Project M Social Thread

[Kink-Link5]

#flamewheelmasterrace

 

[BrandX]

#flamewheelmasterrace

I kept doing that against my friend, he got so angry XD.

Then he picked squirtle :|

 

[Kink-Link5]

ZSS is even worse to deal with it. Down B is super frustrating for a character focused on antiairs and air followups, especially since even if she does get hit, she just gets the down b back again.

 

[BrandX]

ZSS is even worse to deal with it. Down B is super frustrating for a character focused on antiairs and air followups, especially since even if she does get hit, she just gets the down b back again.

Wow, sounds pretty nasty especially with her mobility

 

[hotdogturtle]

So apparently Project M cannot be played on a Wii.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=148068&page=1

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Lmao.

Oh, Lord. Not sure if that guy is serious.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Overswarm]

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PYWCKRW

Everyone take this

 

[#HBC | Joker]

So apparently Project M cannot be played on a Wii.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=148068&page=1

Am I stoned, or is that guy trolling?

 

[GunBlaze]

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PYWCKRW

Everyone take this

Done on its entirety

 

[DMG]

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PYWCKRW

Everyone take this

Can you take it multiple times for multiple characters?

 

[Overswarm]

Can you take it multiple times for multiple characters?

Yes. You'd need to use a new browser or clear cookies or something of the sort though (incognito mode maybe?). I'd just prefer that people do it for characters that they feel they know the best though.

I play Pit, Bowser, Snake, Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, and half a dozen others, but I'd probably only respond to this for Pit and Bowser as they are my primary characters at the moment and I spend equal amounts of time with both.

 

[DMG]

I'm only limiting it to my core 2-3 characters, no worries

 

[standardtoaster]

why isn't there a n/a for the tier question? I haven't played against or as at least half the characters. I wouldn't know how those characters do.

 

[Overswarm]

why isn't there a n/a for the tier question? I haven't played against or as at least half the characters. I wouldn't know how those characters do.

You should just be able to leave those blank, but regardless it is an opinion question and most people seem to have an opinion on the cast. It's not going to be exact science, just an opinion poll.

 

[Jolteon]

If I took that test I would probably be considered an anomaly, LOL.

 

[DMG]

I did not put a character into F tier, because as hopeless as I find some of these characters I don't consider any of them "joke" characters or completely void of anything good. All of my "bad" characters were given the D tier rating, and I hope not to see a bunch of F ratings given out. I'd restrict it to literally the worst or 2 worst characters you see.

 

[Jolteon]

http://twitch.tv/jolte0n

Streaming PM.

 

[Oro?!]

Even my D tier pool was rather limited. with the biggest pool of characters obviously belonging in C/B tiers.

 

[Slashy]

Why is Lylat Cruise missing, but Halberd is selectable? I don't see why Brawl's counterpicks aren't being tried out in competitive play.

I don't mind P:M replacing stages, but I hope that a majority of the stages they replace either cannot be fixed easily or are generally seen as awful stages.

 

[Overswarm]

I just did Page 1. I'll do Page 2 at a later date, but it'd vastly increase the size of the survey.

 

[Slashy]

I just did Page 1. I'll do Page 2 at a later date, but it'd vastly increase the size of the survey.

I would like a counterpick stage survey, maybe with current P:M stages and some potential added ones, here's a sample list

Pokemon Stadium
Delfino Plaza
Battleship Halberd
Fourside
Onett
Wifi Waiting Room
Rainbow Ride
Brinstar
Mute City
Yoshi's Story 64 (no clouds)
Pictochat:M
Luigi's Mansion+ (passthrough mansion floor)
Pirate Ship+ (no water, bombs, ship never hits the tornado)
Port Town Aero Dive (no wall, no cars, edges on transportation platform)
Bowser's Castle
Frigate Orpheon (Fixed ledge)
New Pork City+
Summit:M (frozen, no icy platforms, no ice wall/ceiling)

 

[iLink]

It's kind of hard for me to judge some of these. For instance, I'm generally content with using Lucario on Yoshi's Story unless I'm up against like Marth or Bowser, in which case I wouldn't go near that stage.

 

[Stevo]

I would love to try a Brinstar with stationary lava. I think that would be cool. Like about an up-b's length below the ledge.

 

[bubbaking]

So you want a Brinstar that ALWAYS saves you from dying at the bottom?

I did not put a character into F tier, because as hopeless as I find some of these characters I don't consider any of them "joke" characters or completely void of anything good. All of my "bad" characters were given the D tier rating, and I hope not to see a bunch of F ratings given out. I'd restrict it to literally the worst or 2 worst characters you see.

Yeah, I can only see P:M having four tiers at most. If S is your Top Tier, then most of the chars should be in A or B Tier, IMO. No one deserves to be below C (D if A is your Top), and even my own personal C Tier has only one character in it.

Why is Lylat Cruise missing, but Halberd is selectable? I don't see why Brawl's counterpicks aren't being tried out in competitive play.

I don't mind P:M replacing stages, but I hope that a majority of the stages they replace either cannot be fixed easily or are generally seen as awful stages.

Lylat's a pretty terrible stage (in a P:M environment). It tilts and it 'battlefields' even harder than Melee Battlefield does. IIRC, the blastzones are also pretty wonky. The amount of space between the visible limits and the actual blastzone limits (the magnifying glass area) is much different from most other stages. It's either too small or too large, but that's really not important. What's important is how the stage tilts while being as flat as a board. I believe the Arwings can also attack you at certain points offstage, but maybe that feature was removed.

 

[Stevo]

So you want a Brinstar that ALWAYS saves you from dying at the bottom?

Yes
a Brinstar that alwasy "saves" you.

You can always follow up a lava hit

 

[Slashy]

So you want a Brinstar that ALWAYS saves you from dying at the bottom?



Yeah, I can only see P:M having four tiers at most. If S is your Top Tier, then most of the chars should be in A or B Tier, IMO. No one deserves to be below C (D if A is your Top), and even my own personal C Tier has only one character in it.



Lylat's a pretty terrible stage (in a P:M environment). It tilts and it 'battlefields' even harder than Melee Battlefield does. IIRC, the blastzones are also pretty wonky. The amount of space between the visible limits and the actual blastzone limits (the magnifying glass area) is much different from most other stages. It's either too small or too large, but that's really not important. What's important is how the stage tilts while being as flat as a board. I believe the Arwings can also attack you at certain points offstage, but maybe that feature was removed.

The ships never attack you.

I don't think that TOs should be discouraged from more varied counterpick stages, and I feel a greater variety of counterpick options potentially adds a great deal of more depth and can greatly change competitive viability. I think it is worth researching into.

I think we can base information off of previous Smash games of some obvious don't, but we don't know how Delfino, Pictochat, and Wifi Waiting Room will affect the metagame.

It is why I'd like the stage roster expansion code to be added if possible, so there can be a greater potential for competitive depth and give the vets/pros new venues for training

 

[DMG]

I think that's a little gracious Bubba. I feel like if your A-B tiers are that huge, that you honestly can't compare some of the lower characters in the spread to the higher ones. Like if Falcon and Ness made it into B tier, they aren't really comparable viability wise even if you have G&W or someone bad in C tier. That's compressing things a bit too much imo.

 

[Slashy]

There is stage banning and even then for counterpick stages both players.

It does affect matchups but there is an extent that players would need to train on stages, develop new stages or decide carefully on stage bans

 

[Slashy]

SWF mobile double posted for me

 

[DMG]

I'm fine with more CPing options, but not if they look like Skyloft, SSE Jungle, Rumble Falls, Onett, etc. I don't agree with adding them for the sake of giving characters strong CP's.

 

[Slashy]

I'm fine with more CPing options, but not if they look like Skyloft, SSE Jungle, Rumble Falls, Onett, etc. I don't agree with adding them for the sake of giving characters strong CP's.

I really don't want more battlefield clones either.

I don't think that more CPs should be added to help a specific character, they should be added to create more variations in gameplay and strategies

 

[bubbaking]

There's no way Skyloft is any worse than Lylat, though. Skyloft doesn't move. It's 'weird' format is just different, same with all the other fairly standard unique stages, like YiB. Lylat, on the other hand.......that stage is constantly shifting, making a mess of everyone's games both on- and off-stage.

Edit: Heck, even RF is better than Lylat. You just have to be wary of allowing mobile super-heavies or extreme campers take you there.

 

[Oro?!]

I feel like you are being too gracious as well Bubba, especially with the way that the survey posed how to rate the characters into the tiers. C and above being tournament viable. I really don't think every character currently is, do you?

 

[DMG]

It's more the size I'm worried about, than how it looks. I'm very wary of bigger stages because of the camping factor.

 

[SunJester]

Lylat is a bloody awful stage, I absolutely loathe it.

I think in the long run though this game would benefit from having a smaller stage list with varied counter-picks. Getting rid of any stages that have a huge advantage for a certain character. Also stages with actual differences in them and not just a million stages with the triangle 3 platform layout (I think there's enough already in the game)

Also on the subject of tiers (if we're comparing to the Melee tier list) I don't believe any character in this game is below Melee C tier, in fact, I would say that most of the characters belong in either A or B tier. I think even Game and Watch is tournament viable, he just has hard counter picks. I mean, if someone can take Pikachu and become one of the best in the country at Melee, I'm sure someone could do the same with PM's Game and Watch, and have less trouble doing so.

All the characters are tournament viable, but not all the characters will receive tournament use.

 

[SNPR]

Hi guys, we're playing project: M tonight!
http://www.twitch.tv/sniperfox1

 

[Overswarm]

It's more the size I'm worried about, than how it looks. I'm very wary of bigger stages because of the camping factor.

I'm going to be testing the camping factor myself on a few stages. ^_^

What characters do you think are the prime "worry" characters for camping?

Despite the additions of Pit and Sonic, I still think Fox is going to be the guy to worry about.

 

[Slashy]

I'm trying to get something big done for the community, anyone interested please come in the IRC chat

 

[DMG]

Anyone with good keepaway or mobility. If the stage is bad enough, it can extend from a subset of characters into MU's that are "I move around better than you, good luck". Example being say Squirtle. He probably won't time someone out on a "normal" stage, but I can easily see him giving someone a much harder time on Skyloft/Jungle/Falls/etc. Or take a MU with two relatively "slow" characters like Peach Ganon. But give Peach a ton of room/platform area to work with and suddenly the MU gets ugly for no good reason. Abuse AGT with TL to boost yourself to places/get away.

If you play Sheik or Fox or xyz character that tends to have a solid time going in, you probably don't care what big *** stage people might pick to get a bit more breathing room. Link or TL or a character that likes some breathing room, they may love the stages, but realistically you probably won't make a dent vs some of your worse MU's on the stage because eventually they will get you (or turn the tables on you for picking more room, by getting the lead and then making you approach). Meanwhile, Captain Falcon vs Dedede becomes a nightmare for him to catch.

That's why I'm not a fan of bigger stages, because it's veryyyy easy to slip from "Zoners and Projectile users and people wanting just a tad more room get a boost" into "Camping nightmare". The line is quite thin sometimes, and that's a big reason why I'm more in favor of scrapping most of them entirely and experimenting with different stage layouts of a much smaller size to begin with. I don't see the benefit of including a lot of these stages in the "initial" part of the metagame, which will 90% end up getting scrapped as people abuse them for the CP instead of "fair" MU's like Mario vs Link, and all after we've spent so much time trying to play on them and make characters competitive on them. I'd rather never be able to find the perfect Ness CP, than try to come up with one and also lopside 60-70% of MU's towards the more mobile character.

 

[Slashy]

Anyone with good keepaway or mobility. If the stage is bad enough, it can extend from a subset of characters into MU's that are "I move around better than you, good luck". Example being say Squirtle. He probably won't time someone out on a "normal" stage, but I can easily see him giving someone a much harder time on Skyloft/Jungle/Falls/etc. Or take a MU with two relatively "slow" characters like Peach Ganon. But give Peach a ton of room/platform area to work with and suddenly the MU gets ugly for no good reason. Abuse AGT with TL to boost yourself to places/get away.

If you play Sheik or Fox or xyz character that tends to have a solid time going in, you probably don't care what big *** stage people might pick to get a bit more breathing room. Link or TL or a character that likes some breathing room, they may love the stages, but realistically you probably won't make a dent vs some of your worse MU's on the stage because eventually they will get you (or turn the tables on you for picking more room, by getting the lead and then making you approach). Meanwhile, Captain Falcon vs Dedede becomes a nightmare for him to catch.

That's why I'm not a fan of bigger stages, because it's veryyyy easy to slip from "Zoners and Projectile users and people wanting just a tad more room get a boost" into "Camping nightmare". The line is quite thin sometimes, and that's a big reason why I'm more in favor of scrapping most of them entirely and experimenting with different stage layouts of a much smaller size to begin with. I don't see the benefit of including a lot of these stages in the "initial" part of the metagame, which will 90% end up getting scrapped as people abuse them for the CP instead of "fair" MU's like Mario vs Link, and all after we've spent so much time trying to play on them and make characters competitive on them. I'd rather never be able to find the perfect Ness CP, than try to come up with one and also lopside 60-70% of MU's towards the more mobile character.

I get your point, which is why I think big stages like rumble falls should be reserved for doubles

Do you hate Pictochat or Delfino Plaza