Project M Social Thread

[Shadic]

And on the subject of nerfing Foxco, if you do, I say just nerf side-B or up-B priority / range somehow. It won't affect their onstage game basically at all but it will make them more gimpable.

UpB for both space animals has a mediocre hitbox, and SideB is very negatively disjointed already:

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Ivy seems pretty beast to me. The fact that she heals herself with some of her moves kind of makes up for the fact that she has to fish for kills. I think reliable kill setups will probably start popping up when 2.5 gets released. Setting up an angle to land Solar Beam doesn't seem too unreasonable.

 

[bubbaking]

She barely heals herself. It's only a couple % at a time, hardly noticeable, especially in the face of rushdown. I don't think it really has a major impact on her gameplay or performance. Even between stocks, her nB recovers health soooooo slooooowlyyyy, like 1%/sec or something. I can barely recover more than 3% safely before my opponent's back on me.

Edit: Also, those specific moves are hard to sweetspot. Well, hard isn't the right word, 'cause they're actually not. I guess situational is more like it. You won't really be connecting with these moves much I feel unless you get a grab in or during a combo, and even then, it's only a couple % per instance. But anyway, as I said, I like her as is.

#NewIvyMain

 

[Rikana]

Crew mode, ledgeteching, knock back stacking, squirrel and ivysaur...

I'll be happy of the next announcement is the release. I want to get my hands on this so bad.

 

[Ace55]

Many of the things changed in 2.5 were more design changes rather than balance changes, which are two completely different things. That's why we don't like referring to things as a "buff" or a "nerf" as buffing and nerfing are keeping things the same, but making their effectiveness either better or worse. A design change is different in that is completely reworks how something functions, and if it functions more or less effective than what it was previously is a bi-product of the reworking.

That sounds reasonable and all but all the Ike changes that I've heard about so far just seem to be blatant nerfs. Referring to this post:

From what I remember of what Cmart told me yesterday:
- 2 wall jumps, not replenished by ledge grabbing
- Blue flame on Eruption, smaller hitbox, and superarmor happens later in the move
- Tipper system: more damage/knockback near the hilt of his moves, but also more hitlag. Opposite near the tip.
- Less disjoint on Aether
- Quickdraw goes less distance when uncharged and cannot be jumped out of on the first 3 (I think) frames
-If you hit with nair when his sword is below him, the opponent is knocked horizontally, not vertically.

If any of this is wrong/private, please let me know so I can edit/remove with my apologies.

I'd just hate to have an underwhelming Ike because of the initial success he's having in 2.1.

Then again I have lot of trust in the PMBR and I know everything is subject to change at this point.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Maximum PPP Master Race.

Peachpit

#pineapple

 

[`dazrin]

http://www.twitch.tv/ProjectMdaze

Streaming 2.5 with SinisterB and Yakal now! ^ - ^

 

[bubbaking]

UpB for both space animals has a mediocre hitbox, and SideB is very negatively disjointed already:

"Mediocre hitbox"? Maybe for Falco, but I can never seem to hit Fox out of Foxfire without trading with it. As for sideB, it might be "negatively disjointed" but it moves so fast that most things clank with it anyway and leave the spacee unharmed. You have to have a really long-lasting attack, like Samus's DA, to knock them out of that.

 

[Shadic]

You can jab a spacey out of SideB with decent timing.

Firefox/Flacoflames have negligent disjoint as well.

 

[GaretHax]

Many of the things changed in 2.5 were more design changes rather than balance changes, which are two completely different things. That's why we don't like referring to things as a "buff" or a "nerf" as buffing and nerfing are keeping things the same, but making their effectiveness either better or worse. A design change is different in that is completely reworks how something functions, and if it functions more or less effective than what it was previously is a bi-product of the reworking.

"Couldnt we have waited for 2.5 mechanics to come out before deciding who is OP or not?"
This is why we have playtesters. Things like this get tested and are weighed upon in the backroom. I could say the same to you and say "Couldn't you wait until 2.5 is released before critisizing how balanced it is?"

On the topic of space animals being too "good"-- it's far too early to be hasty and make such a judgement call like that an administer balance changes right away. We don't even know for sure if they are still top tier, as things are constantly changing internally as characters get developed. Once everyone is released and there has been a good amount of time for a metagame to settle will we know for sure how space animals stack up compared to everyone else in the cast, and we will administer balance changes as necessary then. For now, we are optimizing design and how things work, so be patient with us when it comes to the topic of balance and melee top tiers. Thanks! (⌒▽⌒)

This x10,000
Also @ Bubbaking, I had a big response all typed up, but Daze just plain old said it better lol.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I'm positive that Ike will remain as a very strong character.

On sonic, while he can't do an instantaneous special/jump cancel on homing attack hit, he can still act early from it due to IASA, with added maneuverability after the hit he can followup with a variety of moves both in the air or the ground depending on the situation or character being hit.

SideB instant spinroll may be gone, but downB is still there, with tweaks to act a little more similarly to how the 2.1 sideB spinroll did.

At the same time, players will notice when they have this version in hands, that many of sonic's normals received several tweaks to work, combo or connect better.

In other words, Sonic can still spin a lot and bait and punish like how he does in 2.1 (with a different move though), however he won't be completely safe on shield. He will, with the received buffs, be allowed to also play a style which stays closer the opponent, being able to successfully outspace many characters and combo better.

The course of action will change depending on matchup, you will be able to better fight Mario once you get through his fireballs for example and still be able to bait and punish ganon as you could before.

The new sideB, Spin Maneuvers can go through the well know spin hop, and then start the multi hitting somersault once you reach the ground, you can also use somersault instantly, by pressing B, the skid attack is activated, it's a low angle attack that can kill in a similar percentage range of other sonic attacks.

Both the spin hop and somersault are jump cancellable and the somersault and skid attack are ledge cancellable.

This way, don't let videos or streams dictate your impression on the character, you will only know the full extention of the changes and how they affect Sonic's design and gameplay once you get the character in hands after the new version release.

The whole backroom argued a lot about Sonic since the beginning of this project, and we hope you guys to appreciate this character, you who play him, you who watch him play, and you, who play against him.

Thanks everyone for the support on the project.

 

[Life]

Ooh, skid attack ledge cancels? Does skid->fair work on anyone? Skid->HA? Skid-sideB-footstool-dair-shenanigans?

I might have to pick up Sonic again.

 

[DMG]

Please don't. Sonic is annoying

 

[bubbaking]

This "spin hop" and "somersault" of Spin Maneuvers, would they happen to be the same moves as his attacking sequence in Sonic Advance that ended in a somersault? Namely the sequence B > B > A?

#InquiriesOfASonicFan

 

[Magus420]

Streaming 2.5 matches here for the evening: http://www.twitch.tv/ryokoyaksa

 

[Rikana]

^
they will be right back in 30 minutes.

 

[DMG]

See people, see the things Shiek can still do?!?!?

 

[bubbaking]

Hopefully people didn't question that Sheik is still a terror. For the most part, it's just nitpicking that Sheik got changed and the spacees didn't. I see the argument on both sides and I agree with both parties. Sheik is great now, but it's not fair that she's the only one under scrutiny.

#TopTierTroubles

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, we're back up. http://www.twitch.tv/ryokoyaksa

 

[cannedbread]

can someone convince me that dins fire is good

it's seems so situational

 

[Kink-Link5]

can someone convince me that dins fire is good

it's seems so situational

I've tried air dodging out of it but it just doesn't seem to work.

Maybe I'm not being angry enough.

 

[cannedbread]

doesn't work anymore bby

angry inputs help with nothing

but seriously this move is only good for limiting options for slowpokes that don't already have any options

oh and edgeguarding

oh well at least i have nayru

sheik > nayru > farore >>>>>>>>>> dins

 

[metroid1117]

That sounds reasonable and all but all the Ike changes that I've heard about so far just seem to be blatant nerfs. Referring to this post:

I'd just hate to have an underwhelming Ike because of the initial success he's having in 2.1.

Then again I have lot of trust in the PMBR and I know everything is subject to change at this point.

Ike has gotten some buffs, but I'm not sure if I can disclose what they are. However, as with everything else in this project, please keep in mind that everything is subject to change.

 

[bubbaking]

Everything is always, always subject to change.

Spoiler

And don't you forget it.

 

[`dazrin]

Ike is still strong. Have faith in the PMBR.

Again, design =/= balance.

 

[hotdogturtle]

So it's been kind of a while since I played Project M or uploaded any stage hacks. But I'm back now and my new goal is 2 b a texture master.

Spoiler

 

[leelue]

Looks excellent

 

[bubbaking]

I'm back now and my new goal is 2 b a texture master.

Spoiler

The very best that no one ever was?

 

[drsusredfish]

0_o everything in this set is awsome. This has got to be the best I've ever seen a lucario be played.

http://www.twitch.tv/ryokoyaksa/b/343068171

 

[DMG]

I haven't seen it yet, but I don't believe that's Leffen

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I was watching that, and that Lucario play was incredibly swag. Definitely learned some stuff I'll be trying next time I play.

 

[drsusredfish]

leffen doesn't even compare. of course iti was a newer build of lucario but still magus (I assume is sexy) is a beast.

 

[`dazrin]

Dat Ryoko tho.

 

[DMG]

Now that I disagree with. The 1 new or different thing I saw was canceling on hit into AS charging/canceling that charging into whatever. I'm not saying he played bad either, he did plenty of stuff Lucario's don't have down or don't use to the fullest lol.

 

[iLink]

The very best that no one ever was?

I have to get this out because it really grinds my gears when people do this.

Its LIKE no one ever was.


With that out of the way, are there any know stages that are being changed that would require us to reapply any textures we use in 2.1?

 

[9Kplus1]

Agreed, DMG. Leffen may suck, but his Lucario is Eli-like.

 

[leelue]

Elike
10rapes

 

[ELI-mination]

Elike?

Got a new in-game tag on my hands

Go to sleep leelue

 

[GunBlaze]

Roy dittos in Melee are amazingly fun, though.

This man knows his stuff

 

[drsusredfish]

any body else want wolfs laser to go like 1.5 times the distance it does now.

edit: and the ability to do low laser and still wave land. characters ducking the laser is booty.