Project M Social Thread

[Kink-Link5]

He means the ground bounces that put the enemy into a neutral air state.

 

[Tero.]

Ok, since people don't know what i mean. Put in Melee, pick falco fight a level 9 fox and keep trying to shine, dair and watch fox escape it. Then try it in PM and notice you never go into that type of reset. The thing is it may have been a glitch, but it prevented some really broken combos.

Yeah, I noticed exactly the same thing.

 

[Strong Badam]

why would you want that **** in this game...

 

[JesiahTEG]

So I have project M 2.5 on this wii and i have brawl i just have no idea how to load it lol. help a noob out?

 

[Translucent]

The website has what you need. If using the hackless version, all you have to do is have project m on your SD card and go to stage builder after deleting all your custom stages. It should boot up after that.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok I'm at the website looking. In the meantime, just load up Brawl and delete all my custom stages? lol sounds weird

 

[Hylian]

Ok I'm at the website looking. In the meantime, just load up Brawl and delete all my custom stages? lol sounds weird

Exactly that yes. Just delete all of your custom stages and get the hackless version. Then start the game with your sd card in and go to stage builder.

 

[abcool]

The reason i wanted it back is because people were complaining about the balance of PM and some of the ridiculous combos Falco has on players. When i play PM i always feel like you can 0 to death in this game more easily than in Melee simply because some moves shouldn't be able to repeatedly be comboing into itself. It balances Falco's shine for starters without people complaining about having it rebalanced.

Edit: It's your game, but from the level of complaints i see people make towards PM as of late. It may end up in the same boat as SD remix, which is something i would rather NOT see.

 

[NeoZ]

Ok I'm at the website looking. In the meantime, just load up Brawl and delete all my custom stages? lol sounds weird

IIRC, you have to delete all the custom stage, turn off wifi in the Wii settings menu and move forward the date.

The reason i wanted it back is because people were complaining about the balance of PM and some of the ridiculous combos Falco has on players. When i play PM i always feel like you can 0 to death in this game more easily than in Melee simply because some moves shouldn't be able to repeatedly be comboing into itself. It balances Falco's shine for starters without people complaining about having it rebalanced.

Edit: It's your game, but from the level of complaints i see people make towards PM as of late. It may end up in the same boat as SD remix, which is something i would rather NOT see.

Do you have any videos of this? I'm curious since it's the first time I hear about it.

 

[MonkUnit]

If you have any problems with installation, please come to the Project M IRC for help.

@NeoZ: You only need to do that if you have the Brawl thing sending a custom stage every day.

 

[bubbaking]

Abcool makes a good point. Don't write him off. Someone should look into this.

 

[Slashy]

Why did you guys remove the distance nerf on Fox's and Falco's blaster but failed to buff Wolf's pathetic blaster distance?

 

[JOE!]

why would you want that **** in this game...

Because Melee (tm)

 

[Sterowent]

it's a nerf to a god tier character everyone has accepted. why wouldn't you include it?

 

[Vashimus]

Because you didn't read the official Project M instruction manual that clearly states that everything* is subject to change.



*Except spacies.


You know, I always thought the term "spacie" sounds like you're referring to any character from space, unless you include "animal" at the end. So teeeeechnically......Falcon and ZSS are spacies too. :D

 

[bubbaking]

But in terms of characters, snake shouldn't be too bad of a starter character. If you are pretty green at the game, I suggest you learn how to short hop super consistently first. This is something that not a lot of new players really think about but it is essential for hitting your opponent with aerials low to the ground. You should also be using X or Y (assuming you use a gamecube controller) to jump and not the control stick, as that gives you me freedom in your movement while you jump.

Once you have that down, the most important technique I think you should learn is L-Canceling. It's hard to do consistently if you are just barely getting into the game but is definitely you definitely need to learn. You will know when you do it correctly in Project M because they added a flash to your character to indicate when you do it correctly.

Why short hop when you can Cypher?

Yeah, I was actually talking about this with a vBrawl player a couple days ago. He asked me, "What's the best advice for newcomers to Smash games?" I basically said that there are universal techniques which are basic tools of competitive play that greatly enhance the flexibility of even the newest and most inexperienced player. They must be learned before you can hope to be decent and they are the foundations of expansion during the path to becoming good. In Melee and P:M, many new players think that the most important tech to learn is either the WD or the WL, but I usually (key word: USUALLY) tell them that they're wrong. The most important things for a player to learn, after having a good understanding of Melee/P:M's basic commands happen to be the inputs that make up the SHFFL tech: Short Hop, Fast Fall, L-cancel. With a good understanding of how to use this technique, players who can do it well can take out even the most skilled wavedashers (who know little else) with just that tech.

Edit: I say usually because there ARE characters who would encourage one to learn something else before the SHFFL, namely Samus, Luigi, ICs, and maybe a few others. This is largely why these chars are so strange/difficult to learn. They actually have pretty low technical ceilings, but their BnB stuff is so different from everyone else's that you have to adopt a different mindset and drop normally harmless habits (like SHing a little more than needed). You might actually want to learn how to WD/WL with Luigi before you can SHFFL.

 

[KayB]

It may end up in the same boat as SD remix, which is something i would rather NOT see.

And what boat is SD Remix in? I'm curious to hear.

 

[bubbaking]

SD Remix is in that boat where they didn't give some chars necessary changes, they practically buffed mobility universally, and they outright changed how certain characters play, removing some of their feel, and it's all because Melee's Top Tier is too good. Some chars, they did extremely well with (Roy, Samus, etc) and some chars, they did extremely poorly with (Pichu, Ness, etc). For clarity's sake, I am talking about demo 1. I still haven't tried out demo 2, which apparently just came out.

 

[NeoZ]

If you have any problems with installation, please come to the Project M IRC for help.

@NeoZ: You only need to do that if you have the Brawl thing sending a custom stage every day.

The game doesn't do that by default? I remember people saying you had to do that when the first demo came out, I thought it was mandatory for people using the non-homebrew version.

 

[leafbarrett]

why would you want that **** [the shine nerf] in this game...

Why did you guys remove the distance nerf on Fox's and Falco's blaster but failed to buff Wolf's pathetic blaster distance?

Because clearly spacies don't have enough going for them already, right?

 

[abcool]

And what boat is SD Remix in? I'm curious to hear.

What bubba said.

Also, the difference between Fox/Falco in this game and Melee is Falco has some guaranteed 0-death on Fox with just dair > shine alone. In Melee you had to mixup tilts/grabs inbetween to make it flow better. Now, in PM Falco can literally tech chase on platforms with just shine alone and doesn't have to mix in anything else. This causes his character to have a HUGE buff.

I don't understand how no one noticed this before. Most Falco mains should have noticed this from day one.

Anyway guys, if you feel it's not a big deal then I am not gonna talk about it anymore. It's not my project, it's yours i was just pointing out stuff some smashers had complaints about pertaining to this mod.

 

[Magus420]

It happens more easily with raptor boost. If it's staled even slightly and you hit someone out of a missed tech or laying on the ground the damage is low enough to put them in the 13ish frame long down damage action. Down damage is what causes resets, and has them do a getup if on the ground when it ends, or go into normal fall if it ends while they're still in the air.

Melee goes by damage of the attack for whether it can reset, so you can have a very high KB move launch them high into the air with only 13 frames of stun. PM goes by the strength of the knockback, and in order to reset it needs to have weak knockback (this lets things like Luigi's d-tilt reset). It works that way because the damage thing didn't work, and really it makes a lot more sense anyway imo.

 

[GaretHax]

It happens more easily with raptor boost. If it's staled even slightly and you hit someone out of a missed tech or laying on the ground the damage is low enough to put them in the 13ish frame long down damage action. Down damage is what causes resets, and has them do a getup if on the ground when it ends, or go into normal fall if it ends while they're still in the air.

Melee goes by damage of the attack for whether it can reset, so you can have a very high KB move launch them high into the air with only 13 frames of stun. PM goes by the strength of the knockback, and in order to reset it needs to have weak knockback (this lets things like Luigi's d-tilt reset). It works that way because the damage thing didn't work, and really it makes a lot more sense anyway imo.

If it makes more sense for it to universally be that way, would it be possible to include special cases for characters who gain a disproportionate advantage from it, or rather the lack thereof?

 

[bubbaking]

So I hear Armada is quitting Melee. I don't know exactly how true this is because I have yet to view the original post stating this, but if he is quitting Melee, I wonder if he will continue to play P:M. That would be really cool, actually.

Also I would suggest watching a lot of high level gameplay videos of recent tournies, apex 2013 should be a good place to start.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but it's one I generally disagree with for absolute newcomers. Watching top-level play at such a young and impressionable part of their Melee careers can cause them to take note of and focus on the wrong things, or rather, the right things at the wrong times. If a newbie were to watch Armada play, he might see some of the really advanced stuff he does and believe that he should be working on that first and foremost while missing some of the basic stuff that most competent Peaches take for granted. If someone were to watch a top Samus play, he might think that the most important things to learn are jab pressure and landing grabs for tech-chases and combos, when missile cancels, tilt pressure, and upB OoS are all arguably much more important and vital to basic Samus play.

Hey so I have a question about L-Cancelling. So I saw videos and such of how to do the L-Cancelling, but I have no clue what I'm doing wrong. Someone said that in Project M, there was a special flash that shows you did an L-Cancel, but I can't get it to happen.

I'm trying to do it with snake btw lol.

Well, it's actually a good thing you're using Snake because a good deal of his aerials have a fair amount of landing lag, so it's easy to notice when you got the L-cancel. Try to press whatever button you have set to shield (usually the triggers L and R) as soon as you hit the ground during your aerial. When you get it right, your character will flash white and your landing lag will be cut in half. Sometimes, the flash is hard to catch, but with Snake, you should definitely notice the L-cancel because your normally laggy aerials will suddenly end really fast when they land. Keep in mind that only A button moves can be cancelled.

By the way, I didn't feel the need to make a new thread for something so small, but I am able to tech with Z, which should be a light shoulder button input+A rather than full press+A input. Just kind of annoying knowing that for every tech I accidentally perform after getting punished for a whiffed grab, I'm also missing one for the same reason.

Are you sure that light presses couldn't tech in Melee? IIRC, the Z button could be used for L-cancelling, so perhaps it can be used for techs as well.

This has nothing to do with benig hit repeatedly. You're probably confusing the effects of land canceled hitstun or crouch canceling with being hit multiple times by the same move. The only thing being spammed on causes is damage decay, and by extension, knockback decay.

But about jab resets, they said they haven't perfected multi hit jab resets yet but afaik regular resets work just fine. I think you're imagining things. If a really strong move has a weak hitbox just before it, I imagine it could jab reset, like fox/falco's uair initial hitbox can.

Landing cancels hitstun? I always thought that if one landed while still in the hitstun of a move that didn't send him into tumble, he would be in a weird 'grounded hitstun' state, but the hitstun wouldn't be "cancelled". Also, I don't think one can CC shines. If abcool is noticing something weird with the spacees' shines, I doubt that CCs have anything to do with it.

I think abcool is saying that it seems like stronger moves will reset as opposed to only weak moves resetting. In that case, more moves would be able to be thrown out to catch a missed tech and resets would overall become stronger.

 

[cannedbread]

i got interested in advance play more watching cpu level 9 marth dittoes
keep in mind this was when i was in elementary school

so basically what i'm saying is that it's probably more important to play the game and understand how it works at a more basic level than to dive right in to the good stuff
maybe
i don't know do what you want
now how do i play skullgirls

 

[bubbaking]

Do the tutorial. It's the best tutorial that I've ever seen in any FG and it's 100% interactive. I wish the tutorial in any (and all) of the Smash games had been interactive...

 

[Wizzrobe]

So I hear Armada is quitting Melee. I don't know exactly how true this is because I have yet to view the original post stating this, but if he is quitting Melee, I wonder if he will continue to play P:M. That would be really cool, actually.

I almost certain he won't still play P:M since Melee is basically the same game so it wouldn't make sense for him to play P:M exclusively.

 

[cannedbread]

rip armada
title for best pit is officially up for grabs

 

[DrinkingFood]

The reason i wanted it back is because people were complaining about the balance of PM and some of the ridiculous combos Falco has on players.

Combos are most certainly not what makes Falco good. His everything else is what is. Regardless, that affects more than just Falco. We don't need to go giving people ways out of combos based on a glitch.

 

[cannedbread]

falco has a ****ing good gun with endless bullets and a 2d plane to shoot at people with
if i ever play falco at all it's for the gun

 

[standardtoaster]

in a game based around movement, they (melee) gave him a projectile you can fire ~3 times a second that stops movement

 

[Warhawk]

The reason i wanted it back is because people were complaining about the balance of PM and some of the ridiculous combos Falco has on players. When i play PM i always feel like you can 0 to death in this game more easily than in Melee simply because some moves shouldn't be able to repeatedly be comboing into itself. It balances Falco's shine for starters without people complaining about having it rebalanced.

I believe the situations you are talking about happens at a percent where the opponent can tech away and get out of the shine->dair combos, so adding that back serves to reward people who miss their techs. I don't think that zero stun reset or whatever we want to call it should return, especially with the general oddities about it (people being able to double jump really high in that state and such).

 

[Comeback Kid]

in a game based around movement, they (melee) gave him a projectile you can fire ~3 times a second that stops movement

Abcool makes a compelling point here: If the Project M engine buffs spacies, both in the deadliness of their combos and in their overall ease of use, that is going completely against the spirit of the project.

If the engine can't fix that, then the spacies (or just falco) need to be nerfed to compensate for the significant buffs.

It's a pretty air tight argument.

 

[Kink-Link5]

RIP in peace, Adam.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

First and foremost, shuffling and dashdance use are most important.

 

[bubbaking]

Reflex, that's not how you say SHFFL...

Why did you guys remove the distance nerf on Fox's and Falco's blaster but failed to buff Wolf's pathetic blaster distance?

I don't think too many people want Wolf's slow-moving blasters crossing a large distance. That would be the most obnoxious thing ever. Wolf could literally set up a wall of wavelanded blasters. He can already kind of do that now.

Because you didn't read the official Project M instruction manual that clearly states that everything* is subject to change.



*Except spacies.

This man knows what's up!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

That's my word for it, because SHFFL'd looks dumb.

 

[bubbaking]

Fair enough, lolz!

I almost certain he won't still play P:M since Melee is basically the same game so it wouldn't make sense for him to play P:M exclusively.

Yeah, but P:M is a better game, so why not? If Armada quit Melee because it was boring or imbalanced or whatever (I don't know his reasoning so I'm just speculating), then it would make sense for him to continue playing P:M. Besides, in Melee, he played Peach, but in P:M, he played Pit, so even if they were the same game (which they aren't), it wouldn't be so for him because he mains different chars.

Combos are most certainly not what makes Falco good. His everything else is what is. Regardless, that affects more than just Falco. We don't need to go giving people ways out of combos based on a glitch.

Combos may not be what makes Falco good but it definitely contributes a lot. Get touched and you're getting landed with a Falcon-length combo that's easier to execute and requires less reads than any of Falcon's stuff. If there was a 'glitch' that was helping people out of Falco's almost 0-to-deaths in Melee, then perhaps it should be looked into for P:M, because its lack of a presence buffs an already Top Tier character.

I believe the situations you are talking about happens at a percent where the opponent can tech away and get out of the shine->dair combos, so adding that back serves to reward people who miss their techs. I don't think that zero stun reset or whatever we want to call it should return, especially with the general oddities about it (people being able to double jump really high in that state and such).

It only really affects the spacees who are already broken as heck. I know what Abcool is talking about now and I've never seen it happen to other chars. If people get 'extra' rewards against the spacees, then it might be a nice balancing aspect, courtesy of Melee.

If anything, perhaps GaretHax's suggestion should be considered:

If it makes more sense for it to universally be that way, would it be possible to include special cases for characters who gain a disproportionate advantage from it, or rather the lack thereof?

 

[CORY]

That's my word for it, because SHFFL'd looks dumb.

ur fase luks dum!

and we're talking about how dumb falco is now, i presume? i'll agree, but only because i harbor an immense amount of salt for him and shiek. literally, my least two favorite characters to play against in anything (at least in melee, since sheik is sliiiightly less oppressive in p:m.).

 

[Kink-Link5]

I agree. Falco is a really dumb character and should be nerfed in future installments. Even if it was just his shine starting on frame 2, after the invincibility, it would be a fine start .