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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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standardtoaster
Tubacabra
Stay on topic.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
But what was the topic, I wonder? I think it was the legitimacy of banning the word "****" from a venue, or perhaps it was the problem of spreading racism in our community, or maybe, just maybe it was the fact that StarFox ***** us both in and out of Smash. 
On-topic: At a Melee/P:M tournament this past weekend, GuruKid and I teamed in PM doubles. We came across this chump team that started off as Ike + Sheik. They barely beat us and then we showed them next match that they were just chumps. Then they went double Fox and shined and usmashed the living daylights out of us. (>.<)
On-topic: At a Melee/P:M tournament this past weekend, GuruKid and I teamed in PM doubles. We came across this chump team that started off as Ike + Sheik. They barely beat us and then we showed them next match that they were just chumps. Then they went double Fox and shined and usmashed the living daylights out of us. (>.<)
MaxThunder
PM Support
A sword like that would hit hardest near the to, though...
actually, swords in general would do that...
tip*
living daylight sounds scary...
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well, "swords" in general do that, but I like to see Ike's weapon more as a blunt object.....
Again, the changes were for his own design balance. It doesn't MATTER if a ton of Side B Walljumps were balanced because it was one of those things that broke away from the herd of reasonable ideas and stuck to the wall lol. Being designed so that spacing doesn't matter as much, balanced or not, isn't great design. (Although keep a close eye on the tipper system because that might end up being lopsided good or bad). Side B going as far from no charge etc. And with some of these changes it will be easier to address his regular weaknesses in a fairer way. Ike with less extremeties and jank stuff, should be a funner Ike to play as and against.
Ike basically took a tree trunk and had a wizard morph it into a sword shape.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
metroid1117
Smash Master
I have 4 new Charizard matches against my friend's Ivysaur, but they're fairly old in terms of when they were recorded.
As always, please keep in mind that Demo 2.5 is still unfinished; some things are still subject to change.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
http://www.twitch.tv/baconator25/b/344518723
Doubles
Edit: Skip to 0:46:30 to see double Fox perform what most of us do not like to refer to as "****".
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
I'm offended
9Kplus1
Smash Master
You're such a spacist, Bubba
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Personally, I support Space Animal suffrage.
No bloops for oil
No bloops for oil
Thanks guys, and don't worry about the subject to change line... I live within driving distance of a PMBR member and have played 2.5. I just like to watch others play games ALOT. Better than TV
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
You can watch my terrible 2.1 stream from Tuesday if you want. No mic/webcam at the moment though.
http://www.twitch.tv/kinklink5/b/345332304
http://www.twitch.tv/kinklink5/b/345332304
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Which PMBR member do you live close to, Beorn?
Wobbly Headed Bob
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
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Everything in general does that.Well, "swords" in general do that, but I like to see Ike's weapon more as a blunt object.....
JOE!
Smash Hero
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Almost the entirety of Ike is a FOO strategy based on that analysis, lol
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Won't stop me from nairing through everything. If it does prove ineffective, Zard does have other moves that come out after frame 4 and hit from a shorter distance away, but eh. I use them for their niche utility more than anything. Nair is just faster/bigger than all of his other moves so it's most useful to me to get something else started from it.
JediKnightTemplar
Smash Lord
Yes and no. At a lower level I'll entirely agree. If you're playing against opponents who aren't very familiar with competitive play or, to a lesser extent, with Ike then he is pretty FOO. However, assuming your opponent knows how to play competitively and knows Ike's game he actually does require skill and execution to win.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
how do i approach peach as lucario
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Fair is definitely a mostly FOOS move though. Very telegraphed, though useful for like, edgeguarding/other specific situations.
Alternatively, dash dance and then dash attack.
Throw fireballs at her.
Alternatively, dash dance and then dash attack.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Lucario101
cannedbread
Smash Lord
nothing works hahaha holy **** i love this game
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I just noticed in one match I plucked like 2 bob-ombs, a mr. saturn, and 2 stitch faces.
Peachy <3
Peachy <3
OmegaMuffin
Smash Journeyman
Peach is the one character I have no idea how to play. Like I literally cannot play even somewhat decently with her.
Them white women, man. I don't understand em.
Them white women, man. I don't understand em.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Throw turnips at them.
Alternatively, become a Swede.
Alternatively, become a Swede.
Against Peach I mostly dash dance a lot. If I know there is a certain height that the peach player always likes to float at, I'll usually put auraspheres between me and her at that height.
If she throws a turnip at me and I shield it, I like to jump up and grab it as it bounces off my shield assuming she isn't close enough to hit me for trying to do it. Lucario's glide toss could be used as a decent approach.
If she throws a turnip at me and I shield it, I like to jump up and grab it as it bounces off my shield assuming she isn't close enough to hit me for trying to do it. Lucario's glide toss could be used as a decent approach.
Wobbly Headed Bob
Smash Journeyman
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So many things wrong with that video, but at least it tried.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Explain whats wrong instead of just going "lolwrong". It doesn't help get your thoughts across without anything to back it up.
Eternal Yoshi
I've covered ban wars, you know
- Joined
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- EternalYoshi
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I don't agree with the video totally, but the zerg thing made me think of Brawl MK "mains"......
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Real talk, I'm interested in what you have to say, Scythe. By all means, share.
Smooth Criminal
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I see no reason to give people flack for doing what wins them money/matches. If anything it's beneficial to the metagame as it exposes more people to something they're having a problem with and forces them to find ways to beat it.
It's related to what makes low-tiers usable for their surprise factor, since very few people have extensive matchup experience in those weird matches. Experience wins matches more than most other factors.
Wobbly Headed Bob
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
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Him saying that the equation at the beginning was wrong went against all things math. If math wasn't supposed to illustrate the point, he shouldn't have used math.
Furthermore, his case that developers to ought do the less skill more power for balance was not necessarily true to benefit the balance is not true in all situations, and there are situations where his "falsified" equation goes right. Then his claim that in order to add a 30% requirement for a 10% power reward is not unreasonable as he makes it, and it is often one of the most effective mediums for transition in skill in games. Saying that you are required to be a robot is just preposterous.
He just made a very poor illustration of how balancing works, although he started gaining momentum when speaking about the FOO stuff for a little.
Some of the examples he used were just plain wrong, such as with the noobtubes in CoD. Neither experienced or professional players avoid noobtubes because they have better options. From CoD4 to MW2, the noobtube has been BANNED competitively for being too good, its utility only increases with skill. In public matches, professionals avoid noobtubes out of honor. The noobtube has been nerfed in Blops to Blops 2 to the point that it no longer even has any utility as a FOO.
These are all easy points that anyone should be able to see (except for the CoD example since I don't expect you guys to know anything about CoD). It's kind of unnecessary
The video does bring up issues I hope people in the development of this project take into consideration, and that is that simply adding power to the characters in order to make them compete with the more skill-based top tier characters rather than facilitating skill based gameplay on those characters as well is detrimental to the game.
I think I have a couple of good suggestions for this game that are character specific. But I don't have the time to elaborate on them on the moment. I really hope they are taken into consideration though.
The video was a little contradictory because it wants you to give newer players crutches basically to ween them into the game, while not making them so good that people only use them and never explore the depth of the game. And the power representation of something being 10% better but massively harder rarely happens imo: usually something is leaps and bounds a better choice regardless of how technical it is and other inferior options don't get used. Or a move/option is slightly better without a massive technical gap between the two.
The biggest issue is making sure you have actual variety in options. You don't have to have "free cake" to get players to explore other strategies or other moves/characters IF you have a large amount to explore and they aren't crap lol. And the Zerg example isn't entirely fair becaue you could argue those players were doing good with that version/meta of the game. It kind of assumes that you could smoothly transition from race to race or strategy to strategy flawlessly, and that they didn't really learn about the game when you could say they did just fine til the nerfs kicked in. If you can be good without truly being "well rounded", that's still being good until the changes that force it.
The biggest issue is making sure you have actual variety in options. You don't have to have "free cake" to get players to explore other strategies or other moves/characters IF you have a large amount to explore and they aren't crap lol. And the Zerg example isn't entirely fair becaue you could argue those players were doing good with that version/meta of the game. It kind of assumes that you could smoothly transition from race to race or strategy to strategy flawlessly, and that they didn't really learn about the game when you could say they did just fine til the nerfs kicked in. If you can be good without truly being "well rounded", that's still being good until the changes that force it.
metroid1117
Smash Master
KO Kingpin. Though I haven't been over there in a while due to school and such.
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