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Project M Social Thread

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Stunts

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
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312
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Training Room
Hey guys, I uploaded 6 Demo 2.5 games of my Ivysuar versus Nap's G&W. They can be found here.
Yes, some Ivy wins. I got a little depressed after watching your last video lol

As for the extra credit episode; I don't feel like elaborating due to it being a since of experiences and opinion, but I don't think P:M have to worry about FOO strategies that much. Brawl, however is a different story.
And this is coming from a brawl player
 

Yung Mei

Where all da hot anime moms at
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
5,341
somebody on tumblr reblogged my guide to being good with fox, sweet lord
 

Sweet™

Smash Famous @PennStateSweet #SweetNation
Premium
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May 16, 2012
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995
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Northeast Ohio/Pittsburgh
Am I the only one that thinks SWF should have it's own character specifics on Project M?

I mean, SSB4 (a game that doesn't even have a release day yet) has it's own. Why can't a game that's already out (and played competitively worldwide) have it's own character specific forums on here?
 

`dazrin

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Messages
2,213
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
The reason why is because MLG owned smashboards, and didn't permit of unofficial mods being featured on the site.

However, with AlphaZealot recently purchasing smashboards, that could change. It's still up in the air.
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,791
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Chester, IL
Toon Link, Falco, Jigglypuff, Peach.
Just curious, why would you want to see Melee top/high tiers? I would've thought you'd have enough of them after > 10 years of Melee, unless you want to see how well TL stacks against them.

Also, ending a game with an off-screen Solar Beam kill is the most satisfying thing ever.
 

Kink-Link5

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
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6,232
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Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
Just curious, why would you want to see Melee top/high tiers? I would've thought you'd have enough of them after > 10 years of Melee, unless you want to see how well TL stacks against them.

Also, ending a game with an off-screen Solar Beam kill is the most satisfying thing ever.
I don't want to see TL stacked against them, I just want to see them because they're fun and interesting characters to watch, and get very little high-performance representation.

It's like asking why someone would want to watch Melee at all after 10 years. The game is still evolving and characters are never the same as they were 3 years ago. Especially in a new and different enviornment.
Particularly Peach, who's gotten more than a handful of changes, intentional or not, with Project M. Very few if any other characters can attest to being actually able to use their footstool actively.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
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Sep 23, 2007
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NNID
UltiMario
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I don't agree with the video totally, but the zerg thing made me think of Brawl MK "mains"......
I was going to type up the 6th largest rage response I would have ever written until I noticed you put mains in quotes.

Fine line you stood on, EY. Fine line.
 

9Kplus1

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
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Smogon (PM FC: 4256-7740-0627)
To be fair Ulti, most MK mains are fake as hell

Some don't even use MK in tourney

Some don't even use MK irl

Some don't even play Brawl and instead hump Genesect all day

You see where I'm going with this; Genesect deserved that ban and rain / sun are next.

What characters would people want to see? o_o
I just wanna see you destroy T-Block's Falco again :)
 

Supreme Dirt

King of the Railway
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7,336
ITT: people who don't understand a character can't just be fun to play as, they must also be fun to play against

it's basic multiplayer game design people.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
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18,975
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Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Genesect is fine, IMO, and why would you ban sun but not sand?
Genesect was a bit overcentralizing. People literally were running less than 31 IV's in a particular defensive stat, JUST to make sure he got the "wrong" boost from Download. That kind of janky stuff, or always tossing on 1 of the 3-4 Pokemon that might do ok vs any of his sets isn't healthy and especially with Uturn it's hard to force him to accept the bad MU. Get the Download boost and you're hitting nearly as hard as CB Scizor (assuming you aren't running the CB/LO set on Genesect, those hit even harder upfront) with pretty solid coverage and fairly solid typing with Rain making Fire less threatening too. Immune to Toxic and T. Spikes, neutral to SR, hits hard with download boost and guessing the wrong set is extremely costly.

With that said, he's not Uber Max level. If there was a tier under Uber and above OU, he'd probably be in there along with a few other current Ubers. The base 99 speed is honestly the most disappointing thing about him. For the OU metagame though I'm super glad he's gone because it was so mindless.
 

9Kplus1

Smash Master
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Generally, those who went far out of their way to ensure that Genesect couldn't get a boost in a very particular situation were approaching Genesect completely wrong. If you're dramatically lowering a Pokemon's stat IV just so Genesect wouldn't revenge kill it, then you're likely a bad player; see: 10 Def IV Yache Garchomp. Seriously, there were so many other methods which one could use to work around the threat of Scarf Gene, such as running Substitute (SubSalac Chomper is actually better than SD + 3 attacks if Chomper isn't being accompanied by rain), Spikes, and / or simply playing patiently. The problem with Genesect was its ability to scramble the opposing team with only its presence. Between RP (stupid ****ing broken set), Scarf, Band / Specs, and EB, it would be impossible for any team to feel completely safe against a healthy Genesect. Genesect is the equivalent of Gen IV Salamence; it's strong offensive presence and versatility are just unhealthy for the OU metagame. I mean, there is a valid reason behind why the majority of GOOD DW players find Genesect to be more of a pain to deal with than ST Shanderra.

And for the last goddamn time, sand is NOWHERE near as powerful as sun and rain currently are. Low level Groudon and Kyogre had been legalized in an early-Plat tourney and were, at that time, deemed to be broken. Through a single slot, one would have access to an intangible component of the game that breaks what would otherwise be tolerable threats; the biggest problem however, was how much weather control, despite how carefully both Pokemon had to be played, affected the OU metagame. This logic can be applied to this generation as well, but obviously to a lesser extent due to the massive power creep. Sand has strict limitations regarding its offensive potential; sand cannot simultaneously provide power and speed boosts to another Pokemon like current sun does. Doryuuzu was banned due to it having immediate access to crazy power, a move that can single-handedly pressure an entire playstyle and the potential doubling of its Speed stat while under a potentially permanent weather condition -- which two Pokemon, with other uses than just providing weather control, could provide. Granted, Stoutland, Sandslash, and Landorus-I are doubtlessly powerful threats, but are all far more easily manageable than a team of Drought + Venusaur / Victini / filler or the infamous, braindead Drizzle + Tornadus-T / Scarfdeo combo -- this isn't based off of my opinion, but rather how current BW2 OU is equipped to deal with said combinations. In comparison to rain, sand falters greatly in terms of offensive -- no, overall benefit. While under rain, every Water-type gets double-STAB, previously risk-reward moves become spammable, and anything weak to Fire or just reasonably bulky (with or without a certain ability) just refuses to die. I don't think that residual damage and the chance to abuse a couple of abilities (there's a pretty good chance that Lando-I, literally the only viable user of Sand Power, will want to use Sheer Force, anyway) can even hold a flame to the burning pile of crap Drizzle brings to OU. Comparing sand to sun or rain is like comparing a Threshold to an entire Halo ring -- they share some traits, but the differences between them are so vast.

Moreover, those who believe that sand will become THE dominant force in BW2 OU if sun / rain were to be banned really need to take a closer look at the current metagame. Deo-D offense and, ****, even DRAGMAG are more likely to shine brighter than sand.
 

Wobbly Headed Bob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
367
Please don't ban rain and sun. Without it, my two UU teams can never compete against OU. It's made my Golduck a force to be reckoned.
 

Wobbly Headed Bob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
367
**** that, Rain is going
No way, I need Kabutops and Golduck... and Charizard. So much style. Without them, I'm essentially playing a Care Bears game.

You people should appeal to have rain banned only in OU teams, but UU teams that carry it can use it against OU.

Even then, if that happens, I'll lose the awesome advantage I had against OU teams with Drizzle/Drought.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Premium
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
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7,245
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NC
ITT: people who don't understand a character can't just be fun to play as, they must also be fun to play against

it's basic multiplayer game design people.
Well, that makes two people that know how this stuff works.
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
With that said, he's not Uber Max level. If there was a tier under Uber and above OU, he'd probably be in there along with a few other current Ubers. The base 99 speed is honestly the most disappointing thing about him. For the OU metagame though I'm super glad he's gone because it was so mindless.
Exactly. He's at the bottom of the Troll Speed Tier, so unless he's scarfed (taking quite a bit out of his power), he's easily revenge killed and he's not coming in on common set-up pokes, like Volcarona and Gyarados. Also, Genesect wasn't doing anything to Blissey, or Evio Chansey, or some other tough guys (CB Terrakion comes to mind, maybe Conkledurr as well). I guess a 'BL3 Tier' would be perfect for him... :ohwell:

Edit: Also, if we wanna talk about "overcentralizing," well Evio Chansey is the very definition of overcentralizing. Every offensive set on every Pokemon ever now has to account for trying to OHKO or 2HKO Chansey. That poke gets to heal your team, remove their status, lay SR, spread toxic and/or paralysis, and it walls over half of the metagame. Evio Chansey became the defensive metagame, followed by Ferrothorn. It's disturbing when CB Attack+ Hydreigion can't even reliably 2HKO Chansey with Superpower.

Oh look a Project:M thread
Why don't you give us something to talk about? I'd gladly chime in. You know we both agree that Ike was hit unnecessarily hard... :p
 

iLink

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
2,075
Location
NorCal
Im actually kind of excited to try out the new charizard. Mostly because I always liked his fair but it felt so limited on when it was actually a good time to use it.

Does the reduced knockback on bthrow give it some combo utility?

:phone:
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Yes, apparently it does. It's somewhat similar to Sheik's bthrow, I believe.

And for the last goddamn time, sand is NOWHERE near as powerful as sun and rain currently are. [sblock]Low level Groudon and Kyogre had been legalized in an early-Plat tourney and were, at that time, deemed to be broken. Through a single slot, one would have access to an intangible component of the game that breaks what would otherwise be tolerable threats; the biggest problem however, was how much weather control, despite how carefully both Pokemon had to be played, affected the OU metagame. This logic can be applied to this generation as well, but obviously to a lesser extent due to the massive power creep. Sand has strict limitations regarding its offensive potential; sand cannot simultaneously provide power and speed boosts to another Pokemon like current sun does. Doryuuzu was banned due to it having immediate access to crazy power, a move that can single-handedly pressure an entire playstyle and the potential doubling of its Speed stat while under a potentially permanent weather condition -- which two Pokemon, with other uses than just providing weather control, could provide. Granted, Stoutland, Sandslash, and Landorus-I are doubtlessly powerful threats, but are all far more easily manageable than a team of Drought + Venusaur / Victini / filler or the infamous, braindead Drizzle + Tornadus-T / Scarfdeo combo -- this isn't based off of my opinion, but rather how current BW2 OU is equipped to deal with said combinations. In comparison to rain, sand falters greatly in terms of offensive -- no, overall benefit. While under rain, every Water-type gets double-STAB, previously risk-reward moves become spammable, and anything weak to Fire or just reasonably bulky (with or without a certain ability) just refuses to die. I don't think that residual damage and the chance to abuse a couple of abilities (there's a pretty good chance that Lando-I, literally the only viable user of Sand Power, will want to use Sheer Force, anyway) can even hold a flame to the burning pile of crap Drizzle brings to OU. Comparing sand to sun or rain is like comparing a Threshold to an entire Halo ring -- they share some traits, but the differences between them are so vast.

Moreover, those who believe that sand will become THE dominant force in BW2 OU if sun / rain were to be banned really need to take a closer look at the current metagame. Deo-D offense and, ****, even DRAGMAG are more likely to shine brighter than sand.[/sblock]
How can you even say that when Sand has the BEST weather starter, a second very reliable starter, and great abusers of it by the names of Terrakion and Landorus, plus all the great pokemon who don't get chipped out by it (Scizor, Genesect, Reuniclus, Ferrothorn, Forretress, etc). I would even go so far as to argue that more Gastrodons should be aiming to use Sand Force, since everyone expects Strorm Drain and Gastrodon still gets solid boosted coverage with EdgeQuake. Hippowdown, too, can also run very reliable sets with Sand Force to boost its moves.

Edit: And sun sucks simply because it is way too hard to keep sun up unless you are running SunnyTales. You might as well just say that only Rain is broken and no other weather, because there is no way Sun is that good. Committing to running Sun is like giving yourself a handicap, it feels good when you win, but there's no way that win isn't fraudulent. Victini is UU for a reason. Venusaur WAS UU for a reason as well, and it's still pretty underwhelming in OU.
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
5,595
Location
Beaumont, TX
Why don't you give us something to talk about? I'd gladly chime in. You know we both agree that Ike was hit unnecessarily hard... :p
Well I mean, I understand the idea of tweaks, and the changes wouldn't be such a big deal to me if they were planning on compensating for them some how. Like a faster bair, a more usable counter, maybe a whole new counter system would be cool. But PMBR has given no indication that they plan on doing anything but make him worse, using the hotword "tweaks".

When DF tells you your tangent has diverted the thread, you know shet has gotten bad here.
lol

The new features look sweet now 2.5 only has to come out plox?
No it can't come out yet because they aren't done nerfing Ike and they have to release the Samuses still
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
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Mar 30, 2010
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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
I just want to see if 'fair pillaring' is possible. Like, fair > fair > fair > dair on fastfallers. That would be epic....

Edit: Is Ike's Counter STILL worse than Marth's? I always wondered why he couldn't just get the same one as him but with more emphasis on returning KB?
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
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It's still slower than marth's. I can't remember frame data though
But I want something a little more usable than Ike's because if they miss you, or don't attack, you get ****ed over for the endlag. If they attack from above or below, even just slightly above or below, Ike will miss, and you'll get ****ed over for the lag there too. Very rarely is his counter even useful.
Hell, if they just did away with counter and gave him some kind of natural sword combo in it's place similar to marth or Roy's (but not the same generic moves those two share) I'd be pretty happy.
 
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