JOE!
Smash Hero
Welp, my Wii seems to not like the Brawl Disk anymore...
There any info floating around on how exactly to like, USB load or such?
There any info floating around on how exactly to like, USB load or such?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
- Start date
- Status
If you want any advice:
Don't rely on rolling so much. It's a very bad habit a lot of new players cling on to and can be hard to get rid of. The end of a roll is very vulnerable and a good player will often bait or predict them and punish you for it. Don't be afraid to shield if you need to and use your mobility to avoid attacks. Not to say you shouldn't roll at all, there are times when it is an appropriate choice, just try to avoid it being you default tool of avoiding attacks.
Speaking of shielding, don't forget you can shield grab. Just press A while having your shield up and it'll cancel into a grab. This is used to punish people that hit your shield with something slow and unsafe.
Don't wavedash if you don't need to. It's fine to do now just to practice it a little and its always fun to keep trying something new you just learned, but down the line you will will get punished for just throwing it around when you don't need to, since it has a few frames at the start that you can't act during.
As far as Snake goes, some of his best tools are his grabs and explosives. You can control a decent part of the stage with his down smash and downb as well as having attacks that can knock opponents into them such as his front/back throw or forward tilt. His up throw is also particularly good for combos and setting up C4 sticks.
Yeah. Friend of mine setup USB load for PM. Brawl ISO with Ocarina codes basically.
Configurable USB loader, Brawl ISO, and PM codes on SD card basically like Gecko. Turn on Ocarina codes in the settings, load it up, and run that bad boy.
Configurable USB loader, Brawl ISO, and PM codes on SD card basically like Gecko. Turn on Ocarina codes in the settings, load it up, and run that bad boy.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
BrandX, you don't play with tap jump off, do you? If not, that's great! It means you can perform upB OoS (Out of Shield) using the easiest method. 
This is somewhat of an advanced tactic, so I wouldn't suggest putting too much time and effort into learning this, but if someone hits your shield with something unsafe but not unsafe enough to punish with a shieldgrab, you can press upB while you're shielding and Snake will pop out of his shield with his electric Cypher. Since the Cypher can be cancelled into attacks almost immediately, you can use this to combo opponents who pressure your shield badly.
Don't worry about it too much now but keep it in mind. This is one of Snake's unique strengths and is something you should keep in mind if you actually plan to main Snake. Obviously, more info on this can be found/discussed in the Snake sub-forum.
This is somewhat of an advanced tactic, so I wouldn't suggest putting too much time and effort into learning this, but if someone hits your shield with something unsafe but not unsafe enough to punish with a shieldgrab, you can press upB while you're shielding and Snake will pop out of his shield with his electric Cypher. Since the Cypher can be cancelled into attacks almost immediately, you can use this to combo opponents who pressure your shield badly.Don't worry about it too much now but keep it in mind. This is one of Snake's unique strengths and is something you should keep in mind if you actually plan to main Snake. Obviously, more info on this can be found/discussed in the Snake sub-forum.
JOE!
Smash Hero
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
I'm loving how that works, especially with ROB. Getting a grab under a platform with a gryo on it pretty much guarantees a link into almost anything if it's not super slow. But even slow things can work, depending on the situation. Hell, I've even gotten weird things like dropping a gyro from high up, landing a bair, having their knockback reset when bair knocks them into the gyro, then being able to follow up. ****'s so fun... new knockback stacking>>>old knockback stacking any day
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
You can go to the Project M IRC for help with that.Cool, think you could PM me more info on how to exactly set that all up?
I was thinking of making a basic flowchart kind of thing with instructions so people can try to troubleshoot before going to the IRC for help. Not sure if it'd be that helpful though.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Get Pimp my Wii to get all the missing IOS's, then follow this guide
http://gwht.wikidot.com/usb-loader
Of course you have to promise to use it responsibly and just keep one back up of a game you own and not pirate anything like a naughty pirate!
Of course you can always buy a game from gramestop, make a copy of it, then return it to gamestop for a full refund, all very legally.
Tried setting up USB loader a while back. It's so easy to **** up I swear to god. Well at least if you're trying to work GC games.
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
Thanks to DIOS MIOS, it ain't that hard anymore
Stevo
Smash Champion
someone get in the lab with wizzrobe and figure out if Sonic's spin spin stuff is really as good as Wizzrobe makes it look like! I want proof before I start to get angry about it lol.
Get underneath a platform (like on Stadium 2 or something) and try to camp with it. Only time and experience will tell.
MaxThunder
PM Support
Can't sonic shield out of spin charge?..You might wanna post these on the Snake sub-forum for critique.
Just wondering: Can't Wario just sideB if he sees Sonic charging the spin? I don't play either of those chars, but I was thinking that the sideB charge would out-prioritize the spin and catch any rolls or jumps. Just speculating, y'know...
Sonic can wavedash backward at any time during his Down-B, preventing "just throwing out a long-lasting hitbox" from being a solution. Also, Wario Forward-B doesn't even start to clank with Sonic Down-B until about halfway through the run (the hitbox starts small and gets bigger as more distance is covered), so Sonic has all the time in the world to...just move backward for a split-second, shield it, etc.Can't sonic shield out of spin charge?..
Stevo
Smash Champion
anyone tried using a good side-step against sonic's spin?
It should lose to a lot of options--Blast Attack (safe, non-homing Neutral-B), stopping and turning around with another Down-B, wavedash -> whatever...
Still, the potential issues are in Sonic's ability to run away and Down-B's polarization (why use anything else in neutral position?). The easy-mode combos are just icing on the cake and might not be of much concern.
Stevo
Smash Champion
yeah I agree. Sonic's A moves seem pretty cool, but it seems like there is little reason to use them. Also, run away to side-b (edit: or is it down-b? lol) repeat should not be the optimal strategy lol.
It's a hard balance to strike, making his B moves useful, but not too polarizing as you said.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
It's funny. The PMBR completely changed his sideB because his specials were overcentralizing. Doesn't look like it changed much.
Tbh, I don't mind overcentralizing specials, because every time I start to have a problem with it, I just look at the spacees. 
A lot of the characters are overcentralized around something tho.
Imo, not that many characters are well rounded and use their whole moveset, but rather rely on a few moves more than anything else.
Imo, not that many characters are well rounded and use their whole moveset, but rather rely on a few moves more than anything else.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Except for Lucario........imo. 
Almost all top tier characters utilize their grabs, tilts, smash attacks, specials, and aerials in combos, edgeguarding, tech-chases and mix-ups. I think that Sonic, and to a lesser extent the spacees, are really the only ones have one or two moves that would dramatically affect their metagame.
Oracle
Smash Master
Name another character who's gameplay is as overcentralized as sonic
No one is arguing that characters are as overcentralized as Sonic.
I'm just saying that imo, a lot of the characters revolve heavily around a few moves. They can make extensive use of their movesets, but really, those few moves are their go to BnB moves.
Ike and QD.
Sonic and Spindash.
Spacies and Shine.
Jiggs and Bair.
Falcon and Knee.
Snake and C4.
D3 and Grab.
Bowser and Up B.
just to name a few. And I'm only using one move as an example. I could list another move for all those characters.
I'm just saying that imo, a lot of the characters revolve heavily around a few moves. They can make extensive use of their movesets, but really, those few moves are their go to BnB moves.
Ike and QD.
Sonic and Spindash.
Spacies and Shine.
Jiggs and Bair.
Falcon and Knee.
Snake and C4.
D3 and Grab.
Bowser and Up B.
just to name a few. And I'm only using one move as an example. I could list another move for all those characters.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
For Snake, I'd say it could easily be Cypher, tbh.
1winged @ngel, Falco is easily as centralized around his specials as Sonic is. Between lasers and aerial > shines for everything from shield pressure to combos, it's hard to use your specials as heavily as Falco does. Sonic just happened to reach that level; that's all.
1winged @ngel, Falco is easily as centralized around his specials as Sonic is. Between lasers and aerial > shines for everything from shield pressure to combos, it's hard to use your specials as heavily as Falco does. Sonic just happened to reach that level; that's all.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
You forgot Squirtle and Shades.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Squirtle is one of those few chars I believe has a very good use for most, if not all, of his moves. In fact, he seems to be difficult to use unless you make good use of everything he has to offer, similar to Samus in Melee and Pikachu in vBrawl.
RaphaelRobo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,833
Maybe, but Squirtle gameplay is still dominated by his Shades.
Oracle
Smash Master
None of those characters are even close to overcentralized. Obviously some characters are going to have moves that are better than some of their other moves in some situations. But besides sonic, there isn't a character on that list that can only use that move and still have results. Wizzrobe didn't use any other moves outside of combos and got 2nd in a stacked tournament. If you went into a tournament spamming any of those other moves in place until your opponent did something, you would get destroyed.
Sonic is a pretty tough character for the pmbr to design because of his ridiculous speed. Its hard to make him balanced without giving him a bunch of terrible moves because his bait/punish game is going to already be ridiculous from his dashdance. I think other than the down B oversight sethlon and the pmbr did a really good job with the character, considering what he was given to work with, and I encourage the other sonic player to not just down B in place and to try his other attacks.
Sonic is a pretty tough character for the pmbr to design because of his ridiculous speed. Its hard to make him balanced without giving him a bunch of terrible moves because his bait/punish game is going to already be ridiculous from his dashdance. I think other than the down B oversight sethlon and the pmbr did a really good job with the character, considering what he was given to work with, and I encourage the other sonic player to not just down B in place and to try his other attacks.
Translucent
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 20, 2012
- Messages
- 354
With squirtle, you just have to abuse the heck out of his mobility and use different attacks and different hydroplanes to mix things up.
Vashimus
Smash Master
It's times like these where I wish Sheik's chain tethered like in Brawl. Yeah yeah, I know. Because Melee. But at least there was some use for the damn thing. I wanna know WTF Sakurai was smoking when he made that move originally.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ummm, how many lasers does Falco throw out compared to his other moves? Same goes for shines? It may not LOOK like it's as bad as Sonic's stuff because lasers are kinda subtle (kinda) and shines are just.......idk, they go naturally with all his crap, but Falco is just as bad as Sonic.
Edit: DownB really isn't an oversight. What else would you give to Sonic in place of a flexible spin dash?
Edit: DownB really isn't an oversight. What else would you give to Sonic in place of a flexible spin dash?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well it's not only "because Melee". If Sheik's chain could tether the ledge, her recovery would go from decent to too good compared to other P:M chars, especially when given her already 'good character' status.
Stevo
Smash Champion
Falcon and knee is not a good example.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
I guess it depends on what over-centralization is to you. The way I see it, a character can be overcentralized when a single move or two become so integral to their high level game that you wont win without heavy use of those moves. Their winning strategies revolve around those moves or use them as a platform.
tbh, I wouldn't even call, "being able to win with only one or two moves" over-centralization in itself. Its the result of 1or 2 moves being that good and the rest of the moveset not being able to keep up results in the over-centralization that I'm talking about actually.
It's like Roy in Melee. He revolved around abuse of dtilt and DED because those were his best moves, because the rest of his character was subpar. It was necessary to use these moves to win, else you couldnt.
Sonic's other attacks and approaches lose pretty easily to most hitboxes. That's the issue with Sonic: you aren't given a sword or long legs or some cool approach. You're given "spin to win". Being in spin in neutral is your best option overall. If something doesn't work out, they shield it or don't get hit as you fly by, then roll or run or spin away and reset over and over until it works. On bigger stages, good luck! Pray your character can stop it lol. People in PM seem to love their big stages, and this is partly why I don't. I don't want Sonic Pit Fox or some blah blah blah running a marathon lol.
To be fair, watch some of Wizzrobe's sets in the middle of Combo's. There was one moment vs Strong Bad on Metal Cavern, where he does this like 0-40 combo and does it flawlessly because of like a weak HA cancel or something? And he hovers up, gets the hit, wavelands perfectly, gets the jab to grab. That kind of stuff is really hype and shows that he definitely put more time into Sonic than just "sitting there". And I don't blame him, because if my character always lost to Sex Kicks projectiles swords random jabs or tilts, etc I probably wouldn't rush in trying to have fun and abuse the fact that my character dictates when to go in by an overwhelming margin vs most of the cast.
The issue with Sonic is that I think the way people "envisioned" his strengths being used weren't totally realized. Like, I think most people saw Sonic and you start off with the baseline of his speed. Sonic is known for being fast in games, people expect that and want it. So you start there and you look to balance this kind of speed. He can't be Captain Falcon + Marth rolled up into one, he's gotta have weaknesses. Naturally one of them would be range/priority. Was like that in Brawl, seems to fit him. Wouldn't make sense for a fast spinning ball to always beat Peach Nair and just curbstomp the cast. Fine.
What people then saw, was that due to how difficult it was going to be to go directly in with Sonic, he needed the ability to mix up, bait, and also have some flexibility on where his combos can go. It would be lame to play a character that has to work very hard to get inside, and then all he gets is 20%. Never comes close to a 0-death or even a good tech chase scenario. So Sonic has some of this sprinkled in.
Now, imagine a scale from 1-10. The scale is the opponent's general awareness of when or where Sonic is going to approach them (and I don't mean awareness as in experience vs Sonic, I mean awareness as in what is the reasonable likely hood that he's gonna go in and that you won't be blindsided by it because "generally" the character will go in because of xyz and you see xyz).
1 means literally no clue, 10 means you are M2K robot mode have the hard read on him and he will just ****in die lol. I think you guys imagined that, in general gameplay, the opponent would usually be at a 5-6. That Sonic would work towards a possible 50-50 or less, or that his mixup/bait/approaching potential would allow him to have a real success rate near half the time.
The issue? That 5-6 rating was based on the assumption that Sonic was somewhat predisposed towards going in, or that there were "signals" in his movement or options or xyz that would let people know "Ok stuff is probably gonna go down soon". As we learned, we underestimated the impact of how space and mobility of other characters comes into play during this time. We had a rough idea of how well Sonic would do IF you were expecting him to dash or spin or approach in, as in "Oh he's relatively close and he's in spin, approach is 80% likely". What we didn't factor in is how well Sonic would actually do if the OPPONENT, not Sonic, was approaching in or trying to get closer, and the space aspect was also hard to understand. That rating is more like a 2-3.
It's easy to Peach Nair Sonic as he comes by you. But try moving towards him, getting closer to the danger zone, and telling me you'll be able to on reaction Nair him out of it or know when exactly he will release and touch your character in xyz frames lol. Plenty of characters have hitbox walls that Sonic will lose to if he runs head first into them. But there's no way for some of the slower characters to have any say on the matter, and it doesn't matter if your Sex Kick will always win if you can't threaten to put him in some kind of spot that says HEY respect my Nair! Instead of standing in place with spin waiting to release, or walking back and then punishing, or baiting a reaction that he can punish due to speed.
DiSQO_BuNNY
Smash Lord
Lol snake and c4 being the move he's revolved around
- Status