Project M Social Thread

[UltiMario]

Don't stay up for a midnight launch on the 28th.

It'll be a miracle if it's out before the 29th.

 

[himemiya]

I gonna assume it'll be in eastern standard time.

 

[iLink]

I'm honestly expecting it on the 29th at the earliest

If you guys really need to do some last minute polishing that takes longer then is expected, I rather it be pushed back a little instead of having to do a 2.6 patch to fix some stuff.

 

[himemiya]

^ You got a point.

 

[bubbaking]

Also, cool it with the thread derailing about Brawl's input stuff. That's not what this thread is for.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but to be fair, I think it's actually reasonable to talk about the input thing because the PMBR just made it one of the hottest topics with their second latest update and people might wanna talk about how much impact this new development will have on our metagame. That being said, I'm pretty much done with the topic.

Posted one more time in case anyone missed it:

http://www.mediafire.com/?owyp5q1an08k0

Well, it ain’t Christmas Eve/Day anymore, but I figured I might as well release my own brstm packet anyway. If you’re a fan of Sonic Advance, Sonic Battle, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, DBZ Budokai, Earth, Wind, & Fire, OverClocked Remix, Dubstep, Techno, and/or Rock songs, then you’ll probably find something you like in my selection, but there’s also some Metroid and SM64 remixes and some other stuff mixed in, so who knows? All songs are with standard P:M backgrounds in mind. If you want to know which specific brstm is a certain song, PM me. I have an ordered list:

[collapse="Organization of Songs and Stages"]Menu
Title Screen (Sonic Battle)
Expectation (Dragonball Z Budokai)
Big Opportunity (Dragonball Z Budokai 2)

Yoshi’s Island
September (Earth, Wind, & Fire)
Air Rally (Rhythm Heaven Fever)
Late in the Evening (Paul Simon)
In the Stone (Earth, Wind, & Fire)

Rainbow Cruise
Tails’ Twirly Tune Retro Remix (Sonic Battle Remix of Tails’ Lab)
Call Me Al (Paul Simon)

Halberd
Running to Victory (Dragonball Z Budokai)
Phi Battle (Sonic Battle)
Final Battle (Sonic Battle)
Back to Mad (Texas ******)
OCR Scrambled Eggman (Sonic 3 & Knuckles Remix of Boss Theme by Project Chaos)
OCR Malicious Fingers (Sonic 3 & Knuckles Remix of Final Boss Theme by Project Chaos)
Afterburner (Noisestorm)
Cosmic Angel Zone (Sonic Advance)
Egg Rocket Zone (Sonic Advance)
X Zone (Sonic Advance)
Egg Rocket Remix (Sonic Advance Remix of Egg Rocket Zone)
Pinball Wizard (The Who)

Metal Cavern
Metal Mario (Super Smash Bros 64)
OCR The Glacier’s Peak (Sonic Advance Remix of Ice Mountain Zone: Act 1)
OCR Heads Up for Tails (Sonic 3 & Knuckles Remix of Final Boss Theme by Project Chaos)
OCR Devastation’s Doorway (Super Mario 64 Remix of Koopa’s Road and Bowser’s Theme)
OCR The Alternate Route (Super Mario 64 Remix of Koopa’s Road)

WarioWare
Nonaggression (Sonic Advance 3)
Cell Games Arena BW Soundfont (Dragonball Z Budokai Remix of Cell Games Arena)
Egg Rocket Cosmic Angel Zone Remix (Sonic Advance Remix of Egg Rocket and Cosmic Angel zones)
Cosmic Angel Zone Arranged Remix (Sonic Advance Remix of Cosmic Angel Zone)
Catgroove (Parov Stelar)

Brinstar
Metal Depot (Sonic Battle)
OCR Cranial Syphon [Kay-raid] (Metroid Remix of Kraid’s Chamber)

Pictochat
Battle Highway Remix (Sonic Battle Remix of Battle Highway)

Fountain of Dreams
Fountain of Dreams (Super Smash Bros Melee)
Cosmic Angel Remix (Sonic Advance Remix of Cosmic Angel Zone)
Egg Rocket Zone Remix Extended (Sonic Advance Remix of Egg Rocket Zone)
Egg Rocket Zone Remix* (Sonic Advance Remix of Egg Rocket Zone)
Egg Rocket Zone Trance Mix (Sonic Advance Remix of Egg Rocket Zone)

Smashville (Normal)
OCR The Ken Song (Street Fighter II Remix of Ken’s Theme)
Library (Sonic Battle)
Kamikaze (Five Iron Frenzy)***
Basket Case (Green Day)
Amy’s Room FL Cover Remix (Sonic Battle Remix of Amy’s Room)

Smashville (K.K.)
Club Rouge (Sonic Battle)

Yoshi’s Story
Yoshi’s Story (Super Smash Bros Melee)
Let’s Groove (Earth, Wind, & Fire)

Green Hill Zone
Cosmic Angel Zone Remix (Sonic Advance Remix of Cosmic Angel Zone)
Chaos Battle (Sonic Battle)
Scatman (Scatman John)

Skyworld
Castle Crashers Feint DnB Remix (Castle Crashers Remix)

Dracula's Castle
OCR In the Darkness of Time (Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow Remix of Clock Tower)

Kongo Jungle
Kongo Jungle (Super Smash Bros 64)
Chambermaid Swing (Parov Stelar)

Pokémon Stadium
OCR Red Cyclone (Street Fighter II Remix of Zangief’s Theme)
Emerald Beach – Sonic Generations Version (Sonic Battle)

Pokémon Stadium 2
Battle Highway (Sonic Battle)
Cosmic Angel Zone Remix MegaDrive Version (Sonic Advance Remix of Cosmic Angel Zone)

Final Destination
Shockwave (Noisestorm)
Showdown (Pendulum)
OCR The Doomsday (Sonic 3 & Knuckles Remix of Doomsday Zone by Project Chaos)
NonAggression XG Remix (Sonic Advance 3 Remix of Nonaggression)
What I’m Made Of… (Sonic Heroes)

Battlefield
**Ballad of the Goddess - Legend of Zelda 25th Anniversary Symphony (Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword)
Challengers (Dragonball Z Budokai)
Cell Games Arena (Dragonball Z Budokai)
Like a Burning Wind (Dragonball Z Budokai)
Move Forward Fearlessly (Dragonball Z Budokai)

*All the Egg Rocket and Cosmic Angel remixes are different, so you may want to pick and choose which ones you include. I liked all of them so I simply included all of them.
**This is completely different from the version of Ballad of the Goddess on Skyloft. That version is the theme played during the trailer of the game and is not as ‘complete’ as this.
***There are actually two versions of this song on SV. Each one is of the exact same song, but looped differently.[/collapse]

 

[iLink]

Just curious, are YI ghost platforms still random or are they on a timer now?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but to be fair, I think it's actually reasonable to talk about the input thing because the PMBR just made it one of the hottest topics with their second latest update and people might wanna talk about how much impact this new development will have on our metagame. That being said, I'm pretty much done with the topic.

There's a difference between arguing about its effect on the PM metagame and arguing about whether or not Sakurai purposefully put it in the game. Also, there's no need for people to get all up in arms about it either way.

There's a thread about it in the Brawl Gameplay subforum if people want to talk about it in relation to Brawl, but, this thread is about PM.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Maybe you should try it first...

You're right JCaesar, I should just pop in my PM 2.5 and check out these HEY WAIT A MINUTE

 

[F. Blue]

You're right JCaesar, I should just pop in my PM 2.5 and check out these HEY WAIT A MINUTE

So just don't say anything.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I agree, we should all be so fortunate to have no standards and accept anything that is made at all, and not voice any concerns. A pox on the pmbr for allowing the thread to be open and provide it's humble audience with updates on the development of the game. That is a very very naughty thing to do, you might even get *gasp* compliments and public feedback on what you're doing. How can we have Ivysaur shooting lasers out of her mouth with this nonsensical "Respond to your audience's feedback even if it's negative" attitude the PMBR is taking with its development?

The PMBR should just not provide any information on the game, all it does is create negative reactions and causes people to say things about it.

In fact, just don't release Project M at all, so all the people with the wonderful mentality of F. Blue won't have anything to say about its content.


Sardonicism aside, that is pretty genuinely a fatally flawed standpoint F. Blue.

 

[Onomanic]

Don't stay up for a midnight launch on the 28th.

It'll be a miracle if it's out before the 29th.

Prove him wrong, PMBR!

EDIT: @Kink, or you could just cool your jets and wait for 2.5 to be released and then try it out. I mean, it's at least 48 hours away.

 

[metroid1117]

ALSO metroid is really good don't believe his reverse trash-talk cancelling
it ****s with your head bad
he's also very friendly just about as much as i thought

I treat every match as a learning experience towards getting better, so I was surprised when you guys remarked that no one says "that's so smart" haha; making remarks like that helps me internalize what other options are available in a given situation. It was cool to meet you too canned, I wish we could've got to play more games though =/.

Shout-outs to Eli, Leelue, Dwop, canned, and Guru for great times - it was great to finally meet and play with you guys, I really learned a lot and had a lot of fun. Also shout-outs to Eli for being such a great host and giving me two posters (one for Mad) with you guys' signatures on it, that was extremely thoughtful of you. If you guys ever come to IL, I'll do my best to make it up to you . Great games, guys!

PS: Sorry for being so bad at doubles, I don't think my team ever won a set >.>.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

PS: Sorry for being so bad at doubles, I don't think my team ever won a set >.>.

Ironic, since you play Ike, and Ike fights for his friends... XD

 

[#HBC | Joker]

He fights for his friends. Not with his friends.

 

[Kink-Link5]

You gotta play as Ice Climbers for that one.

 

[rifall]

My Thoughts About Ike

Wow. I was rather Annoyed with 2.1 Ike. However, I never sespected so much tweaking would be necessary, or even considered.

I thought at most maybe the tip of his sword could be nerfed one or two percent with lower knockback on such moves with long cooldown so I'm not punushed by my opponent having some lucky spacing.

I look forward extremely to trying 2.5 Ike, Pit, and Ness. But, They'll have to take a backseat behind Ivysaur, Squirtal, Zero Suit Samus, and Diddy Kong.

Also, here is another quick reminder about my new music pack.

http://www.mediafire.com/?f3zclct4yqtg5

Well, As promised, for Christmas, I am releasing my music pack. For best results use a neon-ish texture hack over Yoshi's story and mix it with songs you enjoy.

Featured Tracks
Final Destination
-To Die For (The Lion King)
-Gangnam Style Metal Cover (PSY)
Battlefield
-Man With A Machine Gun (FFVIII)
Smashville
-Dreams of an Absooution
Skyloft
-Skyward Sword Theme Rock Cover
Dracula's Castle
-Slenderman Song
Pokémon Stadium 2
-Season 1 Theme Song (Pokémon)
SSE: Jungle
-Afranove (RE-Venge)
-Pandemonium (ZiGZaG)
Green Hill Zone
-The Great Sea Rock Cover (The Windwaker)
Skyworld
-Actually, shoutout to Jcaesar here. I used his replacements because all my ideas sucked.
Menu
-Menu Music (Metroid Prime 2)

 

[bubbaking]

Competition?

Lolz, JK. I actually want your music, but I don't think I have enough space on my SD card...

 

[Kink-Link5]

Real question about how Ike's side B functions actually-

When you charge the move and release, it obviously covers more distance than uncharged, but my question is how does it do so? I see there being two possible ways that a "move that travels variable distance" can be executed, so I was wondering which it was:

A.) Both charged and uncharged side B last "x" frames, and charging increases the distance covered in each frame (AKA charging makes him move faster, but the move always lasts just as long)

and B.) Uncharged side b lasts "x" frames, and charged side b lasts "x+n" frames, while both travel at the same velocity (AKA both move Ike at the same speed, but charging makes him travel for longer)

Depending on which of these is the case, it has very real consequences on how a character can use a move like this, though for Ike it doesn't really matter since he gets to full charge in 30 frames.

Same question goes for Zard's down B, though that one /seems/ to be "charging makes you go further at the same speed."

 

[KingBlaze777]

Ike's QD seems to function as described in form A.

Kink, I am curious about how that could possibly have any consequences on how Ike can use the move. Could you please elaborate? Whichever Ike's case is, they're apparently similar (I might be missing something).

 

[SpiderMad]

Also, here is another quick reminder about my new music pack.

Would you mind making a dropbox account and making all 3 zips into 1 single zip and upload it to the dropbox account and then link that instead ?

 

[Kink-Link5]

A means he has no reason to want to use the uncharged version of the move at all, since it strictly has less utility than taking the 30 extra frames to charge it and yield exponentially better results. The only time he'd be forced to use it is if the player decides to use the move and the enemy closes the gap between them sometime around the 9 frames of startup the move has, and it would still be just inferior to the charged version.

B means the fully charged version is just as good as in A, but using the move uncharged makes it safer and faster to do than the charged version, while being less useful to go "RAWR I'M IKE LOOK THE **** OUT *****ES," than the charged version.

Basically B is superior as far as usefulness as a move is concerned.

I say it doesn't make much of a difference, just in this case, since Ike's desirable position to initiate the move gives him plenty of time to charge it for 30 frames and use the version that's better than both A and B: The charged variation. If it took as long as like, Charizard's down B jump, to charge, the difference would be much more noticeable in application, as the lesser charged versions of the move would be seen more. It also covers a considerable distance when uncharged, making the difference in travel distance between 9 and 39 frames of startup hard to tell precisely.

Were it so easy to tell, I wouldn't be having to ask which one Ike uses!

Hi Schizm. You were right Ike's sword really is basically Roy and it was Diddy as the last character lmao.

[collapse=repost from smashmods for non PMBR smashboards peoples]Actual comments on Ike at this time:

Dash change is good and something he's been in need of as a tool to facilitate his role as a "fast, heavy hitting, bait and punish" kind of character. Having all punish and no bait before was sloppy and just made him focus on "Wait until the opponent gives you 30 frames to breath and charge side B."

Side B change I wholeheartedly disagree with, in both its execution and its goals. The obnoxious parts of the move have nothing to do with "commitment" and everything to do with taking just half a second to fully charge and use the move's greatest asset. It wasn't given any kind of tools as compensation and just seems to counteract his improved initial dash. It's still in beta though so maybe a less committed, faster to start, and much slower to fully charge side B can be looked at sometime in the future.

Sword changes are Roy so it's whatever. I'm sure his flub hits are not nearly as bad on everything as Roy's. It's something I disagree with as a direction, but it helps quiet people who think he's "too easy" to do stuff with. As long as he can still do identical stuff with just stricter execution it shouldn't effect his actual gameplay.

Comments on Wario:

[/collapse]

 

[iLink]

I wouldn't get your panties in a bunch about the Ike changes. They sound more extreme than they probably are. Watching him in the 2.5 streams, he hardly seems different.

 

[Kink-Link5]

My panties are certainly unbunched. I was just asking about Ike's side B as a whole and in general, not it's changes.

Ike's always going to have the obnoxious part of him as long as Side-B instantly gives him stage control over non-projectile characters. Which is fine considering you have a character like Falco that has free full-stage control without having to charge up for 39 frames. I just think he could stand buffs to better facilitate close-range movement.

Which a faster dash seems to be incorporated specifically to address.

 

[iLink]

That wasn't really directed as you as much as a general blanket statement for the people expressing concern about him.

Only thing I find kind of counter intuitive is how Ike is supposed to space now, considering hitting near the base of the sword seems to be your goal, but is probably the unsafest thing on shield. It's probably not as bad as it sounds on paper since he really doesn't look very different.

 

[SpiderMad]

Can I get an easier to understand explanation of how his "hilts" and stuff work? It sounds like there's just a tipper and a hilt, the hilt being the inner part and the tipper being the out part of say a sword swing.

Why did they chose to make it like Roy and not like Marth's? With Roy you space "badly" on purpose like iLink said. You would often still space a lot of Ike's attacks, a lot of them could be CC'ed and punished so you would still space fairs and stuff at the tip, regardless of them being stronger at that point or not: Now it's the opposite though, but weaker knockback hits lead to more combos? So if you hit close you get more power so it's more safe on hit, but if you hit with the tip it's less safe because of less damage but you're spaced far then so it's still safe in that sense so it's a win/win I guess?

 

[jalued]

Can I get an easier to understand explanation of how his "hilts" and stuff work? It sounds like there's just a tipper and a hilt, the hilt being the inner part and the tipper being the out part of say a sword swing.

Why did they chose to make it like Roy and not like Marth's? With Roy you space "badly" on purpose like iLink said. You would often still space a lot of Ike's attacks, a lot of them could be CC'ed and punished so you would still space fairs and stuff at the tip, regardless of them being stronger at that point or not: Now it's the opposite though, but weaker knockback hits lead to more combos? So if you hit close you get more power so it's more safe on hit, but if you hit with the tip it's less safe because of less damage but you're spaced far then so it's still safe in that sense so it's a win/win I guess?

But roy's power at the tip was laughable... Ike's power at the tip is still stronger than marth's untipped fsmash

As a side note: I'm very happy that the backroom is brave enough to increase the depth of characters. Sonic, Ike and lucario (that I can think off) have all received substantial changes that make them harder to master and (hopefully) more fun to play.

Oh and anyone who think's that Ike's eruption in 2.1 wasn't ridiculous... try edge guarding falcon with it.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Don't try to make too much sense of it Madisa.

Just hit stuff with your broccoli.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Why did they chose to make it like Roy and not like Marth's? With Roy you space "badly" on purpose like iLink said.

People seem to bring this up a lot, but I don't think it makes any sense. If you get the most out of an attack it's not spaced badly. Moves can have different optimal spacing depending on the state of the enemy (shield, spotdodge, etc). There's nothing that says a move has to hit at the farthest possible range for it to be properly spaced.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Just a sidenote to DMG
Although I've stated that I'm fine with changes to Ike's sword, I thought I'd make it clear that claiming that the sweet spot changes "just require you to space now, Ooh Noo!" is an extremely ignorant statement. For one, nobody is complaining about Ike being harder. That's not even the ignorant part though. The parts that actually does show as much and makes me wonder how you got your purple name is the fact that the changes to the sword strictly make it worse. Having places where I can't hit to full effect where I once could is worse not because of my hypothetical lack of skill but because there will always be the possibility of a situation rising where the correct spacing is simply not available. It could be due to risk of the opponent breaking out of hitstun for during a combo should I take the extra few frames for correct positioning, when I have just broken out of hitstun but am still under the effects of launch speed and have to face an oncoming opponent, or if I need to deal with somebody out of wake up or ukemi or the like and they have a non-neutral positional advantage. These are things that occur in game-to-game play, and suffer directly as a result of this change regardless of whether or not the player is vro, metroid, hbox playing Jiggs with Ike's sword glued to her foot, or little old me. Don't be a fool, plenty of people wanted Ike to be more challenging, including me. That doesn't mean you have to make the character directly worse in the process.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Sorry, ignore this.

 

[SpiderMad]

Don't weak hits set up for combos better in certain circumstances?

 

[Kink-Link5]

On the plus side Food, Ike's initial dash isn't useless now.

Grab range nerftweak is weird though.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yeah I'm glad of the dash startup so long as it isn't less in terms of distance, but only time, AKA it's just faster now. But Ike's great grab game really didn't deserve to be nerfed with everything else... Guess it's time I learned to reverse boost grab though, I had always forgotten about that tech. Can somebody in PMBR confirm that Reverse boost grabs work properly in P:M, or at least in 2.5? I remember magus revealing in a thread on smashmods that some aspect of momentum transfer from dash attack cancels isn't working right, although it may just apply to normal DAC grabs and not reverse ones.

 

[Magus420]

It's not strictly worse because you seem to be completely ignoring that he also has a stronger hit available to him to use when he has the option to hit with it.


Here, the blue hitboxes do -1 damage, and the purple hitbox on the hilt does +1 damage (the difference in damage affects KBG). To hit the sweetspot you need to hit with the purple but not the smaller arm or shoulder hitboxes.

Turn grabs don't have animation based movement on them, so boost turn grabs have carried dash attack momentum into them since brawl.

 

[DrinkingFood]

The only differenxce is one damage? No change direct change in knockback values? How about the tip, and knockback changes there and/or how does the damage compare to the other hitboxes?

 

[Magus420]

The hitbox damage is a direct change in knockback values. It is not like a damage difference due to stale moves. Before they both did 201.85 KB vs 90 weight at 100%, now they do 211.80 sweetspot and 192.05 with the middle blade/body.

Did I say the tip changed?

 

[Perfect Chaos]

As mentioned on the spotlight, the tip hitbox should deal the same damage as 2.1, and the +1/-1 is in relation to the tip hitbox.

EDIT: Ninja'ed Wizard'ed

 

[Kink-Link5]

How's the priority handled on the hitboxes?

Arm> Hilt > middle > tip?

Priority meaning if they overlap here.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah. They go directly in order of priority outwards from body>arm>hilt>blade>tip. Lower hitbox ID = higher priority.

 

[Kink-Link5]

What are the ID's on those hitboxes then? I assume that's how priority is handled, but I don't know which way it goes.