
 
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