Project M Social Thread

[bubbaking]

Not sure how to help you, then. As you probably know, the newer your Wii is, the harder hacking it beco- wait a second... Are you sure the Homebrew you're trying to install is compatible with your System Menu? The Homebrew devs had to release a new version (and I think a new installation method) every time Nintendo updated the Wii's System Menu and effectively 'broke' the Homebrew hack for that time.

 

[JOE!]

That video was quite possibly the worst example of camping I have ever seen in my life. You just said "black is my favorite color, here's a picture of it" and instead of showing me a picture at all, you did a handstand and ate a pineapple.

That is the only equivalent I can think of that is adequately far removed from what you intended to show that acceptably articulates how bad an example a Fox holding towards a Charizard for 4 minutes is for camping out the timer.

SSE Jungle is also literally incapable of allowing Circle camping in any sense of the word as there is no circle present.

I have come to the conclusion that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

100% relavent

 

[Smooth Criminal]

100% relavent

Also 100% relevant.

Smooth Criminal

 

[bubbaking]

Umm, we WERE talking about Hyrule Temple though. I said "SSE:J is big, but it's not Hyrule Temple or anything" and then YOU said "I'm actually more fine with Hyrule Temple than I am with SSE Jungle, but my reasons are probably only personal. "

So... you fail....

You're right. I mis-worded myself. Metroid and Vash got it, though. I was always talking about Castle.

Still, all of you who may think I brought up this topic of campiness on large stages, stop hating on me because I'm not even the one that started this convo and I'm definitely not the only one who thinks this way as evidenced below:

Spoiler

Anyone with good keepaway or mobility. If the stage is bad enough, it can extend from a subset of characters into MU's that are "I move around better than you, good luck". Example being say Squirtle. He probably won't time someone out on a "normal" stage, but I can easily see him giving someone a much harder time on Skyloft/Jungle/Falls/etc. Or take a MU with two relatively "slow" characters like Peach Ganon. But give Peach a ton of room/platform area to work with and suddenly the MU gets ugly for no good reason. Abuse AGT with TL to boost yourself to places/get away.

If you play Sheik or Fox or xyz character that tends to have a solid time going in, you probably don't care what big *** stage people might pick to get a bit more breathing room. Link or TL or a character that likes some breathing room, they may love the stages, but realistically you probably won't make a dent vs some of your worse MU's on the stage because eventually they will get you (or turn the tables on you for picking more room, by getting the lead and then making you approach). Meanwhile, Captain Falcon vs Dedede becomes a nightmare for him to catch.

That's why I'm not a fan of bigger stages, because it's veryyyy easy to slip from "Zoners and Projectile users and people wanting just a tad more room get a boost" into "Camping nightmare". The line is quite thin sometimes, and that's a big reason why I'm more in favor of scrapping most of them entirely and experimenting with different stage layouts of a much smaller size to begin with. I don't see the benefit of including a lot of these stages in the "initial" part of the metagame, which will 90% end up getting scrapped as people abuse them for the CP instead of "fair" MU's like Mario vs Link, and all after we've spent so much time trying to play on them and make characters competitive on them. I'd rather never be able to find the perfect Ness CP, than try to come up with one and also lopside 60-70% of MU's towards the more mobile character.

Not campy that I hate. Campy on big stages I hate.

I can make that call and save tournaments the bother (to be fair, that's the only instant ban due to size, Rumble Falls Skyloft etc are less clear). Rumble Falls was shrunked in size from 2.1 correct? If that's true, it's a step in the right direction.

Big stages tend to be dominated by that camping. Again, I don't mind attempting to give Link TL or other characters a slightly better time, but if it comes at the cost of playing Tag due to mobility then it's not worth it.

SSE Jungle is not going to be a healthy, competitive stage for singles. At all. I'm more than willing to experiment with Norfair Skyloft etc, but that 1 particular stage is awful and it would be a waste to make it legal then ban it down the road, because yes in tournament lame **** happened on it.

It's not a healthy mentality to apply to all stages. SSE Jungle is the exception: it's that friggen huge.

Games on SSE Jungle can easily go to timeouts every match if you make it your goal.

Point made, hopefully.

There are no "rules". Walk-offs, walls, etc., can all work in a competitive setting. What matters is the result they have. If all walls or all walk-offs have the same results each time that's irrelevant, each stage needs to be reviewed individually.

Having a preferred playstyle is not a reason to ban or legitimize a stage. As much as DMG dislikes the "campy" play, I prefer it myself. I played that way in both Melee and Brawl. There's no damage to the competitive nature of the game, just the amount of fun some people have. I prefer Skyloft to Battlefield any day of the week.

Delfino itself hasn't had "janky" aspects to it since 2008 when people realized what each stage property meant. Kind of like how in PS1 people stopped going into the cavern area and getting shine infinited pretty fast.

Hey Overswarm, I'm curious. What was your position on the MBR banning KJ64 and RC (and before that, Poke Floats)? Brinstar is understandable because of hitboxes, and so is Jungle Japes.

 

[standardtoaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tEID39E-UdE#t=135s

 

[JOE!]

Also 100% relevant.

Smooth Criminal

>>>>> Cars

 

[Kink-Link5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tEID39E-UdE#t=135s

Can bowser have 15% super armor at all times yet?

#projectminus

 

[bubbaking]

Dang, that was the luckiest crap ever! He literally got the same number, like, three times in probably less than 9 uses.

Edit: So re-watching that and keeping track of all the hammers, he got:
8, 9, 2, 8, 5, 9, 2, 3, 8, 7, 3, 1, 9
Like, how do you even manage that? This is the kind of guy I would never want face in tournament just 'cause I know the worst stuff would happen for absolutely no reason. That level of hax was the equivalent of Tackle missing just because it can.

 

[Kati]

"-Mr. G&W's Side B Hammers 2-8 adjusted in various ways to reward Mr. Game & Watch a lot more"

good stuff

Can someone explain knockback "growth" to me? I think I get it, but I've never found or heard a precise definition.

 

[Spiffykins]

It refers to how strongly the KB scales with the opponent's %. High base KB + high growth = kills early.

 

[bubbaking]

Knockback growth (KBG) is basically a measure of how much the knockback (KB) of a move increases as the opponent's % increases. For instance, a normally really weak move, a.k.a. a move with low base knockback (BKB), with high KBG could end up killing at high %'s. Likewise, a normally fairly strong move (high BKB) with very low KBG could end up not killing, even at high %'s, giving the appearance of having set KB. I think a move with "set KB", in and of itself, is just a move with 0 KBG, but someone would have to confirm that for me. A move with high BKB and KBG will kill very early. A move with low of both will almost never kill. Basically, BKB + KBG make up a move's main KB properties.

If you want slightly more detailed, yet concise, definitions of both knockback growth and base knockback (or other terms), check out my thread:
Terms, Abbreviations, and Concepts
You may want to use the Ctrl + F function.

 

[OptimusRhymez]

Are there any plans to ever fix the tournament mode UI?

 

[bubbaking]

"UI"?

 

[SinisterB]

MITH8 BC CANADA TOP 3 02/9/12

1.Silent Wolf
2.Blunted_object10
3.Meta

dazrin with full results later, archives found here http://www.twitch.tv/projectmelee

PM starts here
GFs (20 minutes 28 seconds [47:34])

i'll do highlights later zzzZZzzzz

 

[BrandX]

Damn is Wolf that good?

 

[bubbaking]

It's just one tournament, lolz, but yeah Wolf is good. However, if we're going by number of tournaments won, I think Bowser has the lead for now.

 

[BrandX]

It's just one tournament, lolz, but yeah Wolf is good. However, if we're going by number of tournaments won, I think Bowser has the lead for now.

Wait what? Bowser seriously? He is winning tourneys?

I might have a reason to use him again after so many years.

 

[bubbaking]

Actually, looking at the data again, he's tied with Fox (who makes sense winning the most tourneys). However, Fox has been winning more notable tourneys. However, this recent tourney puts Wolf up there with Fox and Bowser.

Edit: By "notable" I'm going by tourney size (# of entrants) as well as the players in attendance. The Wolf victories have been at smaller tourneys, unless this recent one was larger, and they've all been Chillin, except for this one again.

 

[Juushichi]

Bowser's won at least three tournaments.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, he's won exactly three, and so have Fox and Wolf.

Lolz, the Bowser-victor tourneys have been even smaller (one of them had only 8 entrants ). So, I take everything back. Fox is very clearly in the lead here. He's been winning the most tournaments (tied with Wolf and Bowser right now) but his tournaments have been, by far, the largest and they've had the most respectable players in attendance. For now, Fox is pulling in the best results, with Wolf in a close second, and Bowser at third.

Edit: The Fox victories are also more notable because they're more varied; they have three different players winning their respective tourneys. Most of the Wolf victories have been by Chillin (at small tourneys) and most of the Bowser victories have been by Gimpy (at even smaller tourneys). In other words, Wolf and Bowser have just one player doing most of the work dominating their respective local scenes, which could lead to them being noticeable outliers, whereas Fox actually has a lot of rep in different regions (each Fox is from a different region) and much of it is doing well. The conclusion that can be arrived at, for now, is that Fox is 'dominating' (I use that term loosely, lolz) the overall P:M scene, whereas other chars are threats in their little 'pockets'.

Obviously, this is not surprising. Fox is broken.

 

[Juushichi]

Bowser has wins on Silentwolf (Wolf), Bladewise (Peach), Metroid (Ike/Zard), Tink (Fox/Sheik/Marth) and C!Z (Falco). That seems very significant.

Honestly, it seems like Mango's win is the true outlier for Fox. Wolf has had significant representation so far, though. In terms of talent level, though.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, I was looking strictly at chars who won tournaments. Of course, if we want to see chars who are generally doing well, we'd look more at wider top placements, but very few of these tourneys actually hit the 30-man mark, hence why I chose to look just at the actual winners.

If you say Mango is the outlier, that actually helps Fox's case because it leaves Fox with 2 more reps. If the same treatment is applied to Gimpy and Chillin, they suddenly have almost no rep.

But yeah, this kind of analysis is nowhere near conclusive. It's just something interesting to note...............for now.

Edit: Juu, did you make sure to check the brackets before making those claims? Just because Bowser out-placed those people doesn't mean he actually fought them. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just making sure.

 

[Juushichi]

Well, I was listing the characters/players Bowser beat to win a tournament.

The odd man out might be the Tink win though.

gimpy has personally beaten Bladewise, C!Z and SW multiple times. Kirk has the win on Metroid to win his tournament, iirc. Trail (second to Kels in GF) had to beat Tink to get to GF though. I didn't list Oro, who Kirk beat before losing to Metroid on the following result.

Edit: Removed Scythe. Scythe was the only person Kirk lost to.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, I personally am not familiar with who fought who. I want to make a case that Fox beat similarly significant people (and Mango's tourney was particularly large and stacked, containing such powerhouses as Kels, Vanz, and Rat), but I have neither the info nor the, well, desire to look that up. What I DO have.....is the time to start keeping a winnings chart! (^_^) My friend made one of these for Brawl and it ended up being used in the creation of the BBR's latest official tier list. I think such a list will actually a shed a lot of light on who's actually being the most successful, since the money won from a tourney reflects how many people were in the event.

In any case, it's probably more accurate and useful to keep a winnings chart then to try to keep track of 'who won the most' and 'whose tournament wins were the most notable'. Better to start now while the pool is somewhat small.....

 

[BrandX]

Jeeze now I want to try bowser again, sounds like he is bad*** in project M

 

[Overswarm]

Hey Overswarm, I'm curious. What was your position on the MBR banning KJ64 and RC (and before that, Poke Floats)? Brinstar is understandable because of hitboxes, and so is Jungle Japes.

I'm against any banning of stages because someone thinks something is "dumb" or "gay", and even more against banning stages because someone just looks at the stage and assumes they know how it works. I'm only for banning a stage when it can have clear and demonstrated tournament results of a negative fashion or at the very least video evidence of testing and friendlies that can be reproduced by others.

 

[bubbaking]

That.....didn't exactly answer the question, lolz.

 

[Diddy Kong]

bro
do you even lift

Late but:

 

[Overswarm]

That.....didn't exactly answer the question, lolz.

Yes it did. If there is tournament evidence, yes. If there wasn't, no. It works for situations I wasn't even a part of!

 

[metroid1117]

I'm glad people are finding the results archive to be helpful .

Also, Mew2King used Fox to win SWEET X, but the characters used for both 7th places aren't up yet.

 

[JOE!]

Jeeze now I want to try bowser again, sounds like he is bad*** in project M

*dude is winning tourneys? save me a seat on the bandwagon! *

 

[hotdogturtle]

wait a second... Are you sure the Homebrew you're trying to install is compatible with your System Menu? The Homebrew devs had to release a new version (and I think a new installation method) every time Nintendo updated the Wii's System Menu and effectively 'broke' the Homebrew hack for that time.

System menu 4.3 is almost 3 years old already, so that shouldn't be a problem for him.

 

[Jolteon]

Hey guys, really sorry about the lack of updates but the place we're hosting at (london anime con) has internet issues today and because of that we could not stream. However, I've been recording a few of the top sets which I will upload to youtube!

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yeah that's what I've got hdt

 

[leafbarrett]

Quick question: Does Fox really need a frame 7 move capable of easily killing under 100%?

 

[DrinkingFood]

why would you complain about that when he has a frame one move that can kill much lower than that?

Also somebody install homebrew on my wii for me
I just can't make it work.

 

[Vashimus]

Got Bison dollars?

 

[DrinkingFood]

only monopoly money
anybody got a conversion table for those

 

[DMG]

Tell me all of your secrets, grass


What brand SD card, how big, what formats you have tried, what .elf file you are using/redownload it/etc, try smashstack again, make pancakes walk the Dog I'M TRYING MAN I DUNNO WHY IT WON'T WORK, WE NEED A ROBOT WIZARD TO FIX IT

 

[DrinkingFood]

PNY 2GB SD card (This really should not be the problem, I use it for project m)
FAT with 64kb allocation, which the SDR guys told me to try (pretty sure I tried FAT32 with default allocation before as well)
using the boot.elf that comes with the hackmii installer
I've redownloaded that and the smashstack private folder more than half a dozen times now
on two different computers windows 8 and windows 7 respectively
I'm not a pancake person really, chocolate chip pancakes are where it's at though
and I wish I had my dog right now, I need comfort and I love my dog but she's at home an hour away and I'm at my dorm