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Tubacabra
Yes muhti you put it where your texture hacks normally go.
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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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GaretHax
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 464
Just because someone is on the top of the tierlist doesn't mean they are some kind of godless killing machine. Comparing meta-knights matchup spread to fox or falcos makes the latter two look like garbage "top" tiers. I really just can't understand why anyone would want to make the two most difficult to play characters less rewarding. Especially when they had legitimate competition from the rest of the cast even at top level play. With the buffs and specific anti-spacie tools that just about every character in PM has been loaded up with (don't much care for specific anti-spacie stuff I always thought just making the rest of the cast better at what they do would suffice) a nerf just seems silly. Considering spacie weaknesses were already primarily inherent to the character itself rather than any particular opponent. Really the best way to deal with spacies is learn how to play against them.
Since when was Falco one of the hardest characters to use?
Also, I'm not sure if you're implying otherwise, but, need for technical skill doesn't make a character inherently difficult to play efficiently. They have many unique tools that make gameplay look very different from fighting the rest of the cast, and some of them arguably reduce depth and put a tight bottleneck on realistic options.
GaretHax
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 464
Honestly I agree about Falco, I think he is the best human-ly playable character in smash. Technicality is a barrier, though I'm certainly not saying that the risk-reward for playing a technical character isn't skewed. But I personally feel that taking the path of most resistance should be rewarding in some way, especially when matchups against spacie players, in my opinion, heavily rely on matchup knowledge. Its kind of cool to have two characters who bend or break the rules a little and who can have some of the same rules broken and used against them. They are combo-chain-anything-grab bait, really they are weak to being hit or making mistakes (baited, forced, or otherwise) and I think that is a brilliant weakness and a fine trade for above-average option coverage, though one that shouldn't have too many instances. And I suppose you could argue they reduce depth, however I think they add far more than they take away. Also, unless my memory fails me, I don't see a pattern of spacie domination in PM tournaments and certainly nothing that would merit a nerf.
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
Okay, perhaps I worded my statements poorly, but this is exactly the conversation I wanted to strike up by bringing my points up. ^_^
Comeback Kid
Smash Champion
Balance and spacie discussions happen so often in this thread you just have to wait a day or two and jump into one when it happens.
There is really nothing new that can be said on the subject until 2.5 drops.
There is really nothing new that can be said on the subject until 2.5 drops.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Just to clarify, my beef was just with how the "melee pantheon" is being kept in place while the general balance goal seems to be just under it.
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
Ike, I think.I actually watched the stream and I couldn't tell who it was. I'm very confused.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
im sure they'll be nerfing fox and falco in the future...Just to clarify, my beef was just with how the "melee pantheon" is being kept in place while the general balance goal seems to be just under it.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Pit and Peach got quite a few nice additions that bring them to just about Fox and Falco's level. Mario to a lesser extent, and Sheik is still Sheik- just, without the threatening part.Just to clarify, my beef was just with how the "melee pantheon" is being kept in place while the general balance goal seems to be just under it.
Peachpit2016
JesusSmashesPuffs
Smash Cadet
From what I remember of what Cmart told me yesterday:
- 2 wall jumps, not replenished by ledge grabbing
- Blue flame on Eruption, smaller hitbox, and superarmor happens later in the move
- Tipper system: more damage/knockback near the hilt of his moves, but also more hitlag. Opposite near the tip.
- Less disjoint on Aether
- Quickdraw goes less distance when uncharged and cannot be jumped out of on the first 3 (I think) frames
-If you hit with nair when his sword is below him, the opponent is knocked horizontally, not vertically.
If any of this is wrong/private, please let me know so I can edit/remove with my apologies.
- 2 wall jumps, not replenished by ledge grabbing
- Blue flame on Eruption, smaller hitbox, and superarmor happens later in the move
- Tipper system: more damage/knockback near the hilt of his moves, but also more hitlag. Opposite near the tip.
- Less disjoint on Aether
- Quickdraw goes less distance when uncharged and cannot be jumped out of on the first 3 (I think) frames
-If you hit with nair when his sword is below him, the opponent is knocked horizontally, not vertically.
If any of this is wrong/private, please let me know so I can edit/remove with my apologies.
GaretHax
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2009
- Messages
- 464
stingers
Smash Obsessed
lol well Im sure seeing those characters next to your name.
but you cant be so selfish. you have to realize fox and falco are...a step above the rest. they can still retain their heavy pressure games, just toned down a little bit. noones saying to neuter them, just to bring them down from S to A lol.
but you cant be so selfish. you have to realize fox and falco are...a step above the rest. they can still retain their heavy pressure games, just toned down a little bit. noones saying to neuter them, just to bring them down from S to A lol.
jalued
Smash Lord
the only real changes I would consider are making fox's upB PAL distance and possibly increasing the end lag of fox/falco's upB
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
Like Stingers said, we're not expecting Fox/Falco to be neutered, just brought back to even with the rest of the cast. Nor are we expecting it to be done now, or any time soon. Once the entire cast is done and the metagame solidifies, then look into it.
Thanks and wow, on paper these changes look like (mostly) medium/large nerfs.
I'm sure it'll probably be fine in game though... Sorta balancing ish I guess.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Does the PMBR release a sort of "changelist" between the iterations?
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
I'm watching JC's stream recording and I'm not a big fan of ike but darn it that blue flame on his new neutral b is sexy.
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
This officially makes Ike's fire powers canon. This also gives him his own representing color.
jalued
Smash Lord
link plz?.........
JOE!
Smash Hero
Pretty much this. It's just weird to keep them a step above (and in turn just giving anti-spacie tools to everything, hurting wolf unfairly) when the goal is to have everyone at the same level.
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
Dragonrage
Smash Apprentice
Was there a reason for the blue flames? Or is it just because it looks cooler?
If I'm not mistaken Ike is the Hero of Blue Flames. Haven't played his games so I'm not sure where that title comes from.
Though in regards to that title him having blue fire makes sense.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
I'll be streaming a PM side tournament at a BC Brawl Monthly. The PM event will start around 2:30-3:00PM PST. I'll also be streaming some 2.5 later after the tournament is over too 
Stream is up now: (But it'll be Brawl for now.. so yeah lol) http://Twitch.tv/projectmdaze/new
Stream is up now: (But it'll be Brawl for now.. so yeah lol) http://Twitch.tv/projectmdaze/new
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Can a PMBRoomer confirm the changes to QuickDraw? And then explain why they were necessary, or at least more desirable? And then provide info on the buffs he must have gotten to compensate for the blatant nerfs that make these tweaks instead of just obvious pandering to outcries of brokenness? Like the only thing here that seems to not be an outright nerf is the tipper system, but I haven't tried it yet and it may very well turn out to be just that...
FireBall Stars
Smash Ace
Ike debuted on Fire Emblem Path of Radiance (Path of the Blue Flame in japan), the game which he became the hero of the blue flames, a reference of how connected the war was to the fire emblem medallion, which radiates chaos energy in the form of blue flames.
Later on Radiant Dawn, Ike wields the essence of a goddess, portrayed by blue flames surrounding Ike's body and sword.
Later on Radiant Dawn, Ike wields the essence of a goddess, portrayed by blue flames surrounding Ike's body and sword.
Well the walljump one is obvious, and I think the Side B change was directed at his tech chasing and quicker QD approaching. They didn't want people to cover so much ground with the bonus ability to cancel it, by simply tapping Side B and covering the ground near instantly. Charging it to cover that much distance is a fair trade off because you are stationary for longer and charging gives the opponent more time to figure out a response. How much shorter it goes might not impact his TC game much if he can still normally cover the ground by doing dash attack or SH Fair.
Revven
FrankerZ
BALH.
10chars
10chars
The only thing that I'm not sure about is the Nair change. How low roughly does the sword have to be, and how strong/weak is this hit gonna be compared to the rest of Nair?
^^^
Ike can still walljump out of Side B. You want a pandering change, they would have taken it out completely. Probably would have removed the ability to jump out of QD, to Upb if QD hits someone offstage, etc. Those things would be worth getting up into arms over lol.
^^^
Ike can still walljump out of Side B. You want a pandering change, they would have taken it out completely. Probably would have removed the ability to jump out of QD, to Upb if QD hits someone offstage, etc. Those things would be worth getting up into arms over lol.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
Stream is up now on my other channel: http://twitch.tv/projectmdaze/new
...For some reason, my regular channel isn't working. :<
...For some reason, my regular channel isn't working. :<
GunBlaze
Smash Lord
So all changes are official, huh? Guess I'll have to try them when they come out.
+1 for Hero of the Blue Flame reference
Ike's QD definitely needed a distance nerf.
I think most of the other listed changes are not really significant but pretty unnecessary, though the tipper system sounds interesting. I'll wait to play a completed build first.
I think most of the other listed changes are not really significant but pretty unnecessary, though the tipper system sounds interesting. I'll wait to play a completed build first.
Revven
FrankerZ
I didn't say any of the changes were official. Whatever's been changed is not final, just like everything else. Still trying stuff out, things may get thrown out, things might not.
rjgbadger
Banned via Warnings
i dont understand nerfing any melee character
imo melee top 8 deserves to be literally exactly like melee
all other characters should get buffs, but there also should be some characters that just straight get beaten by spacies
also wolf should definitely be on fox/falcos level. purposely designing a spacie to not be as good as the other spacies is dumb imo, i dont even care that its canon
imo melee top 8 deserves to be literally exactly like melee
all other characters should get buffs, but there also should be some characters that just straight get beaten by spacies
also wolf should definitely be on fox/falcos level. purposely designing a spacie to not be as good as the other spacies is dumb imo, i dont even care that its canon
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