Project M Social Thread

[ELI-mination]

Eliking is gawdleike

Only in theory

 

[trash?]

I feel like GnW is going to a character nobody has the patience to play with, so there's going to be two good players using him and when both of them out how to actually use him well he's going to shoot straight up to top-tier. Kind of like seth from SF4 except GnW is fun to play.

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzh6PNMvIZk
Crazy good people at smashmods are working on messing about with the HUD. It's probably not going to be anything official, but still.
(I did the bad mock-ups which were only really useful for the good stock icons and damage font)

 

[DMG]

If you want to put other characters aside and look at G&W in a vacuum where stuff doesn't go wrong, maybe. G&W can't be top tier with Link, Mario, Spacies, Jiggs, Shiek, Marth, Ganon Falcon the list goes on. As of 2.1, G&W is hands down a bottom 5 character, heck maybe even bot 3 or absolute worst.


Anytime you talk about a character's potential, you have to measure how it stacks up to the rest of the cast. There is NO room for G&W to shine when you have Lucas Sonic Pit Ike Lucario Peach Bowser DK TL Link Pikachu etc also being represented and "figured out".

If he's a top tier character, then his MU spread doesn't reflect it. I'm trying to figure out who he would beat out of Spacies, Marth, Shiek, Falcon Ganon, Mario, Link, Ike, Lucario, etc. I can't find a single one. In fact there's a good chance he'd be lucky to go even with any of them. I liked G&W in Melee, but he would need a hell of a lot more fixes and changes before he became top tier. No "Azen" or low tier warrior would prove that otherwise, ever. Heck the most prominent G&W player as of now may be Eli, and I bet he could give you a laundry list of how bad the character is lol.

 

[KingBlaze777]

@DMG
It seems like you're just basing your statement on Melee GnW, not P:M GnW. Granted he has A LOT of competition for top tier, but he's had several improvements that could make him a top contender if his metagame gets developed as much as other more popular newcomers/revamped veterans (IE: Bowser)

 

[DMG]

But then what happens when people put that same amount of time into better characters? We're not even talking about a very broad High tier, but the VERY bold top tier claim. G&W would be lucky to muster himself into the top half of this game lol.


Like, the amount of time and effort that would have to be put into perfectly Dthrow tech chasing someone, ALWAYS gimping someone when they go offstage, etc would be so much better spent on a character that can actually do something. G&W is so inherently limited by his flaws as a character, that it really doesn't matter what nasty things you can do offensively. Most of it straight up pales in comparison to what other characters can do. Oh you gimped a spacie at low %, join the back of the line of characters who can do that lol. Oh you did a launching throw into an aerial, congrats! lol


Light weight, atrocious grab range, poor shield pressure and frankly poor approaching in general. None of these you can redeem unless you want to start DACUSing at people as your approach or doing crazy stuff. His edge guarding can be good depending on your opponent, his recovery is kinda meh it needs to do a little more for him. Like I'd love to be happy about his positives, but quite honestly they are basically weaker versions of what real top/high tiers get lol.

 

[leafbarrett]

But then what happens when people put that same amount of time into better characters? We're not even talking about a very broad High tier, but the VERY bold top tier claim. G&W would be lucky to muster himself into the top half of this game lol.


Like, the amount of time and effort that would have to be put into perfectly Dthrow tech chasing someone, ALWAYS gimping someone when they go offstage, etc would be so much better spent on a character that can actually do something. G&W is so inherently limited by his flaws as a character, that it really doesn't matter what nasty things you can do offensively. Most of it straight up pales in comparison to what other characters can do. Oh you gimped a spacie at low %, join the back of the line of characters who can do that lol. Oh you did a launching throw into an aerial, congrats! lol


Light weight, atrocious grab range, poor shield pressure and frankly poor approaching in general. None of these you can redeem unless you want to start DACUSing at people as your approach or doing crazy stuff. His edge guarding can be good depending on your opponent, his recovery is kinda meh it needs to do a little more for him. Like I'd love to be happy about his positives, but quite honestly they are basically weaker versions of what real top/high tiers get lol.

So then it's settled. G&W needs a significant buff. ...What, you think he's just supposed to be left as terrible?

 

[rjgbadger]

i kinda agree

although, shdb is ****

g&w also has crazy range on a lot of his moves

 

[Comeback Kid]

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzh6PNMvIZk
Crazy good people at smashmods are working on messing about with the HUD. It's probably not going to be anything official, but still.
(I did the bad mock-ups which were only really useful for the good stock icons and damage font)

I don't like the altered percent font and the the stock bubbles are a shade too dark but the custom work on separating the bubbles is a good direction to take the HUD that should be copied by PM devs.

 

[Kink-Link5]

So then it's settled. G&W needs a significant buff. ...What, you think he's just supposed to be left as terrible?

His D-throw seems to indicate things as such.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Will HUD changes be tourney legal? I can't see why they wouldn't off the top of my head but I could always be missing something.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Well, I'm sure it depends on whether or not a given HUD'll be standardized for tourney play at some point (i.e the final product of the game, for example). It'd stand to reason that the current demo tourneys should probably stick with the default HUD, but that's discretionary.

Smooth Criminal

 

[hotdogturtle]

I feel like GnW is going to a character nobody has the patience to play with, so there's going to be two good players using him and when both of them out how to actually use him well he's going to shoot straight up to top-tier.

You mean like Jigglypuff from Melee?

 

[DMG]

There's a lot I would buff or change about G&W. He is a character, with a few decent or even good attributes, stuck with a design that doesn't let him take advantage and so he becomes lackluster. His kill power and reach are solid, yet he gets held back either because of the speed of the move or because he has no reliable ways to get opponents into spots where they would eat those moves (and on a lesser note because he's not that mobile. He doesn't hunt you down during Tech Chases like Fox Falcon Shiek Marth etc). If he could do Dthrow Fsmash Ala Mario style, if his Nair came out a weeee bit quicker, etc.


His Dthrow imo should be reverted back to Melee, being able to CG and get easier guaranteed hits imo is stronger than the flooring option.

 

[Kink-Link5]

His Dthrow imo should be reverted back to Melee, being able to CG and get easier guaranteed hits imo is stronger than the flooring option.

Melee D-throw also set up tech chases of the Falcon variety when DI'd and/or against faster falling characters. The move went from being an easy-to-confirm chain grab/ combo/reaction-based tech chase to being strictly a hard read tech chase in Brawl.

 

[cannedbread]

like this if you're a beautiful, strong zelda player who don't need no mobility

 

[SpiderMad]

PLeASE put Buffer back over Stock handicap in the Wifi build

 

[DrinkingFood]

Lol no
Stop whining about buffer and learn to play like a real man
Otherwise you'll just complain even more when they fix light presses on wifi. Just get over the changes that definitely weren't meant to be that way in the first place.

 

[SpiderMad]

Light press air dodge is the best thing ever, especially while light shielding doesn't exist. I also had a wrist injury and was able to play P:M much sooner than Melee because of it. You can input more air dodges, in a comfortable motion, and in a faster response time when the trigger is only a light press away.

The "Aid assist" should be set to 2 frames not 3, out of my experience of 2 being the perfect transitional amount.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Please don't fix Brawl's double stick DI; I like my game being worse than it needs to be for no reason.

Also keep all the glitchiness that happens with landing detection, I like Link randomly jitterbugging in the air. Whenever I go back to playing Melee he transitions through his jump arc like, fluidly or something. Really offputting compared to PM.

 

[Juushichi]

GnW is just fine in 2.5 guys.

Seriously. As one of the 10 people who main and put a lot of time into this character, I can pretty much say he's good now. Not great, but good. 2.1 GnW is bad, but ok in some MU's I guess. He's not going to be a popular character no matter what though, when you can do what he tries to do with a better character.

 

[DMG]

OLD DTHROW OR GTFO

 

[Xebenkeck]

Im not to knowledgable about G&W in melee but is his uthrow useful? Would you use it in any scenario over dthrow? If not then why not make his uthrow his melee dthrow and keep the Brawl dthrow?

Or may not nessecarily have to be uthrow, is G&W fthrow in melee garbage, etc.

G&W could be made into a really tricky character if his animations for his 4 throws were made with the same juggling animation. Then against him you would not know how to DI, or whether you should try to tech if he uses dthrow. Its a dynamic that would be really unique to him.

 

[ELI-mination]

None of that stuff even matters lol. GnW just needs to not die mad early. That's his only real problem.

Step it up *****s.

#godlike

 

[cannedbread]

lol come on don't sit here and tell me his recovery isn't ****tier than a can of beans past their cabinet life

 

[ELI-mination]

Beans come in a can
Bread does not

Step it up

 

[Smooth Criminal]

gg, Eli.

Smooth Criminal

 

[GP&B]

 

[ELI-mination]

New england is wack

Law abiding citizen

 

[cannedbread]

ugh
only yurop murrika

 

[Xebenkeck]

New England? Thats the northeastern US of A. You know like Boston.......

 

[ELI-mination]

There are other states besides NY?

 

[CORY]

actually, only one. texas has slowly been eating everything else. now it's just ny and us...

 

[Life]

NY, TX, and CA are the only three states that matter, except on election day when it's suddenly PA, OH, and FL.

 

[DMG]

Im not to knowledgable about G&W in melee but is his uthrow useful? Would you use it in any scenario over dthrow? If not then why not make his uthrow his melee dthrow and keep the Brawl dthrow?

Or may not nessecarily have to be uthrow, is G&W fthrow in melee garbage, etc.

G&W could be made into a really tricky character if his animations for his 4 throws were made with the same juggling animation. Then against him you would not know how to DI, or whether you should try to tech if he uses dthrow. Its a dynamic that would be really unique to him.

A good comparison is Mario. Mario has both his Uthrow and his Dthrow. His Uthrow allows for easier hits at low %, and CG on FF's. His Dthrow gave him better options vs floaties, and easier time landing kill moves/juggling moves (also gives him another CG). If you took away Mario's Dthrow and he only had Uthrow, it would be a nerf. If he only had Dthrow and his other throw floored people, it would be a nerf.


It's the same for G&W: his Uthrow and Dthrow compliment each other very well and G&W NEEDS the guaranteed setups/situational CG's/etc instead of the flooring option. The only ways the flooring option would be better involve adding a lot of damage to the throw, or making G&W TC like Falcon/someone swift. As of now, instead of getting a guaranteed regrab or hit you are put into a TC scenario. G&W isn't meant to be great at the TC scenarios lol. Not even the DACUS change really qualifies him or signals that he's ready to become that kind of character.

None of that stuff even matters lol. GnW just needs to not die mad early. That's his only real problem.

Step it up *****s.

#godlike

That's kinda hard. You're playing a super light weight without an amazing recovery, combo breaker, and overall average to supbar defensive game when dealing with pressure. That's slightly easier than telling Bowser not to get grabbed vs Marth.

New england is wack

Law abiding citizen

CITIZEN KANE!

 

[Comeback Kid]

I have a question about crew I've heard others wonder and I wanted a dev to comment if possible.

So when crew is enabled it seems like stock control is off and you just start the next match with whatever stock you had left without being able to confirm.

But wouldn't it be better if crew had stock control on so you could see what stock you had left between matches and even change stock values if you needed to?

Why limit crew so much when the options are there? Seems like it would be more convenient to enable stock control and made crew as functional as possible.

 

[ELI-mination]

Well it's not my fault people are wack with GnW
Let's lower the passing grade!

Rough-around-the-edges Criminal

 

[Smooth Criminal]

What have I done

Smooth Criminal

 

[JOE!]

What -is- the balance goal here anyways?

 

[Oro?!]

NY, TX, and CA are the only three states that matter, except on election day when it's suddenly PA, OH, and FL.

Chicago is an island oasis in a sea of despair...

 

[Revven]

I have a question about crew I've heard others wonder and I wanted a dev to comment if possible.

So when crew is enabled it seems like stock control is off and you just start the next match with whatever stock you had left without being able to confirm.

But wouldn't it be better if crew had stock control on so you could see what stock you had left between matches and even change stock values if you needed to?

Why limit crew so much when the options are there? Seems like it would be more convenient to enable stock control and made crew as functional as possible.

When Crew Mode is enabled, the stars below your character indicate how many stocks you have going into the next match.

Stock Control cannot be on because Crew Mode takes over the old "Auto" handicap slot. Stock Control is basically turning on the old "On" for handicap, hence why you can you know, "control" the stocks.

Also, IMO, people talking about G&W Dthrow need to wait for 2.5, seriously.