Project M Social Thread

[Kati]

iirc wolf is the best character in assault. No one is designing him to be intentionally worse... and canon only applies to style/visuals (such as Ike's new blue flames). The PMBR is doing a great job, and making those kind of claims just shows how far this balance discussion has gone for the worse.

lol at this brawl tourny. As if it weren't slow enough, a third of the matches I've seen reset.

 

[DMG]

Well to be fair they were trying to keep his Brawl flavor as well. Making him as good as Fox and Falco would probably entail changes to his moveset from Brawl and frankly would be a less interesting character imo (only change I think he should have in that vein, is a sex kick Nair instead of the fruit loop he does now)

 

[GunBlaze]

fruit loop

 

[DMG]

Exactly

That's his Nair

 

[rjgbadger]

i'm definitely not saying the PMBR is doing poorly because they aren't

i am however saying wolf seems to be, and is purposely a worse character than the other spacies

and iirc the star fox team never loses to the star wolf team

he deserves a sex kick definitely, a quicker bair, and a dair that doesn't give spacies a knockdown at 0-30ish, similar to falco

and fox and falco should NOT be able to grab the edge after an illusion mistake (aka the derp)

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Wolf just didn't get very many changes from his brawl iteration. The only things I really noticed were his usmash being changed, and his blaster moves waaaaay slower, despite the fact that wolf already had the slowest blaster.

Truthfully, he's the only character I play in brawl that I haven't played much in PM. I'd probably have gotten to him more if my other characters weren't lucario and ike.

 

[Rikana]

Fox and falco are able to grab the ledge when you sideB in the air and off the stage because they're at the peak of the sideB. If you were too high up, a ledge grab box wouldn't appear in time for you to reverse grab the ledge. Reverse grab box is a universal code. All characters can reverse ledge grab at the peak of their recovery move when facing away from the stage.

 

[Muhti]

Have you guys notice improvements (In Regular Brawl) after using Project M for awhile?

 

[MaxThunder]

Ike with blue fire sounds cool=)...

Zard gonna get better-looking dash attack yet?..

 

[Kati]

Did 2.1 revert back to vanilla brawl's battlefield? I.E wider dimensions?

 

[Warhawk]

Spacies currently don't seem so much above the cast to warrant a nerf, especially without most of the cast being finished to begin with and more testing to see if strategies might arise from the new abilities given to characters to make the spacies not actually as good as everyone is complaining about (which isn't even broken level anyways). See how things pan out before you start taking away abilities that will potentially alienate melee spacie players from playing project M (though of the nerfs, the up-b one is a good one to consider in the future if the spacies are still well and above the whole cast).

 

[drsusredfish]

does snake C4 transfer between players again?

watch from about 00:59:34. snake tries to sticky ike it sounded like it worked, and marth looks too far away to be stikied by accident. then marth grabs ike and up throws him. Snake then blows the C4 but it blows up marth. Did it transfer?

http://www.twitch.tv/jcaesar/b/342478235

 

[bubbaking]

Okay, so. I know this is completely random, but I actually want to see a stream of the expert players here taking on Cruel Brawl in P:M. Eli, Leelue, Bubba... um... ****, I don't know any other names. You know who you guys are.

I'm honored.

ALSO
for what it's worth
Eli, you just got put in the same category as Bubbaking. Discuss

Ignoring the color, I thought this picture was pretty epic.

What -is- the balance goal here anyways?

To bring everyone to the spacees' level.

my understanding (FOREWARNING: I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH PMBR) is that, they originally wanted everyone to be fox/falco level, then realized that you would have to make an entire cast of ridonculous characters for that. the new focus is to aim for melee marth/falcon/peach/dorf levels.

Or to do that and leave the spacees above everyone else.

 

[standardtoaster]

Did 2.1 revert back to vanilla brawl's battlefield? I.E wider dimensions?

No, it matches melee battlefield dimensions.

 

[bubbaking]

It seems to me that, although the stages are indeed Melee dimensions, they still seem smaller because of larger character models. Is that the case?

 

[leelue]

Whos larger besides bowser

Also, can we just not count Elis wins so my second place finishes look better?

 

[bubbaking]

I feel like all of the P:M character models are slightly larger than their respective Melee models. I don't have any facts or anything, this is just my opinion from what I've observed. Also, I asked Vanguard about it in person, and I think he corroborated my suspicions.

 

[standardtoaster]

Probably feels that way because of the camera, bubba.

 

[bubbaking]

Ah, that would make sense...

 

[UltiMario]

IIRC Brawl in general had larger characters, but they've been crushed down to Melee size.

 

[Shadow Huan]

except bowser

who's huge.

so life and i played bowser vs marth yesterday and we are both of the opinion that... well...

marth wins, easily a 60-40 MU in marth's favor.

bowser can win it, but definantly has to work hard for it (i think i won 3 of the 6 or 7 matches we played)

at least vs ike bowser can look for trades (which are in his favor until mid %s)

also LOL at fox not being "too good"... he is. the skill level needed for fox to be unstoppable is just high as heck

 

[DMG]

Duh. Grab Bowser or launch him as Marth, win MU basically.

 

[ELI-mination]

i dont understand nerfing any melee character

imo melee top 8 deserves to be literally exactly like melee

all other characters should get buffs, but there also should be some characters that just straight get beaten by spacies

also wolf should definitely be on fox/falcos level. purposely designing a spacie to not be as good as the other spacies is dumb imo, i dont even care that its canon

This is a really dumb post.

 

[Kink-Link5]

This is a really dumb post.

God forbid characters be made to be good.

Nerfing Ike's side B distance I guess I could understand; making him unable to jump out of it for 3 frames or whatever doesn't really do that, and it doesn't make him a more interesting or better designed character either.

Like, if it had faster warmup in return for less distance covered, it would make for a more dynamic move without the "scariness" that seems to be such a problem for some people.

Ahdunnuh, it just seems really dumb to weaken Ike's neutral game while keeping the stuff that makes him polarizing and obnoxious. Hopefully the nerfs mentioned were just hearsay and not authentic because making the character even more extreme is a horrible way to address his issues.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Duh. Grab Bowser or launch him as Marth, win MU basically.

it's like falcon vs ganon in melee, except it feels worse lol

oh well, everyone's gotta have a bad MU or two

 

[DrinkingFood]

That three frame empty travel time on QD was the only real problem I have for sure about the Ike changes (except for the wall jump limit, but apparently me being obnoxious about it isn't changing it regardless of how stupid and unnecessary it is). If it just traveled less distance when uncharged it wouldn't be a big deal. Hell, I'd find other uses for it if that were the case, including edge cancels that weren't possible before. But the 3 frames thing just seems like it'll make it impossible to continue combos when the opponent is out of SH reach but just in reach of Insta-JC'd QD. Especially stuff like f-throw->bair that works on a lot of characters. And suddenly quick QDWDs are gonna be so much slower, probably borderline useless. That was like, my favorite thing to do with him

 

[Strong Badam]

The 3-frame wait is currently in testing and the change hopes to address a few issues:

1. Noncommittal nature of 2.1 QD. Jump-Cancelable on Frame 1 means that you're only committed to movement during your jumpsquat frames. Adding 3 is mostly negligible, but important in a game as fast as this one that is also consequently based largely on positioning.
2. Follows precedent of previous JC-able Grounded moves such as Shine that force a short time of wait before being able to jump.

It is not final and as always with Project M Developmental Builds, is subject to change.

 

[bubbaking]

This is a really dumb post.

Why isn't there a smiley for nodding heads?

2. Follows precedent of previous JC-able Grounded moves such as Shine that force a short time of wait befoer being able to jump.

But, but.................the shine also gives a frame of invincibility. You can't possibly hope to compare two moves as different as the shine and QD. And besides, the shine is on characters with ridiculous aerials, really good other specials, and great character traits such as speed, kill power, and whatnot. You can't really follow "precedents" when the 'preceding move' is on a character with a whole different kit than the one had by a char with the 'preceded move'.

 

[Kink-Link5]

That three frame empty travel time on QD was the only real problem I have for sure about the Ike changes (except for the wall jump limit, but apparently me being obnoxious about it isn't changing it regardless of how stupid and unnecessary it is). If it just traveled less distance when uncharged it wouldn't be a big deal. Hell, I'd find other uses for it if that were the case, including edge cancels that weren't possible before. But the 3 frames thing just seems like it'll make it impossible to continue combos when the opponent is out of SH reach but just in reach of Insta-JC'd QD.

Relax Food; there's no confirmation of the change, and it probably isn't real because I mean come on, I have enough faith that the PMBR wouldn't make a change that dumb.

 

[DrinkingFood]

QD also has a start up of nine frames and no hitbox at that time. QD is WAY committal compared to the shine. In a game as fast as this, 9 frames is gigantic... The problem isn't the move for ****s sake... It's the people that aren't playing right against Ike, and giving him too much room to move around...

@Kink
But... But
:'(

EDIT: wouldn't it make more sense to add those frames to the move's forced startup
I mean if you guys are hell bent on nerfing Ike and particularly QD
That way it doesn't feel like some artificial barrier against jumping but just a slightly slower move
Also can't you input jumps during the three frame window immediately after shine and still have it occur ASAP after the window (kind of like a buffer)? Because no matter how fast I pressed the two buttons together, I've never not had a shine jump cancel unless I straight up missed the button. And I mean using the thumb to press the two simultaneously, and it still works.
Also Bubba I wanted to apologize for so vehemently insisting a little while ago on smash mods upon an instantly-available cancel for the shine, because it turns out its not that way. I had gotten that idea from a variety of observations which turned out to be inconsistent. Excuses aside, I was wrong, so I though I'd let you know that for once you were right.

 

[bubbaking]

Fox has as much mobility as a QDing Ike just by running around. This just doesn't make sense to me....

Why can't some PP/Mango/Umbreon/Javi level player just pick up a P:M spacee already so we can all see how darn broken these spacees are? We don't need changes being handed out left and right when they're being left exactly the same.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Lol at people who think Fox is the best character in this game

 

[DMG]

Yeah that's a real funny thought, looks like only Lucario really challenges him for that spot

Not like Fox got nerfed into Captain Falcon territory and it's flying over everyone's head

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Yeah that's a real funny thought, looks like only Lucario really challenges him for that spot

People seem to forget that he's still easy as hell to combo to death and gimp, also he's light.

 

[stingers]

except bowser

who's huge.

so life and i played bowser vs marth yesterday and we are both of the opinion that... well...

marth wins, easily a 60-40 MU in marth's favor.

bowser can win it, but definantly has to work hard for it (i think i won 3 of the 6 or 7 matches we played)

at least vs ike bowser can look for trades (which are in his favor until mid %s)

also LOL at fox not being "too good"... he is. the skill level needed for fox to be unstoppable is just high as heck

I did pretty good against Dr PP with Bowser. It's not a hopeless MU.
Bowser can beat out grab with up b, and beat out marths aerials with fair. You just have to pick the right time to do each one. Baiting out one jump or grab properly can change the tide of the match instantly since bowser hits so hard

 

[DMG]

He had all of those flaws in Melee, what kind of argument is that? I expect a character argument like Ike Lucario etc passed him up because of xyz.

 

[leelue]

Too busy playing fun characters

 

[DrinkingFood]

Lucario is easy to gimp? Strange, I remember him having a long recovery and a super easy sweetspot.

 

[DMG]

I hope he was talking about Fox. After all he didn't bring up Lucario, I did.

Leelue what fun characters would those be, Sonic and Pit?

WILL YOU BE THE NEXT... GURUKID?!?!?!

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh right he could have been talking about either
Makes more sense for fox tho