Project M Social Thread

[MonkUnit]

What's the link for that wifi IRC? Not the PM irc...

you could try www.fsmash.org but its not very active. there is also www.xat.com/dabessdi which is much more active than fsmash.org

 

[thespymachine]

PMBR doesn't appear to be satisfied with this as the standard, there are plenty of things they clearly want to fix. This is assuming they would even want to experiment with anything once they've reached that point.

I wonder why they would want to include DACUS and b-reversals in PM then, if they didn't want to experiment with mechanics different than Melee's.

And: http://projectm.dantarion.com/about/
"PROJECT GOAL

Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects. It does not, however, intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone. The following is a list of the main aspects of Super Smash Bros. Melee that inspired and have carried over into Project M:
1. A fast-paced game
2. with flowing, natural movement
3. where the player has a great degree of control over his character due to the technical skill that he's achieved.
4. The balance of offense and defense changes depending on the exact matchup and playstyle, but overall tends to favor offense slightly.
5. Offstage edgeguarding is risky but rewarding, while on-stage edgeguarding is safer but less rewarding.
6. Recoveries generally require great skill to use, with the advantage usually being with the edgeguarding player, with some exceptions.
7. The combos are challenging and spontaneous, with anything longer than 2-3 hits requiring a knowledge of both characters' options and some degree of prediction and/or a deep understanding of the mental aspect of the game.

In short, Project M aims to capture the essence of what made Melee a truly great game in our eyes."

 

[DrinkingFood]

That's not an experiment, we already know how those affect gameplay since they were in brawl. Obviously they have less significance here since melee already has a lot in the way of movement options but they fit very neatly into melee's plethora of movement options and the effects of them are pretty clear from watching how they work in brawl. It's hardly an experiment. The same goes for RAR. Arbitrarily limiting edge grabs is an experiment. No game has ever featured such a mechanic. LGLs in brawl don't count, that's a rule not a game mechanic, and can be violated if both players violate it, and doesn't affect either player's abiities at any one time.

 

[thespymachine]

That's not an experiment, we already know how those affect gameplay since they were in brawl. Obviously they have less significance here since melee already has a lot in the way of movement options but they fit very neatly into melee's plethora of movement options and the effects of them are pretty clear from watching how they work in brawl. It's hardly an experiment. The same goes for RAR. Arbitrarily limiting edge grabs is an experiment. No game has ever featured such a mechanic. LGLs in brawl don't count, that's a rule not a game mechanic, and can be violated if both players violate it, and doesn't affect either player's abiities at any one time.

And no game has had ledges period, other than Smash. Shouldn't it be our job to experiment with what is good and bad with them?
True, a rule isn't a mechanic. But it's a rule wanting to make certain certain skills are tested. Is there a problem with having a mechanic test those same set of skills?
*shrug*

 

[DrinkingFood]

How does smash being the only significant series/games with edges (there are others) make anything our job? That's a terrible argument.

I never said there was a problem with anything. I told you how Project:M is being made. If there's a problem, it would be up to you to determine that unlimited ledge grabbing was it, not up to me to defend something that's already the standard in smash without even having someone tell me what the issue with it is. And if you could successfully do that, how on earth would you convince anyone that the only or best solution is to just universally restrict it rather than handle it on a case by case basis for each character? The number of times someone can grab the ledge isn't the only way to nerf ledges...

 

[Oro?!]

Thanks Monk I was looking for the dabessdi link specifically.

 

[thespymachine]

How does smash being the only significant series/games with edges (there are others) make anything our job? That's a terrible argument.

There are other games? That have grabbale ledges?
I'm simply stating that if there aren't any (or very many) games that have such a mechanic, that means there isn't much experimentation with said mechanic. It would be good to see the effects of the experiment.

I never said there was a problem with anything. I told you how Project:M is being made. If there's a problem, it would be up to you to determine that unlimited ledge grabbing was it, not up to me to defend something that's already the standard in smash without even having someone tell me what the issue with it is. And if you could successfully do that, how on earth would you convince anyone that the only or best solution is to just universally restrict it rather than handle it on a case by case basis for each character? The number of times someone can grab the ledge isn't the only way to nerf ledges...

I suppose the problem would be that there currently is a distinction between tethering the ledge and grabbing it when it comes to how many times you can do so before touching ground.
I realize my suggestion could be ridiculous, but we don't really know what the affect will be. Experimenting is a good thing, especially since we're in demo mode still.

 

[`dazrin]

Hey guys, im gonna be streaming in about an hour or so. Gonna be live on http://twitch.tv/dazee_ so check it out ^_^

I'll be streaming tomorrow as well as a bc tournament on Saturday ft. Silentwolf, sion, yakal, bluntedobject10 and others. the tournament will be streamed on the official project m livestream channel, http://twitch.tv/projectmelee so follow both those channels to join in on the stream fun ^_^

 

[Oro?!]

My boy Sion gonna do work.

 

[Yakal]

Not this time.

 

[ph00tbag]

Just make grabbing the ledge grant less invincibility for each ledgegrab before landing.

Doneskies.

Drinkingfood being proud of his closed-mindedness, as usual.

 

[`dazrin]

Live now! BluntedObject10 vs RobyExtreme atm

http://twitch.tv/dazee_

 

[leafbarrett]

Just make grabbing the ledge grant less invincibility for each ledgegrab before landing.

Doneskies.

Drinkingfood being proud of his closed-mindedness, as usual.

Compromise: After x number of continuous ledgegrabs (3 seems to be a reasonable number), invincibility time will decrease for each successive ledgegrab.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@Phoot
I'm just not so open minded that I pretend there aren't actual answers to things. Also, I actually ask for a little back-up when somebody makes a claim rather than just accepting it.

@Thespy
That TMNT fighting game had grabbable ledges iirc. The smash-esque one that had health bars, I mean. That's why I specified significant though, since nobody really plays that game. It was a formal distinction at the most.
Anyway, experimentation is for the playtesters. Once it gets to us, it's much less experimental, granted it can still change and does, but not nearly as much or as often. We only get a release every 8-14 months or so, changing a mechanic drastically like that might seriously affect the development of the metagame. Yes, some strategies revolve around briefly stalling to get the opponent to do something risky. There's nothing more gay or wrong or in need of change about doing it on the ledge than there is about Puff spamming bairs. It's not a problem right now and doesn't need a change. If it becomes a problem, then maybe something will need to be adjusted, but that hasn't happened yet. People seem to be inventing a problem that doesn't seems to almost never affect anything.

 

[leafbarrett]

There's nothing more gay or wrong or in need of change about doing it on the ledge than there is about Puff spamming bairs.

If one move dominates a character's gameplay, that's a problem. Jiggly's bair is just silly.
EDIT: Is Smashboards giving a lot of errors for anyone else, or is it just me?

 

[DrinkingFood]

it constantly tries to double post for me, giving me a "you must wait 30 seconds" notice but posting it anyway.

also yeah jiggs was a bad example, think projectile camping instead.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

This discussion is ridiculous.

 

[Jolteon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAey_jpB-4Q

 

[DMG]

I TOLD YOU, SHEIK IS GOOD MOTHER ****ERS

mother ****erssss

 

[Jolteon]

People thought Sheik was bad?

 

[DMG]

People want to put Bowser and Pit above her, put it that way

 

[Jolteon]

Never sleep on Sheik.

Unless you main PAL Peach.

 

[leafbarrett]

This discussion is ridiculous.

Smash Bros is ridiculous. What's your point? :3

 

[bubbaking]

I'm only here to ask GHNeko what happened to those P:M videos of me and my boy, Xzax, from East Coast Elites? Are we ever going to have them?

 

[Jolteon]

You have to wait for Marvel videos, first.

 

[Tmacc]

People want to put Bowser and Pit above her, put it that way

Bowser is like, the best character though.

 

[bubbaking]

The only characters who deserve to be above Sheik are the spacees and maybe Diddy.

When's Marvel?

 

[Vashimus]

The only characters who deserve to be above Sheik are the spacees and maybe Diddy.

Dafuq? For real Bubba?

 

[bubbaking]

You really don't know how broken Diddy is. He has every tool a competitive Smasher could possibly want and I'm starting to think he might turn into this version's '2.1 Lucario'. All the time I've spent not in this thread was mostly used playing with Diddy at smashfests and with friends. The char's stupid.

Unrelated: It's reeeaaaaally annoying when Zard dthrows a spacee and gets shined for it. That move got turned from a great tool to something really weird. I understand the char got mostly buffed, but that just seemed like a really weird thing to 'randomly' nerf (I know it wasn't random and I know WHY it was nerfed, but the reasoning wasn't really that major tbh).

 

[Overswarm]

I see him being decent, but not super good. I've played a lot of diddy opponents in Brawl and am no longer really surprised by banana or platform tricks anymore. His recovery is a lot better, but he still doesn't have a legitimate approach that you can't just shield and punish or just hit him out of, even with L-canceling.

I'd have to see more Diddy to make a more valid opinion on him, but I just don't see him overcoming some of his threats.

 

[Jolteon]

He has every tool a competitive Smasher could possibly want.

Diddy has a shine?

 

[ELI-mination]

You really don't know how broken Diddy is. He has every tool a competitive Smasher could possibly want and I'm starting to think he might turn into this version's '2.1 Lucario'. All the time I've spent not in this thread was mostly used playing with Diddy at smashfests and with friends. The char's stupid.

Diddy is not broken or stupid. He's a well designed brand new character. The fact that 2.5 has been out for only a couple of months and you are calling Diddy broken is laughable.

 

[batistabus]

The fact that 2.5 has been out for only a couple of months and you are calling Diddy broken is laughable.

Leffen said that 10 minutes after 2.5 was released lol

 

[ELI-mination]

Leffen said that 10 minutes after 2.5 was released lol

I rest my case.

 

[bubbaking]

It only took me a week after 2.1's release to realize that Lucario was broken (look at my first tier list on Smods). It took everyone else, like, half a year. Not everyone has to be slow to recognize something, Eli.

I see him being decent, but not super good. I've played a lot of diddy opponents in Brawl and am no longer really surprised by banana or platform tricks anymore. His recovery is a lot better, but he still doesn't have a legitimate approach that you can't just shield and punish or just hit him out of, even with L-canceling.

I'd have to see more Diddy to make a more valid opinion on him, but I just don't see him overcoming some of his threats.

I'm not even talking about bananas. I don't even know how to use those things well, outside of dictating tech-chases (when they're on the floor) and my Diddy has been doing fairly well. "Just shield and punish"? How do you shield a fast-moving command grab? Diddy also doesn't have to approach against most of the cast, and if you really played against Brawl Diddy a lot, then you know this too.

Diddy has a shine?

Oh, my bad. 'Every tool except the best possible one.'

 

[DMG]

I just don't... see it? Like elaborate a bit on why Diddy would be broken. Even if people reliably get Side B Popup --> AGT --> Attack combo's down (which heavily depends on their DI % and weight/fast fall status), he has way too many flaws to be doing that great.

Side B approaching loses to plenty of Nair/quick aerial responses. You ain't scaring Sheik, Luigi, Spacies, etc by doing that. If you are close enough range, doing a JC grab at them is probably quicker and safer.


Also, Squirtle moment of the day. I think that Squirtle's throw game is too subpar, and that outside of killing with Dthrow and occasionally getting a hit/regrab out of Uthrow (usually not twice due to his massive sliding), he's subpar in this area. Getting a grab on someone does not feel rewarding and this becomes very frustrating quickly. I would please look into giving his Uthrow better IASA frames/less cooldown, so that even if he can't CG with it well he can at least hit people afterwards better. Ironically enough, with bad DI Dthrow feels like a better combo throw and that's just ****in silly lol. Am I the only one who thinks this?

 

[Overswarm]

I see him being decent, but not super good. I've played a lot of diddy opponents in Brawl and am no longer really surprised by banana or platform tricks anymore. His recovery is a lot better, but he still doesn't have a legitimate approach that you can't just shield and punish or just hit him out of, even with L-canceling.

I'd have to see more Diddy to make a more valid opinion on him, but I just don't see him overcoming some of his threats.

 

[ELI-mination]

It only took me a week after 2.1's release to realize that Lucario was broken (look at my first tier list on Smods). It took everyone else, like, half a year. Not everyone has to be slow to recognize something, Eli.

Ness is extremely broken. Took me all of the 5 seconds of typing up this post to recognize.



I'm wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy ahead of the curve.

 

[Kink-Link5]

A bubbaking forrowwhip boromped about in a most frulicious manner,
Bubbarubba bubbarubba
It went, and the pallywhops did garp

 

[DMG]

My friends curse at me for picking Ness and doing gay stuff with him.



Disclaimer: it's Wifi.