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Project M Social Thread

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Stevo

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So then why did we bring back KB stacking? From what I could gather, the biggest reason it was brought back was the spacee 'mains' crying that they couldn't pull off their shine combos like they could in Melee when they could just perform new ones for P:M.

To be perfectly honest, I would have been completely fine if KB calculations were left the way they were in 2.1. We only brought back KB stacking "because Melee", so what's wrong with suggesting another change that would actually bring about some balance (something KB stacking didn't do) "because Melee". I always see people making 'exceptions for rules' when it comes to a mechanic or a char they like/dislike.
to be honest, I don't understand the physics of everything well enough to continue this debate and not say something wrong. I'll leave it to people who know what they are talking about. I don't agree with that comparison, though.

No one ever said it did (for either), but the ones who were most vocal about KB stacking after it was pointed out were the Falcos. So many people said, "So THIS is why Falco never felt like he was in Melee."
I'm not sure "most vocal" is a good way of determining things to make the best game possible.
 

GHNeko

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>implying that Sonic can't bait up B OOS from samus for an easy punish.

laughingsonicmains_2.gif



let me go back to my business lol.

If you want to continue this discussion of trying to beat the spin of the gods, I'll continue it over in Sonic boards.
 

DrinkingFood

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OK so aesthetic buff for sonic: his every move plays one of his taunt/victory phrases
There's one for falcon that yes's at everything so sonic needs this to be balanced on the annoying tier.
 

KayB

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You know, I've kinda wanted G&W's Judgement move to be a charge attack, sort of like DK's Giant Punch. Like you'd start with one and charge until 9. It'd probably be more practical.

I'm probably going to get a negative response for saying this lol.
 

Vashimus

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I don't think so. It was always ridiculously ****ing strong so I can't even tell the difference anymore. But Ivysaur's up smash doesn't seem stupidly powerful anymore. :(

:phone:
 

SpiderMad

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So then why did we bring back KB stacking? From what I could gather, the biggest reason it was brought back was the spacee 'mains' crying that they couldn't pull off their shine combos like they could in Melee when they could just perform new ones for P:M.
I've seen the video about it, I get the jist of what the concept is, but I have absolutely no clue how it affects me or any of the characters besides the specific situations shown to me in the video. Like what kind of "new" stuff was it able to let you do while it wasn't in that you can't do now that it is in?
 

cannedbread

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because melee™

i wonder if the pmbr will ever make ledgejumps crap like melee again
i like ledgejump wavedash more than ledgehop wavedash even though it's kind of harder
 

DrinkingFood

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Mad, try edge cancelling and aerial (maybe this would work with an l-canceled aerial or a dtilt idk, probs too slow) that sends them straight upwards at a low percent, then follow up with dair. You'll notice they'll fall much slower, you'll reach the ground first, and they probably won't even go into tumble. I haven't tested this stuff with Ike but that's how it works for anything fast enough to land while they're in hitstun.
 

Scythe

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i'm not sure if kb stacking is the reason but comboing with wolf feels much much better in 2.5
 

TheReflexWonder

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Yay sexy vids! Im going to say it one more time, ****ing farts!!
Gotta watch out. :3

You kept getting caught DI'ing the wrong way, unfortunately. I imagine you'll survive easily when in those positions next time, as experience helps a lot against Wario.
 

Divinokage

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Yes indeed, it's just me lacking in xp against the Brawl characters since I barely play P:M or Brawl. =P But now I do know so i can perhaps take steps to avoid it easier... that doesnt mean your skills wont allow you to land it though!
 

Divinokage

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He definitely could've died after the first u-air but that didnt seem like a SDI at all... Hbox was moving backwards when he uair so he DIed away from him.
 

bubbaking

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Speaking of videos, I wonder when GHNeko will upload those ECE videos. I would really like to get some critique on my matches..... :ohwell:

I also don't know why you'd want to give the person getting hit in a combo the advantage, which is what this mechanic does sometimes, Fox and Falco can nair Falco immediately out of his shine if this situation occurs, which is pretty weird.

And in this scenario it does not always still put the person hit at a disadvantage, you can sometimes nair Falcon immediately out of raptor boost with fast fallers at low percents I'm pretty sure and being at a disadvantage for successfully covering something just seems like a bad mechanic. At higher percents if Falcon tries to chase you up you can just jump since the game has some weird zero gravity effect with this mechanic and you will jump way out of reach.
Not really arguing about the validity of the Melee 13-frame mechanic anymore, but I find it hard to believe that the spacees can be punished for shining by a nair when the opponent is stuck in 13 frames of lag. Perhaps this could happen to Falcon, but even then I doubt it. Raptor Boost is pretty fast; it's almost safe even on shield, and I don't think anyone would be punishing Falcon out of it when stuck in 13 frames of lag.

Also why does it matter that Falcon is a higher tier? As a character he still has some major flaws in melee.
I don't think anyone said it matters.....

I've seen the video about it, I get the jist of what the concept is, but I have absolutely no clue how it affects me or any of the characters besides the specific situations shown to me in the video. Like what kind of "new" stuff was it able to let you do while it wasn't in that you can't do now that it is in?
It's funny because that video mostly showcased how KB stacking will help Falco. It's obvious that it applies to more characters, but its effects are most easily seen in (and beneficial for) Falco, it would seem. I believe KB stacking actually hurts Lucario's combos. KB stacking isn't a bad thing, but its inclusion really was just "because Melee". Its presence wasn't needed but I guess it's a refreshing change.
 

Magus420

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Wanna know why Lucario's u-smash links and combos so much better in 2.5? Why his up-b super cancels combo way better?

That melee KB stacking.

I can't think of any way it'd hurt his combos at all. The KB cancel/reset aspect within 10 frames helps stuff link much better.
 

DMG

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DMG#931
Quick question to Reflex or Hbox: Why did Hbox shift away from Bair after the first game of the set vs you? It looks REALLY hard for Wario to deal with Bair, but the Nair/Fair stuff is much easier to trade or beat out or punish the end lag. The first game was like 95% Bair and it went super well, made the MU look rough. He stopped using it less, or got sloppy retreating it I guess, and stuff started going much different. Was he tired or trying to change up his gameplay or what, because it really surprised me given how effective it looked at the beginning.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I can't speak for him, but, I had never played the matchup before, and I was trying to get into the rhythm of things after playing Brawl Singles prior to that. Jigglypuff B-Air is quite useful, but can often be tagged by soft reads with Wario B-Air without too much trouble, and trades are bad for Jigglypuff.

A lot of Wario's ground options, such as F-Tilt, U-Tilt, and space covered by the Forward-B mix-up, help to keep Jigglypuff guessing. Also, Wario can camp reasonably well, too, creating a stalemate that lets him build up Waft.
 

DMG

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Yeah I noticed that. Tilts, if you have them already out as Wario, tend to stuff whatever he tried to do. Ftilt in particular is boss lol. I was just curious because there were a lot of Fairs or Nairs he tossed out, and then I guess he didn't expect to be that close to the ground and he scrapes it with lag and you get the punish etc moments like that started happening a lot more as the set went on.

I know you won vs Wizzrobe, but looking at some of the gameplay for Sonic it looks really unfun. Basically release your spin if they get close, roll away/move away if stuff doesn't work out? You punished his rolling habit when you were up close, but god that looks annoying and I can't imagine that being what you all imagined for Sonic to play like lol. I'm glad people aren't taking that to an extreme, picking a big stage and just going for the timeout with Sonic because it looks pretty viable. Being able to have a hitbox out can be hard with that much space/options to cover from Sonic: I noticed that earlier with his match vs Vanz. Peach being able to Nair or Dsmash and beat anything Sonic does (or Bair, hitbox all the time strat), means much less if he waits first or delays his movements.
 

bubbaking

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You might wanna post these on the Snake sub-forum for critique. ;)

I know you won vs Wizzrobe, but looking at some of the gameplay for Sonic it looks really unfun. Basically release your spin if they get close, roll away/move away if stuff doesn't work out? You punished his rolling habit when you were up close, but god that looks annoying and I can't imagine that being what you all imagined for Sonic to play like lol. I'm glad people aren't taking that to an extreme, picking a big stage and just going for the timeout with Sonic because it looks pretty viable. Being able to have a hitbox out can be hard with that much space/options to cover from Sonic: I noticed that earlier with his match vs Vanz. Peach being able to Nair or Dsmash and beat anything Sonic does (or Bair, hitbox all the time strat), means much less if he waits first or delays his movements.
Just wondering: Can't Wario just sideB if he sees Sonic charging the spin? I don't play either of those chars, but I was thinking that the sideB charge would out-prioritize the spin and catch any rolls or jumps. Just speculating, y'know...
 

BrandX

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You might wanna post these on the Snake sub-forum for critique. ;)



Just wondering: Can't Wario just sideB if he sees Sonic charging the spin? I don't play either of those chars, but I was thinking that the sideB charge would out-prioritize the spin and catch any rolls or jumps. Just speculating, y'know...
Oh right, is there a certain topic in the snake sub forums?
 
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